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**playeru** · Fri July 8, 2005, 15:42

I think most of his american sales from the 50s, 60s where single sales. Back then singles were really big, not like now.

**pepster** · Fri July 8, 2005, 16:12

170 million, maybe that's combined sales of his albums and singles in the US. By the RIAA his album sales are certified at 117 million making the biggest solo act in US history.

**MJDangerous** · Fri July 8, 2005, 16:17

Originally posted by pepster

170 million, maybe that's combined sales of his albums and singles in the US. By the RIAA his album sales are certified at 117 million making the biggest solo act in US history.

Many members of this forum speak about 170m albums and 110m singles, maybe 300m records sold in USA, but I not agree.

**pepster** · Fri July 8, 2005, 16:22

I just checked the RIAA website moments ago and his album sales are at 116.5 million. I don't believe the 170 million. He couldn't have outsold the beatles who are at 168.5 million for album sales in the US.

http://www.riaa.com/gp/bestsellers/topartists.asp

**hampton** · Fri July 8, 2005, 16:44

Originally posted by pepster

I just checked the RIAA website moments ago and his album sales are at 116.5 million. I don't believe the 170 million. He couldn't have outsold the beatles who are at 168.5 million for album sales in the US.

http://www.riaa.com/gp/bestsellers/topartists.asp

Co-sign, Elvis-Stans be making up numbers :evil:

**nelson** · Fri July 8, 2005, 17:54

Until now, there's no good points and good arguments as you expected, lol. :-?

**pepster** · Fri July 8, 2005, 18:01

What more proof do people need than the RIAA. They have the official numbers so if people want to believe the 170 million over the certifications of RIAA that's their choice.

**MJDangerous** · Fri July 8, 2005, 18:09

Originally posted by pepster

What more proof do people need than the RIAA. They have the official numbers so if people want to believe the 170 million over the certifications of RIAA that's their choice.

I don't agree with 170m sales figure, but this argument is not good : Certifications of RIAA are not always very reliable...

**pepster** · Fri July 8, 2005, 18:14

I agree. Sometimes they under certify artists for example (Janet Jackson). But as far as Elvis there's a huge difference between 170 million (Elvis Fans) and 117 million (RIAA) certifications. There's noway he can be under certified that much sorry Elvis fans.

**Sagan** · Fri July 8, 2005, 20:21

Originally posted by pepster

What more proof do people need than the RIAA. They have the official numbers so if people want to believe the 170 million over the certifications of RIAA that's their choice.

The RIAA only counts whole round numbers: 500,000 for gold and full millions for platinum and multiple platinum. That means that an album that sells (actually ships) 1.1 million copies counts as much as an album that sells 1,9 million - 900,000 copies are "lost" in the RIAA totals for the latter album.
On average 0,5 million sales are lost for a platinum album and 0,25 million sales for gold albums.

For an artist with a small catalog, for example Britney, these "lost" sales are relatively small - in Britney's case 2 million (4 platinum albums).

However for an artist like Elvis, who has a huge catalog, this factor is compounded to big numbers.
Here's a calculation I did, based on the current RIAA database.

Elvis' gold albums (43)
Certified: (43*0.5) 21.5 million
Minus cert. double albums: 20.6 million
Lost sales: (43*0.25) 10.8 million
Real sales gold albums (20.6+10.8): 31.4 million

Elvis' platinum/multi-platinum albums (55)
Certified: 102 million
Minus cert. double albums: 92.8 million
Lost sales: (55*0.5) 27.5 million
Real sales platinum albums (92.8+27.5): 120.3 million

Total real sales (31.4+120.3): 151.7 million

This is not the complete picture - Elvis released a whole lot more than the 98 albums that were certified by the RIAA. Several sources report that more than 320 albums by Elvis have been released only in the USA. The number is probably higher, as the report s are not very recent and new Elvis albums are released almost every two months.

Let's say that each of these un-certified albums sell on average 250,000 copies.
A quick look at the calculator learns us that another 55.5 million albums (222*0.25 million) have to be added to the above number.

Sales of 98 albums based on RIAA certifications: 151.7 million
Sales of 222 uncertified albums: 55.5 million.

Total US Elvis Presley album sales: 207.2 million.

If we take a more conservative average number (100,000) for the uncertified albums, the total is still huge:

RIAA albums: 151.7 million
Not certified: 22.2 million
Total US Elvis Presley album sales: 173.9 million

**Basil** · Fri July 8, 2005, 20:27

Originally posted by MJDangerous

Originally posted by pepster

What more proof do people need than the RIAA. They have the official numbers so if people want to believe the 170 million over the certifications of RIAA that's their choice.

I don't agree with 170m sales figure, but this argument is not good : Certifications of RIAA are not always very reliable...

If you are going to discuss statistics, it helps to have the right ones.

The riaa site has quite a few errors. In the top artists they list, I found the totals of 11 in the first 26 to be incorrect.

The corrected riaa list can be found at

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... 47&start=0

Anyway, these riaa "totals" include double albums and box sets which have been counted more than once.

These are the true figures.

Elvis

117.5m shipments.

When you remove the extra units, they total is

97.62 million ACTUAL albums shipped.

This must be your starting figure in any debate you might have.

As a comparison

The Beatles

167.5m shipments

Again, removing all the extra units the total is

130.85 million ACTUAL albums shipped.

**nelson** · Fri July 8, 2005, 20:30

This point brings to another level of thinking, well, it could be, but not that much. Because it based on assumption, assume that missing numbers to "all albums", it might be half, or zero, however, with Elvis this kind of legendary singer, label would ask cerfifications as much as possible if the sales reach any other new peak..

**nelson** · Fri July 8, 2005, 20:36

Until now, it still doesn't reach another level...
what about my sales?

based on certifications all over the world in 20 selected countries...

137,537,609

(will wait to see what's sales in UK, as UK sales are so low, less certified albums)
(and most countries' certifications are started from 1970 and 1990, so missing some... is not surprise)

**Sagan** · Fri July 8, 2005, 20:53

Originally posted by nelson

This point brings to another level of thinking, well, it could be, but not that much. Because it based on assumption, assume that missing numbers to "all albums", it might be half, or zero, however, with Elvis this kind of legendary singer, label would ask cerfifications as much as possible if the sales reach any other new peak..

It is that much, because of the enormous number of different Elvis albums.

The averages are not based on assumptions, it's based on statistical laws and rules.
The sales/shipments of a platinum album are between 1 million and 1,999,999 copies. The average for 2 or 3 albums is possibly 1,2 million. However if the population is higher, e.g. 100 albums, the average is very close to the median.

BTW I've edited my initial post - I made a couple of errors and I added a 2nd calculation for total albums, taking into account a more conservative average for not certified albums.

**nelson** · Fri July 8, 2005, 21:07

You are a studying now or talking about sales?
Of course you can't put those statistics law into this discussion, 1st year uni-mate (yes, I know that because your idea presented here explained it), in the statistic law (in your uni), considering all factors are in control, they would have those outcome, but in the real world, all things are not in control, how much we can use formula to calculate, don't you have to consider other factors? Yeah, you seemed like you didn't think about other factors. :-?

between 1 million and 1,999,999 copies

And I don't think RIAA would be stupid to think about this question since they don't say that platinum should be over 1 million in their rules "strictly", don't you think RIAA would round up numbers if sales is approximately close to peak? :-?

**Sagan** · Fri July 8, 2005, 21:14

Originally posted by Basil

These are the true figures.

Elvis

117.5m shipments.

When you remove the extra units, they total is

97.62 million ACTUAL albums shipped.

When did you access the RIAA site? The 117.5 number is about 2 years old, I think.

I did it just now, copied the complete Elvis album certification list in a spreadsheet, and arrived at the following figures:

(actual totals, sans extras, between brackets)
43 gold: 21.5 (20.6) million
32 platinum: 32 (30.6) million
23 multi-platinum: 70 (62.2) million

Total 123.5m shipments, acutal number: 113.4m

I may have missed one or two of the double albums, but I'm sure my numbers are very close to the correct ones.

**MJDangerous** · Fri July 8, 2005, 21:17

Originally posted by Sagan

Originally posted by nelson

This point brings to another level of thinking, well, it could be, but not that much. Because it based on assumption, assume that missing numbers to "all albums", it might be half, or zero, however, with Elvis this kind of legendary singer, label would ask cerfifications as much as possible if the sales reach any other new peak..

It is that much, because of the enormous number of different Elvis albums.

The averages are not based on assumptions, it's based on statistical laws and rules.
The sales/shipments of a platinum album are between 1 million and 1,999,999 copies. The average for 2 or 3 albums is possibly 1,2 million. However if the population is higher, e.g. 100 albums, the average is very close to the median.

BTW I've edited my initial post - I made a couple of errors and I added a 2nd calculation for total albums, taking into account a more conservative average for not certified albums.

It's true... But only if you suppose that certifications are give at the exact level of shipment, a false supposition.
A platinum album with a certification actualise have more chance to be between 700k and 1.7k sold that between 1m and 2m.

Forget estimations albums by albums : It's impossible, 320 albums ? 200 of whom never enter on charts ! How you want estimate those sales ? Look to year by year sales...
Sales of Elvis between 1980 and 2005 are around 40m in USA (24.5m soundscan and an -no conservative- estimate of 15.5m between 1980-1990).
I don't believe a sales figure of 130m between 1955 and 1979, it's to high ! It's equal at 5.2m by year, it's clearly not realist.

**Basil** · Fri July 8, 2005, 21:32

Originally posted by Sagan

Originally posted by Basil

These are the true figures.

Elvis

117.5m shipments.

When you remove the extra units, they total is

97.62 million ACTUAL albums shipped.

When did you access the RIAA site? The 117.5 number is about 2 years old, I think.

I did it just now, copied the complete Elvis album certification list in a spreadsheet, and arrived at the following figures:

(actual totals, sans extras, between brackets)
43 gold: 21.5 (20.6) million
32 platinum: 32 (30.6) million
23 multi-platinum: 70 (62.2) million

Total 123.5m shipments, acutal number: 113.4m

I may have missed one or two of the double albums, but I'm sure my numbers are very close to the correct ones.

You missed a lot of double albums and boxed sets.

Have you read everything on the riaa site and beyond? It took me months to research this. Every single album. Researching the Elvis discography and every date. It depends on whether it was 2LP 2CD and the date it was released and certified. Same applies to the box set. Hence the exact figure of 97.62m. Please give me some credit, I'm not just bandying figures around.

Also, briefly in the early 90's, the riaa allowed EP's to be certified Gold for sales of only 250,000. In that window of opportunity, RCA certified his old 50's EP's - which were 7 inch records with 4 tracks. These are not albums.

**Basil** · Fri July 8, 2005, 21:41

Originally posted by nelson

And I don't think RIAA would be stupid to think about this question since they don't say that platinum should be over 1 million in their rules "strictly", don't you think RIAA would round up numbers if sales is approximately close to peak? :-?

Come on Nelson. You know the riaa rules. A record company wish to claim an award. Say Platinum. They have to apply to the riaa. The riaa say, present the figures to the independent auditors. If the record company can prove that they have shipped 1 million copies, they are given the Platinum award.

If the albums goes on to ship 1,990,000 copies, this means nothing. It must ship past the 2m mark to be considered for double platinum. They never round up the numbers ever.

The Gold and Platinum awards programme was started to prevent all the abuses that were occuring in the 1950's regarding false claims for sales.

**Sagan** · Fri July 8, 2005, 22:05

Originally posted by Basil

You missed a lot of double albums and boxed sets.

Have you read everything on the riaa site and beyond? It took me months to research this. Every single album. Researching the Elvis discography and every date. It depends on whether it was 2LP 2CD and the date it was released and certified. Same applies to the box set. Hence the exact figure of 97.62m. Please give me some credit, I'm not just bandying figures around.

Also, briefly in the early 90's, the riaa allowed EP's to be certified Gold for sales of only 250,000. In that window of opportunity, RCA certified his old 50's EP's - which were 7 inch records with 4 tracks. These are not albums.

I included the EP's, which are called "shortform albums" by the RIAA.
I believe the RIAA also included the EPs in their calculation of album totals, hence the 117 million reported in August 2003.

This is my calculation, which excludes the EPs:

(actual totals, sans extras, between brackets)
37 gold: 18.5 (17.6) million
22 platinum: 22 (20.6) million
23 multi-platinum: 70 (62.2) million

Total 110.5m shipments, actual number: 100.4m

That's very close to your number.

I found the following multi-disc albums in the RIAA list:

Gold:
FROM MEMPHIS TO VEGAS (double)
PLATINUM: A LIFE IN MUSIC (4-disc set)
THIS IS ELVIS (double)

Platinum:
50 YEARS - 50 HITS (double)
ELVIS ARON PRESLEY (8-disc set)
ELVIS IN CONCERT (double)
THE KING OF ROCK N ROLL: THE COMPLETE 50'S MASTERS (5-disc set)
THE TOP TEN HITS (double)
WORLD GOLD AWARDS VOLUME I & II (double)
WORLDWIDE 50 GOLD AWARD HITS, VOLUME 1 (8-disc set)

Are there any more?

**MJDangerous** · Fri July 8, 2005, 22:26

One question :

Only one "Love Me Tender" album of Elvis enter in the charts (in 1957), an EP.
This EP go Platinum (500.000 in consequence) in 1992 with the mention "Soundtrack".
In 2004, an album "Love Me Tender" go Gold (500.000). It's the same (a mistake by the RIAA ?) or Elvis really release 2 albums called "Love Me Tender" ?

**Basil** · Fri July 8, 2005, 22:48

[quote="Sagan"]
I included the EP's, which are called "shortform albums" by the RIAA.
I believe the RIAA also included the EPs in their calculation of album totals, hence the 117 million reported in August 2003.

This is my calculation, which excludes the EPs:

(actual totals, sans extras, between brackets)
37 gold: 18.5 (17.6) million
22 platinum: 22 (20.6) million
23 multi-platinum: 70 (62.2) million

Total 110.5m shipments, actual number: 100.4m

quote]

Hi Sagan

You have to look much closer. You must take every 2LP/4LP/8LP and 2CD/3CD/4CD/5CD set and check the date of certification. On top of that you must look at all the dates of CD issue (there may be more than one with different numbers of tracks) and when and if 2LP sets became 1CD or 2CD and when they were certified and what the rules were that year. There have been 5 rule changes for multi-album sets. This will take weeks as you must investigate every single album and it's whole re-issue history individually. Then you can then finally add it all up to get a total.

The EP's account for 7.5m sales of the 117.5m total. The current riaa total of 116.5 million is just plain wrong.

**MJDangerous** · Fri July 8, 2005, 23:28

Originally posted by MJDangerous

One question :

Only one "Love Me Tender" album of Elvis enter in the charts (in 1957), an EP.
This EP go Platinum (500.000 in consequence) in 1992 with the mention "Soundtrack".
In 2004, an album "Love Me Tender" go Gold (500.000). It's the same (a mistake by the RIAA ?) or Elvis really release 2 albums called "Love Me Tender" ?

Nobody know ? I found nowhere an album called "Love Me Tender" in Elvis discography.

Many strange things in Elvis certifications. An example :
"You'll Never Walk Alone" :
- Release date : 1971
- High Peak : #69
- Weeks on Charts : 12

It's only a studio album (no a greatest hits box) and non-the one of its better ones. This album go Gold in 1992, ok, Platinum in 1999, why not, but 3xPlatinum in 2004 ??

**Sagan** · Fri July 8, 2005, 23:34

Originally posted by Basil

Originally posted by Sagan

I included the EP's, which are called "shortform albums" by the RIAA.
I believe the RIAA also included the EPs in their calculation of album totals, hence the 117 million reported in August 2003.

This is my calculation, which excludes the EPs:

(actual totals, sans extras, between brackets)
37 gold: 18.5 (17.6) million
22 platinum: 22 (20.6) million
23 multi-platinum: 70 (62.2) million

Total 110.5m shipments, actual number: 100.4m

quote]

Hi Sagan

You have to look much closer. You must take every 2LP/4LP/8LP and 2CD/3CD/4CD/5CD set and check the date of certification. On top of that you must look at all the dates of CD issue (there may be more than one with different numbers of tracks) and when and if 2LP sets became 1CD or 2CD and when they were certified and what the rules were that year. There have been 5 rule changes for multi-album sets. This will take weeks as you must investigate every single album and it's whole re-issue history individually. Then you can then finally add it all up to get a total.

The EP's account for 7.5m sales of the 117.5m total. The current riaa total of 116.5 million is just plain wrong.

Agreed with your last statement. Remember, the RIAA number total includes EPs and it's two years old.

Regarding the multi disc sets: would you take a look at the following list and check out the errors?

The first column indicates the certification level in millions, the second the actual number, based on the number of discs of the album.

Code:

ELVIS' GOLD ALBUMS (37)		
		
cert	sal	Title
0.5	0.5	A LEGENDARY PERFORMER. VOLUME 3
0.5	0.5	BLUE CHRISTMAS
0.5	0.5	C'MON EVERYBODY
0.5	0.5	ELVIS
0.5	0.5	ELVIS - THAT'S THE WAY IT IS
0.5	0.5	ELVIS COUNTRY
0.5	0.5	ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS. VOLUME 4
0.5	0.5	ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS. VOLUME 5
0.5	0.5	ELVIS IN PERSON
0.5	0.5	ELVIS IS BACK
0.5	0.5	ELVIS NOW
0.5	0.5	ELVIS PRESLEY
0.5	0.5	ELVIS PRESLEY GOSPEL TREASURY
0.5	0.5	FROM ELVIS IN MEMPHIS
0.5	0.5	FROM ELVIS PRESLEY BLVD.. MEMPHIS. TENNESSEE
0.5	0.25	FROM MEMPHIS TO VEGAS
0.5	0.5	GIRL HAPPY
0.5	0.5	GIRLS. GIRLS. GIRLS
0.5	0.5	HE WALKS BESIDE ME - FAV. SONGS OF FAITH & INSPIR.
0.5	0.5	HEART AND SOUL
0.5	0.5	HIS SONGS OF INSPIRATION
0.5	0.5	I GOT LUCKY
0.5	0.5	KING CREOLE
0.5	0.5	LOVE ME TENDER
0.5	0.5	LOVING YOU
0.5	0.5	MEMORIES OF CHRISTMAS
0.5	0.5	MEMORIES OF ELVIS
0.5	0.125	PLATINUM: A LIFE IN MUSIC
0.5	0.5	RECORDED LIVE ON STAGE IN MEMPHIS
0.5	0.5	ROUSTABOUT
0.5	0.5	SOMETHING FOR EVERYBODY
0.5	0.5	THE COMPLETE SUN SESSIONS
0.5	0.5	THE LEGEND LIVES ON
0.5	0.5	THE OTHER SIDES-WORLDWIDE GOLD AWARD HITS VOL. 2
0.5	0.5	THE ROCK 'N' ROLL ERA
0.5	0.25	THIS IS ELVIS
0.5	0.5	WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES-THE ESSENTIAL 70'S MASTERS
18.5	17.625	Total gold
		
ELVIS' PLATINUM ALBUMS (45)		
1	1	2ND TO NONE
2	1	50 YEARS - 50 HITS
2	2	A LEGENDARY PERFORMER. VOLUME 1
2	2	A LEGENDARY PERFORMER. VOLUME 2
1	1	ALMOST IN LOVE
5	5	ALOHA FROM HAWAII
2	2	AMAZING GRACE-HIS GREATEST SACRED PERFORMANCES
3	3	BLUE HAWAII
2	2	BURNING LOVE AND HITS FROM HIS MOVIES. VOLUME 2
1	1	DOUBLE DYNAMITE
3	3	ELV1S: 30 #1 HITS
1	0.125	ELVIS ARON PRESLEY
3	3	ELVIS AS RECORDED AT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
9	9	ELVIS' CHRISTMAS ALBUM
3	3	ELVIS' CHRISTMAS ALBUM (ORIGINAL)
6	6	ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS. VOLUME 1
1	1	ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS. VOLUME 2
1	1	ELVIS' GOLDEN RECORDS. VOLUME 3
3	1.5	ELVIS IN CONCERT
1	1	ELVIS SINGS HITS FROM HIS MOVIES. VOL. 1
1	1	ELVIS TV SPECIAL
1	1	ELVIS! HIS GREATEST HITS
1	1	FLAMING STAR
1	1	FRANKIE & JOHNNY
1	1	FROM NASHVILLE TO MEMPHIS
1	1	G.I. BLUES
1	1	HE TOUCHED ME
1	1	HIS HAND IN MINE
2	2	HOW GREAT THOU ART
1	1	IF EVERY DAY WAS LIKE CHRISTMAS
1	1	IT'S CHRISTMAS TIME
1	1	LET'S BE FRIENDS
2	2	MOODY BLUE
1	1	ON STAGE FEBRUARY 1970
2	2	PURE GOLD
1	1	SEPARATE WAYS
2	2	THE ELVIS PRESLEY STORY
2	0.4	THE KING OF ROCK N ROLL: THE COMPLETE 50'S MASTERS
3	3	THE NUMBER ONE HITS
4	2	THE TOP TEN HITS
3	3	THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF CHRISTMAS
1	1	WELCOME TO MY WORLD
1	0.5	WORLD GOLD AWARDS VOLUME I & II
2	0.25	WORLDWIDE 50 GOLD AWARD HITS. VOLUME 1
3	3	YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE
92.0	82.8	Total platinum	
		
110.5	100.4	Total general

Announcement

Elvis Presley :: Charts & Sales History

Elvis Presley :: Charts & Sales History

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