Guardian: "Musicians, stop collaborating please!"

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Postby leoapp » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:28 am

Musicians, stop collaborating please!

Jay-Z and Alicia Keys? Inspired. JLS and Dev? Pitbull and whoever? Just soulless, corporate collaborations that are ruining the charts

In one small way, Madonna's current single, Give Me All Your Luvin', marks the end of an era. It's the last time for the foreseeable future that Nicki Minaj, who guest-raps on it, intends to collaborate with another artist. "I'm done with the collabs," she said last year. "No more collabs for the next two years."

If anyone is entitled to call it a day on the "collab" front, it's Minaj – Give Me All Your Luvin' is the 40th she's appeared on (including 11 in 2011 alone). If only her attitude were shared by other serial collaborators. Right now, on a pop record near you, you'll almost certainly encounter one of the following doing a little turn on someone else's song: Pitbull, Rihanna, Chris Brown, Akon, Lil' Wayne, Bruno Mars – and the list goes on. In the last couple of years, there's hardly been a successful chart act who hasn't turned up as a "featured artist" on another successful chart act's single.

It goes like this: Big Star A – Madonna, let's say – is recording a single. It's destined to sell well because Madonna is still a huge brand. But how many more people would listen to and download it if she invited Big Stars B and C – Minaj and MIA – to add guest verses? Everyone benefits: Madonna gets the kudos of working with a couple of hip names, while Minaj and MIA get the kudos of working with Madonna, and all three reach not just their own fanbases but those of the other two as well.

Give Me All Your Luvin' debuted in America at No 13 – Madonna's highest position since 2008. Her appearance at the Super Bowl, where MIA flashed her middle finger at the camera, helped, of course: a case of a collaboration that will go down as one of pop's more memorable.

More often, though, A-list hookups aren't landmark events. How can they be, when they've become mandatory for the generic pop/urban acts who've dominated the charts for the past half-decade? There are half a dozen in every week – and for every one that shows an actual affinity between the acts – such as Drake and Rihanna's Take Care – there are a dozen Pitbull/Chris Browns, who exhibit all the passion of two CEOs signing a corporate merger. Even Brit acts such as JLS are traipsing on to the bandwagon; their Brit-nominated outing with American singer Dev is a fine example of two acts being put together for the greater good of their record labels.

Obviously, some collaborations have been inspired matches: Jay-Z and Alicia Keys brought different but equally stirring things to Empire State of Mind; ditto Katy Perry and Snoop Dogg on California Gurls. Christina Aguilera's contribution to Maroon 5's Moves Like Jagger blasted an already euphoric song into the ionosphere, and Lady Gaga and Beyoncé made Telephone an irresistible détente between two alpha females.

More often, though, collaborations are soulless things whose ubiquity is changing the tenor of the chart. The more successful they are, the more get released, and if you've been thinking pop has been a depressing place for the last few years because it's stuffed with schlock-merchants such as Bruno Mars, it's even worse when it's Lil' Wayne featuring Bruno Mars.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicbl ... sfeed=true

Interesting article, what do you think? :wink:
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Postby pcdm3 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:32 am

I'd say it's good for an artist to collaborate just to explore new horizons and new sounds.

But most of the collaborations are just rubbish, generic and basic like every single song Pitbull's in, every Enrique Iglesias's song since "I Like It"..

They all sound the freaking same!! :-?
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Postby Jesper » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:59 am

I think the thing is, is that most collabo's don't happen in the studio together anymore, but just because of an label head wanting a feature, an artist wants an feature, an artist randomly puts his/her vocals on a track and ends up being the final version etc.

I think if artists would get together in the studio, to write together, and follow the whole process together that some collabo's would turn out much and much better.

And yeah "hype collabo's" like Pitbull seems always to be hot, if there is an rapper or "hook singer" that magically serves a lot of hits, than everyone wants to provide from it.

And I guess another reason is that almost everybody works with the same producers and people, Artst A works with RedOne and ends up with an pitbull feature, Artist B works with Timbaland and ends up with Keri Hilson on the hook. I hope you get what I mean.
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Postby cidermaster » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:57 am

I think the state of the pop charts in the last 3 years is by far the worst ever,its about total commercial power nowadays...............
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Postby Benjamin » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:05 am

Bull! The Guardian.. please. In music there have always been collaborations. That will never change. To say Madonna's 'Give Me All Your Luvin' marks the end of an era is a stupid thing to say. Also, they've taken Nicki's quote out of context. It has nothing to do with the Madonna collaboration.
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Postby johnnyboy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:07 am

I don't like all those collaborations. But I think the issue is the nature of the genre - "urban". They just don't have good songs/singers. I like music from different genres, pop, rock,easy listening, reggae. But this rnb nonsense has no merit, IMO.
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Postby randomness » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:34 pm

This is just one of the reasons the charts are in such a terrible state right now.
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Postby aaliyahman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:56 pm

I agree with the article. It isn't saying that collaborations are wrong at all. It is basically saying that there are a whole group of artists who rely on or use the collaboration ONLY to get that hit or to further it. I love Nicki but it is horrendous how many collaborations she has been on. Some collaborations are inspired and are actual true attempts at artists working together to create something new.

It is slightly different for a rapper as they do add a different dynamic at times but sometimes that is over kill. I mean Lil Wayne and Nicki have been seen far too much. Rihanna, Pitbull too. It ruins the surprise and genuine wow it could have.
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Postby aaliyahman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:58 pm

johnnyboy wrote:I don't like all those collaborations. But I think the issue is the nature of the genre - "urban". They just don't have good songs/singers. I like music from different genres, pop, rock,easy listening, reggae. But this rnb nonsense has no merit, IMO.
No it is not the nature of the genre 'urban' most of these collaborations are firmly pop. Urban music having no good singers is again, ridiculous.
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Postby diamondtooth » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:01 pm

I like when artists collaborate as a duet. And both artists feature throughout the song.

But I am getting so bored of songs 'featuring' a rapper for one verse near the end of the song.
E.g. The Saturdays ft. Flo-Rida is a bit pointless :roll:
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Postby theArmy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:08 pm

I just can ''+1'' at the Guardian article and whoever said the last collabos are totally generic and rubbish....

if they can make good work/songs/albums alone, without features, then they should stop...Madonna's GMAYL is such a piece of sh*t and one of the baddest songs I've heard and a totally failed lead single for Madonna which next album is going to flop HARD....#myopinion
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Postby Timmy94 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:32 pm

Decades ago, collaboratings were highlights and when you heard that a popular artist is planning a duet, this really had to mean something.
Island in the stream, ebony and ivory, All For Love or I'll Be Missing You were huge hits and actually stood for something...

I doubt that all those Pitbull songs will reach this.
There are even artists whos majority of the discography consists of features...
It seems like people can't release a song without allowing Lil Wayne to put a rap verse on it.
Or Bruno Mars: Once a great and talented singer but he starts sucking after all those Lighters, Mirrors and Young and Frees :roll: ...

Even Madonna rarely did duets in her whole career and now it's already her 2nd consecutive lead single with people supporting her...
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Postby Maneater » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:42 pm

Collabs used to get me so excited, I remember music channels constantly showing teasers for Beyoncé and Shakira's 'Beautiful Liar'. I just thought it was going to be so epic, lol. :D

Nowadays whenever I see a 'feat. Nick Minaj' or 'feat. Rihanna' I feel ill.
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Postby danbarj » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:23 pm

I'm in the middle. I feel some collabs are just wack and have no musical aspiration. Any song that Rihanna's done with Nicki is a good example lol.

But then, there are those collabs that are usually made in heaven:

Bey and Jay x50 :lol:
Rih and Jay x10
Rih and Drake x2
Maroon & Xtina

Rappers are an exception as the whole concept of the collab is usually different, so Wayne and others get passes. Nicki, not so much, because she tries to be both pop star and rapper.

I think Bey and Alicia's collab fell flat, but Alicia and Usher on MB was epic. I think Bey and Jay can't do any wrong! It just depends on the chemistry. I don't care if they want a hit or not... they all do. But is the chemistry there. Is the song worth something?
"Take A Bow"... Rihanna's ONLY ballad to go #1 on the Hot 100 (also topped the R&B Chart)... Great deed for her most epic ballad!!!
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Postby GetBack » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:50 pm

I think it's just a cycle. Remember in the late 1990s to the early 2000s, there were so many "Rapper" featuring "Female/Male Singer" songs and vice-versa that topped the dominated the Hot 100 charts? It's pretty much the same thing now, but with more and different power players. :)
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Postby atbw13 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:58 pm

theArmy wrote:I just can ''+1'' at the Guardian article and whoever said the last collabos are totally generic and rubbish....

if they can make good work/songs/albums alone, without features, then they should stop...Madonna's GMAYL is such a piece of sh*t and one of the baddest songs I've heard and a totally failed lead single for Madonna which next album is going to flop HARD....#myopinion
You say her next album "is going to flop HARD" based on what? Your wish?
You´re clearly forgeting the #1 in 50 + countries based on pre orders alone ...
Please, don´t make me laugh ...
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Postby Timmy94 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:03 pm

Hard Candy also topped the charts in many countries but its chart performance was rather mediocre and so ended as her second worst selling studio album...
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Postby jpguy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:28 pm

I'm fine with collabs, I'm just sick of pitbull!
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Postby theArmy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:33 pm

atbw13 wrote:
theArmy wrote:I just can ''+1'' at the Guardian article and whoever said the last collabos are totally generic and rubbish....

if they can make good work/songs/albums alone, without features, then they should stop...Madonna's GMAYL is such a piece of sh*t and one of the baddest songs I've heard and a totally failed lead single for Madonna which next album is going to flop HARD....#myopinion
You say her next album "is going to flop HARD" based on what? Your wish?
You´re clearly forgeting the #1 in 50 + countries based on pre orders alone ...
Please, don´t make me laugh ...
no, but if the the album is bad, then why not? I'm very happy when bad albums do charts wise bad too :) let's be honest, everybody wants that

if GGW won't smash, MDNA is going nowhere....but this is not the MDNA topic, so please stop :)
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Postby Wmosi » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 pm

Timmy94 wrote:Or Bruno Mars: Once a great and talented singer but he starts sucking after all those Lighters, Mirrors and Young and Frees :roll: ...
LMAO.
Mirror flopped so no one saw/heard/cares about it.
He wasn't in the Young, Wild & Free video either, and his vocals were filtered out of the radio version.

Go to bed, Timmy.
Photoshoot fresh... I'm about to call the paparazzi on myself.
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Postby Timmy94 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:50 pm

Mirror couldn't have flopped because it wasn't even released in a lot of places.
And the radio version includes Bruno Mars very well - it's rather that a lot of the rap parts are cut out...

What does it have to do with the video? It's the music I was referring to...

I'll go to bed later, but thanks for being so kind to remember me of doing so :wink: .
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Postby leoapp » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:32 pm

I think a real collaboration must have chemistry, example: When You Believe, One Sweet Day, Nobody Wants To Be Lonely, Dilemma, Crazy In Love, etc

But today, we can just make a 'collaboration' just by mixing 2 different parts from 2 different artists. No chemistry at all.
Mariah...Xtina...Britney...
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Postby danbarj » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:31 pm

leoapp wrote:I think a real collaboration must have chemistry ....
"Take A Bow"... Rihanna's ONLY ballad to go #1 on the Hot 100 (also topped the R&B Chart)... Great deed for her most epic ballad!!!
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Postby menime123 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:13 am

I know that this isn't what the article was pointing out. But the fact that Madonna is now having people 'feature' on her music after working almost exclusively alone for 30 years is a bit sad. It's her 2nd single in a row to feature an additional artist. I don't count 4 Minutes as that was a genuine duet, and JT isn't listed as a featured artist (though Timbo is, but he doesn't count).

That said, Michael Jackson loved a good collaboration - all of his lead singles were duets/featuring songs aside from DSTYGE. And even in the early 90s he had some rapper feature - rather pointlessly - on Black or White and Jam.

Personally I HATE songs featuring other artists, because I love to see music performed live - and having 1 of the artists performing the song alone always feels a bit like Abba reuniting and performing without the blonde one. It isn't right, ad it's stupid when someone like JLO or Beyonce just stands and dances whilst their collaborator is coming out of the speakers via backing track.
If you're going to Stan over someone, it might as well be the best: MADONNA - giving you hit after hit for 30 years, so that no one else has to.
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Postby NothingFails » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:41 am

My main issue with collaborations is that too many modern stars overrely on them. IMO, artists' should establish themselves on their own, and a collab should be something special. Whitney and Mariah in 1998 was special, Donna Summer and Barbra Streisand in 1979 was special, Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson was special, as was when they both worked with Stevie Wonder and when MJ worked with Mick Jagger and Janet, etc.. A good collab is when two icons of fairly similar status will team up, its a meeting of minds and something that will appeal to both fanbases. Nowadays you have people with six collaborations on their first album. How can you really establish who you are as an artist if every other song has a special guest rapper or hot dance producer or something on it... establish yourself as yourself first IMO.
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