Financial mess in Europe - France to fall soon?

[jio]

My heart goes out to the Greeks and everyone else but they've been living for decades above their means. Sorry to say but my overall perception of Greece, Spain and Portugal are that they are lazy and needed a real life and real job....

Well, now they have it.

And you need to learn to get your facts straight before talking...

[jpguy]

I didn't know Greece was in such a bad position amongst Europpean countries!

[stevyy]

I didn't know Greece was in such a bad position amongst Europpean countries!

there are two reasons that let to Greece becoming a member of the EU in I guess the 1970's:

1st: Russia and the west were trying to get Greece on their sides. And I think the US pushed the "EU" (back then it wasn't called that) to take it as a member so the western ally would get stronger in Europe (because the cold war was still going strong)

2nd: Greece forged its annual economonic reports to look better on paper and to actually fulfill some basic economic guidelines that the "EU" set during that time.

I think Greece wouldn't have made it, had they not done that. But the main reason why Greece became a member state was the cold war.

[Marius]

2nd: Greece forged its annual economonic reports to look better on paper and to actually fulfill some basic economic guidelines that the "EU" set during that time.

That happened before they joined the Euro, rather than the EU. They dodged the debt to GDP ratio by disguising some debts using swaps (financial instruments) and lied outright about the level of the budget deficit.

[ferrero]

Bank exposure to European debt (just click on each country)

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/11/0 ... 11_SB.html

France will sink Europe...they have got 500b stuck in Spain and Italy alone

[samra]

I'm so thankful that I live in Australia when I here news about the EU... I hope someone takes initiative and leadership of this problem and provides a resolution.

[preyan]

My heart goes out to the Greeks and everyone else but they've been living for decades above their means. Sorry to say but my overall perception of Greece, Spain and Portugal are that they are lazy and needed a real life and real job....

Well, now they have it.

And you need to learn to get your facts straight before talking...

It's called perceptions and opinions son. I guess the facts back it up from the looks of things

[jio]

My heart goes out to the Greeks and everyone else but they've been living for decades above their means. Sorry to say but my overall perception of Greece, Spain and Portugal are that they are lazy and needed a real life and real job....

Well, now they have it.

And you need to learn to get your facts straight before talking...

It's called perceptions and opinions son. I guess the facts back it up from the looks of things

Do they? please provide me those facts that you are talking about...

[Rihab95]

It's not like your comments were based on anything else but your personal opinion either.

I don't know where you heard that but I can ensure you that absolutely nobody here thinks Greeks are lazy, not doing enough to get out of the crisis or that throwing Greece out of the Euro would help somehow.

And our politicians do not think we'll have a better life if the Euro bites the dust and we return to the Deutsche Mark. Why do you think were we one of the first to think about and introduce the Euro then? Because we wanted to stop economic well-being or what?

Of course Germany is not going to pay forever though and honestly no one could or should expect the contrary. This is a currency union and not a model of a perfect world where the big and rich ones (we are not even rich by the way, we probably have more debts than anyone else) pay for the small and poor ones.
If it was the other way round and Germany needed help somehow nobody would have ever spent a Cent I'm sure.

The project Euro hasn't failed yet but it definitely already started to take the wrong course when suddenly almost every country was allowed to join it and on the other hand others were allowed to keep their own currency.

+ Everybody should immediately stop acting like Germany could cause another world war any moment, we don't even have a real army anymore.

[summer]

+ Everybody should immediately stop acting like Germany could cause another world war any moment.

Nobody's expecting that

[stevyy]

+ Everybody should immediately stop acting like Germany could cause another world war any moment.

Nobody's expecting that

british and french newspapers are full of such insinuations. The greece right-movement acts as if any help, or any proposition coming from Germany is a severe intrusion on greece-pride.

German money is OK but anything beyond that is inacceptable for most countries.

I know and I understand that no country wants to dominated by any other one. But nobody can change the fact that the biggest economy holds the highest responsibilities.

[jio]

First of all, I am sorry if I sounded anti-german. I am not. If you noticed, I support the chancellor's position that eurobonds are not the solution (in the short or mid-term).

Second, the assertion that German money are spent bailing-out countries selfishly or in a great extent is wrong. German money are spent protecting the German economy and nowhere else.

Third, there has been some kind of movement at the recent summit, allowing the bail out funds to bail out banks directly. That's a positive step. Unfortunately it took my country's complete downfall for others to move and make it happen and still it doesn't go far enough.

Fourth, yes many people feel that this is some kind of economic war from the north against the south. If you lived in Greece, you wouldn't blame them (I don't live there either, but I know plenty of people who do). That said, I think it is simply extremely lacking leadership along with domestic politics being far higher in the agenda than the euro's survival. And stevyy, you are talking about the greek far-right which is far from mainstream in Greece even now

Fifth, Rihab Germany wasn't one of the first to think about the euro, it was dragged into the euro by France, in essence it was the price you had to pay for reunification. Not that it matters in anyway, just let's keep the facts straight here.

[ferrero]

France won't fall soon but at some point a bit further in the future. Just to test the theory I bought US shares and sold French ones, I'll let you know in 12 months how I've done.

So... how have u done?

[Marius]

France won't fall soon but at some point a bit further in the future. Just to test the theory I bought US shares and sold French ones, I'll let you know in 12 months how I've done.

So... how have u done?

I closed that position quickly after. However, i am now long (buy) Eurostoxx and short (sell) the French index, not much changed in the last six weeks.

[jio]

The more I read the comments in such threads (mine included but not only), the more I realize that the EU is dead and we are just waiting for its death to be announced. Sad.

[BLover]

My heart goes out to the Greeks and everyone else but they've been living for decades above their means. Sorry to say but my overall perception of Greece, Spain and Portugal are that they are lazy and needed a real life and real job....

Well, now they have it.

And you need to learn to get your facts straight before talking...

It's called perceptions and opinions son. I guess the facts back it up from the looks of things

LOL at "the looks of things".
Not many things are as they seem.

[Wayne]

The more I read the comments in such threads (mine included but not only), the more I realize that the EU is dead and we are just waiting for its death to be announced. Sad.

I second this.

It worked for a while. That being said, I feel nervous about what would be after the EU's demise, should it ever happen.

[jio]

Well. the first thing the EU's collapse would cause are amazing street parties in Madrid, Lisbon, Athens, Rome, Nicosia and probably London too... can't wait:))))

[Haribo]

lol, trying to attack my place?

[Rihab95]

lol, trying to attack my place?

He's pressed like a panini and his arguments are weaker than Britney's knees, nothing new, poor soul.

[stevyy]

if the eu should ever collapse - what i don't still will ever happen - France/Germany and the other core EU countries will form a new union. Europe cannot survive without a strong union between the continents biggest "powers".

[JasonJ]

Amazing how people continue to give Merkel the bad rep...
Really Ah Ma Zing....

[jio]

if the eu should ever collapse - what i don't still will ever happen - France/Germany and the other core EU countries will form a new union. Europe cannot survive without a strong union between the continents biggest "powers".

Your idea sounds nice on the ears but it doesn't hold true in any serious analysis. If you want I can give you one very easily:)

[jio]

Amazing how people continue to give Merkel the bad rep...
Really Ah Ma Zing....

Amazing how people can be so ignorant I say...

[android]

if the eu should ever collapse - what i don't still will ever happen - France/Germany and the other core EU countries will form a new union. Europe cannot survive without a strong union between the continents biggest "powers".

Your idea sounds nice on the ears but it doesn't hold true in any serious analysis. If you want I can give you one very easily:)

At the moment things are terrible and Europe's leaders have let its people down badly but Europe will survive maybe bruised and sore for some time but with with a combined population of over 500 million inhabitants in 2012 it still has a nominal GDP of 16.584 trillion US dollars. Its people are well educated, highly skilled and having free movement of people, goods, services and capital does have benefits.