This place does have a Soul!

[Titan3510]

I swear I read opening post, and I was like "waiting for moment when this turns into Beyonce discussion"!! And it did ofcourse

But it was a civil and a reasonable Beyonce discussion.

So we're in the clear...

[NothingFails]

Titan has a point. The likes of Sinatra and Crosby are absolute musical icons, but they aren't considered "rock influences". Neither of them have been inducted in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, not because they aren't important artists, but because it is not what they were about. Elvis, The Beatles, Zeppelin, The Stones, etc... were all heavily influenced by blues and r&b music and Elvis/Stones both also have some country influences. Yes you hear Sinatra all over the likes of Michael Buble, but who considers him anywhere resembling rock music?

[NothingFails]

Elvis stole from a lot of people. From music to image to swag. He had an nice voice and he could certainly move...but he refused to credit them...

He's the biggest-selling male soloist in music history, and arguably the most influential rock and roll artist ever - whether he stole and refused to credit is here nor there - it goes Elvis >>> everyone else in music as far as I'm concerned.

I don't understand the Elvis worship. When it comes to originality, he's almost just as bad as Lady Gaga. So can someone be truly influential if little to none of the music they were producing was original?

Because if that's the case, modern day "artists" can be just as influential or even more influential than Elvis Presley.

Whether he stole and refused to credit is neither here nor there?

That's incorrect: stealing is wrong. And refusing to credit someone you copied or borrow something from is stealing.

It really tarnishes his credibility because it sends the message to the world that he was not an honest man.

I'm not a hardcore Elvis stan or anything, but the whole "he stole and never gave credit" thing has been this urban legend after he died. I've seen enough documentaries (such as "This Is Elvis" from 1981) about him that show that when Elvis was alive, he actually was very vocal about who influenced him and acknowledged that he grew up around black music and the sort. The whole "Elvis was a racist thief" thing is mostly something that has come around in the past ten years. Elvis was just as vocal about where he was influenced as The Rolling Stones were, he's just an easy target for people I guess because he's not around to defend himself.

[Blondini]

Titan I will have to disagree with your comment about what most of the songs these days are about.

The 70's and 80's saw some prolific drug and sex music. It totally fueled the culture. Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Lynrd Skynrd, the Rolling Stones, The Eagles, Guns and Roses. They all made drug music that puts any of today's smoke weed and get high to shame.

They all spoke about cocaine, and that's all...I loved it!

Yes...but it was done tastefully.

They were inspired. So the music was incredible.

And once again, you have to take the culture into consideration. The whole counterculture movement was revolutionary...the whole thing is fascinating and unnerving all at once.

100%! Though i don't see that many modern acts singing about drug use at all. Sex, yes, but - as you said - it's the foundation of what rock and modern music is! It's a matter of how you treat it - someone like Rihanna is way way lower on the level of taste and imagination than Madonna.

See you all are saying that it's okay for them to make prolific drug and sex music because they we're inspired.

In my opinion it makes it worse, as inspired music has a greater effect on the people because it's usually that much more powerful.

I can listen to S&M and not want to be hit with a whip a day in my life, because I know she isn't about anything.

However, let me listen to cocaine related songs from the olden days, like Bob Dylan's - Cocaine Blues, and I'm certainly going to have some interest in why they are protagonizing this drug and making it sound cool

You're saying Rihanna's fake? Says it all! The thing is, we know know with hindsight that heavy drugs use is a bad thing. We didn't know (or care) back then because it was a time of exploration and discovery. Doesn't stop the music being just as brilliant and important. But we also had great dance music that was drug-inspired (acid house/ baggy/ techno) - some of the most revolutionary music of all time has been helped by drug use. But - i'm guessing with all the known health warning theses days - those days are gone. There hasn't been a drug-inspired/ assisted music/ youth movement now for nearly 20 years.

But the homogenisation and normalisation of increasingly explicit sexual material (Rihanna/ Beyonce/ GaGa/ later Britney etc) targeting children coupled with a homgenisation of music into a bland dance/ hip hop hybrid is doubly depressing. Thank god for Gotye/ Fun/ Carly Rae/ Marina/ La Roux/ Florence/ Ellie...

[biscuits]

I have no idea what this thread is about anymore.

[CrazyCrazy]

No need for this thread, it is a little condescending. Anyway at the end of the day people do have different tastes and can listen to what they wish. My input is that I don't think it would hurt for some people to broaden their horizons a little and listen to some different music, you may be so glad you did!:D

Most of my fave artists I would not have discovered if I did not explore and find their music. But as someone has already said if you do not wish to explore that is completely your decision, but it's such a shame to neglect so much great music.

But my listening habits are quite different to some on here, I can't listen to 1 artist for days on end these days I get bored, I NEED diversity and plenty of it - but that is just me. Having said that I still get phases where I love to listen to one artists discography as always.

Another thing some people have more of deeper interest in music (as myself) and an emotional connection which makes them want to explore. Some are happy to just listen to what is "there" for them.

I also think age has something to do with it, as you grow older and if you are still very much interested in music generally you want something more satisfying. And one last thing, the music you grow up with also can have a bearing on your scope and tastes as you get a little older.

[Yoshimo]

Another thing some people have more of deeper interest in music (as myself) and an emotional connection which makes them want to explore. Some are happy to just listen to what is "there" for them.

I would say that's a way to describe how I feel about music.

As I've gotten older I care less and less about sales, or relevance, or anything relating to chart performance, for me it's all about how the music affects me and what it does for my life. Not that I don't respect artists who have their star engraved on the Walk Of Fame, or those inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame, or whatever, it's just quite straightforward - if their music doesn't touch me, it doesn't touch me. I'm a simple lad really.

And yes, this thread is pretty condescending and snobbish. Taste is relative, opinions are opinions. You're not better than the person next to you because you listen to The Who, Led Zeppelin and The Cure and they listen to Madonna, Britney Spears and Lady GaGa. It's all a matter of taste. If you don't like it, ta-ra.

[Titan3510]

Titan I will have to disagree with your comment about what most of the songs these days are about.

The 70's and 80's saw some prolific drug and sex music. It totally fueled the culture. Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Lynrd Skynrd, the Rolling Stones, The Eagles, Guns and Roses. They all made drug music that puts any of today's smoke weed and get high to shame.

They all spoke about cocaine, and that's all...I loved it!

Yes...but it was done tastefully.

They were inspired. So the music was incredible.

And once again, you have to take the culture into consideration. The whole counterculture movement was revolutionary...the whole thing is fascinating and unnerving all at once.

100%! Though i don't see that many modern acts singing about drug use at all. Sex, yes, but - as you said - it's the foundation of what rock and modern music is! It's a matter of how you treat it

Yes.

But it should be noted that there is a difference between talking about sex and talking about erotic love.

I'm not saying that sex wasn't a musical subject back then, but erotic love >>>>>>>

someone like Rihanna is way way lower on the level of taste and imagination than Madonna.

Actually, I disagree.

Madonna has had (and IMHO continues to have) countless moments of being a classless hussy.

Yes, Rihanna is ratchet and she's a nympho...but she's deliciously ratchet. So far, she's been doing the damn thing so I can't be mad at her.

But she needs to realize that her clock is ticking.

[quoteYou're saying Rihanna's fake? Says it all! The thing is, we know know with hindsight that heavy drugs use is a bad thing. We didn't know (or care) back then because it was a time of exploration and discovery. Doesn't stop the music being just as brilliant and important. But we also had great dance music that was drug-inspired (acid house/ baggy/ techno) - some of the most revolutionary music of all time has been helped by drug use.[/quote]

You're right. It's good music...but drug use is not good. And it has never been good.

But - i'm guessing with all the known health warning theses days - those days are gone. There hasn't been a drug-inspired/ assisted music/ youth movement now for nearly 20 years.

That's because they have little to no talent.

You need talent to make good music, with or without weed.

I can't speak for Britain but I know that in America, drugs are still very, very popular in this whole youth movement. And yes, they still use it to help them make music.

But the homogenisation and normalisation of increasingly explicit sexual material (Rihanna/ Beyonce/ GaGa/ later Britney etc) targeting children coupled with a homgenisation of music into a bland dance/ hip hop hybrid is doubly depressing. Thank god for Gotye/ Fun/ Carly Rae/ Marina/ La Roux/ Florence/ Ellie...

Don't just blame the ladies. The fellas are just as responsible...if not more.

The majority of R&B music made by men nowadays ends up being porn with a nasty groove.

Yes I did just pay homage to Janet Jackson. Recognize!

I'm not a hardcore Elvis stan or anything, but the whole "he stole and never gave credit" thing has been this urban legend after he died. I've seen enough documentaries (such as "This Is Elvis" from 1981) about him that show that when Elvis was alive, he actually was very vocal about who influenced him and acknowledged that he grew up around black music and the sort. The whole "Elvis was a racist thief" thing is mostly something that has come around in the past ten years. Elvis was just as vocal about where he was influenced as The Rolling Stones were.

Didn't he try to weasel the rights to I Will Always Love You from Dolly Parton? And didn't he basically steal one of his signature songs, Hound Dog?

I never said nor did I imply he was racist.

But honestly, I've never seen or heard anything about Elvis crediting his inspirations and I've never heard anyone really talk about that. But I've heard tons and tons of people say/suggest that Elvis Presley was the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel; that he was so original and unique.

Sorry for speaking prematurely...I'll do some more research.

[neoepzilon]

I swear I read opening post, and I was like "waiting for moment when this turns into Beyonce discussion"!! And it did ofcourse

He simply did not have to bash current artists to show that he misses or appreciates artists of the past.

There are a lot of superficial and immature perspectives here, though. This thread is a mess, lol.

@NothingFails, thanks for the conversation. You made great points

[biscuits]

The majority of R&B music made by men nowadays ends up being porn with a nasty groove.

Yes I did just pay homage to Janet Jackson. Recognize!

Thank you.

[NothingFails]

Didn't he try to weasel the rights to I Will Always Love You from Dolly Parton? And didn't he basically steal one of his signature songs, Hound Dog?

I never said nor did I imply he was racist.

But honestly, I've never seen or heard anything about Elvis crediting his inspirations and I've never heard anyone really talk about that. But I've heard tons and tons of people say/suggest that Elvis Presley was the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel; that he was so original and unique.

Sorry for speaking prematurely...I'll do some more research.

Elvis has been accused of racism many times though. I remember Mary J. Blige called him one at some award show. Even though I have a hard time grasping that anyone who would sing "If I Can Dream" right after Martin Luther King's assassination and when the civil rights movement was at its apex would be a racist.

Elvis wasn't a songwriter, but he did pay to own the publishing rights of all the songs he recorded. It's why despite many cover songs he did, he never covered The Beatles or The Rolling Stones (or as mentioned, I Will Always Love You) because Lennon, Jagger and Dolly amongst others weren't going to part with the publishing rights just so they could boast Elvis covered them.

At least judging from what was discussed in the This Is Elvis documentary film, Elvis actually gave money to the original songwriters of songs like Hound Dog and others because he felt they deserved a share of the success. He was very vocal in early interviews about the artists who influenced him. He certainly wasn't the most original artist but I do think that he has been a bit underrated in recent years because he is known as a guy who stole and passed it off as original.

[android]

How did Elvis steal "Hound Dog" ? The song writing genius of Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller who wrote the song is well recognized. I would also blame a ruthless Colonel Tom Parker who was Elvis manager at the time for trying to get Dolly to sign over half of the publishing rights to any song Elvis recorded which came to nought anyway as Parton rightly refused, and good on her. Why select a few minor incidents to slur a man who is one of the most popular American singers of the 20th century?

[joel77m77]

I swear I read opening post, and I was like "waiting for moment when this turns into Beyonce discussion"!! And it did ofcourse

But it was a civil and a reasonable Beyonce discussion.

So we're in the clear...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I've read a few users saying this thread is a mess, but for me, this thread is really interesting.
Firstly, even though I try my best to be unbiased towards music (except Beyonce ) like I will listen to rock and enjoy it but also listen to R&B/Blues and enjoy that as well, I've learned a lot about other users view towards music.
Secondly, I have learned so much about artists like Elvis, which I never knew before I read this thread, so I am glad this thread was made as I've been taught a lot of information I never knew before reading it.

Plus, when someone mentioned about The Rolling Stones being influenced by R&B/Blues music, was I the only one who thought of the film Cadillac Records when The Rolling Stones went up to I think it was Muddy Waters and told him that he inspired them musically. Or was it just me?

[neoepzilon]

So JimmyPage just came, created a hit thread, and doesn't participate in the ensuing conversation.

[biscuits]

So JimmyPage just came, created a hit thread, and doesn't participate in the ensuing conversation.

This thread has gone way off topic since the original post.

[Wayne]

^ It has, but there's many interesting points nonetheless.

I apologise to Titan too for my making it personal.

[Titan3510]

^ It's all good. Don't worry about it...

So...I have a hard time understand what the original point of this thread was?

Are we discussing beast rock bands and how underrated they are here?

[jpguy]

People need to just live and let live.