and others
Dire straits brothers in arms : 1,096,295
Bon jovi crossroads : 3,604,254
Fleetwood Mac Rumours : 2,506,021
Pearl Jam Ten : 9,305,723
SoundScan Era - USA's Best Selling Artists and Albums
Moderators:
by john2000 » Sat May 14, 2005 12:57 am
...
Queen Made in heaven : 254,747
Eric Clapton Unplugged : 7,444,404
Eagles Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 : 4,852,599
The Cranberries No Need To Argue : 4,137,015
Queen Innuendo : 461,539
Queen Platinum Collection : 367,432
Queen Made in heaven : 254,747
Eric Clapton Unplugged : 7,444,404
Eagles Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 : 4,852,599
The Cranberries No Need To Argue : 4,137,015
Queen Innuendo : 461,539
Queen Platinum Collection : 367,432
-
john2000 - Manager
- Posts: 1183
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004
by Basil » Sat May 14, 2005 6:03 pm
[quote="john2000"]Some new soundscan datas
Thanks a million John.
The Dire Straits and Phil Collins were brand new figures to me.
That Queen Greatest - We Will Rock You. Is the track listing the same as Greatest Hits? Is it some kind of remaster? Just wondering if it would be appropriate to add the totals.
Now I'm going to be very fussy. Do have dates for these figures - even approximate?
I shall use these figures in both threads when I next update.
Still on the Most Wanted List are
Eagles - Hotel California
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Anyway, thanks again.
Basil
Thanks a million John.
The Dire Straits and Phil Collins were brand new figures to me.
That Queen Greatest - We Will Rock You. Is the track listing the same as Greatest Hits? Is it some kind of remaster? Just wondering if it would be appropriate to add the totals.
Now I'm going to be very fussy. Do have dates for these figures - even approximate?
I shall use these figures in both threads when I next update.
Still on the Most Wanted List are
Eagles - Hotel California
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Anyway, thanks again.
Basil
-
Basil - Manager
- Posts: 2760
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004
- Location: Wessex
by Hanboo » Sun May 15, 2005 1:24 pm
Here's an article, I received today, about the first years of Soundscan: who invented it and how they sold it to the music industry.
It's quite lengthy, but it's very interesting.
It was published in the Los Angeles Times on December 8, 1991. The author is Chuck Philips.
I've got all Billboard issues from that period, but I never read all the details that are in this piece.
Enjoy!
Rock 'n' Roll Revolutionaries SoundScan's Mike Shalett and Mike Fine have shaken up the record industry with a radical concept: accurate sales figures
What do these people have in common?
Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry.
John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix.
Prince and Madonna.
As you roll through the decades of rock, it's not hard to identify the real revolutionaries in the music business.
Now add the names Mike Shalett and Mike Fine.
Shalett and Fine?
These two marketing analysts from New York can't carry a tune, but their SoundScan company has turned the music industry on its ear in the last six months by bringing a "shocking" new element to the weekly sales charts: accuracy.
For the last 30 years, Billboard magazine, the nation's leading pop trade publication, relied on record store employee estimates as the basis for its weekly album charts. The problem is those estimates were open to manipulation and error.
Record companies, eager to hype their latest product, often found ways to influence employee estimates. At the same time, many of the employees took the Billboard chart divisions too literally. They reported, say, country and R&B sales only on the country and R&B charts-instead of also including them on the wider and more influential pop charts.
SoundScan's system takes the human element out of the loop by using a computerized system that registers a sale every time an album is passed through the bar code scanner at a check-out stand. The company tracks an estimated 5 million transactions per week in about 9,000 retail outlets-more than 50% of the records sold in the United States. The data is transmitted to SoundScan's offices and tabulated each week and then sold to music industry businesses.
The new system has resulted in some remarkable changes in the pop charts-and produced some eye-opening data for record company executives, radio programmers and concert promoters, all of whom rely on the charts to help them determine which acts to push.
Among the most dramatic discoveries since SoundScan was instituted: There is far more fan support around the country for non-mainstream acts-including country sensation Garth Brooks, gangsta rappers N.W.A and various metal bands-than was believed in the industry previously.
Given this information, the ultimate result of SoundScan may well be a dramatic change in what records we hear on the radio and even what acts are signed by record companies.
Jimmy Bowen, president of Capitol Records' Nashville operation, believes the SoundScan information is giving record companies and radio programmers a truer picture than ever about what kind of music American consumers want to buy.
"SoundScan is the best thing that's happened to the music business in 37 years," he says. "The real statistics that these two guys give the industry have completely overhauled America's perception of what a pop hit is."
In designing SoundScan, Fine and Shalett felt their raw data, which tracks the sales of hundreds of albums on a city-by-city basis, would be so invaluable to record companies-who used to have to literally guess at what their records were selling each week-that the firms would pay big bucks for the information.
And sure enough, the men signed contracts last summer with three of the nation's largest record distributors-Sony Music Distribution, Bertelsmann Music Group and PolyGram Group Distribution-to supply this data. The price tag for each company: about $800,000 per year.
Though the remaining major companies were quite outspoken in their opposition to this new computerized system, all three-CEMA (which markets Capitol and EMI Records), MCA (MCA and Geffen) and WEA (Warner Bros., Elektra, Atlantic and Virgin)-will reportedly sign similar deals within the next two months.
And Fine and Shalett are now going beyond the record companies to sign up other subscribers.
* Radio: SoundScan signed an agreement in October with ABC Radio Networks to distribute regional weekly chart rankings of the top-selling singles and albums to more than 1,500 of the nation's 10,000 radio stations. Jeff Pollack, chief executive of the Los Angeles-based Pollack Media Group, a leading worldwide radio consulting firm, thinks the ABC pact may be reflected in changes in what is played on the air.
"These guys have managed to put the credibility back into retail sales numbers and as a result, programmers are being forced to pay attention to Nirvana and other unknown bands that are proven sellers," he said.
* Concerts: Last month, 12 of the nation's largest concert promoters signed contracts with SoundScan to obtain regional sales figures on the top-selling acts in the markets where they put on shows. Cost: about $5,000 a year per company. Brian Murphy, president of Los Angeles-based Avalon Attractions, believes that SoundScan's precise sales data gives promoters an edge in negotiating fees with touring acts.
"I now have the ability to make decisions based on how an artist's album is selling this week, not what he was selling the last time he went on tour," says Murphy, whose company produces about 350 major concerts a year on the West Coast. "I believe SoundScan may have the potential to change the entire ballgame."
* Talent: Several major artists' managers, including the New York-based McGhee Entertainment and C-Prime, have jumped on the SoundScan bandwagon too. Such talent agencies as William Morris have also recently expressed interest, as has Dick Clark, who just signed a deal with Shalett and Fine to help determine nominees for the 19th annual American Music Awards, scheduled to be broadcast Jan. 27 on ABC-TV.
"The numbers don't lie," Capitol's Bowen says. "Take country music for instance. Garth's domination of the pop charts is changing the status of country in the industry as a whole. All of a sudden, all these pop music record executives see Garth sitting on top of the charts ahead of Prince and Mellencamp for eight weeks straight and they're saying to themselves, `Hey, I got to get me a guy like that.' "
This might be the year of SoundScan, but the idea of more comprehensive sales information began brewing in Mike Shalett's mind at least four years ago.
As a radio programmer and record company promotion man in the '70s and early '80s, Shalett was fascinated by the charts-and how important they were in all facets of the record business.
Realizing the pitfalls in old charts, Shalett, 39, joined Fine, 48, a research analyst, in 1987 to form Sound Data, a marketing service that would provide insights into the buying habits of Americans. All of the major record companies and MTV subscribed to the system which told them such things as, say, the average age and sex of a Van Halen buyer.
The two men began discusing the idea for a computerized sales data system with record manufacturers and retailers in the fall of 1989.
"The TV and movie and clothing and grocery industries have taken this kind of information for granted for years," says Fine, the president of a 60-year-old research firm that has conducted presidential election polls for CBS-TV for more than two decades. "We realized that there had never been an accurate method in the music business to track actual sales and we figured the time was ripe for change."
In October, 1990, Shalett and Fine presented a plan to the record labels, offering to provide the industry with an exclusive computerized management system, but the labels balked at SoundScan's hefty $7-million industrywide price tag. In an effort to encourage companies to subscribe, Shalett and Fine offered to provide the service free for a trial period.
SoundScan signed a deal with Billboard in March to license chart information to the trade journal for an undisclosed fee. After Billboard introduced the revamped pop album chart in May, SoundScan met with officials at the six major distributors and reduced the price of their service to less than $5 million.
But since its inception, critics of SoundScan have complained that the sales data provided has been over-priced and inaccurate. Because the figures sampled come almost exclusively from major retail chains and discount stores, companies that typically stock only proven sellers, critics say that albums by new and alternative pop artists-typically carried at independent record dealers-are being excluded from the tally.
Fine and Shalett acknowledged from the beginning that SoundScan's weak link was its lack of mom and pop stores reporting to the system. To address the problem, they have nearly quadrupled the number of independent retailers reporting from 35 to 123. The firm has also recently signed a deal with Young Systems and Data General to provide data from an additional 270 mom and pop stores by 1993.
Last May MCA Records President Richard Palmese was one of SoundScan's harshest critics. But Palmese-who trashed the system in May for being "flawed and outrageously priced"-now says his company is prepared to sign on.
"I caved in," Palmese says. "They are still asking more money than I want to pay, but I must admit they have addressed many of my concerns in the past six months. Plus, the fact is that all my competitors will have access to these numbers before the turn of the year and I can't be left out in the cold."
It's almost funny, some record officials admit now, just how the companies used to try to determine sales. "We'd ship 'em out and what didn't come back, we counted as sales," one insider said. "The problem is it took months sometimes for the returns to start coming in and we often got caught up in our own hype. We thought all those records out there were selling."
One industry bubble that was quickly burst by SoundScan was the idea that all No. 1 albums are equal.
Once the initial upset over their new Billboard methodology subsided, executives, managers, radio programmers and concert promoters began to see that the real number to watch was no longer No. 1, but the actual number of copies an artist sells during the week.
Whereas some mid-level acts such as Skid Row may creep into the No. 1 spot by selling 100,000 during a slow sales week, superstars such as Metallica and Guns N' Roses can explode onto the charts with sales exceeding 600,000 in a week.
Epic Records' multimillion-dollar campaign to promote Michael Jackson's new "Dangerous" album succeeded in capturing the No. 1 position this week but actual sales for the album during its first week in the stores was only 326,500.
One of the biggest complaints about SoundScan in May was that the system would damage the careers of new and developing artists. But the subsequent chart success of such non-mainstream artists as Brooks, Ice Cube, N.W.A and Motley Crue has silenced most critics.
In fact, officials at successful independent record labels such as Tommy Boy and Priority Records are some of SoundScan's biggest cheerleaders.
Tom Silverman, chairman of New York-based Tommy Boy Records, whose roster includes such rap stars as Naughty by Nature and Digital Underground, says SoundScan has become an integral tool at his company for initiating local artist development programs, compiling tour support and depicting and tracking local sales trends.
"Even though 20% of our sales come from mom and pop stores that don't report to SoundScan, I am a major fan of this system," Silverman says. "It did away with all that mysterious major record label hype. That's history now. SoundScan allows independent companies like ours a chance to compete on a level playing field with the big guys."
Silverman believes SoundScan data is indispensable not only because it allows him to target advertising campaigns in the territories where rap sells strongest, but because he thinks it will prove to be a powerful weapon in negotiating contracts with artists.
"Now when an artist's manager comes to me and says, `Hey, I could sell more records on a major label, I can show them the numbers and prove it isn't true," Silverman says. "SoundScan has deflated all the hype. Now, when an artist on a small independent company like ours outsells somebody on Sony or Warner Brothers, everybody has the numbers."
Cliff Burnstein, who with Peter Mensch co-manages Metallica and Def Leppard, believes the system also helps new non-charting artists because it provides management companies with data to pinpoint each transaction as it transpires across the nation. He recently used such sales data to entice MTV to increase video rotation for one of his new acts, the Queens, N.Y.-based White Trash.
"The figures allowed us to show MTV the size and loyalty of White Trash's audience," Burnstein says. "Even though they never registered on the charts, national sales of their record rose from 450 to 500 to 1,000 to 2,000 and we could prove it."
Promotion men at several major labels have begun to use SoundScan sales reports to persuade radio programmers to add new records to their playlist.
"We don't have to waste our breath any more trying to convince the guy that this is a hot band," says Rick Bleiweiss, senior vice president of sales and distribution at Arista Records. "The SoundScan data enables us to say, `Here it is, check it out, look at these figures. People in this part of town who listen to your station are buying this record.' "
Not only are the major labels beginning to circulate SoundScan figures to the heads of promotion and marketing departments to enable them to tune into sales and airplay trends, but some officials predict that manufacturers may soon be able to use the information to reduce record inventory and save the recession-pinched industry millions of dollars a year.
SoundScan's Fine and Shalett say they're delighted with the industry's acceptance of the system.
"We believe that SoundScan has brought the consumer and the record company much closer," Shalett says. "When 1.3 million Guns N' Roses fans come out in force to buy a new album, it says something to the industry. When Garth Brooks sells 150,000 copies a week for two months, you can hear the fans talking. Our system reflects the voice of the consumer and I think the industry is finally beginning to listen."
It's quite lengthy, but it's very interesting.
It was published in the Los Angeles Times on December 8, 1991. The author is Chuck Philips.
I've got all Billboard issues from that period, but I never read all the details that are in this piece.
Enjoy!
Rock 'n' Roll Revolutionaries SoundScan's Mike Shalett and Mike Fine have shaken up the record industry with a radical concept: accurate sales figures
What do these people have in common?
Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry.
John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix.
Prince and Madonna.
As you roll through the decades of rock, it's not hard to identify the real revolutionaries in the music business.
Now add the names Mike Shalett and Mike Fine.
Shalett and Fine?
These two marketing analysts from New York can't carry a tune, but their SoundScan company has turned the music industry on its ear in the last six months by bringing a "shocking" new element to the weekly sales charts: accuracy.
For the last 30 years, Billboard magazine, the nation's leading pop trade publication, relied on record store employee estimates as the basis for its weekly album charts. The problem is those estimates were open to manipulation and error.
Record companies, eager to hype their latest product, often found ways to influence employee estimates. At the same time, many of the employees took the Billboard chart divisions too literally. They reported, say, country and R&B sales only on the country and R&B charts-instead of also including them on the wider and more influential pop charts.
SoundScan's system takes the human element out of the loop by using a computerized system that registers a sale every time an album is passed through the bar code scanner at a check-out stand. The company tracks an estimated 5 million transactions per week in about 9,000 retail outlets-more than 50% of the records sold in the United States. The data is transmitted to SoundScan's offices and tabulated each week and then sold to music industry businesses.
The new system has resulted in some remarkable changes in the pop charts-and produced some eye-opening data for record company executives, radio programmers and concert promoters, all of whom rely on the charts to help them determine which acts to push.
Among the most dramatic discoveries since SoundScan was instituted: There is far more fan support around the country for non-mainstream acts-including country sensation Garth Brooks, gangsta rappers N.W.A and various metal bands-than was believed in the industry previously.
Given this information, the ultimate result of SoundScan may well be a dramatic change in what records we hear on the radio and even what acts are signed by record companies.
Jimmy Bowen, president of Capitol Records' Nashville operation, believes the SoundScan information is giving record companies and radio programmers a truer picture than ever about what kind of music American consumers want to buy.
"SoundScan is the best thing that's happened to the music business in 37 years," he says. "The real statistics that these two guys give the industry have completely overhauled America's perception of what a pop hit is."
In designing SoundScan, Fine and Shalett felt their raw data, which tracks the sales of hundreds of albums on a city-by-city basis, would be so invaluable to record companies-who used to have to literally guess at what their records were selling each week-that the firms would pay big bucks for the information.
And sure enough, the men signed contracts last summer with three of the nation's largest record distributors-Sony Music Distribution, Bertelsmann Music Group and PolyGram Group Distribution-to supply this data. The price tag for each company: about $800,000 per year.
Though the remaining major companies were quite outspoken in their opposition to this new computerized system, all three-CEMA (which markets Capitol and EMI Records), MCA (MCA and Geffen) and WEA (Warner Bros., Elektra, Atlantic and Virgin)-will reportedly sign similar deals within the next two months.
And Fine and Shalett are now going beyond the record companies to sign up other subscribers.
* Radio: SoundScan signed an agreement in October with ABC Radio Networks to distribute regional weekly chart rankings of the top-selling singles and albums to more than 1,500 of the nation's 10,000 radio stations. Jeff Pollack, chief executive of the Los Angeles-based Pollack Media Group, a leading worldwide radio consulting firm, thinks the ABC pact may be reflected in changes in what is played on the air.
"These guys have managed to put the credibility back into retail sales numbers and as a result, programmers are being forced to pay attention to Nirvana and other unknown bands that are proven sellers," he said.
* Concerts: Last month, 12 of the nation's largest concert promoters signed contracts with SoundScan to obtain regional sales figures on the top-selling acts in the markets where they put on shows. Cost: about $5,000 a year per company. Brian Murphy, president of Los Angeles-based Avalon Attractions, believes that SoundScan's precise sales data gives promoters an edge in negotiating fees with touring acts.
"I now have the ability to make decisions based on how an artist's album is selling this week, not what he was selling the last time he went on tour," says Murphy, whose company produces about 350 major concerts a year on the West Coast. "I believe SoundScan may have the potential to change the entire ballgame."
* Talent: Several major artists' managers, including the New York-based McGhee Entertainment and C-Prime, have jumped on the SoundScan bandwagon too. Such talent agencies as William Morris have also recently expressed interest, as has Dick Clark, who just signed a deal with Shalett and Fine to help determine nominees for the 19th annual American Music Awards, scheduled to be broadcast Jan. 27 on ABC-TV.
"The numbers don't lie," Capitol's Bowen says. "Take country music for instance. Garth's domination of the pop charts is changing the status of country in the industry as a whole. All of a sudden, all these pop music record executives see Garth sitting on top of the charts ahead of Prince and Mellencamp for eight weeks straight and they're saying to themselves, `Hey, I got to get me a guy like that.' "
This might be the year of SoundScan, but the idea of more comprehensive sales information began brewing in Mike Shalett's mind at least four years ago.
As a radio programmer and record company promotion man in the '70s and early '80s, Shalett was fascinated by the charts-and how important they were in all facets of the record business.
Realizing the pitfalls in old charts, Shalett, 39, joined Fine, 48, a research analyst, in 1987 to form Sound Data, a marketing service that would provide insights into the buying habits of Americans. All of the major record companies and MTV subscribed to the system which told them such things as, say, the average age and sex of a Van Halen buyer.
The two men began discusing the idea for a computerized sales data system with record manufacturers and retailers in the fall of 1989.
"The TV and movie and clothing and grocery industries have taken this kind of information for granted for years," says Fine, the president of a 60-year-old research firm that has conducted presidential election polls for CBS-TV for more than two decades. "We realized that there had never been an accurate method in the music business to track actual sales and we figured the time was ripe for change."
In October, 1990, Shalett and Fine presented a plan to the record labels, offering to provide the industry with an exclusive computerized management system, but the labels balked at SoundScan's hefty $7-million industrywide price tag. In an effort to encourage companies to subscribe, Shalett and Fine offered to provide the service free for a trial period.
SoundScan signed a deal with Billboard in March to license chart information to the trade journal for an undisclosed fee. After Billboard introduced the revamped pop album chart in May, SoundScan met with officials at the six major distributors and reduced the price of their service to less than $5 million.
But since its inception, critics of SoundScan have complained that the sales data provided has been over-priced and inaccurate. Because the figures sampled come almost exclusively from major retail chains and discount stores, companies that typically stock only proven sellers, critics say that albums by new and alternative pop artists-typically carried at independent record dealers-are being excluded from the tally.
Fine and Shalett acknowledged from the beginning that SoundScan's weak link was its lack of mom and pop stores reporting to the system. To address the problem, they have nearly quadrupled the number of independent retailers reporting from 35 to 123. The firm has also recently signed a deal with Young Systems and Data General to provide data from an additional 270 mom and pop stores by 1993.
Last May MCA Records President Richard Palmese was one of SoundScan's harshest critics. But Palmese-who trashed the system in May for being "flawed and outrageously priced"-now says his company is prepared to sign on.
"I caved in," Palmese says. "They are still asking more money than I want to pay, but I must admit they have addressed many of my concerns in the past six months. Plus, the fact is that all my competitors will have access to these numbers before the turn of the year and I can't be left out in the cold."
It's almost funny, some record officials admit now, just how the companies used to try to determine sales. "We'd ship 'em out and what didn't come back, we counted as sales," one insider said. "The problem is it took months sometimes for the returns to start coming in and we often got caught up in our own hype. We thought all those records out there were selling."
One industry bubble that was quickly burst by SoundScan was the idea that all No. 1 albums are equal.
Once the initial upset over their new Billboard methodology subsided, executives, managers, radio programmers and concert promoters began to see that the real number to watch was no longer No. 1, but the actual number of copies an artist sells during the week.
Whereas some mid-level acts such as Skid Row may creep into the No. 1 spot by selling 100,000 during a slow sales week, superstars such as Metallica and Guns N' Roses can explode onto the charts with sales exceeding 600,000 in a week.
Epic Records' multimillion-dollar campaign to promote Michael Jackson's new "Dangerous" album succeeded in capturing the No. 1 position this week but actual sales for the album during its first week in the stores was only 326,500.
One of the biggest complaints about SoundScan in May was that the system would damage the careers of new and developing artists. But the subsequent chart success of such non-mainstream artists as Brooks, Ice Cube, N.W.A and Motley Crue has silenced most critics.
In fact, officials at successful independent record labels such as Tommy Boy and Priority Records are some of SoundScan's biggest cheerleaders.
Tom Silverman, chairman of New York-based Tommy Boy Records, whose roster includes such rap stars as Naughty by Nature and Digital Underground, says SoundScan has become an integral tool at his company for initiating local artist development programs, compiling tour support and depicting and tracking local sales trends.
"Even though 20% of our sales come from mom and pop stores that don't report to SoundScan, I am a major fan of this system," Silverman says. "It did away with all that mysterious major record label hype. That's history now. SoundScan allows independent companies like ours a chance to compete on a level playing field with the big guys."
Silverman believes SoundScan data is indispensable not only because it allows him to target advertising campaigns in the territories where rap sells strongest, but because he thinks it will prove to be a powerful weapon in negotiating contracts with artists.
"Now when an artist's manager comes to me and says, `Hey, I could sell more records on a major label, I can show them the numbers and prove it isn't true," Silverman says. "SoundScan has deflated all the hype. Now, when an artist on a small independent company like ours outsells somebody on Sony or Warner Brothers, everybody has the numbers."
Cliff Burnstein, who with Peter Mensch co-manages Metallica and Def Leppard, believes the system also helps new non-charting artists because it provides management companies with data to pinpoint each transaction as it transpires across the nation. He recently used such sales data to entice MTV to increase video rotation for one of his new acts, the Queens, N.Y.-based White Trash.
"The figures allowed us to show MTV the size and loyalty of White Trash's audience," Burnstein says. "Even though they never registered on the charts, national sales of their record rose from 450 to 500 to 1,000 to 2,000 and we could prove it."
Promotion men at several major labels have begun to use SoundScan sales reports to persuade radio programmers to add new records to their playlist.
"We don't have to waste our breath any more trying to convince the guy that this is a hot band," says Rick Bleiweiss, senior vice president of sales and distribution at Arista Records. "The SoundScan data enables us to say, `Here it is, check it out, look at these figures. People in this part of town who listen to your station are buying this record.' "
Not only are the major labels beginning to circulate SoundScan figures to the heads of promotion and marketing departments to enable them to tune into sales and airplay trends, but some officials predict that manufacturers may soon be able to use the information to reduce record inventory and save the recession-pinched industry millions of dollars a year.
SoundScan's Fine and Shalett say they're delighted with the industry's acceptance of the system.
"We believe that SoundScan has brought the consumer and the record company much closer," Shalett says. "When 1.3 million Guns N' Roses fans come out in force to buy a new album, it says something to the industry. When Garth Brooks sells 150,000 copies a week for two months, you can hear the fans talking. Our system reflects the voice of the consumer and I think the industry is finally beginning to listen."
-
Hanboo - Legend
- Posts: 11113
- Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003
- Location: Amsterdam, Holland
by Basil » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:58 pm
Many thanks Hanboo.
We take such stuff as Soundscan for granted now, it's amazing to think how weird the method for compiling the US album charts was prior to 1991.
In retrospect all US album charts pre-1991 must have been incredibly inaccurate. That's why I prefer sales data to chart data. The billboard chart is just a tool for the music industry. The old system was deliberately biased against catalogue titles, and the soundscan system is biased by simply removing them! That's why your weekly comprehensive chart is so valuable and relevant.
In contrast, at least the UK album chart has always been based on sales and doesn't exclude old titles. The downside of the chart since it started in the 1950's is that sometimes it included budget titles and sometimes not. For a long time it included an ever growing number of Various Artist albums before finally making a separate chart for them - a good idea. Then in the early 70's the chart was reduced to as little as 15 titles - hard luck for many bands of the time who never officially charted. Although only a reduced chart was published at this time, a longer one must surely have existed and must still do somewhere! None of the people who produce UK chart books seem to have found them. Maybe they are in the archives of the trade magazine Musicweek.
Finally, all the lists on this thread have just been updated with the latest soundscan figures and riaa certifications.
We take such stuff as Soundscan for granted now, it's amazing to think how weird the method for compiling the US album charts was prior to 1991.
In retrospect all US album charts pre-1991 must have been incredibly inaccurate. That's why I prefer sales data to chart data. The billboard chart is just a tool for the music industry. The old system was deliberately biased against catalogue titles, and the soundscan system is biased by simply removing them! That's why your weekly comprehensive chart is so valuable and relevant.
In contrast, at least the UK album chart has always been based on sales and doesn't exclude old titles. The downside of the chart since it started in the 1950's is that sometimes it included budget titles and sometimes not. For a long time it included an ever growing number of Various Artist albums before finally making a separate chart for them - a good idea. Then in the early 70's the chart was reduced to as little as 15 titles - hard luck for many bands of the time who never officially charted. Although only a reduced chart was published at this time, a longer one must surely have existed and must still do somewhere! None of the people who produce UK chart books seem to have found them. Maybe they are in the archives of the trade magazine Musicweek.
Finally, all the lists on this thread have just been updated with the latest soundscan figures and riaa certifications. -
Basil - Manager
- Posts: 2760
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004
- Location: Wessex
by saladtossing » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:57 am
Basil or anyone else can you breakdown Christina Aguilera sells for
Christina Aguilera
My Kind Of Christmas
Mi Reflejo
Stripped
Thanx it would be much appreciated!
Are these albums still selling or what! thanx
Christina Aguilera
My Kind Of Christmas
Mi Reflejo
Stripped
Thanx it would be much appreciated!
Are these albums still selling or what! thanx- saladtossing
- Manager
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005
by Basil » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:14 pm
According to Hanboo's figures, the Christina Aguilera album had soldsaladtossing wrote:Basil or anyone else can you breakdown Christina Aguilera sells for
Christina Aguilera
My Kind Of Christmas
Mi Reflejo
Stripped
Thanx it would be much appreciated!
8,031,000 to April 2004 and
8,100,000 to April 2005
Meaning it sold 69,000 in the past year.
My advice is to ask Hanboo on his latest US Chart Analysis thread. He is the most likely person to have sales of these albums.
-
Basil - Manager
- Posts: 2760
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004
- Location: Wessex
by AutomaticBR » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:11 pm
Does anyone have Soundscan figures for Marilyn Manson? 
I only know those:
Mechanical animals :: 223,000 (1st week) 455,000 (total)
Golden age of grostesque :: 118,000 (1st week)
Holy wood (In the shadow of the Valley of death) :: 117,000 (1st week) 443,000 (total)
Lest we forget: The Best of :: 80,000 (1st week)
"Holy wood" and "Portrait of an american family" were certified GOLD, while "Smells like children", "Antichrist superstar" and "Mechanical animals" were certified PLATINUM.
I only know those:
Mechanical animals :: 223,000 (1st week) 455,000 (total)
Golden age of grostesque :: 118,000 (1st week)
Holy wood (In the shadow of the Valley of death) :: 117,000 (1st week) 443,000 (total)
Lest we forget: The Best of :: 80,000 (1st week)
"Holy wood" and "Portrait of an american family" were certified GOLD, while "Smells like children", "Antichrist superstar" and "Mechanical animals" were certified PLATINUM.
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by saladtossing » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:35 am
thanx Basil i'll take your advice! 
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by Basil » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:23 pm
Hi AutomaticAutomaticBR wrote:Does anyone have Soundscan figures for Marilyn Manson?
I only know those:
Mechanical animals :: 223,000 (1st week) 455,000 (total)
Golden age of grostesque :: 118,000 (1st week)
Holy wood (In the shadow of the Valley of death) :: 117,000 (1st week) 443,000 (total)
Lest we forget: The Best of :: 80,000 (1st week)
"Holy wood" and "Portrait of an american family" were certified GOLD, while "Smells like children", "Antichrist superstar" and "Mechanical animals" were certified PLATINUM.
I've just three old figures from the metalsludge site that hasn't posted any new figures for ages
Golden Age Of Grotesque - 385,572 dec 2003
Last Tour on Earth - 315,901 jan 2004
Lest We Forget - 418,753 feb 2005
Hope this is of some help. Hanboo probably has more.
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by AutomaticBR » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:58 pm
Actually, I typed wrong lol
Mechanical animals :: 223,000 (1st week)
Golden age of grostesque :: 118,000 (1st week) 455,000 (total)
Holy wood (In the shadow of the Valley of death) :: 117,000 (1st week) 443,000 (total)
Lest we forget: The Best of :: 80,000 (1st week)
Now it's correct
those I got from old Billboard News, just searched on Google.
Thanks for the figures on "Last tour on earth" and the Best of
Mechanical animals :: 223,000 (1st week)
Golden age of grostesque :: 118,000 (1st week) 455,000 (total)
Holy wood (In the shadow of the Valley of death) :: 117,000 (1st week) 443,000 (total)
Lest we forget: The Best of :: 80,000 (1st week)
Now it's correct
those I got from old Billboard News, just searched on Google.
Thanks for the figures on "Last tour on earth" and the Best of
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by milanbaros » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:47 am
Does anyone have the sales for Green Day's albums and or Oasis albums (although I highly doubt they are in the soundscan era's biggest sellers).
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by MIGUEL » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:03 am
Oasismilanbaros wrote:Does anyone have the sales for Green Day's albums and or Oasis albums (although I highly doubt they are in the soundscan era's biggest sellers).
Definitely Maybe 750.000 (certified 1M)
What´s the story 3.600.000 (certified 4M)
Be here now 991.000 (certified 1M)
Heathen Chemistry 143.000
Don´t believe the truth 65.900
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by nelson » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:36 pm
Tim McGraw's sales:
NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON 5913175
GREATEST HITS 4637781
EVERYWHERE 4464587
PLACE IN THE SUN 3333757
LIVE LIKE YOU WERE DYING 3310713
TIM MCGRAW & THE DANCEHALL DOC 3106398
ALL I WANT 2819824
SET THIS CIRCUS DOWN 2529428
TIM MCGRAW 404632
Tota: 30,520,295
NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON 5913175
GREATEST HITS 4637781
EVERYWHERE 4464587
PLACE IN THE SUN 3333757
LIVE LIKE YOU WERE DYING 3310713
TIM MCGRAW & THE DANCEHALL DOC 3106398
ALL I WANT 2819824
SET THIS CIRCUS DOWN 2529428
TIM MCGRAW 404632
Tota: 30,520,295
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by Doves » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:51 pm
alsoMIGUEL wrote:Oasismilanbaros wrote:Does anyone have the sales for Green Day's albums and or Oasis albums (although I highly doubt they are in the soundscan era's biggest sellers).
Definitely Maybe 750.000 (certified 1M)
What´s the story 3.600.000 (certified 4M)
Be here now 991.000 (certified 1M)
Heathen Chemistry 143.000
Don´t believe the truth 65.900
standing on the shoulder of giants 202,000
I'm mad fer it!
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by Basil » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:48 pm
Hanboo, have just re-read this article you posted. According the the metalsludge site, some of the soundscan sales are "weighted" to allow for those stores not covered. If so, this is really interesting. By now coverage is over 95% of retail sales and so it is less relevant.Hanboo wrote:
But since its inception, critics of SoundScan have complained that the sales data provided has been over-priced and inaccurate. Because the figures sampled come almost exclusively from major retail chains and discount stores, companies that typically stock only proven sellers, critics say that albums by new and alternative pop artists-typically carried at independent record dealers-are being excluded from the tally.
Fine and Shalett acknowledged from the beginning that SoundScan's weak link was its lack of mom and pop stores reporting to the system. To address the problem, they have nearly quadrupled the number of independent retailers reporting from 35 to 123. The firm has also recently signed a deal with Young Systems and Data General to provide data from an additional 270 mom and pop stores by 1993.
However if we are considering figures since the start of soundscan in 1991 maybe some of the totals are not exact. If say an album has sold 4,500,000 since 1991, is that 4,500,000 actually scanned, or is it a composite figure made up of real scans and estimated numbers to reflect the less than 100% coverage?
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by Basil » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:55 pm
Hi Nelson, I've only just noticed these. Excellent, many thanks. I'm pleased they are close to my estimate of 31m.nelson wrote:Tim McGraw's sales:
Tota: 30,520,295
I don't think the guy has sold a bean in the UK, though!
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by Basil » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:02 pm
Just found another total catalogue sale.
Megadeth
Killing is my business - 244,260
Peace Sells - 600,095
So Far So Good - 382246
Rust in Peace - 767,451
Countdown - 2,250,865
Youthanasia - 928637
Cryptic Writings - 781,412
Risk - 318,853
World Need a Hero - 216,771
Rude Awakening - 71,704
System Has Failed - 149,807
Hidden Treasures - 286,031
Capitol Punishment - 199,802
Still Alive - 24,873
Total 7,222,807 at March 31st 2005
Megadeth
Killing is my business - 244,260
Peace Sells - 600,095
So Far So Good - 382246
Rust in Peace - 767,451
Countdown - 2,250,865
Youthanasia - 928637
Cryptic Writings - 781,412
Risk - 318,853
World Need a Hero - 216,771
Rude Awakening - 71,704
System Has Failed - 149,807
Hidden Treasures - 286,031
Capitol Punishment - 199,802
Still Alive - 24,873
Total 7,222,807 at March 31st 2005
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by MJDangerous » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:28 pm
Michael Jackson = 17.7M (look to his thread).
Madonna = 22.8M (good estimate).
Madonna = 22.8M (good estimate).
25 June 2009, the day the Music died
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by Basil » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:43 pm
I saw these figures a couple of weeks ago.MJDangerous wrote:Michael Jackson = 17.7M (look to his thread).
Madonna = 22.8M (good estimate).
The Madonna one does not fit. I have two previous totals from soundscan
23.9m dec 2003
24.2m jul 2004
So 22.8m is too low.
Billboard Magazine does make mistakes.
Another one was in march this year. They gave Whitney Houston's total as 17.4m. The actual figure is about 22.9 just by adding up sales of her albums.
The Michael Jackson figure looks OK, though!
I've just posted Green Day's figures on another thread from Billboard
1990 - 1039/Smoothed Out - 55,000
1991 - Kerplunk - 680,000
1994 - Dookie - 7,500,000
1995 - Insomniac - 1,900,000
1997 - Nimrod - 1,900,000
2000 - Warning - 1,000,000
2001 - International Super Hits - 1,200,000
2002 - Shenanigans - 183,000
2004 - American Idiot - 3,600,000
They are rounded up figures, but I can now include them on the chart on Page one with 18 million soundscan sales.
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by Hanboo » Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:04 am
IMO it's the latter.Basil wrote:Hanboo, have just re-read this article you posted. According the the metalsludge site, some of the soundscan sales are "weighted" to allow for those stores not covered. If so, this is really interesting. By now coverage is over 95% of retail sales and so it is less relevant.Hanboo wrote:
But since its inception, critics of SoundScan have complained that the sales data provided has been over-priced and inaccurate. Because the figures sampled come almost exclusively from major retail chains and discount stores, companies that typically stock only proven sellers, critics say that albums by new and alternative pop artists-typically carried at independent record dealers-are being excluded from the tally.
Fine and Shalett acknowledged from the beginning that SoundScan's weak link was its lack of mom and pop stores reporting to the system. To address the problem, they have nearly quadrupled the number of independent retailers reporting from 35 to 123. The firm has also recently signed a deal with Young Systems and Data General to provide data from an additional 270 mom and pop stores by 1993.
However if we are considering figures since the start of soundscan in 1991 maybe some of the totals are not exact. If say an album has sold 4,500,000 since 1991, is that 4,500,000 actually scanned, or is it a composite figure made up of real scans and estimated numbers to reflect the less than 100% coverage?
The released Soundscan numbers are weighted, calculated, however very reliable estimates.
Sales of about 18,000 retail stores, mass retailers, Internet sites, mail order and concert venues in the US are tracked by SS. Each week the data is extrapolated (employing a statistical formula) using weighted samples to compensate for the non-SS stores.
Each retailer is given a weight. The biggest ones may weigh as heavily as 10 to 1 (meaning that for every one unit sold, it will count as 10 units sold), most have weights of 2 to 3, very few have 5 or more.
Only 650 of the 18,000 are independent stores (not part of big chains), so these weigh extra heavy in the SS formula.
My understanding is SS have done this from the beginning. In 1991, when SS started, the number of retailers was 9,000, which was only half of the market at that time.
As a result, the weighted part of the numbers was big, and not as reliable as today.
It also means that a big part of the sales numbers of all catalog albums released before 1991 are estimates.
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by evaorig » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:52 am
Hi, I'm new here and I have a soundscan artists question. Given how well R.Kelly sells, I was wondering why he wasn't listed in the top selling soundscan artists list of all time? I was wondering if a total breakdown of his scans could be listed? Thank you in advance.
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