Unpopular Opinions AKA "there, I've said it"

[neoepzilon]

Word. Nice one Titan for bringing the debate for equal rights back about 30 years.

:

Thatttttttt's Titan!

[biscuits]

AND I will raise them the right way - as a fan of Celine Dion.

Christ almighty, someone put Childline on speed-dial.

That's probably a popular opinion if someone was planning on raising their kids listening to Celine Dion.

[Titan3510]

I think it's amusing that people managed to misunderstand just about everything that I said.

Again.

Did I say that gay people can't be good parents? Did I say that they can't adopt children? Did I say that straight people are good parents just because they are straight?

Did I say any of that?

Are you guys even reading my posts?

Not only would it be the respectful thing to do but it would be the right thing to do. In the same token, there's nothing and no one forcing you to read my posts.

Whether you choose to read them or not is up to you, but if you don't read them, don't comment on them.

-----------------------

Everyone knows that children who grow up in a stable, loving household with a mother and a father have a distinct advantage over children who don't.

Everyone knows that. So why even try to gloss over that...

[Muzikritik]

Everyone knows that children who grow up in a stable, loving household with a mother and a father have a distinct advantage over children who don't.

Everyone knows that. So why even try to gloss over that...

Hmmm. I think the keywords in that are "stable, loving household" that have the advantage - regardless of what role the person plays (mother, father, aunt, grandfather etc) over children who don't.

Cause lets be real, mum + dad does not = love, just because of the sum of its parts.

[sambo9]

I wasn't directing my post solely towards you, Titan (which is why I said "regarding the gay adoption thing", instead of just quoting you directly!). It was just a ramble about why I don't understand arguments against gay adoption, which just happened to stem slightly from a couple of the posts on the previous page.

And your post was very anti-gay adoption; you were talking about the importance of gender, and the fact that children are "hurting" because they haven't got a parent of a certain sex around.

And as usual, your comment was full of dismissive, point-blank statements that gave no room for other people to have an opinion, e.g. "I'm sorry but that's the truth", "You are mistaken", which fuels people to respond to you with a more aggressive tone.

[samra]

If you can choose to smoke, can I choose NOT to pay for your healthcare? Please??

It sounds mean and selfish but so is smoking. It's a major burden on hospitals/government funds/etc. and in turn the rest of society, harmful to anyone near the smoker and leads to basically every disease and cancer known to man. Why would anyone in the year 2012 still smoke, unless they were a long term smoker that couldn't curb their addiction due to years of use?

[Titan3510]

And your post was very anti-gay adoption; you were talking about the importance of gender, and the fact that children are "hurting" because they haven't got a parent of a certain sex around.

Well...gender is important.

Boys love their mothers like no other....but boys are naturally going to look to a man as they grow up: for guidance. And if they don't see that man, they'll just have to do with learning on their own or they'll find him in something, anything else.

So, the other day, a friend of mine and I were talking about how it feels to graduate from high school and he burst into tears when he told me that his father essentially refused to come to this one party he was having in July where people were going to come over and give him stuff he needs for college...

On paper, it's minor and it's not like his father will be at the actual graduation ceremony...but it's so much more deeper than that.

And as usual, your comment was full of dismissive, point-blank statements that gave no room for other people to have an opinion, e.g. "I'm sorry but that's the truth", "You are mistaken", which fuels people to respond to you with a more aggressive tone.

But it is the truth, Sambo.

A boy needs a man and a woman in his life. Now, how they get it or whom they get it from really doesn't matter but the need still must be met.

I can't fault two men for raising a girl just because they are men; because they are doing the right thing by taking that little girl and trying to raise her into a decent human being.

But the fact of the matter is that no matter how much motherly love her fathers give her, no matter how well they teach her feminine hygiene, she will yearn for her mother. Instinctively.

It's almost the same thing with single parent households.

I don't hold the fact that a single mother has stand in as both a father and a mother for her children against her. Whether it's her fault that she's single or not, it doesn't matter because she's hopefully doing the best that she can.

But I'm not going to sit here and lie. I'm not going to call it an ideal or an advantageous situation because it's not. And I'm going to tell other people to do their best to avoid putting themselves and their children in those kinds of situations.

Maybe I should stop using that terminology because of the fact that you guys can't see the body language I communicate. Scratch that: I probably should...

But I really wish people would stop letting their personal feelings prevent them from hearing what it is that I'm saying.

[biscuits]

I'm not against gay adoption, but I still have some questions about it.

Like, how does a child feel having to tell their classmates they have 2 dads and no mom? It can't be easy I'm sure.

[sambo9]

But I really wish people would stop letting their personal feelings prevent them from hearing what it is that I'm saying.

There's no doubt that people can hear you, Titan. It's pretty loud and clear.

[Titan3510]

^ Excuse me.

I meant to say this:

But I really wish people would stop letting their personal feelings prevent them from thinking about what I'm saying

[neoepzilon]

I'm not against gay adoption, but I still have some questions about it.

Like, how does a child feel having to tell their classmates they have 2 dads and no mom? It can't be easy I'm sure.

Thanks for providing this logic biscuits.

As omnisexual as I am, I just feel that a mother and father is optimal. But I am not against Gay Adoption, I just think it has complications and can deprive a child of something more integral than just a stable, well provided for home.

But whatever! I know if I ended up with a guy I'm just going to get a dog.

[sambo9]

It's not really logic, is it? It's dodging a problem (bullying at school) instead of solving it. Would it have been "logical" in the 50s to prevent a black father and a white mother from having children because the child might be teased in the playground?

[neoepzilon]

It's logical to approach a situation considering the pros and the cons and understanding that it may not be a proper solution to a problem.

[Titan3510]

It's logical to approach a situation considering the pros and the cons and understanding that it may not be a proper solution to a problem.

This.

It's not really logic, is it? It's dodging a problem (bullying at school) instead of solving it. Would it have been "logical" in the 50s to prevent a black father and a white mother from having children because the child might be teased in the playground?

I understand where you're coming from but you really shouldn't compare race and sexual orientation like that.

Like I said, I totally see where you're coming from but trying to equate discrimination based on sexual orientation with that of race is inequitable.

It's just not the same thing; and it should be approached differently.

Because in the '50s, it was much more likely that the black man would've been lynched before he would've had the chance to be married to a white woman, much less have children with her.

[CrazyCrazy]

Discrimination is discrimination.

[Brad]

2. Gay parents make just a job as straight parents, gender doesn't matter in raising a child

Gender does matter when it comes to raising a child. And children need a mother and a father.

I'm not judging; I'm just saying.

Strongly disagree with this.

Gender does matter.

Boys and girls are different and should be raised differently.

A man cannot teach a girl to be a woman and a woman cannot teach a boy to be a man. It's just not feasible to be both the man of the hosue and a mother at the same time.

I'm sorry but it's the truth.

If you guys really think that growing up without a mother or a father doesn't affect the majority of children, then you are sadly mistaken...

Everyone knows that children who grow up in a stable, loving household with a mother and a father have a distinct advantage over children who don't.

Everyone knows that. So why even try to gloss over that...

This is just not true. I was brought up by my mother, my mother alone, and I'm 100% sure I'm no less a man than any other. The whole 'teach a boy to be man' nonsense is a backwards view to start with.

Referring to your point about children with a mother and father having an advantage over those who don't: I spent my entire time at school smarter, more mature and well-mannered than all of the children with married parents.

So please excuse me for being slightly offended by what you have said.

[Mike_54]

put gay rights or gay parenting aside, but Titan what you wrote is absoulute non-truth, and I definetley disagree with everything you wrote...

[marcsi]

I spent my entire time at school smarter, more mature and well-mannered than all of the children with married parents.

...and more humble

j/k, I remember when I first saw a photo of u I was quite surprised those thoughtful and mature posts come from such a young person

[Titan3510]

This is just not true. I was brought up by my mother, my mother alone, and I'm 100% sure I'm no less a man than any other.

So please excuse me for being slightly offended by what you have said.

You're taking offense to things that I haven't even said, dude...

Did I say that a woman can't raise her son up to be an upstanding man? No.

I just said that it's less than ideal and a bit disadvantageous. It's an uphill battle.

Bless your mother's heart though; I almost guarantee that it was really hard for her but I'm sure she must be so proud to know what kind of man you've turned out to be man.

Still...

The reality is that people have done study after study after study and it has been shown that children who grow up in stable, loving households with an attentive mother and father are more likely to succeed in life than children who don't.

Nobody is saying that children who grow up in dysfunctional or alternative homes can't grow up to be upstanding adults. It's just harder on the parents and the children: the odds are almost stacked against them.

Now granted, I only have full cognizant with the American slant of this topic goes but it still all comes down to the fact that although some men and women are able to rise to the challenge and raise up some of the most outstanding people, most can't do that. For whatever reason.

Do you guys need statistics? It's an legitimate question; no shade intended.

The whole 'teach a boy to be man' nonsense is a backwards view to start with.

Call it what you will but there is a method to the madness.

Referring to your point about children with a mother and father having an advantage over those who don't

Once again, you're addressing a distortion of my argument, rather than addressing my actual argument.

I spent my entire time at school smarter, more mature and well-mannered than all of the children with married parents.

All?

Really? Don't get me wrong; I'm not doubting your intelligence or your refinement by any means. But you were more mature, more polite and more intelligent than all of them?

That's a very...general statement.

You didn't know all those kids like that. Who knows what kind of home environments they had? Who knows where they were at mentally?

So many things factor into family life issues that we would need an entirely new thread for the discussion.

Do you guys want to start one or something?

[Brad]

I spent my entire time at school smarter, more mature and well-mannered than all of the children with married parents.

...and more humble

j/k, I remember when I first saw a photo of u I was quite surprised those thoughtful and mature posts come from such a young person

It comes across as arrogant but it's true, especially in primary school. I think I'm one of those people that have always been smart. I turned down Mensa (not bragging, just stating facts )

[CrazyCrazy]

No modesty but you don't sound arrogant, I like it.

[marcsi]

No modesty but you don't sound arrogant, I like it.

+1

[ThaInfo1]

It's not about incomes and being able to provide for a child. It's so much deeper than that. We can get into a conversation about duality and the necessity of masculine and feminine in the Universe but your body isn't ready.

I do believe that two parents are better than one, but a good mother and a good father is certainly optimal compared to a good father and a good father.

Can't say I disagree with this (especially for boys who don't have fathers ). But I still think that having two (gay parents) are better than just having a single parent household.

[TheRealest]

Gender does matter when it comes to raising a child. And children need a mother and a father.

I agree.

[Titan3510]

So much shade is being thrown around on here...

I guess I better put my Ray Bans on.