Elvis Presley :: Charts & Sales History

[Basil]

Sagan and MJDangerous

You are both just scratching the surface. To get a true figure for Elvis shipments in the US, you must research every single one of his 400 US album releases individually. Until you do this you are only making guesses. Look at each date of release, at each date of certification, at the rules that applied at that date, at the format of the record at that date (2LP, 8LP, 3CD, 5CD 1CD whatever), at the format of each release at the date of certification. Some of the albums were special mail order releases and so on, so won't appear in the charts. And when you have worked through all 400 albums, you will arrive at a reasonable figure.

If you have not heard of any albums, look them up on Elvis discography sites. His catalogue is very complex with some albums having the same title but different tracks and release dates.

Do the research and you will find your figures.

[MJDangerous]

Sagan and MJDangerous

You are both just scratching the surface. To get a true figure for Elvis shipments in the US, you must research every single one of his 400 US album releases individually. Until you do this you are only making guesses. Look at each date of release, at each date of certification, at the rules that applied at that date, at the format of the record at that date (2LP, 8LP, 3CD, 5CD 1CD whatever), at the format of each release at the date of certification. Some of the albums were special mail order releases and so on, so won't appear in the charts. And when you have worked through all 400 albums, you will arrive at a reasonable figure.

If you have not heard of any albums, look them up on Elvis discography sites. His catalogue is very complex with some albums having the same title but different tracks and release dates.

Do the research and you will find your figures.

Do you don't think that it's easy to say "do a better research and you will find a better figures" ? I have look to Elvis figures more than one time, stop thinking that you are the only one to do "serious" researches. You say to look all his 400 albums (like you have do) to find a better figures, but can you say me with what miracle you have found your figure looking album by album ?
It's impossible to estimate like you say 400 albums with 300 of whom never enter in charts, with no certification for the major part and with no soundscan data ! You can do how many research that you want, you will never found a figure thus like you pretend.

[Cass]

Elvis is going to have a substantial increase in his RIAA total in the coming years.The president of the RIAA has stated that Elvis' audited sales are millions higher than his certified total because BMG did not want to certify all of them at once.Many of his double album releases have not been certified under the current multi disc rule and a couple that they have actually mentioned are the Aloha From Hawaii double album and the Elvis In Concert album.Did any of you hear about all of the sales files that were found last year?BMG has found alot of lost sales info on Elvis and they will start certifying the numbers after they get some of them organized.The lost sales files were found in a New York storage building that BMG has used for years and some say there is enough sales to end all questions about the all-time biggest selling act.There are already rumors that Elvis will receive a number of Diamond awards when they complete the audit of the lost sales.Is that 24.5 million Soundscan total updated?It seems to low because E1 and E2 have sold a combined total of about 4.7 million on the Soundscan chart and Elvis was around 18 million before they released those two albums and the rest of his catalog usually sells over a million a year,so I was figuring about 26 million.

[Cass]

Elvis is going to have a substantial increase in his RIAA total in the coming years.The president of the RIAA has stated that Elvis' audited sales are millions higher than his certified total because BMG did not want to certify all of them at once.Many of his double album releases have not been certified under the current multi disc rule and a couple that they have actually mentioned are the Aloha From Hawaii double album and the Elvis In Concert album.Did any of you hear about all of the sales files that were found last year?BMG has found alot of lost sales info on Elvis and they will start certifying the numbers after they get some of them organized.The lost sales files were found in a New York storage building that BMG has used for years and some say there is enough sales to end all questions about the all-time biggest selling act.There are already rumors that Elvis will receive a number of Diamond awards when they complete the audit of the lost sales.Is that 24.5 million Soundscan total updated?It seems to low because E1 and E2 have sold a combined total of about 4.7 million on the Soundscan chart and Elvis was around 18 million before they released those two albums and the rest of his catalog usually sells over a million a year,so I was figuring about 26 million.

[Basil]

Do you don't think that it's easy to say "do a better research and you will find a better figures" ?

Some people, like scientist and statisticians spend years and years researching subjects. Obviously they must be wasting their time. Surely they could just do it in a day and come up with some vague figures?

There's loads you could do. Research the riaa data to come up with a true shipping figure.

Research the discography to match the album titles to the certs and match the formats at the correct dates.

There are many articles on the net detailing the work of the RCA with the riaa that includes much information on sales figures.

It's a strange thing with research - the more you look, the more you find.

Otherwise, why bother to do any at all? Let's all stop this forum now, because research is a complete waste of time.

[Sagan]

Do the research and you will find your figures.

I've spent an hour doing just that (one hour more than most of us here) and posted it all in this thread.

You did it more thoroughly, I respect that, but why should I redo all that work? Why don't you present your findings here with all the details, so I can compare it with my own stuff (you obviously don't want to do that, you keep ignoring my questions about it).

This is an Elvis Sales thread, isn't it ?

[MJDangerous]

Do you don't think that it's easy to say "do a better research and you will find a better figures" ?

Some people, like scientist and statisticians spend years and years researching subjects. Obviously they must be wasting their time. Surely they could just do it in a day and come up with some vague figures?

There's loads you could do. Research the riaa data to come up with a true shipping figure.

Research the discography to match the album titles to the certs and match the formats at the correct dates.

There are many articles on the net detailing the work of the RCA with the riaa that includes much information on sales figures.

It's a strange thing with research - the more you look, the more you find.

Otherwise, why bother to do any at all? Let's all stop this forum now, because research is a complete waste of time.

Why you don't give any link ? Why you don't justify your numbers ? Why you don't give the list of his Double albums or Box set only for compare with Sagan ? etc etc...
Like Sagan says, this is an Elvis Sales thread, isn't it ?

[Herkenrath]

BMG has found alot of lost sales info on Elvis and they will start certifying the numbers after they get some of them organized.The lost sales files were found in a New York storage building that BMG has used for years and some say there is enough sales to end all questions about the all-time biggest selling act.There are already rumors that Elvis will receive a number of Diamond awards when they complete the audit of the lost sales.

I will believe it when I see it. This being BMG, it is probably all inflated. These lost sales documents were found a couple of years back and still nothing has changed. I think we will get to hear the same story still in ten years.

BMG are completely unreliable when it comes to Elvis sales. Just last year, at the back sleeve of a new Elvis compilation called "Ultimate Gospel", BMG stated that Elvis had sold "250 million GOSPEL albums in the U.S." - a completely ridiculous claim. BMG are a joke when it comes to statements regarding Elvis sales. People in the know are aware how inflated these figures are, but Elvis fans usually believe everything and the media doesn't doubt it, too, so they keep on releasing these way-over-the-top sales figures.

[Herkenrath]

Why don't you present your findings here with all the details, ...

That is a good suggestion. I don't doubt Basil's numbers for Elvis, I would just love to see the list of Elvis albums and the sales figures he attributed to them.

[Herkenrath]

Several sources report that more than 320 albums by Elvis have been released only in the USA. The number is probably higher, as the report s are not very recent and new Elvis albums are released almost every two months.

You are of course right about the unbelievable number of Elvis albums that have been released, but your comment regarding the fact that new Elvis albums are released almost every two months makes me think that you are addressing the so-called "Follow That Dream" releases, which are basically a limited collector's club series that at the highest sell 30,000 copies worldwide. Three new ones in that series have been released just this week!

[MJDangerous]

BMG has found alot of lost sales info on Elvis and they will start certifying the numbers after they get some of them organized.The lost sales files were found in a New York storage building that BMG has used for years and some say there is enough sales to end all questions about the all-time biggest selling act.There are already rumors that Elvis will receive a number of Diamond awards when they complete the audit of the lost sales.

I will believe it when I see it. This being BMG, it is probably all inflated. These lost sales documents were found a couple of years back and still nothing has changed. I think we will get to hear the same story still in ten years.

BMG are completely unreliable when it comes to Elvis sales. Just last year, at the back sleeve of a new Elvis compilation called "Ultimate Gospel", BMG stated that Elvis had sold "250 million GOSPEL albums in the U.S." - a completely ridiculous claim. BMG are a joke when it comes to statements regarding Elvis sales. People in the know are aware how inflated these figures are, but Elvis fans usually believe everything and the media doesn't doubt it, too, so they keep on releasing these way-over-the-top sales figures.

Yes, it's true. Sales of Elvis are inflated by BMG and many of his "fans" too who claim that he sold 500m albums, 600m etc... in USA only ( ).
They always are "liveliness to find" millions sales I don't know where
Many claim completely stupid numbers, like 14m for Moody Blue, a 2xPlatinum.

[Herkenrath]

One question :

Only one "Love Me Tender" album of Elvis enter in the charts (in 1957), an EP.
This EP go Platinum (500.000 in consequence) in 1992 with the mention "Soundtrack".

In 2004, an album "Love Me Tender" go Gold (500.000). It's the same (a mistake by the RIAA ?) or Elvis really release 2 albums called "Love Me Tender" ?

The first one was a so-called shortform album, i.e. an EP released in 1956.

The second one was a budget album release from 1987 (it was only released on cassette). It sold well enough over the years to get certified.

[Basil]

The president of the RIAA has stated that Elvis' audited sales are millions higher than his certified total because BMG did not want to certify all of them at once.Many of his double album releases have not been certified under the current multi disc rule

Thanks Cass for some interesting information.

BMG have been working with the riaa for several years now.

There are several long interviews with BMG Vice-Presidents that I've read on the net concerning this.
It hasn't all gone smoothly because BMG had provable sales on a number of titles, but riaa rules disqualified them. The riaa have many rules and they are listed on their website in different sections - however there are likely to be even more rules than this. They apply these rules rigidly and would not give in. They acknowledged the actual sales, but some technical issue (I don't know what) stopped the certification.

Anyway, the initial work of the team led to a mass of certifications in January 2004. Various figures were found for riaa inspection which is why some titles had a sudden rise in shipments.

It was mentioned by BMG at the time that sales from the whole of 1977 were missing. This was obviously the peak year for Elvis sales. I found it very surprising, but maybe these are some of the sales they have now found.

Sales from the distant past 50's/60's/70's aren't always actually "lost". Rather, they are sometimes very difficult and costly to retrieve. One storage method was micro-fish. This was the cool way to store lots of data before computers. Problem is, it is the very devil to then retrieve. A record company would have to spend the cash to go through them. This is a problem for an album like Pet Sounds. The label reckons this album has sold at least 2 million copies in the past 39 years. However around half these sales are stored on micro-fish and they estimate 3 months work to get at them.

Anyway, BMG seems determined to sort Elvis's sales and are no doubt spending the required cash to do it.
If what you say about the lost sales files is true, we may have some interesting riaa postings before long. At least we know BMG are working hard on it, and given how tough the riaa is, that the figures will be genuine shipments.

You mentioned double albums and such. The true shipment figures for all Elvis's double albums and box sets are listed at

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... 47&start=0

On pages one and four. Let me know what you think.

The soundscan figure of 24.5m possibly needs updating. I'm not sure about the 1m a year catalogue sales (excepting E1 and E2) as they have slipped a little in just the last 3 years or so in the US. Perhaps 25m is more realistic.

Keep us posted if you have any more info and perhaps some clues about when BMG might start getting some more certifications. We'll see how my estimate of 166m sales of all Elvis's albums in the US ever holds up (or falls down dead)!

Cheers - Basil

[Herkenrath]

Many strange things in Elvis certifications. An example :
"You'll Never Walk Alone" :
- Release date : 1971
- High Peak : #69
- Weeks on Charts : 12

It's only a studio album (no a greatest hits box) and non-the one of its better ones. This album go Gold in 1992, ok, Platinum in 1999, why not, but 3xPlatinum in 2004 ??

This album is a budget release on the Camden label (most of Elvis' albums during the early-70s were actually budget releases). These budget releases usually repackaged previously released movie songs of the 1960s, songs that were originally released on EPs only (which were by that time out of print) or non-issued songs from the vaults.

This album "You'll Never Walk Alone" however uses gospel songs and since there is quite a market in America for these releases, it kept on selling over the years, hence its rather good sales.

Other budget albums released by Camden or Pickwick (both RCA-sub-labels) during the late-60s and 1970s were:

-"Elvis Sings Flaming Star" (1969) #96 Billboard: features recordings from 1960 to 1968
-"Let's Be Friends" (1970) #105 BB: features recordings from 1962-69
-"Almost In Love" (1970) #65 BB: features recordings from 1966-69
-"C'mon Everybody" (1971) #70 BB: features recordings from 1961 to 1967
-"I Got Lucky" (1971) #104 BB: features recordings from 1961 to 1967
-"Elvis Sings Hits From His Movies, Vol. 1" (1972) #87 BB: features recordings from 1962 to 1968
-"Burning Love & Hits From His Movies, Vol. 2" (1972) #22 BB: features recordings from 1960 to 1967 plus Burning Love from 1972
-"Separate Ways" (1973) #46 BB: features recordings from 1957 to 1963 as well as Separate Ways and Always On My Mind from 1972

RCA released many more of these cheap budget compilation albums, but these are the only ones that charted.

[nelson]

It's good to have a Elvis fan like Herkenrath to speak about sales, give us a clear and details in explaining on Elvis' catalogs.

[Basil]

Why don't you present your findings here with all the details, so I can compare it with my own stuff

First I've already presented the work.

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... 47&start=0

The true shipment figures for every Elvis multi-disc set that had any sort of riaa certification is listed here on Page One (shipments 2.5m plus) and page Four (shipments below 2.5m). The thread exists as a resource for the forum to use.

Whilst I did most of the research on the thread, you will see that the forum as a whole helped greatly in improving the accuracy and sorting out the incredibly difficult task of sorting out all those multi-disc sets.

With this information you should quickly be able to calculate a true shipment total and hopefully it will be very close to 97.62m.

I ended up with a folder full of stuff on Elvis sales. I could spend many many hours posting it and all that's likely to happen is that it gets a quick glance and that's it. I've been caught out like that before, typing away through the night and ending up wasting my time.

If you can accept the 97.62 total, we can move on.

Here's some Info I haven't already posted regarding Elvis's riaa/chart figures.

Up until the end of 2003, Elvis had exactly 95 different albums that had entered the Billboard Top 200 albums chart. This excludes re-issues of previously charted titles.

Top 10 Albums

26 peaked in the Top 10 and 20 of these are certified - 77%

Albums peaking in positions 11-50

31 in total, of which 20 are certified - 65%

Albums peaking in positions 51-100

14 in total, of which 7 are certified - 50%

Albums peaking in positions 101-200

24 in total, of which 10 are certified - 42%

And then there are 24 certified titles which never charted at all - 30% of all his riaa awards (which total 81 different titles).

When I first did the artist total US sales list, I was forced to do Elvis otherwise the list would be meaningless. Unfortunately, I had no idea just how long it would take. Everything about his catalogue is different. But finally getting that 97m shipment figure gives a platform to build on. This is his actual audited shipment figure, so we actually know he shipped that number of albums.

The trick then (and what this thread should address) is to determine how many more albums he has sold in the US. The worldwide market is beyond my scope, but would probably be close to double whatever the US figure is.

Obviously he has sold more then 97m if he can have Top 10 albums that are uncertifed. How much though?

[Basil]

Why you don't give any link ? Why you don't justify your numbers ? Why you don't give the list of his Double albums or Box set only for compare with Sagan ? etc etc...
Like Sagan says, this is an Elvis Sales thread, isn't it ?

Better than a link.

Go to Google Advanced Search.

Type in

riaa Elvis BMG sales

You will get a series of articles detailing the work between the riaa and BMG. I recommend you read several of the articles as they all have a different bias. What is more important is the different information they contain about why certain sales were rejected, sales outside the riaa scope and different RCA totals that go back to 1963.

As I've pointed out to Sagan all my work on Elvis's multi-disc sales have been posted.

[Basil]

Why don't you present your findings here with all the details, ...

That is a good suggestion. I don't doubt Basil's numbers for Elvis, I would just love to see the list of Elvis albums and the sales figures he attributed to them.

Ah Herkenrath, did you not berate me on my USA sales thread that my figure of 166m all time Elvis sales was way way too low?

Did I not say then that I couldn't face going through it all again? The Elvis catalogue nearly put me in Therapy.

As I said to Sagan, I've been caught too many times spending hours preparing information, then posting it only to find it merits scarcely a glance. The full Elvis list would take several hours to prepare and several more to post. Basically it would take me a day and with a 6 day week job, I only get one of those a week. How many people are then actually going to use it? Most will just glance through it and move on.

[edge3]

Well, your work seems excellent to me Basil - thanks a million for providing such great info, it is much appreciated.

ps - i am now / still of the opinion that Elvis has sold about 400M albums + 200M singles worldwide. I agree that the 1 Billion figure must mainly be inflated record company hyperbole.

[MJDangerous]

Why you don't give any link ? Why you don't justify your numbers ? Why you don't give the list of his Double albums or Box set only for compare with Sagan ? etc etc...
Like Sagan says, this is an Elvis Sales thread, isn't it ?

Better than a link.

Go to Google Advanced Search.

Type in

riaa Elvis BMG sales

You will get a series of articles detailing the work between the riaa and BMG. I recommend you read several of the articles as they all have a different bias. What is more important is the different information they contain about why certain sales were rejected, sales outside the riaa scope and different RCA totals that go back to 1963.

As I've pointed out to Sagan all my work on Elvis's multi-disc sales have been posted.

Those articles are many times crap.

I take an example :

500 MILLION ELVIS FANS CAN T BE WRONG, OR CAN THEY???
by Tony Galvin (UK)

Besides the music if there is one area of Elvis’ career that fascinates me it is the question of how many records he has sold. This is a vexed subject with many fans and to question the holy grail of one billion sales is to open yourself up to accusations of blasphemy.

For many years now I, along with Brian Quinn & Kelvin Wilson, have been trying to shed light on this thorny issue and unfortunately just as many questions have been thrown up by our research as answers.


I would like to give you a quick rundown on what has come to light regarding the sales issue particularly in relation to Elvis US album sales, of which there are supposed to somewhere in the region of 600 million by all accounts.

This is my own opinion on the sales issue, Brian & Kelvin may have a completely different interpretation.

Firstly I sincerely want to believe that the figure (600 million US Sales) touted by BMG & the Estate is accurate and I set out with the intention of getting as close to this figure as possible.

Nigel Patterson who has worked very hard on this issue and is as good a fan as you could possibly get took a lot of flak when he simply pointed out that there did not seem to be enough hard data out there to back up the figure claimed and accepted by the Elvis world in general. His loyalty was questioned by some fans on internet forums because he wanted this claim backed up by factual evidence which in turn could be used to further enhance Elvis‘ credibility in the music world.

Nigel penned a fine article on this subject on the ELVIS INFORMATION NETWORK site and many valid points were made. I would like to put out in this article the US sales data that we feel is important and might help build a circumstantial case towards the 600 million figure but from what I've been able to come across the evidence is far from conclusive.

Basically the official story is that Elvis has sold one billion plus units worldwide which was first claimed as early as 1981. This is made up of 600 million US Sales and 400 million sales for the rest of the world. To back this up we essentially have the official RIAA sales certifications giving Elvis just under 120 million sales in the US.

Other than that all we seem to have is an article printed in the official Elvis site stating why BMG & the Estate feel Elvis has sold another 480 million albums in the US. Some of the points made were valid and I will look at them a little later but it was conjecture rather than solid fact. We are all aware of the sales claims for the year after Elvis died as well as the fact that there are many albums not covered by the RIAA certifications.

Many of you will also be aware of the RIAA method of counting which doesn’t allow for sales up to or between milestones. (for example sales up to 499,999 are not counted) This it must be said affects all artists but it is especially hard on Elvis due to the sheer number of album releases in his catalogue.They are some of the reasons why BMG would claim much higher sales for ELVIS but the question is just how many???

I would like to outline below the main facts that we uncovered relating to US sales. The sources we used were the usual suspects, Elvis magazines, BILLBOARD, CASHBOX, VARIETY, GOLDMINE, RCA/BMG press statements, RCA/BMG promotional trade leaflets, CD liner notes, on line interviews with the likes of Ernst Jorgensen & Michael Omansky, as well as books like WHEN ELVIS DIED/ A TOUCH OF GOLD/ ELVIS No 1 s/ FOR CD FANS ONLY/ SOLID GOLD ELVIS/ ELVIS INC/ ALL ABOUT ELVIS/ A LIFE IN MUSIC & many more from the 670 Elvis books in my collection.
TIME magazine, NEWSWEEK also carried features on Elvis that included sales data, plus many US newspapers also carried stories with sales data much of which was pertaining to their local area especially after Elvis died. Statistics are also available from SOUNDSCAN regarding Elvis’ over the counter sales in the US.

Also data from Joel Whitman who produces the US version of The GUINNESS BOOK OF HIT RECORDS has shed light on the US sales system. We have also come across some of the record plants used by RCA in 1977 when they needed the extra capacity to keep with demand. Also financial records relating to RCA post August 1977 are in the public domain that also throws light on the sales.

What we have here is a complicated jigsaw puzzle where we only have half the pieces and because of this you can draw conclusions either way. In looking at US album releases we have catalogue numbers for 426 Elvis releases from 1956 to the present. As well as those we have also 22 titles that we cannot as yet verify catalogue numbers for. They may well be variations on existing titles but again we cannot validate this.

Of the 426 albums we found we have no genuine solid sales data for 212 releases. For some of these we can confidently speculate ballpark figures but this is where you start to lose perspective. We did not count re printed albums as different releases only new catalogue numbers.

On the official Elvis site there are a total of 81 albums certified by the RIAA meaning a total of 345 albums ARE TOTALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR. It is this massive number of albums that gives many of us our basis for belief in the 600 million figure. In total we have sales data mainly based on INITIAL FIRST YEAR SALES for some 131 titles excluding the RIAA certificated releases.

These figures came mainly from RCA/BMG with for example many initial sales figures alluded to in the excellent book A LIFE IN MUSIC by Ernst Jorgensen as well as his ELVIS DAY BY DAY written with PETER GURALNICK. (I will give you some examples later) Adding these figures to the official RIAA numbers I feel I can genuinely stand over a sales figure of 160,000,000, forty million added sales to the official total but still a long way to 600 million.

The rest comes down to informed speculation. There are areas where Elvis has lost sales that have been documented and this would also add to his overall total. For instance the RIAA came into being in late 1958 and all pre 59 sales for all artists have been excluded from the current listings. To my knowledge this situation still exists and the approximately five million album sales from 1956-58 that Elvis sold are not included in his RIAA certifications.

To give a more definite example, RCA claimed that Elvis sold 2.75 million albums by the end of 1956. This was cited by RCA as well as reported in major US newspapers including the MIAMI HERALD. This figure also appeared in the book ELVIS DAY BY DAY quoting RCA sources and it also turned up on the sleeve notes for the album ELVIS 56 (1996).

There were only two Elvis albums released in 1956 (ELVIS PRESLEY LPM 1254 & ELVIS LPM 1382) and between them they officially only have a gold award each. The official figures for these two albums were obviously understated and it is clear to me that these gold awards were based on post 1958 sales leaving nearly three million units out of the equation.

Likewise early sales for LOVING YOU/ ELVIS GOLDEN RECORDS/ ELVIS XMAS ALBUM & KING CREOLE have been omitted from the RIAA certifications. That would bring another five million units into Elvis’ total sales.

With regards to Elvis uncertified movie albums there are widely accepted figures in the public domain that would put initial first year sales for just about all these albums well over the 350,000/375,000 mark. It would be safe to assume that with continuous availability, the 1977 sales boom (most of these movie albums had been re issued in early 77), as well as the transition to CD, all these albums are now hovering around the gold certification mark.

In my 160 million figure I only included the initial sales given by the likes of Ernst Jorgensen in his superb book EP A LIFE IN MUSIC (ISBN 0-312-18572-3). As a BMG insider I would assume the figures he quoted are reliable.

One thing that I am confused about is the various catalogue number changes, do the RIAA treat these releases as separate or are they all combined? For example take the album GI BLUES, a platinum selling movie album only, but it sold 750,000 copies in it s first two months, 1.2 million copies by mid 1964 and it spent 111 weeks on the BILLBOARD HOT 100 ALBUM CHARTS. It also received three separate in house gold awards before 1969. (more about these in house awards later).



Released originally as LPM 2256 (MONO) & LSP 2256 (STEREO) in 1960, it also turned up as a four track KSP 3130 in 1966, an 8-TRACK also in 1966 P8S 1169 as well as on seven inch spool TP3 1052 also the same year. In 1968 it appeared on a double 8 TRACK P8S 5043 and two years later it turned up on cassette for the first time PK 1169. (RCA produced 50,000 initial units on cassette for seven Elvis releases in May 1970 according to BILLBOARD).

It was re issued early in 1977 as AFL1 2256 and was caught up in the massive sales surge after Elvis died. Again according to BILLBOARD this was one of the biggest sellers post 1977 even appearing on the official sales chart. In 1982 it moved to the BEST BUY budget series with a new catalogue number, AYL1 3735, issued on vinyl as well as cassette. (the BEST BUY SERIES was widely promoted in the States especially in the larger WALMART type stores and sales were significant but unfortunately not forthcoming from BMG.

The first CD version appeared in 1988 as RCA 3735-2-R and there were four pressings of this disc with slight catalogue number changes, 3735-2-RRE & 3735-2-RRE-1. In 1997 the set was reissued on CD again with another new number 07863 66960-2 with eight new alternate takes added to the package. This according to the RIAA rules has to be treated as a new release as the number of tracks has increased by more than fifty per cent.

To add to the confusion BMG issued a deluxe version of this set containing the same tracks but having a new catalogue number 07863 67460-2. There was also a cassette version of the former CD release under the number 07863 66960-4.

It is impossible in my mind to believe that this set in all it s forms has not sold over two million copies, and probably much more, in the US given the sheer variety of releases as well as the very strong initial sales of 1.2 million by 1964. Also three in house gold awards (possibly awarded for dollar value) by RCA up to 1969 indicate continual healthy sales. To have not added a further half a million units over the next 35 years is inconceivable to me. There must have been a strong six figure sale for 1977 alone.

I have been told but cannot confirm that one of the pressing plants contracted by RCA in 1977 to supply the massive demand for Elvis albums was the GREEN VALLEY RECORDS plant outside of Nashville Tennessee which had a capacity of 3000/5000 albums a day. This plant was supposed to have been contracted to produce only the GI BLUES album. For how long I do not know.

There is a similar story regarding new catalogue numbers as well as multiple formats for many of Elvis movie albums and I genuinely have difficulty believing that these albums have not managed to add an average of 100,000 odd sales in thirty years plus. If RCA/BMG kept these albums in continuous print for all that time they would have had to have sold less than 5000 copies a year to go over the gold mark.

That begs the question what exactly is an economical pressing of an album? Would it be 500 or 5000 copies or more?? I myself would be inclined to believe the latter but it would shed a lot of light on Elvis’ sales if we had an answer to this question. Another interesting film album from the sales point of view is FRANKIE & JOHNNY (ACL 7007). I believe it was the 1976 PICKWICK re issue of the soundtrack that received the PLATINUM award and it is also my belief that the sales of the original album LPM 3553 (approx 350,000 initial sales) are being treated separately.

This brings me on to another point made by the ESTATE in their statement explaining why they think Elvis is the greatest selling artist and this is the disqualification of certain albums because the wholesale trade price dropped below what the RIAA considered the acceptable norm for an album release.

The Estate cited the 900,000 plus sales of THE ELVIS CHRISTMAS ALBUM (CAL 2428) as an example. According to BILLBOARD nine Elvis budget albums were affected by this rule and as these titles were among the most popular of Elvis’ releases in the seventies there is potentially anywhere up to five million sales disqualified. This rule affected many other artists besides Elvis and I came across an article in a country music magazine that claimed a JIM REEVES Xmas album lost nearly 1.7 million sales because of this rule.

With the Xmas album gaining another platinum award in the last series of up grades, it is possible that the missing sales were now being applied or was the new award for new sales, I can’t answer that myself other than to say that I have seen no indication anywhere to indicate that the RIAA has changed their policy on this issue.

The Xmas album just mentioned is probably Elvis’ only chance for a diamond award for ten million sales and it would be nice to see this happen in the future.

Another sales related theme I want to return to is the issue of in house gold awards given internally by record companies. This seemingly was a common practice up to the early nineties and was commonly used by RCA and Elvis’ catalogue received more than its fair share. While not accepted by the RIAA it nonetheless seems to me to be a legitimate avenue to explore when looking at the sales issue. Why bother to issue an award if the album in question didn’t t sell sufficient quantities, I cannot imagine that RCA would claim extra sales if their financial records were to audited and they ended up paying royalties for sales that did not exist. From what we know of the shady dealings by RCA during Elvis’ lifetime that would be the last thing they would do.

I have no idea just how many in-house awards were given to Elvis’ catalogue but many albums would also have the official RIAA award so these releases are not that important in the scheme of things.

It is the non certified albums that really interest and bit by bit the awards are turning up. For instance in the HARD ROCK CAFÉ in CHICAGO ILL, there is on the wall a gold award for the album ELVIS TODAY issued in 1977.



At a JIMMY VELVET auction in 1998 I believe two in house gold awards for FRANKIE & JOHNNY as well as PARADISE HAWAIIAN STYLE were offered for sale. The awards were issued in 1968 & 1970 respectively. The JERRY OSBOURNE BOOK OF ELVIS & BEATLE COLLECTIBLES has a gold award for PROMISED LAND dated 1976. The book SOLID GOLD ELVIS has details on an in house gold award for the BEST BUY version of the album, HOW GREAT THOU ART (AQL1 3758).

More of these awards turned up at the BONHAMS AUCTION and while most have now received official awards from the RIAA, these in house gold discs all date back to the seventies & early eighties. DOUBLE DYNAMITE had an award for $2,000,000 in sales as had the ELVIS XMAS album while THE 68 TV SPECIAL, the BOULEVARD album, OUR MEMORIES OF ELVIS and a TV advertised album called ELVIS (I believe this to be the BROOKVILLE RECORDS DPL 2 0056 released in 1973) had an award for 1,000,000 sales.

The Elvis collector PAUL LICHTER always came up with a few of these awards including ones for FUN IN ACAPULCO/ POT LUCK & KISSING COUSINS which is very interesting. Obviously the RIAA are not going to accept these awards as proof even though they are most definitely genuine.

It would appear that with the closure of many pressing plants by RCA in the mid to late eighties many of the sales data went with them.

There appeared to be some outside help in documenting the sales for these in house gold awards with a company called CRANE MORRIS MARKETING responsible for the internal audit of at least some of the discs. In total I have come across 22 titles that received in house awards and I have no doubt that there are many more. What is most interesting is the seven titles that as yet have no official RIAA certification. That adds up to another 3.5 million sales to be added to the official total.

I mentioned the BROOKVILLE RECORDS TV advertised double album, ELVIS (DPL 2 0056) released in 1973 and this baby is to the US, the equivalent of what the 40 GREATEST HITS was to the UK. This was a monster seller over four years and was probably the best selling TV advertised compilation in the States during the 1970 s.

Launched at the time with the largest ever advertising budget in the history of the industry Stateside, it is widely believed to have been a winner for everybody with some claims of sales nearing ten million. The most conservative estimate I have seen is 3.5 million but unfortunately we really don’t have any solid sales data as this type of release wasn't eligible for the charts at that time.

What we do know however is that BROOKVILLE went on to re licence this album twice and followed up this release with another album called ELVIS IN HOLLYWOOD. (APL2 0168) in 1976. BROOKVILLE RECORDS announced at the time of release that they were spending 3.5 million dollars on TV advertising a record for that time and with inflation today the budget would be the equivalent of twenty five million dollars.

It is conceded by everybody that this set was a lucrative venture especially for RCA & BROOKVILLE and if this was the case the sales would have to have been well above the five million mark if not higher. I would base this assertion on the cost of manufacture, distribution, over the counter retail margin, licence costs to RCA and the massive advertising budget.

Based on a five dollar retail price BROOKVILLE would have had to sell over five million copies of the set to make a million dollars profit! At the time of Elvis’ death RCA reissued 100,000 special commemorative copies of this set in a gatefold gold vinyl numbered edition which flowed off the shelves at a retail price of eight dollars fifty.

The set also turned up as part of a box set with two other TV advertised albums and again this package which was supposed to be for the Canadian market was widely available in both the US & Europe. The ROCKAWAY pressing plant in NEW JERSEY with a capacity of 60,000-80,000 albums a day was supposed to have exclusively concentrated on this album in the two months after Elvis died, according to BILLBOARD magazine.

Speaking of pressing plants the INDIANAPOLIS plant run by RCA was the largest in the States at the time of ELVIS death and had the capacity confirmed by a number of sources (BILLBOARD/ CASHBOX/ the book WHEN ELVIS DIED) of producing 250,000 albums a day. When Elvis died the plant went into a seven day shift that exclusively manufactured Elvis albums until February 1978 (CASHBOX magazine).

For the first two weeks/one month (I cannot confirm the time span) this pressing plant only manufactured copies of the album MOODY BLUE. Based on a two week cycle that would mean 3,500,000 copies of the album found their way onto the market. Remember there were solid sales of MOODY BLUE particularly on the country market and sales up to Elvis’ death were running over 400,000 with perhaps another 100,000 copies still on the shelves. So what happened to the other two million copies, why is this album only certified double platinum?

Again I do not have a set in stone answer but I believe that this plant manufactured this album for the CANADIAN market as well as the US.

Sales of MOODY BLUE in Canada were much higher than probably anywhere else in the world as a proportion of population, with over 800,000 copies sold there in the year after Elvis died. (BILLBOARD)

Also I also believe that the plant also supplied copies South of the border. As well as that there appeared to be a massive uptake of the album shipped to overseas bases for US troops in South Korea/ Japan/ Germany & the Philippines many of which found their way onto the civilian market. The US army at that time had changed from the draft system to an all volunteer army and as it is today there is a much higher percentage of soldiers from the South where the military tradition is strong. It seems that a high eight figure total of the album found its way out of the country via the US army. That would account for three of the four million copies but as for the missing million they probably were lost to the pandemonium of the sales rush following Elvis’ death.

To add to the above there was a vinyl reissue in 1985, a cassette reissue the same year, the first CD came out in 1988 with another CD reissue in 1991 and with had an upgrade a few years ago with tracks from the BOULEVARD added for completion. I firmly believe that the case for three to four million sales could be argued for this album, the figures seem to be there and that is excluding the sales that went abroad.

Much has been made of the massive sales that occurred when Elvis died, twenty million sold the day after, the week after, one hundred million sold in the year after he died etc., etc.. I have touted these figures off by heart many times to cite my case for Elvis being the top seller but it is the one area we really have very little data to work on.

Judging by the RIAA awards for 1977-78 Elvis did indeed sell strongly but nothing to indicate anywhere near 100 million albums. In fact we are talking about RIAA certifications for approximately ten to fifteen million album sales, so where have all the other sales gone to???

Should we accept the RCA dictate that sales records were lost due to the massive rush to get the product on the shelves? What do we really know about those critical twelve months?

Much is made of the fact that RCA had to subcontract out to approximately forty plants to keep pace with backorders. While this is true, it has to be said that most of the pressing plants were small independents with limited capacity of 5000-10000 daily. Most were based in the South and were family run country labels. The twenty million records sold claim that has appeared in print often enough to be quoted religiously by fans (myself included) could not have happened as there would have been no more than a couple of million Elvis albums on the shelves the day he died.

A more realistic figure appeared in BILLBOARD quoting an RCA executive, BILL RANDALL, who said that they shipped 8,000,000 albums the first week after Elvis died. This claim also appeared in the excellent book WHEN ELVIS DIED. He went on to say that they had the capacity to ship twenty million albums a week Stateside as long as the demand exists.

There were many reports in BILLBOARD in the six months after Elvis died giving impressive sales figures across the entire Elvis catalogue. Perhaps that is the key to the whole sales question during this time. There were at least fifty eight Elvis titles fighting for attention during this time with the more recent & new releases grabbing the big numbers sales wise. WELCOME TO MY WORLD/ MOODY BLUE/ ELVIS IN CONCERT/ THE ELVIS STORY/ WORLDWIDE GOLD AWARD HITS CLUB EDITION & THE LEGENDARY PERFORMER VOL 2 grabbed over eleven million sales between them.

So how many sales did each other album accrue? That is the fifty million dollar question but there are some small indicators that have turned up over the years that sheds some light on this subject. MICHAEL OMANSKY claimed in an internet interview that the GOLD RECORD series sold over 200,000 yearly, I’m sure that 1977-78 saw considerably higher sales for that particular series.

BILLBOARD magazine claimed that the ARMY & AIRFORCE EXCHANGE CENTRE ordered more than 300,000 Elvis albums during the last six months of 1977. A BILLBOARD editorial during November 1977 claimed that Elvis was SOLELY responsible for the revival of the US RECORD INDUSTRY, shipping twenty million albums a week from late August. (I have to admit that this is second hand information and I have not seen a copy of it).

For the end of the 1977 financial year RCA had turned around a ninety million dollar loss of the previous year into a $247 million profit, with the record manufacturing division of RCA responsible for 39% of the turnover up over one hundred & forty per cent on the previous year, all due to sales of Elvis records.

Remember RCA cancelled their Autumn country release schedule to concentrate on filling the demand for Elvis product.


Another BILLBOARD article claimed that one in two country albums sold was an Elvis title (Nov 77) and in January 78 the same magazine claimed that one in three country albums sold during 1977 was an Elvis release, giving an estimated figure of thirty five million albums.

I have seen newspaper articles from many US newspapers that gave many insights into the massive sales in the year after Elvis’ death with localised stories on how difficult it was to obtain Elvis albums, about having to buy albums at an auction, how people were limited to two albums per person, on how a record store in KNOXVILLE TENN, became the first recorded store to open at midnight for the release of the ELVIS IN CONCERT album. How advance orders for ELVIS IN CONCERT had passed the three million mark and RCA were pressing five million copies to ensure demand was satisfied. (remember this album has a triple platinum award)

Another factor that may have clouded the sales data during this time was the number of leased albums as well as record club issues that appeared on the market. From mid 1978 until the present RCA/BMG seem to have lost the run of themselves when it came to leasing out Elvis tracks for compilation albums. This has added significantly to the difficulty in obtaining sales data as nearly all of these companies have no interest in verifying the sales of Elvis’ back catalogue. Some of the companies are no longer in existence while others have been taken over or amalgamated, leading to lost files/financial statements.

Companies like READERS DIGEST/ CANDLELITE/ AVON/ TIMELIFE/ GREENVALLEY/ HBO/ DCC/ RAZOR TIE/ K MART/ BLOCKBUSTER/ HEARTLAND/ K TEL/ BEST BUY/ QVC/ JC PENNEY/ SOLO CUP COMPANY/ RADIO SHACK/ FRANKLIN MINT/ PAIR RECORDS/ BROOKVILLE RECORDS/ PICKWICK/ WALT DISNEY RECORDS/ MADACY MUSIC/ GREENHILL PRODUCTIONS/ PROVIDENT MUSIC/ CASTLE MUSIC/ MUSIC MILL/ FRIEDMANN FAIRFAX all brought out Elvis compilations with many of the above bringing out numerous releases.

For example TIMELIFE produced seventeen titles while GREENHILL PRODUCTIONS a newer entry to the list have currently five titles. We know that many of the releases from these companies were heavily promoted on TV/SATELLITE as well as on the print media and have contributed many millions of sales to the Elvis catalogue, some officially recognised, most not. For example TIMELIFE issued a series of double CDs from the mid to late 1990s which are still being offered for sale in the US today, advertised extensively on cable & satellite TV channels. The gimmick with this series was the availability of one unreleased alternate take with each set. In the last advert I saw for the series TIMELIFE claimed sales of 3.7 million by the middle of 2002 and as the CDs were over one hundred minutes long there was an accumulated total of nearly 7.5million units sold.

Previously it was claimed in 2000 that sales of this series was approximately 5.3million meaning that as long as TIMELIFE kept promoting the series they were shifting some one million units a year. These figures have not been added to Elvis’ official total.

The other TIMELIFE releases have been available for much longer and I dare say have notched up high six figure sales but unfortunately no sales data have come to light for these releases. READERS DIGEST & CANDLELITE have been reasonably documented as to their potential sales although a significant proportion of sales data for these companies remains to be unearthed.

K TEL as with the LOVE SONGS /INSPIRATIONS/ ULTIMATE albums in the UK would have heavily promoted their Elvis titles and given the UK sales especially for the first LOVE SONGS set, I would expect that sales for the equivalent US LOVE SONGS would have been certainly in the very high six figure range if not well over the million. Unfortunately K TEL in the US were not the type of company to pay for the verification of the sales of its product and were a strictly cheap & cheerful show-me-the-money operation.

Newer companies tend to be more specialist aiming at target audiences especially the massive Christian/born again population in the States. For instance BMG claimed that licensed Gospel CDs issued by GREENHILL & PROVIDENT have sold over 100,000 copies per CD and continue to show strong sales in the thousands of Christian book stores Stateside.

Suffice it to say that there are tens of millions of sales in this sector that need to be added to Elvis’ total sales but the lack of data from this source is perhaps the most serious impediment to advancing Elvis’ overall total. Another source for missing sales are the RCA & BMG RECORD CLUBS which are not to be under estimated as to their potential.

Some specific releases from the RCA RECORD CLUB attained very substantial sales with for instance the club version of the WORLDWIDE GOLD AWARD HITS VOL 1 & 2 achieving platinum status. So successful were the sales of Elvis product through the clubs, RCA released albums that were only available from this source.

Titles like the 2CD ELVIS PRESLEY (SVL3 0710)/ ELVIS COUNTRY CLASSICS (R233299e)/ FROM ELVIS WITH LOVE (R 234340e)/ LEGENDARY CONCERT PERFORMANCES (R 244047e) & COUNTRY MEMORIES (R 244069e) were all only available through the record club. What is interesting to note about these albums is the fact that they can be acquired easily in the States from a variety of sources at prices ranging from ten to fifteen dollars, a sure sign that there were large numbers in circulation.

In more recent times BMG have had great success marketing their four CD Elvis box sets (CLOSE UP as well as TODAY TOMORROW & FOREVER ) through their direct buying networks giving both sets combined domestic US sales of nearly 800,000 units. (source MICHAEL OMANSKY interview).

Before I finish I would like to point out a few more potential sources where there are definitely considerable sales to be had. In 1987 RCA issued a four cassette only series which were launched at the same time, to cash in on the tenth anniversary expected sales boom.


One of the four, LOVE ME TENDER (CAK 2650) was awarded a gold disc by the RIAA and I would argue that the other three are not far off gold status based on the fact that they all came out together and it would be highly unlikely that everyone would opt for just one title, ignoring all the others. There would have been an even spread over the four titles giving Elvis potentially another million plus sales.

For the record the other cassette titles were; COUNTRY FEELINGS DPK1 0786 MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM ELVIS DPK10800 AN ELVIS CELEBRATION DPK10807. Two other cassette only releases, SAVAGE YOUNG ELVIS (DPK10679) & MEMORIES (DPK1 0904) also sold well into the six figures through RADIO SHACK and JC PENNEYS.

The GOLDEN CELEBRATION box set has not come up in the sales figures which I find puzzling as it was touted by RCA when first released as a major critical & commercial success. With the release of the four CD version I was sure that this package would have been awarded at least a gold certification but it hasn't happened yet. The set went as high as number eighty on the BILLBOARD album charts and that was based on the entire contents of the box being counted as just one sale. As well as that we have seen a report that giant US wholesaler COSCO purchased 15,000 copies of the CD when first released, that is sixty thousand units. The only why I can make sense of it all is to maintain that the vinyl six disc version is being classed as a different release to the four CD version.

Other box sets like the QVC film set DOUBLE FEATURES (but this set 15,000 plus the non QVC version 10,000???, 100,000 units total. COLLECTORS GOLD just short of gold if you believe BMG. The ELVIS ARON PRESLEY eight album box set was claimed by RCA to have sold by early 1981 the equivalent of a platinum and a gold certification. Add to that the sales of the CD box which again I believe are being taken separately by the RIAA and you could argue the bones of a double platinum sale for this set.

The TIMELIFE set ELVIS 1954 to 1961 has been sold continually on TV for the last twenty five years with fifteen & thirty minute slots on cable/satellite TV. It is one of those releases that I believe, based on what we know from other TIMELIFE sets, has the potential to be a multi platinum seller. Why purchase advertising time on a twenty five year old release if it is not selling? There are so many other potentially certifiable Elvis albums that I could go on & on but unfortunately the hard data just isn't there.

Elvis HIS LIFE IN MUSIC (a four CD plus book package) was an interesting box set originally sold as a numbered 39,000 edition but it later turned up again with no limited number so I am assuming that the first 160,000 units were sold. Another twin CD pack that was heavily advertised on US TV was the GOOD ROCKING TONIGHT (SVL2 0824) which was mention on BILLBOARD magazine as being the best selling special TV package of that year, 1988. What they meant by special I really don’t know but this is another interesting set that I would love to have some sales data on.

Another question that comes up a lot in relation to Elvis’ sales is the lack of chart action for most of the albums released especially since the 1980s onwards. If we claim massive sales why are there not the weeks of BILLBOARD chart sales to match them?

The main reason I believe is that a great majority of Elvis’ sales have come from areas which are not part of the national US counting system run by SOUNDSCAN. Over the counter sales on a yearly basis as registered by chart shops on the SOUNDSCAN DATABASE average between 1.2 & 1.5 million.

However the greatest source for Elvis’ CD sales are the shops outside GRACELAND which are not part of the system. Add to that the record clubs, sales through Elvis sites, official & unofficial, Christian book stores which are now a major outlet for Elvis product and the likes of TIMELIFE plus other leased packages.

It would be great if we could find out just how many CD s are sold every year at GRACELAND.


With 650,000-700,000 people visiting every year there must be potential sales running into six figures. I have been to GRACELAND five times and normally would arrive home with ten to fifteen CD's a trip. I realise that for every person who purchases a CD another will put their money into a picture or other souvenir but in the times I have been there I spent hours hanging round the shops and the amount of product being sold was very substantial. One could argue that Elvis would on a normal year sell three million CD's a year Stateside and with a package like the 30 NUMBER 1s, he would potentially double that tally, if you were to include all sources not just the SOUNDSCAN figure that appears yearly.

The chart action of a particular album has no relevance to the amount it sells and this applies especially to Elvis and can be demonstrated time & time again.

The AMAZING GRACE double Gospel CD is officially 2 x Platinum and is according to BMG nearing another gold certification yet it never went near the BILLBOARD HOT 100 ALBUM CHARTS. It has actually sold more than many of their number one albums.

The same can be said for THE NUMBER ONE HITS which exploded onto the charts at the high position of 143 and promptly vanished yet again it managed to sell three million copies. The TOP THE HITS nearly broke into the HOT 100 reaching the dizzy heights of 117 but it still sold four million.

There are dozens of examples when applied to Elvis and it proves that chart action or the lack of it does not factor into the sales equation. A mention must be given to Elvis’ YULETIDE repertoire which has amassed some truly awesome sales figures.

If RCA/BMG had stuck to the two original Xmas releases releasing them every year they would have sold in excess of thirty million copies by now (BMG publicity leaflet for the WHITE CHRISTMAS set 2000). Instead we got a total of twenty six documented Xmas albums in the States and as with the religious albums they are continuing to prove to be the most consistent sellers of the Elvis catalogue.

Winding this down I would just like to add that it was not possible to write in this article about every individual release there are hundreds of interesting snippets that we gathered over the last three years. We hope to release everything we have found relating to the sales issue shortly and hopefully this will generate some healthy debate on this fascinating subject.

I have to say that it is MY opinion (Brian Quinn & Kelvin Wilson may well have a totally different perspective on the same figures) that it would be hard to put a case for 600 million US sales based on what I’ve seen. I appreciate that half if not more of the jigsaw puzzle is missing but there is enough there to make an informed calculation and the only imponderable there for me is exactly what was the extent of those massive sales 1977-78.

Even allowing for one hundred million sold in the year after Elvis died I’m inclined to believe a figure of 300 to 350 million sales are far more realistic.

While it is generally held that the US is responsible for two thirds of all Elvis’ sales I believe that the opposite is really the case. The figures that I have seen both reliable as well as speculative seem to indicate that sales outside of the US since the early eighties have been on a higher level and that brings me to believe that Elvis’ total world sales (albums only) are between six & seven hundred million.

Assuming that the US sold a greater number than the rest of the world pre 1980. Many of you will know doubt strongly disagree with me which you are entitled to but bear in mind the fact that a figure of 300,000,000+ US album sales is still twice that of his nearest rivals, the BEATLES.

That Elvis has sold at least that many I myself now, have no doubt, but after adding the catalogue many times over comparing like with like, albums with definite sales with similar albums with no data I would be deceiving you if I came up with a 600 million figure.

I would welcome comment from any source or if any of you out there has genuine sales data relating to any Elvis release in any part of the world please make it known.

Many great informations here, great researches, all this and at the end a stupid fan conclusion, with a ridiculous sales figure.
All those articles look like this, because it's only Elvis fans who take the time to wrote this shit.

Thanks for your 3-4 last posts Basil, much more interesting than the others before.

[Cass]

Basil,your sales lists are interesting and very impressive.I seen that you have the Elvis In Concert album listed with three million sales but the actual total has to be around 6 million sets shipped.Elvis In Concert shipped over 4 million sets 27 years ago,so I figure it must have shipped over one million since that time.I noticed that Bing Crosby was not on your all-time sellers list.During the summer of 1943,Bing's record label put his sales at over 60 million and by 1962 his worldwide total was listed at just over 200 million sales.Most of his sales were in America,so Bing must be around 200 million combined USA sales.

[MJDangerous]

Basil,your sales lists are interesting and very impressive.I seen that you have the Elvis In Concert album listed with three million sales but the actual total has to be around 6 million sets shipped.Elvis In Concert shipped over 4 million sets 27 years ago,so I figure it must have shipped over one million since that time.I noticed that Bing Crosby was not on your all-time sellers list.During the summer of 1943,Bing's record label put his sales at over 60 million and by 1962 his worldwide total was listed at just over 200 million sales.Most of his sales were in America,so Bing must be around 200 million combined USA sales.

It's simply IMPOSSIBLE ! USA market was very poor between the two wars, 200m in this time is a joke.
Elvis In Concert hit #5, 4 weeks in the top 10 and only 18 weeks in the top 200. So, 4 millions 27 years ago ? Let me

[Cass]

Why would Bing's record company exaggerate his sales numbers?Bing was so far ahead of his competition that there was no need to exaggerate.Bing dominated his era more than anyone before or since.

[Basil]

Basil,your sales lists are interesting and very impressive.I seen that you have the Elvis In Concert album listed with three million sales but the actual total has to be around 6 million sets shipped.Elvis In Concert shipped over 4 million sets 27 years ago,so I figure it must have shipped over one million since that time.I noticed that Bing Crosby was not on your all-time sellers list.During the summer of 1943,Bing's record label put his sales at over 60 million and by 1962 his worldwide total was listed at just over 200 million sales.Most of his sales were in America,so Bing must be around 200 million combined USA sales.

Hi Cass

Elvis in Concert has shipped 3 million sales as audited by the riaa in 2002. If it has shipped more than that, then RCA/BMG has failed to prove it to the riaa accountants. Press reports are usually inflated. Check out

http://www.riaa.com for more information.

Bing Crosby's sales are for singles. He certainly sold loads and loads of singles in the 30's/40's/50's, but not many albums. My thread concerns albums only.

Feel free to ask more questions, I am happy to explain.

[Basil]

I'm often disappointed by your debating style.

For some artists you seem intent only on raising their sales. With others, you seem intent on reducing them as much as possible.

I don't understand this, we are dealing with figures only. Personal feelings should never come into any analysis.

Perhaps it is a language thing. Words like Crap, Stupid and Shit are very strong words in English.

This guy has spent years on this work and is trying to get to the bottom of things, but you just dismiss it out of hand.

Let's look at what he said

by Tony Galvin

This is a vexed subject with many fans and to question the holy grail of one billion sales is to open yourself up to accusations of blasphemy.

He is addressing an Elvis fanatic audience, and obviously doesn't believe this 1 billion figure - even as a great Elvis fan himself

Nigel Patterson who has worked very hard on this issue and is as good a fan as you could possibly get took a lot of flak when he simply pointed out that there did not seem to be enough hard data out there to back up the figure claimed and accepted by the Elvis world in general.

I would like to put out in this article the US sales data that we feel is important and might help build a circumstantial case towards the 600 million figure but from what I've been able to come across the evidence is far from conclusive.

A good argument here about the importance of solid data. Here he prepares the fans for the fact that not only is the 1 billion figure wrong, so is the 600m one.

Many of you will also be aware of the RIAA method of counting which doesn’t allow for sales up to or between milestones. (for example sales up to 499,999 are not counted) This it must be said affects all artists but it is especially hard on Elvis due to the sheer number of album releases in his catalogue.

This is an excellent statistical point. The riaa award points at at sales of 500,000 - 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 and so on. If you only have about 12 albums like the Eagles and Led Zeppelin, this will have little effect on your total sales as every album is certified and there may only be a few say platinum albums with sales at say 1,600,000 giving small missing sales.

If you have 400 albums like Elvis, this will have an absolutely enormous effect.

Of the 426 albums we found we have no genuine solid sales data for 212 releases. For some of these we can confidently speculate ballpark figures but this is where you start to lose perspective. We did not count re printed albums as different releases only new catalogue numbers.

So here are the numbers - all those albums. He warns too about losing perspective.

On the official Elvis site there are a total of 81 albums certified by the RIAA meaning a total of 345 albums ARE TOTALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR. It is this massive number of albums that gives many of us our basis for belief in the 600 million figure. In total we have sales data mainly based on INITIAL FIRST YEAR SALES for some 131 titles excluding the RIAA certificated releases.

Adding these figures to the official RIAA numbers I feel I can genuinely stand over a sales figure of 160,000,000, forty million added sales to the official total but still a long way to 600 million.

He has found 40 million sales from the first year sales of 131 titles. He is using the riaa system of including all units, so goes from 120 to 160m sales.

I would use my own system of total albums only, and given a few of the 131 titles may be multi-disc sets, I would raise my figure from 97m to 130m.

For instance the RIAA came into being in late 1958 and all pre 59 sales for all artists have been excluded from the current listings. To my knowledge this situation still exists and the approximately five million album sales from 1956-58 that Elvis sold are not included in his RIAA certifications.

This is new to me. I understood that the riaa would certify sales from any time provided they could be proven. Indeed, they have certified albums from 1955. I would therefore need proof of this statement as it does not make sense.

With regards to Elvis uncertified movie albums there are widely accepted figures in the public domain that would put initial first year sales for just about all these albums well over the 350,000/375,000 mark. It would be safe to assume that with continuous availability, the 1977 sales boom (most of these movie albums had been re issued in early 77), as well as the transition to CD, all these albums are now hovering around the gold certification mark.

Probably right after 40 years on catalogue. Many of the soundtracks with a similar chart performance went Gold long ago.

The first CD version appeared in 1988 as RCA 3735-2-R and there were four pressings of this disc with slight catalogue number changes, 3735-2-RRE & 3735-2-RRE-1. In 1997 the set was reissued on CD again with another new number 07863 66960-2 with eight new alternate takes added to the package. This according to the RIAA rules has to be treated as a new release as the number of tracks has increased by more than fifty per cent.

I don't think the riaa are too worried about catalogue numbers - although soundscan is. I understand all catalogue numbered issues can be included.

Also 75% of the original album must be on a re-issue - not 50%. If the re-issue has less than 75% of the original album, then it cannot be included as is treated as a separate release.

This brings me on to another point made by the ESTATE and this is the disqualification of certain albums because the wholesale trade price dropped below what the RIAA considered the acceptable norm for an album release.

The Estate cited the 900,000 plus sales of THE ELVIS CHRISTMAS ALBUM (CAL 2428) as an example. According to BILLBOARD nine Elvis budget albums were affected by this rule and as these titles were among the most popular of Elvis’ releases in the seventies there is potentially anywhere up to five million sales disqualified.

I don't think the riaa have moved on this. The sales were proved, but they did not fit riaa rules.

The Xmas album just mentioned is probably Elvis’ only chance for a diamond award for ten million sales and it would be nice to see this happen in the future.

Yes, I agree. I don't think any other Elvis album is close to a diamond award.

It would appear that with the closure of many pressing plants by RCA in the mid to late eighties many of the sales data went with them.

It seems unlikely that much if any of this sales data will be found.

I mentioned the BROOKVILLE RECORDS TV advertised double album, ELVIS (DPL 2 0056) released in 1973 and this baby is to the US, the equivalent of what the 40 GREATEST HITS was to the UK. This was a monster seller over four years and was probably the best selling TV advertised compilation in the States during the 1970 s.

Launched at the time with the largest ever advertising budget in the history of the industry Stateside, it is widely believed to have been a winner for everybody with some claims of sales nearing ten million. The most conservative estimate I have seen is 3.5 million but unfortunately we really don’t have any solid sales data as this type of release wasn't eligible for the charts at that time.

What we do know however is that BROOKVILLE went on to re licence this album twice and followed up this release with another album called ELVIS IN HOLLYWOOD. (APL2 0168) in 1976. BROOKVILLE RECORDS announced at the time of release that they were spending 3.5 million dollars on TV advertising a record for that time and with inflation today the budget would be the equivalent of twenty five million dollars.

It is conceded by everybody that this set was a lucrative venture especially for RCA & BROOKVILLE and if this was the case the sales would have to have been well above the five million mark if not higher. I would base this assertion on the cost of manufacture, distribution, over the counter retail margin, licence costs to RCA and the massive advertising budget.

Reasonable argument. Obviously some big sales there.

Judging by the RIAA awards for 1977-78 Elvis did indeed sell strongly but nothing to indicate anywhere near 100 million albums. In fact we are talking about RIAA certifications for approximately ten to fifteen million album sales, so where have all the other sales gone to???

Should we accept the RCA dictate that sales records were lost due to the massive rush to get the product on the shelves? What do we really know about those critical twelve months?

A more realistic figure appeared in BILLBOARD quoting an RCA executive, BILL RANDALL, who said that they shipped 8,000,000 albums the first week after Elvis died. He went on to say that they had the capacity to ship twenty million albums a week Stateside as long as the demand exists.

There were many reports in BILLBOARD in the six months after Elvis died giving impressive sales figures across the entire Elvis catalogue. Perhaps that is the key to the whole sales question during this time. There were at least fifty eight Elvis titles fighting for attention during this time with the more recent & new releases grabbing the big numbers sales wise. WELCOME TO MY WORLD/ MOODY BLUE/ ELVIS IN CONCERT/ THE ELVIS STORY/ WORLDWIDE GOLD AWARD HITS CLUB EDITION & THE LEGENDARY PERFORMER VOL 2 grabbed over eleven million sales between them.

A BILLBOARD editorial during November 1977 claimed that Elvis was SOLELY responsible for the revival of the US RECORD INDUSTRY, shipping twenty million albums a week from late August. (I have to admit that this is second hand information and I have not seen a copy of it).

For the end of the 1977 financial year RCA had turned around a ninety million dollar loss of the previous year into a $247 million profit, with the record manufacturing division of RCA responsible for 39% of the turnover up over one hundred & forty per cent on the previous year, all due to sales of Elvis records.

Remember RCA cancelled their Autumn country release schedule to concentrate on filling the demand for Elvis product.


Another BILLBOARD article claimed that one in two country albums sold was an Elvis title (Nov 77) and in January 78 the same magazine claimed that one in three country albums sold during 1977 was an Elvis release, giving an estimated figure of thirty five million albums.

I was around during this period buying Billboard and Elvis's sales in 1977 were obviously enormous. Not 100 million, but enormous.

Another factor that may have clouded the sales data during this time was the number of leased albums as well as record club issues that appeared on the market. From mid 1978 until the present RCA/BMG seem to have lost the run of themselves when it came to leasing out Elvis tracks for compilation albums. This has added significantly to the difficulty in obtaining sales data as nearly all of these companies have no interest in verifying the sales of Elvis’ back catalogue. Some of the companies are no longer in existence while others have been taken over or amalgamated, leading to lost files/financial statements.

Companies like READERS DIGEST/ CANDLELITE/ AVON/ TIMELIFE/ GREENVALLEY/ HBO/ DCC/ RAZOR TIE/ K MART/ BLOCKBUSTER/ HEARTLAND/ K TEL/ BEST BUY/ QVC/ JC PENNEY/ SOLO CUP COMPANY/ RADIO SHACK/ FRANKLIN MINT/ PAIR RECORDS/ BROOKVILLE RECORDS/ PICKWICK/ WALT DISNEY RECORDS/ MADACY MUSIC/ GREENHILL PRODUCTIONS/ PROVIDENT MUSIC/ CASTLE MUSIC/ MUSIC MILL/ FRIEDMANN FAIRFAX all brought out Elvis compilations with many of the above bringing out numerous releases.

For example TIMELIFE produced seventeen titles while GREENHILL PRODUCTIONS a newer entry to the list have currently five titles. We know that many of the releases from these companies were heavily promoted on TV/SATELLITE as well as on the print media and have contributed many millions of sales to the Elvis catalogue, some officially recognised, most not. For example TIMELIFE issued a series of double CDs from the mid to late 1990s which are still being offered for sale in the US today, advertised extensively on cable & satellite TV channels. The gimmick with this series was the availability of one unreleased alternate take with each set. In the last advert I saw for the series TIMELIFE claimed sales of 3.7 million by the middle of 2002 and as the CDs were over one hundred minutes long there was an accumulated total of nearly 7.5million units sold.

Previously it was claimed in 2000 that sales of this series was approximately 5.3million meaning that as long as TIMELIFE kept promoting the series they were shifting some one million units a year. These figures have not been added to Elvis’ official total.

The other TIMELIFE releases have been available for much longer and I dare say have notched up high six figure sales but unfortunately no sales data have come to light for these releases. READERS DIGEST & CANDLELITE have been reasonably documented as to their potential sales although a significant proportion of sales data for these companies remains to be unearthed.

K TEL as with the LOVE SONGS /INSPIRATIONS/ ULTIMATE albums in the UK would have heavily promoted their Elvis titles and given the UK sales especially for the first LOVE SONGS set, I would expect that sales for the equivalent US LOVE SONGS would have been certainly in the very high six figure range if not well over the million. Unfortunately K TEL in the US were not the type of company to pay for the verification of the sales of its product and were a strictly cheap & cheerful show-me-the-money operation.

Newer companies tend to be more specialist aiming at target audiences especially the massive Christian/born again population in the States. For instance BMG claimed that licensed Gospel CDs issued by GREENHILL & PROVIDENT have sold over 100,000 copies per CD and continue to show strong sales in the thousands of Christian book stores Stateside.

Suffice it to say that there are tens of millions of sales in this sector that need to be added to Elvis’ total sales but the lack of data from this source is perhaps the most serious impediment to advancing Elvis’ overall total.

A long section, but very important. Whatever your bias on this matter, there are some serious sales going on here.

Another source for missing sales are the RCA & BMG RECORD CLUBS which are not to be under estimated as to their potential.

Well, we know about these. The riaa will include these now, but that depends on the figures being available. As far as I know record clubs have existed since at least the 1950's.

The AMAZING GRACE double Gospel CD is officially 2 x Platinum and is according to BMG nearing another gold certification yet it never went near the BILLBOARD HOT 100 ALBUM CHARTS. It has actually sold more than many of their number one albums.

The same can be said for THE NUMBER ONE HITS which exploded onto the charts at the high position of 143 and promptly vanished yet again it managed to sell three million copies. The TOP THE HITS nearly broke into the HOT 100 reaching the dizzy heights of 117 but it still sold four million.

In an earlier post on this thread, I pointed out that 30% of Elvis's certified albums never charted at all.

It is true, that more than perhaps any other artist, many of his sales come from non-retail outlets - TV mail order, clubs and even Graceland.

Winding this down I would just like to add that it was not possible to write in this article about every individual release there are hundreds of interesting snippets that we gathered over the last three years. We hope to release everything we have found relating to the sales issue shortly and hopefully this will generate some healthy debate on this fascinating subject.

Yes, it requires a book. Despite this long article, there is much information elsewhere. The subject is simply huge.

I have to say that it is MY opinion that it would be hard to put a case for 600 million US sales based on what I’ve seen. I appreciate that half if not more of the jigsaw puzzle is missing but there is enough there to make an informed calculation and the only imponderable there for me is exactly what was the extent of those massive sales 1977-78.

Even allowing for one hundred million sold in the year after Elvis died I’m inclined to believe a figure of 300 to 350 million sales are far more realistic.

You really do not like his conclusion. 300 to 350m. He has probably been lynched by Elvis fans.

I think it was an excellently researched article. Do the maths and he's very close.

The 300 to 350m is based on multiple unit sales. If you were to take these out, the 300m would become no more than 250m.

The estimate on my US Sales Thread is 166m and I made sure this was very conservative.

So the answer perhaps lies between the two. 166 to 250m actual albums sold.

I would be deceiving you if I came up with a 600 million figure.

So an Elvis fan does a lot of research and HALVES the figure to 300m. Would you reduce the sales on any artist you liked?

I respect the depth and detail of this work. It is not Shit, Stupid or Crap. We should be able to debate without such words and without bias for or against any artists.