Miss Universe pageant disqualifies Transgender Contestant

by **GetBack** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:32 pm

This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.

by **jio** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:34 pm

Star wrote:I'm going to watch a tranny film tonight at the BFI Lesbian & Gay Film Festival. My friends got the tickets and I'm like

Check it out:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/llgff/node/1650

sounds crap. I bet half the cinema will be crying

by **summer** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:45 pm

GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.

The best description for a beauty contest!

by **Poop123** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:53 pm

JustForMe wrote:
GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.
The best description for a beauty contest!

Tell that to all the veneers wearing, collagen lips, and silicon boobs contestants that are competing.

by **danbarj** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:53 pm

GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.

by **GetBack** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:05 pm

Poop123 wrote:
JustForMe wrote:
GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.
The best description for a beauty contest!
Tell that to all the veneers wearing, collagen lips, and silicon boobs contestants that are competing.

Surgical enhancement is different from surgical re-assignment.

by **sambo9** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:09 pm

Why is it? If you want "natural", then lets eliminate cosmetic surgery too.

Fake vagina, fake boobs - it's all in the aid of trying to make someone appear/feel more feminine.

by **Poop123** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:10 pm

GetBack wrote:
Poop123 wrote:
JustForMe wrote:
GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.
The best description for a beauty contest!
Tell that to all the veneers wearing, collagen lips, and silicon boobs contestants that are competing.
Surgical enhancement is different from surgical re-assignment.

So surgical "enhancement" is authentic, real and genuine...plzzzzz. :roll:

This is crazy.

I'm outta here!......

by **leoapp** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:55 pm

Poop123 wrote:
GetBack wrote:
Poop123 wrote:
JustForMe wrote:
GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.
The best description for a beauty contest!
Tell that to all the veneers wearing, collagen lips, and silicon boobs contestants that are competing.
Surgical enhancement is different from surgical re-assignment.
So surgical "enhancement" is authentic, real and genuine...plzzzzz.

Yes, so true, not only transgenders who have done plastic surgery. And plastic surgey is plastic surgery whether it's enhancement or re-assigment or whatever.
I think the issue here is just about the REAL gender. And Miss Universe is clearly for real woman, not transgenders. There are already many beauty contests for transgenders.

by **GetBack** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:52 pm

Poop123 wrote:
GetBack wrote:
Poop123 wrote:
JustForMe wrote:
GetBack wrote:This issue is not about ignorance and discrimination, it's about knowing what's authentic, real and genuine and separating it from what's fictitious, misleading and fake.
The best description for a beauty contest!
Tell that to all the veneers wearing, collagen lips, and silicon boobs contestants that are competing.
Surgical enhancement is different from surgical re-assignment.
So surgical "enhancement" is authentic, real and genuine...plzzzzz.

This is crazy.

I never said that. The topic I am discussing is about transgenders joining beauty pageants for females, not the enhancement of body parts of the female contestants. In my quoted post, I was referring to genuine, authentic, real women. If they have enhanced boobs, hair extensions, liposuction, botox, fake lips, it is up to the discretion of the pageant organizers.

It is a totally different scenario if you claim to be a female when you're not a female to begin with, that's why I said that he is fake and misleading. There is no discrimination against the transsexual because he isn't really qualified in the first place.

by **westhammer** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:37 pm

I'm shocked and appaled at how many gay men on this forum can't accept/get transexuality. A lot of straight people don't "get" homosexuality! It's not your problem to understand, because I'm sure no one can understand what it feels like for the people themselves. It's also highly disrespectful using "he" or "it".

And in terms of born this way baby, etc and all that shit. Some people who are actually born XY, end up living their lives as females because of an enzyme deficiency which blocks their testosterone. So XY/XX means absolutely nothing in transexuality

by **Titan3510** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:32 am

westhammer wrote:Some people who are actually born XY, end up living their lives as females because of an enzyme deficiency which blocks their testosterone. So XY/XX means absolutely nothing in transexuality

If you have the XY chromosme, you are male.

If you have the XX chromosome, you are female.

Technically, if you have the XY chromosome and if you have testosterone deficiency, you won't spend the rest of your life as a female. Because shouldn't you have spent the rest of your life as a boy: you wouldn't of ever entered into puberty.

It's not your problem to understand, because I'm sure no one can understand what it feels like for the people themselves.

If that's how it's gonna be, then maybe you shouldn't try to shove the concept down people's throats.

by **Star** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:58 am

jio wrote:
Star wrote:I'm going to watch a tranny film tonight at the BFI Lesbian & Gay Film Festival. My friends got the tickets and I'm like

Check it out:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/llgff/node/1650
sounds crap. I bet half the cinema will be crying

It was sh*t :lol:

Didn't get why the kid wanted to be a girl so desperately. Taking pills, getting a boob job, wearing wigs. It was a yawnfest.

by **westhammer** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:48 pm

Titan3510 wrote:
westhammer wrote:Some people who are actually born XY, end up living their lives as females because of an enzyme deficiency which blocks their testosterone. So XY/XX means absolutely nothing in transexuality
If you have the XY chromosme, you are male.

If you have the XX chromosome, you are female.

Technically, if you have the XY chromosome and if you have testosterone deficiency, you won't spend the rest of your life as a female. Because shouldn't you have spent the rest of your life as a boy: you wouldn't of ever entered into puberty.

It's not your problem to understand, because I'm sure no one can understand what it feels like for the people themselves.
If that's how it's gonna be, then maybe you shouldn't try to shove the concept down people's throats.

Point 1: No, you live your life as a female. It may not be discovered until a girl misses her period. So this girl will continue to live as XY

Point 2: I'd hardly call what I said oppressive at all, lighten up

by **Titan3510** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:04 am

westhammer wrote:Point 1: No, you live your life as a female. It may not be discovered until a girl misses her period. So this girl will continue to live as XY

Wait...what?

If you're a girl, you're genetic make-up reads XX. Not XY.

If you're a boy, your genetic make-up reads XY. Not XX.

Puberty is the transition from childhood to adulthood. Not the transition from no gender to gender.

Both men and women have testosterone and estrogen. Both of them need it.

It's just that men have booku testosterone and very little estrogen. And women are the opposite: they have lots of estrogen and small amounts of testosterone.

If a man has testosterone deficiency at the onset of puberty, that does not mean that he automatically will have enough estrogen to take on female traits. It just means that he'll keep a boyish appearance...

Same thing for women.

Now, if a man somehow has an imbalance and has more estrogen than testosterone (in the case of a women vice versa), then he'll develop more feminine traits. But he'd still be male.

In that case, all you need to do is take certain medication/treatments that suppresses or cripples his estogren levels and/or augments his testosterone levels.

Regardless of hormone levels, people will still be either male or female.

Why? Because they will still have their respective genitalia AND because their DNA sex chromosomes will be either XX or XY.

To be fair, hermaphrodites are a little different and I don't know much about them.

Nevertheless, it's all in the DNA.

by **SpyVsSpy** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:19 am

Same DNA, but born this way...

by **Grybop** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:30 am

When it comes to discrimination, transgender is the new gay. Appalled at some people expressing views I'd expect from a christian
extremist.

by **Jesper** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:42 am

I feel that from both sides, people need to learn to accept things.

The transgenders need to accept that certain things are not for them, in the way they expect or want it, such as the contests in this story, but there are alternatives like a transgender contests, I mean it may be on a different level but in the sport in a lot of sports there is no way man and female enter in the same round of the same contest/game and also no way that a disabled person or team plays to a "healthy" team.
I see that things in the same way, yeah we need to accept transgenders, they are also people and deserve also respect for the fact they found a way to be happy in their own way, but there should also be enough alternative's, so that transgenders who feel the need to do certain things get the same fair chance (in a slightly other way) to participate as born girls.

by **sambo9** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:36 pm

There's a difference between sex and gender. You can be genetically male, but still have the desire for society to recognise you as a female at the same time - and I think that's perfectly acceptable.

by **urbanmusik** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:46 pm

A naturally born woman can't enter transgender contests, so I don't see why a transgender contestant should be allowed to enter a competition for women.

by **ANH** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:49 pm

Jesper wrote:I feel that from both sides, people need to learn to accept things.

The transgenders need to accept that certain things are not for them, in the way they expect or want it, such as the contests in this story, but there are alternatives like a transgender contests, I mean it may be on a different level but in the sport in a lot of sports there is no way man and female enter in the same round of the same contest/game and also no way that a disabled person or team plays to a "healthy" team.
I see that things in the same way, yeah we need to accept transgenders, they are also people and deserve also respect for the fact they found a way to be happy in their own way, but there should also be enough alternative's, so that transgenders who feel the need to do certain things get the same fair chance (in a slightly other way) to participate as born girls.

Well said.

Website · by **Wolfsmagik** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:22 pm

Trump Reverses Decision to Ban Transsexual Beauty Queen From Miss Universe Canada

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/donald-trump-transsexual-miss-universe-canada-jenna-talackova-307289[/quote]

by **GetBack** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:35 pm

Wolfsmagik wrote:Trump Reverses Decision to Ban Transsexual Beauty Queen From Miss Universe Canada

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/donald-trump-transsexual-miss-universe-canada-jenna-talackova-307289

Interesting! Imagine if "she" wins Miss Canada?!

by **westhammer** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:41 pm

Titan3510 wrote:
westhammer wrote:Point 1: No, you live your life as a female. It may not be discovered until a girl misses her period. So this girl will continue to live as XY
Wait...what?

If you're a girl, you're genetic make-up reads XX. Not XY.

If you're a boy, your genetic make-up reads XY. Not XX.

Puberty is the transition from childhood to adulthood. Not the transition from no gender to gender.

Both men and women have testosterone and estrogen. Both of them need it.

It's just that men have booku testosterone and very little estrogen. And women are the opposite: they have lots of estrogen and small amounts of testosterone.

If a man has testosterone deficiency at the onset of puberty, that does not mean that he automatically will have enough estrogen to take on female traits. It just means that he'll keep a boyish appearance...

Same thing for women.

Now, if a man somehow has an imbalance and has more estrogen than testosterone (in the case of a women vice versa), then he'll develop more feminine traits. But he'd still be male.

In that case, all you need to do is take certain medication/treatments that suppresses or cripples his estogren levels and/or augments his testosterone levels.

Regardless of hormone levels, people will still be either male or female.

Why? Because they will still have their respective genitalia AND because their DNA sex chromosomes will be either XX or XY.

To be fair, hermaphrodites are a little different and I don't know much about them.

Nevertheless, it's all in the DNA.

Sorry now, look up androgen insensitivity syndrome.

by **jpguy** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:20 am

LOS ANGELES — A Canadian woman originally barred from the Miss Universe Pageant because she was born a male has been given the thumbs-up to participate in the competition and there’s a suggestion her case might allow others like her to take part in future.

Donald Trump, who runs the Miss Universe Organization, has confirmed that Jenna Talackova can compete to represent her country in the pageant and wished her luck in her quest for the crown.

Talackova, who is from Vancouver, had said she was devastated when she was originally told she’d be excluded from the pageant for not being a "natural born woman."

After issuing a statement on Tuesday clarifying Talackova could compete, Trump went on to tell ABC’s Good Morning America on Wednesday that Talackova’s case may open up the contest to other transgender hopefuls.

"Probably, we’ll have to open it up from that standpoint," he said. "Because if it’s in Canada and if it’s in the United States in terms of their laws and if other countries don’t necessarily have those laws . . . it wouldn’t be fair just to take certain countries."

Trump added that his pageant had followed Canadian and U.S. laws in deciding the matter.

"The laws are very clear. So, based on that, about two days ago we decided to let her compete and we hope she does well," he said.

Trump’s initial statement came on the same day that Talackova and her attorney Gloria Allred urged the organization to clarify its gender requirements.

The organization said it actually made the decision Monday to let Talackova compete to become Canada’s contestant. It said the 23-year-old could enter the pageant "provided she meets the legal gender recognition requirements of Canada, and the standards established by other international competitions." No further details were provided.

Talackova and Allred said that wasn’t clear enough and demanded a clear answer during a news conference in Los Angeles.

Allred held up a copy of Talackova’s Canadian passport that states she is a woman — as do her birth certificate and driver’s licence — and declared the pageant’s rule requiring contestants to be born women "blatant discrimination," antiquated and grounded in fear and prejudice.

Talackova, who addressed the media for the first time since the controversy erupted last month, said she wanted Trump to clearly state that the

naturally born female rule be erased.

"I do not want any other woman to suffer the discrimination that I have endured," she said. "I was devastated and felt that excluding me for the reason they gave was unjust."

The tall, slim, blond Tal-ackova was originally accepted to take part in the May 19 Miss Universe Canada Pageant, but was later told she couldn’t participate.

She had gender-reassignment surgery when she was 19.

She has never hidden her status and in fact took part in the 2010 Miss International Queen competition in Thailand, where she explained in a media interview that she knew as young as four that she was a female.

In response to Talackova and Allred’s statements to the press on Tuesday, the pageant organizers issued a statement saying "Gloria Allred’s statements to the press today pay no mind to the fact that Mr. Trump and the Miss Universe Organization made the fair and just decision in allowing Jenna to compete in the Miss Universe 2012 Canada pageant."

It also said it’s evaluating its rules to ensure that type of issue does not occur again.

"There is no need to further ‘evaluate,’ " Allred responded late Tuesday. "The rule is blatantly discriminatory and it is time for Mr. Trump to say that he will get rid of the rule."

The rule requiring a contestant to be "naturally born female" appears to still be in effect in other countries around the world, Allred said.

SHE WAS ACCEPTED!!!