The Hits Daily Double Thread

by **NothingFails** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:48 pm

Timmy94 wrote:But not in the way 19, Lady Antebellum or Taylor Swift did...

True, but Katy's music is disposable top 40 pop that loses its value as soon as it falls off the charts... much like how Spice Girls or Britney never had major catalog sales.

by **Timmy94** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:56 pm

That's true...
Though there seems to be a difference between Spice Girls and Britney Spears because if Teenage Dream had a similiar chart run to Spice or Baby One More Time, those 4 mio. would've been a realistic thing to reach but as joao already mentioned, Teenage Dream only spent 3 weeks in the top 5 (and this when chart positions mean the same in the 90s and in 2012) and this despite 6 No.-1-singles.

As my expected chart run proves, I didn't say it must've sold 100k each week (I see this is a pretty much blockbuster-thing so 21, Come On Over or Jagged Little Pill) but I don't think that months in the top 10 would be an out of the world-guess, especially as the era was held on a very stable level so the album actually never had the chance to decrease hard.

by **NothingFails** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:59 pm

Right. I think Katy doing what she's done is impressive... we can't compare the era to 21, 21 is on its own level. Most people thought Katy was going to be a one-album artist after her first album faded, and that people thought Gaga was going to leave Katy in the dust, yet TD has been able to do as well as BTW had, and if you count longevity instead of frontloaded sales, arguably has been the more successful album because TD cemented Katy's place as a pop star who is going to be around a bit, whereas BTW all but confirms that Gaga was in fact overhyped.

by **Allthatisholy** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:44 pm

Timmy94 wrote:But not in the way 19, Lady Antebellum or Wide Open did...

Different demographics among consumers!
That's very important these days, an album like BOMT with today's climate, would only sell like 10% of its total today, imho

by **NothingFails** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:50 pm

Allthatisholy wrote:
Timmy94 wrote:But not in the way 19, Lady Antebellum or Wide Open did...
Different demographics among consumers!
That's very important these days, an album like BOMT with today's climate, would only sell like 10% of its total today, imho

Right, the teenage pop music demographic cares more about singles than albums. Britney and Spice happened pre-iTunes. Today it'd be an entirely different story. BSB wouldn't sell 12 million, maybe 3 million at best now.

by **ginnyfan** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:54 pm

Definitively for Katy TD album sales were a big success she actually improved on her first album, which wasn't that hard though since it didn't do that well.

I guess when you have such extraordinary singles success you expect the album to follow the same path which did not happen in this case. 2 million in today's market/industry is great but not proportional to what her singles achieved. But in the end it's the way music market works these days and it's part of the new rules. Only Adele is an exception and some kind of a blast from the past with both her singles and album doing amazingly well.

by **danbarj** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:01 pm

1 million first week isn't proportional to 2.2 million total sales.

And I don't say that to shade Gaga. I say that to say NO ONE is selling "what they should" (in this sense, most of you, especially Timmy, mean what the exceptions are selling and/or what they sold in late 90s).

Katy's album, I'm sure, did everything the label expected... why, because they aren't ukmixers. They are label execs who understand the business. They understand that teenagers and young adults tend to buy singles more than albums. They understand that, with the exception of some country albums which have amazing longevity, most aren't going well beyond platinum. They understand that we are in 2012. They understand that single success is NO longer indicative of album success.

ONLY UKMIXERS HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE MEMO.

Even Billboard and Paul G. speak on this QUITE often in their various articles. They speak of the differences in today's market from before and what is expected nowadays.

Only the people HERE don't get it. I don't, for the life of me, understand it.

It was possible for R&B artist to ONLY have R&B hits and go multi-platinum. It was possible for country artists to ONLY have country hits and go multi-platinum. That's not happening too much, IF AT ALL, nowadays. Just the same way that if BSB or NSYNC came out now, instead of before, they're albums probably wouldn't sell like they did before... NOR would the chart runs be comparable because it's a different time. The HABITS OF THE CONSUMERS HAS CHANGED. Just as it has with: gas, home buying, saving, investment in trusts and bonds, buying of clothing, and everything else.

The only people that don't get it are UKMIXERS because we have some inherent desire to shade everybody but Adele (whose future remains to be seen) and can't differetiate between Mumford & Sons, Taylor Swift and Jason Aldean (all country acts), Eminem (a 2x diamond selling legend in rap and pop) and newer, POST-digital acts like Perry, GAGA and Rihanna!

@joao - you keep bringing up 19, which didn't TAKE OFF until after the 21 phenomenom. 3 years later!!! In the same manner, we don't know what albums will continue to sell in the future or anything. 19, at initial release, did MODERATELY and nothing more. You're so blinded by your own shade.

by **thebigham** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:05 pm

ONE year ago:

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/archcht.cgi?cht441

CHART DATE: 04/04/2011

-- 1 BRITNEY SPEARS JIVE/JLG 278,618 --
FEMME FATALE
-- 2 WIZ KHALIFA ATLANTIC 191,777 --
ROLLING PAPERS
3 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 93,782 -2%
21
1 4 CHRIS BROWN JIVE/JLG 88,396 -68%
F.A.M.E.
6 5 SONGS FOR JAPAN UNIVERSAL INTERNATIONAL 71,616 +4%
VARIOUS ARTISTS
-- 6 RADIOHEAD TBD 60,067 --
KING OF LIMBS
2 7 JENNIFER HUDSON ARISTA/RMG 53,953 -68%
I REMEMBER ME
-- 8 SNOOP DOGG DS/PRIORITY/EMI 49,145 --
DOGGUMENTARY
5 9 KIRK FRANKLIN GOSPOCENTRIC 46,159 -47%
HELLO FEAR
-- 10 MARY MARY COLUMBIA 41,648 --
SOMETHING BIG

by **NothingFails** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:55 pm

ginnyfan wrote:Definitively for Katy TD album sales were a big success she actually improved on her first album, which wasn't that hard though since it didn't do that well.

One Of The Boys was no "The Fame", but I think it did better than Capitol expected when spearheaded by a novelty single.

by **NothingFails** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:00 pm

danbarj wrote:1 million first week isn't proportional to 2.2 million total sales.

And I don't say that to shade Gaga. I say that to say NO ONE is selling "what they should" (in this sense, most of you, especially Timmy, mean what the exceptions are selling and/or what they sold in late 90s).

Katy's album, I'm sure, did everything the label expected... why, because they aren't ukmixers. They are label execs who understand the business. They understand that teenagers and young adults tend to buy singles more than albums. They understand that, with the exception of some country albums which have amazing longevity, most aren't going well beyond platinum. They understand that we are in 2012. They understand that single success is NO longer indicative of album success.

ONLY UKMIXERS HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE MEMO.

Even Billboard and Paul G. speak on this QUITE often in their various articles. They speak of the differences in today's market from before and what is expected nowadays.

Only the people HERE don't get it. I don't, for the life of me, understand it.

It was possible for R&B artist to ONLY have R&B hits and go multi-platinum. It was possible for country artists to ONLY have country hits and go multi-platinum. That's not happening too much, IF AT ALL, nowadays. Just the same way that if BSB or NSYNC came out now, instead of before, they're albums probably wouldn't sell like they did before... NOR would the chart runs be comparable because it's a different time. The HABITS OF THE CONSUMERS HAS CHANGED. Just as it has with: gas, home buying, saving, investment in trusts and bonds, buying of clothing, and everything else.

The only people that don't get it are UKMIXERS because we have some inherent desire to shade everybody but Adele (whose future remains to be seen) and can't differetiate between Mumford & Sons, Taylor Swift and Jason Aldean (all country acts), Eminem (a 2x diamond selling legend in rap and pop) and newer, POST-digital acts like Perry, GAGA and Rihanna!

@joao - you keep bringing up 19, which didn't TAKE OFF until after the 21 phenomenom. 3 years later!!! In the same manner, we don't know what albums will continue to sell in the future or anything. 19, at initial release, did MODERATELY and nothing more. You're so blinded by your own shade.

I agree with everything you said except the bolded part. Mumford And Sons are folk-rock, definitely not country. Rock/Alternative has been the format they've had the most success in, whereas they haven't had any country airplay.

I think Teenage Dream has been a definite success. Granted, not "21" but no album released since Usher's "Confessions" can take that claim. Most people figured TD would maybe end with 500-600k after having such a disappointing opening with the biggest single of that summer, and yet the album has hung around and given us hit after hit. People forget that the majority figured Katy would be a non-entity by this point anyways. I don't know anyone who didn't believe she was going to be a one-album wonder, and I remember all the people in 2009 who said Gaga's rise would be Katy's death knell and yet in 2012 I think Katy is arguably the bigger star.

by **Hafo** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:12 pm

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

CHART DATE: 04/02/2012
LAST UPDATE: 04/02/2012 12:08:51
NOW IN: 54.02%

LW TW artist / album label power index
-- 1 MADONNA INTERSCOPE 147,686
MDNA
-- 2 LIONEL RICHIE MERCURY NASHVILLE 139,522
TUSKEGEE
2 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 74,058
21
-- 4 SHINEDOWN ATLANTIC 40,477
AMARYLLIS
4 5 ONE DIRECTION SYCO/COLUMBIA 21,072
UP ALL NIGHT
-- 6 KATY PERRY CAPITOL/EMI 19,696
TEENAGE DREAM
1 7 HUNGER GAMES: SONGS FROM DISTRIC UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 18,350
SOUNDTRACK
9 8 NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC 41 CAPITOL/EMI 16,956
VARIOUS ARTISTS
8 9 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 15,393
WHITNEY - THE GREATEST HITS
16 10 LUKE BRYAN CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 15,068
TAILGATES & TANLINES

by **flotando** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 pm

We all know how HDD works but I'm still surprised Lionel's already at 139k when he was projected 140k-160k first and a little bit higher afterwards.

Are there a lot of cases where a record's numbers barely move from one day to another?

by **PosziMC2** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:50 pm

Adele is only the 3rd. I wont be able to survive that

by **Hafo** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:52 pm

flotando wrote:Are there a lot of cases where a record's numbers barely move from one day to another?

Yup, I can remember several.

by **thebigham** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:08 pm

NOW IN: 54.02%

LW TW artist / album label power index
-- 1 MADONNA INTERSCOPE 147,686
MDNA
-- 2 LIONEL RICHIE MERCURY NASHVILLE 139,522
TUSKEGEE
2 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 74,058
21
-- 4 SHINEDOWN ATLANTIC 40,477
AMARYLLIS
4 5 ONE DIRECTION SYCO/COLUMBIA 21,072
UP ALL NIGHT
-- 6 KATY PERRY CAPITOL/EMI 19,696
TEENAGE DREAM
1 7 HUNGER GAMES: SONGS FROM DISTRIC UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 18,350
SOUNDTRACK
9 8 NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC 41 CAPITOL/EMI 16,956
VARIOUS ARTISTS
8 9 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 15,393
WHITNEY - THE GREATEST HITS
16 10 LUKE BRYAN CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 15,068
TAILGATES & TANLINES
17 11 SHAKE IT UP: LIVE 2 DANCE WALT DISNEY 11,663
SOUNDTRACK
14 12 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 10,835
19
-- 13 SCOTTY MCCREERY MERC NASH/19/INTERSCOPE 9,262
CLEAR AS DAY
23 14 JASON ALDEAN BROKEN BOW 9,144
MY KINDA PARTY
6 15 BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN COLUMBIA 8,886
WRECKING BALL
18 16 KELLY CLARKSON 19/RCA 8,644
STRONGER
29 17 ERIC CHURCH CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 8,198
CHIEF
27 18 LADY ANTEBELLUM CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 8,191
OWN THE NIGHT
7 19 MELANIE FIONA SRC/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 7,636
THE MF LIFE
41 20 KIDZ BOP KIDS RAZOR & TIE 7,383
KIDZ BOP 21
19 21 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 7,001
TALK THAT TALK
26 22 LMFAO INTERSCOPE 6,275
SORRY FOR PARTY ROCKING
15 23 DRAKE YM/CM/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 6,138
TAKE CARE
-- 24 BLAKE SHELTON WARNER BROS. NASHVILLE 6,102
RED RIVER BLUE
34 25 NICKELBACK ROADRUNNER 6,054
HERE AND NOW
-- 26 ALL-AMERICAN REJECTS INTERSCOPE 5,816
KIDS IN THE STREET
-- 27 THE USED HOPELESS 5,660
VUNERABLE
36 28 BODYGUARD RCA 5,348
SOUNDTRACK
13 29 GOTYE FAIRFAX/UNIV REPUBLIC 5,151
MAKING MIRRORS
-- 30 MARS VOLTA WARNER BROS. 5,018
NOCTOURNIQUET
-- 31 FRESH BEAT BAND NICKELODEON/LEGACY 4,976
MUSIC FROM THE HIT TV SHOW
-- 32 MY DARKEST DAYS MERCURY 4,632
SICK & TWISTED AFFAIR
46 33 THE BAND PERRY REPUBLIC NASHVILLE 4,485
THE BAND PERRY
40 34 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 4,477
I LOOK TO YOU
48 35 MIRANDA LAMBERT RCA NASHVILLE 4,431
FOUR THE RECORD
-- 36 TOBY KEITH SHOW DOG 4,315
CLANCY'S TAVERN
32 37 YOUNG JEEZY DEF JAM/IDJ 4,237
TM 103: HUSTLER AMBITION
-- 38 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 4,227
SPEAK NOW
-- 39 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 4,142
WHITNEY HOUSTON
39 40 BRANTLEY GILBERT BIG MACHINE 4,118
HALFWAY TO HEAVEN
24 41 CASEY JAMES 19/BNA 3,940
CASEY JAMES
22 42 BLACK KEYS NONESUCH 3,923
EL CAMINO
20 43 TYGA CASH MONEY/UNIV REPUBLIC 3,862
CARELESS WORLD
11 44 DIGGY ATLANTIC 3,710
UNEXPECTED ARRIVAL
42 45 BRUNO MARS NEW ELEKTRA 3,692
DOO-WOPS & HOOLIGANS
-- 46 MARY J. BLIGE GEFFEN 3,680
MY LIFE II-THE JOURNEY CONTINUES
43 47 VAN HALEN INTERSCOPE 3,584
DIFFERENT KIND OF TRUTH
12 48 FUN. FUELED BY RAMEN 3,341
SOME NIGHTS
30 49 COLDPLAY CAPITOL/EMI 3,159
MYLO XYLOTO
-- 50 MAROON 5 A&M/OCTONE 2,937
HANDS ALL OVER

by **GUS** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:09 pm

I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".

by **NothingFails** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:14 pm

argentino78 wrote:I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".

After the Prince thing, Soundscan and Billboard stopped counting cd's given away with concert tickets.

by **denise** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:18 pm

argentino78 wrote:I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".

Prince Musicology was given for free actually....that's why Soundscan changed its policy....as far as I know.....

by **thebigham** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:15 pm

argentino78 wrote:I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".

HITS will not give that info.

Billboard will.

by **Play** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:15 pm

22 42 BLACK KEYS NONESUCH 3,923
EL CAMINO

This better go up in the final update!

Me LastFM · by **AutomaticBR** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:33 pm

denise wrote:
argentino78 wrote:I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".
Prince Musicology was given for free actually....that's why Soundscan changed its policy....as far as I know.....

isn't the same that's happening with Madonna? as far as I know, the price of the ticket is the same with or without the album, which is the same as giving away for free.

by **thebigham** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:07 pm

^No. The Madonna album is not free. The price was added to the concert ticket. The sale is only counted if the buyer redeems the album. Redemption rates are usually low.

Tom Petty and Bon Jovi did this with their recent albums/tours. Where was the outcry then?

by **FliplovesMC** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:26 am

-- 6 KATY PERRY CAPITOL/EMI 19,696
TEENAGE DREAM

I didn't realize the release of Confection was last week, will it be counted the same like Fame Monster or is it gonna be separate?

by **denise** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:31 am

AutomaticBR wrote:
denise wrote:
argentino78 wrote:I hope they explicitly say MDNA sales sources... I mean, how many physical and download sales but also how many albums were sold with the tour ticket. It would be interesting, it was a smart move years ago for Prince's "Musicology".
Prince Musicology was given for free actually....that's why Soundscan changed its policy....as far as I know.....
isn't the same that's happening with Madonna? as far as I know, the price of the ticket is the same with or without the album, which is the same as giving away for free.

NO!

And I've been telling you that in Madonna thread too.

by **starshine90** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:41 am

Hope Katy Perry could crack into top 5 at final.
:wink: