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  • R.E.M. :: Charts & Sales History

    im thinkin'
    Everything before out of time: 10 mil
    Out of Time: 10 mil
    Automatic for the People: 15 mil
    Monster: 10 Mil
    New Advantures in Hi-fi: 8 mil
    Up: 7 mil
    Reveal: 5 mil
    In Time: 3 mil
    Around the Sun: 4 mil
    Singles Etc : 6 mil
    TOTAL: ~80 million records sold??
    correct me if im wrong
    www.pawnshopppe.blogspot.com <-- for all ur music needs

  • #2
    I agree with your overall 80m figure but there's no way 'New Adventures...' sold 8m nor 'Up' 7m...

    Per record here's what i'd say :

    Everything before out of time: 15 mil (4m for Green + 3m for Document + 1.75m each for Murmur, Reckoning, Fables Of The Reconstruction & Life Rich Pageant + 1m for Dead Letter Office)
    Out of Time: 14 mil (cert. 4m US / 4,420,840 SoundScan figure as at Dec 2003, approx 1.7m UK, 5xPlat in Spain - today this = 500k, not sure about back when it was certfied though)
    Automatic for the People: 14 mil (cert. 4m US / 3.5m SoundScan as at Oct 2003, approx 2.3m UK)
    Monster: 10 Mil (cert. 4m US, approx 1m UK - still 3xPlat, cert. 2m in Europe)
    New Adventures in Hi-fi: 6 mil (approx 1.2m US, approx 400k UK, cert. 2m Europe)
    Up: 3 mil (cert. 500k in US, approx 380k in UK - 356k sold in 1998-99, cert. for 1m Europe)
    Reveal: 3.5 mil (cert. 500k US, 364,653 in UK up to July 18th 2005, cert. 1m Europe)
    In Time: 4.5 mil (cert. 500k US, 1.32m UK, cert. 2m Europe, mediatraffic figure up to Feb 28th 2004 is 3.581m but has sold 250-300k in UK alone since)
    Around the Sun: 2 mil (cert. 500k US, 240,701 in UK up to July 18th 2005, cert. 1m Europe)

    Singles Etc : 8 mil

    TOTAL: ~80 million records sold

    Comment


    • #3
      Some notes:

      Out of time: soundscan december 03: 4,420,840
      Document: soundscan: 871,000(thanks Hanboo)

      Most of their US sales in the period 91-96 when soundscan covered 45%(in 1991 of course)

      Out of time certifies 2 platinum (1 million) in Germany 1n 1996
      Automatic certified 2 platinum in Germany in 2001.

      Comment


      • #4
        Pisha,

        Is that Dec 03 4,420,840 Out Of Time figure from Hanboo also ? i only ask because i thought he recently said 4.1m for Out Of Time.

        Also, Document is certified Platinum (1m) in US - not sure when though. I think it was still Gold (500k) up until SoundScan started which would mean it should now have sold at least 1.3m in US. Do you know when it was certified Platinum in US ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by edge3
          Pisha,

          Is that Dec 03 4,420,840 Out Of Time figure from Hanboo also ? i only ask because i thought he recently said 4.1m for Out Of Time.

          Also, Document is certified Platinum (1m) in US - not sure when though. I think it was still Gold (500k) up until SoundScan started which would mean it should now have sold at least 1.3m in US. Do you know when it was certified Platinum in US ?

          The figure for Oot is not from Hanboo, but in his analysis of the biggest sellers in the soundscan era he said that the top REM seller had sold 4,4 million copies and is clear that is Out of time.
          Document was certified platinum in US in January 1988.I think if it would be re-certified should be 3 platinum at least(remember 871,000 copies in soundscan era, most of them in the early years)

          Comment


          • #6
            OK, thx, i'll change my figures...

            &, yes, considering that 4,420,840 total must mostly be from when SoundScan first started i guess OOT should really now be 5, 6 maybe even 7xPlat in US.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by edge3
              OK, thx, i'll change my figures...

              &, yes, considering that 4,420,840 total must mostly be from when SoundScan first started i guess OOT should really now be 5, 6 maybe even 7xPlat in US.

              Yes "Out of time" was released on march 11,1991. I think even before soundscan started to track sales which i think it was in May ,91(i am not sure if it was in may or in march)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pisha
                Most of their US sales in the period 91-96 when soundscan covered 45%(in 1991 of course)
                It's true Soundscan figures were based on just 45% to begin with, but I believe the figure presented to the public was always 100%.

                Roughly said, if SS one week scanned 4,500 copies of "Out of time" they would add the missing 55% and present the title to the public (Billboard) as selling 10,000 that week.

                The way I see it, the 4,420,840 units you mentioned reported by Soundscan isn't the number actually scanned by Soundscan, but rather a calculated figure by Sounscan representing total sales in the US (minus sales through music clubs etc).

                One example is Garth Brooks "Roping the wind". His albums were regularly certified through the 90's right? The album scanned 8m combined in 1991 and 1992 link. If those 8m is just 45% of total scans, and you add sales through music clubs, and you add 2m from the box set link, and you add catalog sales since 1992 then why is that album just 14 x platinum???

                Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                Let there be rock!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dane
                  Originally posted by pisha
                  Most of their US sales in the period 91-96 when soundscan covered 45%(in 1991 of course)
                  It's true Soundscan figures were based on just 45% to begin with, but I believe the figure presented to the public was always 100%.

                  Roughly said, if SS one week scanned 4,500 copies of "Out of time" they would add the missing 55% and present the title to the public (Billboard) as selling 10,000 that week.

                  The way I see it, the 4,420,840 units you mentioned reported by Soundscan isn't the number actually scanned by Soundscan, but rather a calculated figure by Sounscan representing total sales in the US (minus sales through music clubs etc).

                  One example is Garth Brooks "Roping the wind". His albums were regularly certified through the 90's right? The album scanned 8m combined in 1991 and 1992 link. If those 8m is just 45% of total scans, and you add sales through music clubs, and you add 2m from the box set link, and you add catalog sales since 1992 then why is that album just 14 x platinum???

                  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                  Ah right, now that's exactly what Basil & others say too. Guess we've been getting a bit carried away with overall US sales for Document & Out Of Time then... unless they've both sold a load through music clubs & such like, which haven't been accounted for.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Then ,why albums like U2`s achtung baby with soundscan sales of 5 million was certified 8 platinum or Nirvana`s nevermind 10 platinum with soundscan sales of more than 6 million?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pisha
                      Then ,why albums like U2`s achtung baby with soundscan sales of 5 million was certified 8 platinum or Nirvana`s nevermind 10 platinum with soundscan sales of more than 6 million?
                      Good question Pisha : 1991's Nevermind was certified for shipments of 10m in 1999 but, yes, i believe it's actual SoundScan total at this point would have been somewhere between 6.5-7m. Similarly, 1991's Achtung Baby was certified for shipments of 8m in Aug 1997 but i believe it's actual SoundScan total at this point would have been somewhere between 4.5-5m. There are indeed also other albums released since SoundScan started that are in a similar situation to Achtung baby & Nevermind (see Basil's excellent 'Updated - USA's All Time Best Selling Artists and Albums' thread).

                      Now, in light of what Dane & others have now told us, the obvious answer as to why they were certified quite a bit higher than their actual sales, was because of the extra sales from Music Clubs (such as BMG) & such like, which SoundScan didn't include. The problem though seems to be that it's difficult to get hold of this info... i mean i haven't seen any available Music Club sales for Achtung Baby (& it would surely need to have about 3m up to Aug 1997 to have been certified 8xPlat) & Nevermind 'only' has 1,240,000 to date.

                      So maybe Hanboo or some other chart expert does, please, have this info ? or another idea as to why Achtung Baby & Nevermind appear to have been certified so much higher than their actual sales ? Thx in advance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here are some statistics
                        http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingda...merprofile.pdf

                        According to that in 1994 record clubs sales were the 15,1 % of the total,in 2003 the 4,1 %.

                        I dont know in 1991-1993, but even with a figure of 20% of the total sales in records clubs is difficult that an album with 4,5-5 million copies sold through soundscan (achtung baby) was able to sell another 3 million in records clubs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dane
                          Originally posted by pisha
                          Most of their US sales in the period 91-96 when soundscan covered 45%(in 1991 of course)
                          It's true Soundscan figures were based on just 45% to begin with, but I believe the figure presented to the public was always 100%.

                          Roughly said, if SS one week scanned 4,500 copies of "Out of time" they would add the missing 55% and present the title to the public (Billboard) as selling 10,000 that week.

                          The way I see it, the 4,420,840 units you mentioned reported by Soundscan isn't the number actually scanned by Soundscan, but rather a calculated figure by Sounscan representing total sales in the US (minus sales through music clubs etc).

                          One example is Garth Brooks "Roping the wind". His albums were regularly certified through the 90's right? The album scanned 8m combined in 1991 and 1992 link. If those 8m is just 45% of total scans, and you add sales through music clubs, and you add 2m from the box set link, and you add catalog sales since 1992 then why is that album just 14 x platinum???

                          Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                          I know that Hanboo & Basil say that sales are calculated at this time to get 100% of sales, but I really think that they are only scanned sales. For Garth Brooks, 45% was only for the begin of 91, 70-80% at the end of the year and nearly 95% at the end of 92 if I remember well. So his 14xPlatinum is logical considering that his albums are not avalaible throught BMG for example. If sales are calculated at this time, how is possible that an album not avalaible at BMG & Cie could be 14xP with less than 10m scanned ?
                          "Achtung Baby" will be 9xP or 10xP in the next U2 update, with 5,7m scanned only and not even the the BMG top 100 (less than 300k sold). So, 2 solutions : Sales are not calculated but scanned and in consequences many sales are missing for 91/92 albums, or, Achtung Baby sold nearly 4 millions throught Columbia ? The fisrt solution is clearly the most realistic.

                          Also, albums are in the top 10 soundscan year end chart of 1991 with only 1,4 million scanned ?! No way the #10 of the year sold so poor... Obviously impossible.

                          Concerning Out Of Time, this album was 4xP already at mid-1992, at this time music club sales are not even take in account by the RIAA. It still charted nearly 1 year + after his 4xP certifications. It should be at least 6xP, more likely 7xP.
                          25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Also...

                            Soundscan 1991 Top 10 (thanks Hanboo) :
                            4.0 Garth Brooks - Ropin' the Wind
                            3.4 Metallica - Metallica
                            3.2 Natalie Cole - Unforgettable
                            2.8 Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion II
                            2.2 Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion I
                            2.7 Michael Bolton - Time, Love and Tenderness
                            1.8 Hammer - Too Legit to Quit
                            1.8 Michael Jackson - Dangerous
                            1.6 Nirvana - Nevermind
                            1.4 U2 - Achtung Baby

                            Run of Out Of Time in 1991 :

                            30/03/1991 - Run: 27-16- 5-4-4-3-3-*1*-5-1-3-3-3-6-7-6-8-7-8-6-6-10-13- 10-13-11- 9-18-21-28-30-26-25-33-41-36-43-36-33-33

                            2 weeks #1
                            22 weeks top 10
                            27 weeks top 20
                            33 weeks charted (worst position #43)

                            According to soundscan it sold less than 1,4m in 1991.
                            Obviously half of sales are missing...
                            25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hmm, I guess there are examples for both statements.
                              How about this one, certification of "Metallica" and SS sales have been holding hands all the way from release in 1991 till now. If SS only reflected 45% of actual sales in 1991, then certification should be much higher for "Metallica".

                              In case of "Achtung Baby" and "Nevermind" some of the gaps between SS v. certification could (besides music clubs) be explained by returns. Remember certification is for shipped units and not actual sales.

                              True Garth Brooks "Roping the wind" has scanned less than 10m, but add the 2m from the box set and it's not that far out.
                              Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                              Let there be rock!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Dane
                                Hmm, I guess there are examples for both statements.
                                How about this one, certification of "Metallica" and SS sales have been holding hands all the way from release in 1991 till now. If SS only reflected 45% of actual sales in 1991, then certification should be much higher for "Metallica".

                                In case of "Achtung Baby" and "Nevermind" some of the gaps between SS v. certification could (besides music clubs) be explained by returns. Remember certification is for shipped units and not actual sales.

                                True Garth Brooks "Roping the wind" has scanned less than 10m, but add the 2m from the box set and it's not that far out.
                                Do maths. Everything show that sales are only scanned and not calculated.
                                Returns of 2-3 millions are impossible.

                                Again, do maths only :

                                For "Roping in the wind", 18 weeks at #1 and only 4,0 millions scanned ?! It's a joke... It was released in September. So, let's me do maths :

                                > 4 millions fourth quarter of 1991, soundscan concern about 70% of the territory mean about 5,7m sold in 1991, certified 6m in January.
                                > 4 millions in 1992, with an average of 85% of the territory scanned, about 4,7m sold.
                                1991-1992 = ~10,4 millions.
                                + 9,6m (actual soundscan sales) - 8 millions (1991/1992 soundscan sales) = 1,6 millions copies sold according to soundscan 1993-now.

                                10,4 millions (1991-1992) + 1,6 millions (1993-2005) + 2 millions (box sales) = 14 millions = RIAA certification.

                                All is logical !

                                Shipment are missing, which is logical too : It should be similar with sales between 98 and now (14xP in 1998, should be 15xP).

                                Now if soundscan have calculated sales in 91/92, we have 9,6 millions sold in soundscan + 2 millions in the box = 11,6 millions : Where are the 3,5 millions missing coming from ?



                                About Metallica, it is undercertified since ages like Dark Side Of The Moon, it should be at least 17m.

                                All albums of 91/92 seem overcertified due to those missing sales in Soundscan figures : Bodyguard, Ten (Pearl Jam), Neverming, Breathless (Kenny G), Unplugged of Clapton etc...
                                25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                  About Metallica, it is undercertified since ages like Dark Side Of The Moon, it should be at least 17m.
                                  Why? Upgrade from 12 to 13 came about 1 year late, but if upgraded to 15 this year the numbers match perfectly:

                                  Originally posted by Basil
                                  2) - Metallica - Metallica (1991)

                                  1991 - 3.4m - 3,400,000 sold in 1991
                                  1992 - 6.0m - 2,600,000 sold in 1992
                                  1993 - n/a
                                  1994 - n/a
                                  1995 - n/a
                                  1996 - n/a
                                  1997 - n/a
                                  1998 - n/a
                                  1999 - 11,715,533
                                  2000 - 12,441,854 - 726,321 sold in 2000
                                  2001 - 12,981,888 - 540,034 sold in 2001
                                  2002 - 13,332,320 - 350,432 sold in 2002
                                  2003 - 13,803,308 - 470,988 sold in 2003
                                  2004 - 14,213,000 - 409,692 sold in 2004
                                  2005 - 14,545,000 - 332,000 sold in 2005
                                  Code:
                                  Artist Title Cert. Date Label Award Desc. Format Category Type 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA P ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA M (3) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA G ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 01/17/92 ELEKTRA M (4) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 06/30/92 ELEKTRA M (5) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 12/10/92 ELEKTRA M (6) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 09/24/93 ELEKTRA M (7) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 02/02/95 ELEKTRA M (8) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 05/15/96 ELEKTRA M (9) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 11/03/97 ELEKTRA M (10) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 11/18/98 ELEKTRA M (11) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 12/06/99 ELEKTRA M (12) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 06/09/03 ELEKTRA M (13) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                  METALLICA METALLICA 12/17/03 ELEKTRA M (14) ALBUM GROUP Std
                                  Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                  All albums of 91/92 seem overcertified due to those missing sales in Soundscan figures : Bodyguard, Ten (Pearl Jam), Neverming, Breathless (Kenny G), Unplugged of Clapton etc...
                                  None of those had nowhere near as strong catalog sales as "Metallica", hence returns are more likely. Might even say very likely for big hype albums like "Bodyguard".

                                  Nevermind, Bodyguard and Breathless were sold through music clubs (not sure about Ten & Unplugged), Metallica wasn't.
                                  Nevermind in particular doesn't seem overcertified at all.

                                  But like I said, cases can be made pro and against. I guess we'll never know for sure unless Billboard themselves cares to answer.
                                  Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                                  Let there be rock!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                    Originally posted by Dane
                                    Hmm, I guess there are examples for both statements.
                                    How about this one, certification of "Metallica" and SS sales have been holding hands all the way from release in 1991 till now. If SS only reflected 45% of actual sales in 1991, then certification should be much higher for "Metallica".

                                    In case of "Achtung Baby" and "Nevermind" some of the gaps between SS v. certification could (besides music clubs) be explained by returns. Remember certification is for shipped units and not actual sales.

                                    True Garth Brooks "Roping the wind" has scanned less than 10m, but add the 2m from the box set and it's not that far out.
                                    Do maths. Everything show that sales are only scanned and not calculated.
                                    Returns of 2-3 millions are impossible.

                                    Again, do maths only :

                                    For "Roping in the wind", 18 weeks at #1 and only 4,0 millions scanned ?! It's a joke... It was released in September. So, let's me do maths :

                                    > 4 millions fourth quarter of 1991, soundscan concern about 70% of the territory mean about 5,7m sold in 1991, certified 6m in January.
                                    > 4 millions in 1992, with an average of 85% of the territory scanned, about 4,7m sold.
                                    1991-1992 = ~10,4 millions.
                                    + 9,6m (actual soundscan sales) - 8 millions (1991/1992 soundscan sales) = 1,6 millions copies sold according to soundscan 1993-now.

                                    10,4 millions (1991-1992) + 1,6 millions (1993-2005) + 2 millions (box sales) = 14 millions = RIAA certification.

                                    All is logical !

                                    Shipment are missing, which is logical too : It should be similar with sales between 98 and now (14xP in 1998, should be 15xP).

                                    Now if soundscan have calculated sales in 91/92, we have 9,6 millions sold in soundscan + 2 millions in the box = 11,6 millions : Where are the 3,5 millions missing coming from ?



                                    About Metallica, it is undercertified since ages like Dark Side Of The Moon, it should be at least 17m.

                                    All albums of 91/92 seem overcertified due to those missing sales in Soundscan figures : Bodyguard, Ten (Pearl Jam), Neverming, Breathless (Kenny G), Unplugged of Clapton etc...
                                    good analysis

                                    It makes sense now!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Dane
                                      Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                      About Metallica, it is undercertified since ages like Dark Side Of The Moon, it should be at least 17m.
                                      Why? Upgrade from 12 to 13 came about 1 year late, but if upgraded to 15 this year the numbers match perfectly:

                                      Originally posted by Basil
                                      2) - Metallica - Metallica (1991)

                                      1991 - 3.4m - 3,400,000 sold in 1991
                                      1992 - 6.0m - 2,600,000 sold in 1992
                                      1993 - n/a
                                      1994 - n/a
                                      1995 - n/a
                                      1996 - n/a
                                      1997 - n/a
                                      1998 - n/a
                                      1999 - 11,715,533
                                      2000 - 12,441,854 - 726,321 sold in 2000
                                      2001 - 12,981,888 - 540,034 sold in 2001
                                      2002 - 13,332,320 - 350,432 sold in 2002
                                      2003 - 13,803,308 - 470,988 sold in 2003
                                      2004 - 14,213,000 - 409,692 sold in 2004
                                      2005 - 14,545,000 - 332,000 sold in 2005
                                      Code:
                                      Artist Title Cert. Date Label Award Desc. Format Category Type 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA P ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA M (3) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 10/31/91 ELEKTRA G ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 01/17/92 ELEKTRA M (4) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 06/30/92 ELEKTRA M (5) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 12/10/92 ELEKTRA M (6) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 09/24/93 ELEKTRA M (7) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 02/02/95 ELEKTRA M (8) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 05/15/96 ELEKTRA M (9) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 11/03/97 ELEKTRA M (10) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 11/18/98 ELEKTRA M (11) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 12/06/99 ELEKTRA M (12) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 06/09/03 ELEKTRA M (13) ALBUM GROUP Std 
                                      METALLICA METALLICA 12/17/03 ELEKTRA M (14) ALBUM GROUP Std
                                      Since years this album is of course updated logically, soundscan is now ok. But look with other albums scanned huge during 91/92 and his certifications at this moment, it his fairly lower than all others. It's like Green Day at the moment, American Idiot his always lower at the RIAA that at Soundscan...

                                      Originally posted by Dane
                                      Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                      All albums of 91/92 seem overcertified due to those missing sales in Soundscan figures : Bodyguard, Ten (Pearl Jam), Neverming, Breathless (Kenny G), Unplugged of Clapton etc...
                                      None of those had nowhere near as strong catalog sales as "Metallica", hence returns are more likely. Might even say very likely for big hype albums like "Bodyguard".
                                      You are saying yourself that soundscan was not calculated at this time. Big hype albums at this time seems all overcertified, because they are the most affected of the non-calculated Soundscan sales figures. Returns mean nothing about certifications : They equal generally at sales of 3-4 weeks when it is being promoted. If an album sold 100k a week, 300/400k are in stores. When an album sold during months like Bodyguard or Nevermind, they still sending CDs proportionnaly of sales. It's impossible to imagine for example 1m of returns, except a unbelievable mistake in the market study before the release.



                                      Originally posted by Dane
                                      Nevermind, Bodyguard and Breathless were sold through music clubs (not sure about Ten & Unplugged), Metallica wasn't.
                                      Nevermind in particular doesn't seem overcertified at all.
                                      Really ?

                                      Nevermind :
                                      8,3m soundscan.
                                      1,24m BMG.

                                      Certified at 10 millions nearly 7 years ago.

                                      It is a great catalogue seller, so it is not as affected by missing sales of 91/92 as Bodyguard for example, half of his sales are for 93-now. Despite this, with 8,3m soundscan it should be 12xP. The difference is to huge to explain this with returns/music clubs.

                                      It's the same thing for Bodyguard, 11,8m soundscan + 1,31m BMG = 13,1 millions. 4 millions returns + other music clubs ? It's to high...

                                      etc...

                                      I want only say that if you suppose that soundscan sales are only scanned units all seem logical, you can explain nearly everything, while if you suppose that sales are calculated, case of Garth Brooks, Acthung Baby or Bodyguard find any reliable explanation.
                                      25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                        Originally posted by Dane
                                        Nevermind, Bodyguard and Breathless were sold through music clubs (not sure about Ten & Unplugged), Metallica wasn't.
                                        Nevermind in particular doesn't seem overcertified at all.
                                        Really ?

                                        Nevermind :
                                        8,3m soundscan.
                                        1,24m BMG.

                                        Certified at 10 millions nearly 7 years ago.

                                        It is a great catalogue seller, so it is not as affected by missing sales of 91/92 as Bodyguard for example, half of his sales are for 93-now. Despite this, with 8,3m soundscan it should be 12xP. The difference is to huge to explain this with returns/music clubs.
                                        Nevermind sold 152k last year, so it's not likely it sold 2m since certification. 1.1m is more likely, so 7.2m by time of certification + BMG sales leaves about 1.56m for other music clubs/returns/albums in stores. Seems fair enough to me.

                                        Look, I don't say SS was 100% accurate in 1991, how could it be when based on just 45%? Some might have been too high (could be Metallica) and some might have been too low (could be Bodyguard). But I do think they were calculated.
                                        Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                                        Let there be rock!

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by Dane
                                          Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                          Originally posted by Dane
                                          Nevermind, Bodyguard and Breathless were sold through music clubs (not sure about Ten & Unplugged), Metallica wasn't.
                                          Nevermind in particular doesn't seem overcertified at all.
                                          Really ?

                                          Nevermind :
                                          8,3m soundscan.
                                          1,24m BMG.

                                          Certified at 10 millions nearly 7 years ago.

                                          It is a great catalogue seller, so it is not as affected by missing sales of 91/92 as Bodyguard for example, half of his sales are for 93-now. Despite this, with 8,3m soundscan it should be 12xP. The difference is to huge to explain this with returns/music clubs.
                                          Nevermind sold 152k last year, so it's not likely it sold 2m since certification. 1.1m is more likely, so 7.2m by time of certification + BMG sales leaves about 1.56m for other music clubs/returns/albums in stores. Seems fair enough to me.

                                          Look, I don't say SS was 100% accurate in 1991, how could it be when based on just 45%? Some might have been too high (could be Metallica) and some might have been too low (could be Bodyguard). But I do think they were calculated.
                                          You forget that between those 7 years a best of Nirvana was released. Before, Nevermind was selling much more by year. I will not learn this to you lol.

                                          Sales of the #10 of the year according to soundscan :

                                          1991 : 1,400,000
                                          1992 : 2,600,000
                                          1993 : 2,600,000
                                          1994 : ???
                                          1995 : 2,800,000
                                          1996 : 2,600,000
                                          1997 : 2,900,000
                                          1998 : 3,200,000
                                          1999 : 3,500,000
                                          2000 : 3,800,000
                                          2001 : 3,130,000
                                          2002 : 2,736,000
                                          2003 : 2,184,000
                                          2004 : 2,435,000
                                          2005 : 2,275,646

                                          Also, since 1995, at least 33 albums have sold over 1,4 million each year. So, a #10 selling as well as a #40 ? Global US sales have not increase by nearly 50% in one year between 91 and 92...
                                          Sales can't be calculated. With those numbers it's obvious !
                                          25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                            You forget that between those 7 years a best of Nirvana was released. Before, Nevermind was selling much more by year. I will not learn this to you lol.
                                            Yes I forgot, but still 2m seems too much.
                                            Btw I just saw that "Come on over" sold 5m through music clubs!!! That's 3m outside BMG!!! A similar pattern for "Bodyguard" and others would explain a lot!

                                            Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                            Sales of the #10 of the year according to soundscan :

                                            1991 : 1,400,000
                                            1992 : 2,600,000
                                            1993 : 2,600,000
                                            1994 : ???
                                            1995 : 2,800,000
                                            1996 : 2,600,000
                                            1997 : 2,900,000
                                            1998 : 3,200,000
                                            1999 : 3,500,000
                                            2000 : 3,800,000
                                            2001 : 3,130,000
                                            2002 : 2,736,000
                                            2003 : 2,184,000
                                            2004 : 2,435,000
                                            2005 : 2,275,646

                                            Also, since 1995, at least 33 albums have sold over 1,4 million each year. So, a #10 selling as well as a #40 ? Global US sales have not increase by nearly 50% in one year between 91 and 92...
                                            Sales can't be calculated. With those numbers it's obvious !
                                            Maybe the number for 1991 only reflects sales from May 25th. onwards, when Billboard started using SS for their charts? That would explain the huge difference between 91 and 92.
                                            It would also explain the absence of R.E.M. "Out of time" in the top 10 SS albums of 1991 as it's first 8 charting weeks was prior to that. All 8 weeks in the top 30, 6 in the top 5 and 1 week at # 1!
                                            Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                                            Let there be rock!

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                              Also...

                                              Soundscan 1991 Top 10 (thanks Hanboo) :
                                              4.0 Garth Brooks - Ropin' the Wind
                                              3.4 Metallica - Metallica
                                              3.2 Natalie Cole - Unforgettable
                                              2.8 Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion II
                                              2.2 Guns N' Roses - Use Your Illusion I
                                              2.7 Michael Bolton - Time, Love and Tenderness
                                              1.8 Hammer - Too Legit to Quit
                                              1.8 Michael Jackson - Dangerous
                                              1.6 Nirvana - Nevermind
                                              1.4 U2 - Achtung Baby

                                              Run of Out Of Time in 1991 :

                                              30/03/1991 - Run: 27-16- 5-4-4-3-3-*1*- 5-1-3-3-3-6-7-6-8-7-8-6-6-10-13- 10-13-11- 9-18-21-28-30-26-25-33-41-36-43-36-33-33

                                              2 weeks #1
                                              22 weeks top 10
                                              27 weeks top 20
                                              33 weeks charted (worst position #43)

                                              According to soundscan it sold less than 1,4m in 1991.
                                              Obviously half of sales are missing...
                                              Obviously half of sales are missing... or maybe just those vital 8 weeks:

                                              30/03/1991 - Run: 27-16- 5-4-4-3-3-*1*-
                                              Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                                              Let there be rock!

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by Dane
                                                Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                                You forget that between those 7 years a best of Nirvana was released. Before, Nevermind was selling much more by year. I will not learn this to you lol.
                                                Yes I forgot, but still 2m seems too much.
                                                Btw I just saw that "Come on over" sold 5m through music clubs!!! That's 3m outside BMG!!! A similar pattern for "Bodyguard" and others would explain a lot!
                                                Similar pattern ? I see any similar pattern of Come On Over in Music Clubs lol, it sold 2 millions in BMG only ! #1 of all time ! You can't take the #1 as a reference !

                                                Originally posted by Dane
                                                Originally posted by MJDangerous
                                                Sales of the #10 of the year according to soundscan :

                                                1991 : 1,400,000
                                                1992 : 2,600,000
                                                1993 : 2,600,000
                                                1994 : ???
                                                1995 : 2,800,000
                                                1996 : 2,600,000
                                                1997 : 2,900,000
                                                1998 : 3,200,000
                                                1999 : 3,500,000
                                                2000 : 3,800,000
                                                2001 : 3,130,000
                                                2002 : 2,736,000
                                                2003 : 2,184,000
                                                2004 : 2,435,000
                                                2005 : 2,275,646

                                                Also, since 1995, at least 33 albums have sold over 1,4 million each year. So, a #10 selling as well as a #40 ? Global US sales have not increase by nearly 50% in one year between 91 and 92...
                                                Sales can't be calculated. With those numbers it's obvious !
                                                Maybe the number for 1991 only reflects sales from May 25th. onwards, when Billboard started using SS for their charts? That would explain the huge difference between 91 and 92.
                                                It would also explain the absence of R.E.M. "Out of time" in the top 10 SS albums of 1991 as it's first 8 charting weeks was prior to that. All 8 weeks in the top 30, 6 in the top 5 and 1 week at # 1!
                                                According to Hanboo this sales of 91 concern all the year.
                                                25 June 2009, the day the Music died

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Here's an article I found searching the Billboard archieves. I don't know if it proves my point, but I think it's pretty close:

                                                  October 05, 1991,
                                                  GN'R Shoots To No. 1 -- And 2 Band Scores Coup With 'Illusion' Debuts

                                                  By Based on point-of-sale figures compiled from reporting stores, SoundScan estimates that the two Geffen Records albums sold a total of 1.5 million units in their first week of release.

                                                  "This is by far the largest sales number we've ever seen,'' says Billboard associate director of retail research Geoff Mayfield. The previous one-week sales champion was Elektra's "Metallica,'' which sold 600,000 units to enter at No. 1 in the Aug. 31 issue.
                                                  The majority of fans are apparently buying both albums: SoundScan estimates that "Illusion II'' has sold only 75,000 units more than "Illusion I.''
                                                  Top Catalog Albums of the Soundscan era

                                                  Let there be rock!

                                                  Comment

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