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  • Originally posted by cdsingles
    Retailer Report: Top 200 Albums
    BB 14 april
    Region: Total U.S. Week Ending: 04/05/18
    # Units Sold

    Total Chain Indep MassM Non T

    SIMON & GARFUNK|GREATEST HITS ( 92) 2235 218 0 1783 235

    (c) Nielsen SoundScan, a division of VNU Marketing Information, Inc.
    Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cdsingles
      Retailer Report: Top 200 Albums
      BB 21 april
      Region: Total U.S. Week Ending: 04/12/18
      # Units Sold

      Total Chain Indep MassM Non T

      SIMON & GARFUNK|GREATEST HITS (104) 2005 224 6 1597 177

      (c) Nielsen SoundScan, a division of VNU Marketing Information, Inc.
      Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MJDangerous
        Bridge Over Trouble Water was by far their strongest studio album sales wise worldwide. But in the US, both The Graduate and Bookends were as successful as him when they wre first released.

        Even if catalog sales are easily in favor to Bridge Over Trouble Water, it makes any doubt that The Graduate and Bookends sold both much more than their certification level. I think both should be at 4-5 million copies sold in the US.

        Parsley, Sage Rosemary And Thyme should be at this same level as well.
        Originally posted by MJDangerous
        Originally posted by MJDangerous
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        THE GRADUATE (SOUNDTRACK) 03/27/68 G
        THE GRADUATE (SOUNDTRACK) 01/31/97 P
        THE GRADUATE (SOUNDTRACK) 04/28/97 M (2)

        Avalaible at Columbia House
        Peak : #1 x9
        Wks Top 10 : 26
        Wks Top 200 : 69
        Soundscan : N/A

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        BOOKENDS 04/18/68 G
        BOOKENDS 11/21/86 P
        BOOKENDS 11/21/86 M (2)

        Avalaible at Columbia House
        Peak : #1 x7
        Wks Top 10 : 20
        Wks Top 200 : 66
        Soundscan : N/A

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Originally posted by MJDangerous
        Bridge Over Trouble Water was by far their strongest studio album sales wise worldwide. But in the US, both The Graduate and Bookends were as successful as him when they wre first released.

        Even if catalog sales are easily in favor to Bridge Over Trouble Water, it makes any doubt that The Graduate and Bookends sold both much more than their certification level. I think both should be at 4-5 million copies sold in the US.

        Parsley, Sage Rosemary And Thyme should be at this same level as well.
        I remember this message I posted. Since then we had a confirmation:

        Beatles Record-Busting LP May Be All-Time Biggest
        "Meet the Beatles" meets "The Beatles"

        Posted Dec 21, 1968 12:00 AM

        (...)

        For comparison, the two Simon and Garfunkel albums, The Graduate soundtrack and Bookends have dominated the LP charts this past year, with each pressing toward 2 million sales, The Graduate. The record setting soundtrack recording for The Sound of Music has been on the charts for nearly four years.


        How pointless their updates were, they shipped 2 million each by 1968
        In the weird and wacky world of estimating we have all managed to learn things. I stumbled across the above on this thread which MJD put his name to in 2009, and most vindictive he would have been had I seen it then and pointed out how ridiculous it was for him to state so categorically that both ‘The Graduate’ and ‘Bookends’ should be between “4-5 million copies sold in the US”!

        He ended by doing his usual ‘conservative’ estimating thing of then rationalising upwards still further what had been said in the 1968 Rolling Stone snippet he refers to by commenting “how pointless their updates (later RIAA double platinum certifications) were, [as] they [had] shipped 2 million each by 1968”. Rounding up to two million is just not the accurate interpretation of “pressing toward 2 million sales”, as was written - but more of that later.

        Firstly lets address the bizarre “4-5 million” statement which despite both albums being no more than 2xP in 1986 meant he was in fact doubling the official position unilaterally! When MJD then came across an article from Rolling Stone published on 21st December 1968 (that was largely dealing with the Beatles’ ‘White Album’ shifting a huge amount of copies) he seized upon mention of the two number one S&G/soundtrack albums that year as “each pressing toward 2 million sales” as his justification for what he’d said previously.

        His logic, as we all know by now, probably lay in unheralded millions sold via clubs and the like and so awards were always too low and “pointless”. Even if this were true about club sales (which it never was in such numbers back then by the way) the idea that these albums could have more than doubled their award earned on 1968 sales over the ensuing 20-30 years was simply ludicrous.

        But you’ll be glad to hear dear readers that MJD has managed a ‘Road to Damascus’ moment (much as he’s been doing with his old Jackson 5 estimates as I’ve been highlighting over on their thread) and come to his senses regarding the totals for these two releases. At least that was the case 5 or 6 years ago when he gave the world his latest assessments on his Fan of Music site. There he gave ‘The Graduate’ a demotion to 2,900,000 sold Stateside and reduced his vision for ‘Bookends’ to a mere 3,200,000.

        Yeah, I know, still above the official double platinum for the latter, and far too close to triple platinum for the soundtrack, but at least all thoughts of 4-5m seem to have been consigned to the estimating bin. Well, that is until he gets his calculator out again for his current on-line venture (that is often linked to on these UKM pages) called CSCP. He’s not gotten around to the whole Simon and Garfunkel canon yet, so watch this (or that) space to see what his current interpretation might be…

        Ok I hear you cry, what was so daft about 4-5m? Well it’s hard to know where to begin really but the official awards are certainly a very good place to start I’d say. A number of Simon & Garfunkel RIAA awards were upgraded by the Columbia label in October 1986 as part of a wider and ongoing overhaul of their extensive roster of acts brought about by the introduction a couple of years earlier of multi-platinum awards. The label had a great archival background, were one of the leading club purveyors and therefore had access to the data to be thorough and accurate, quite aside from the obvious incentive to show their company and artists they had promoted in as great a light as they could with these upgrades. They had no reason to be under-selling their status as still the biggest and the best in the record industry. As mentioned then, the ‘Bookends’ album was confirmed as platinum and double platinum in this batch alongside 3xP for ‘Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme’ and a whopping 5xP for ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ and the 1972 ‘Greatest Hits’ package.

        Now the latter is worth knowing about simply because, as we all know, hits compilations usually cannibalize sales from the original studio albums by cherry picking their most popular tracks. Here we must give full credit to MJD for understanding this and being one of the first to present examples of how this has come to impact the studio albums of many artists. Basically, a studio album had to be more than just ‘great’, it needed to be legendary to avoid its sales being decimated by a compilation or two over the years.

        From this basic truism we find the Simon & Garfunkel catalogue is just as impacted as most others with their swansong release, the undeniable 1970 classic ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’, being their only studio set that seems to have retained significant ongoing public appeal despite the availability of the Greatest Hits set. Those RIAA awards don’t lie! Their next biggest certified album was the triple platinum ‘Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme’ (PSR&T) which seems to have done so much better from just a peak of No. 4 in the Billboard album chart than the long-lasting number one packages ‘Bookends’ and ‘The Graduate’ that stalled at 2xP. Why would that be?

        On close inspection that is entirely due to the mix of tracks on the three releases it would seem. The make up of PSR&T comprises four recognisable/hit selections that appeared on the Greatest Hits album and that works in its favour to casual buyers in later years who might be tempted to buy it. ‘Bookends’ on the other hand has just ‘Mrs Robinson’ and ‘A Hazy Shade Of Winter’ as bona fide ‘hit’ tracks, with ‘America’ only being used as a belated 1972 single in support of ‘Greatest Hits’ and then barely scraping into the Billboard Hot 100 at No. 97; it would not become better known until later years. The ‘Bookends Theme’ is on the Greatest Hits set too, but the vagueness of its title was lost on many until they heard it, while its brevity doesn’t particularly help either.

        What really aided the duo commercially the most (after the alterations to ‘The Sound of Silence’ made it a No. 1 single in early 1966), and turned PSR&T into a bigger seller, was the wider attention they received as a result of their music being featured in the 1968 Hollywood box office smash ‘The Graduate’. The corresponding acceptance of the film’s soundtrack (number one for nine weeks, out of 26 weeks in the Top 10 and 69 all told in Billboard’s Top 200) drove most of their previous LPs back into the Top 30 and higher, with only their debut release ‘Wednesday Morning 3 AM’ lagging behind with a 1968 high of No. 101. Indeed PSR&T soared back up to No. 5 some fifteen months after its original number four peak - an almost unique phenomenon for the time. For while ‘PSR&T’ had but four weeks in the Top 10 in its first run at that level it had never left the Top 200 by the time the soundtrack made its debut, and by then had already exceeded the total number of weeks ‘The Graduate’ would ultimately accumulate. Indeed, 8 months into its tenure (about 34 weeks) the RIAA certified it gold for one million dollars-worth of sales on 6th July 1967 as the duo were taken to the hearts of the college campus fraternities across the States.

        To reach gold status at that stage indicates it more than did so again once the movie had made its impact and ‘PSR&T’ re-entered the Top Ten for 13 further weeks. It wasn’t until its 126th consecutive week on April 5th 1969 that it finally weakened and fell out of the Top 200, but quite clearly it would by then have been well beyond ‘double gold’ and approaching ‘triple gold’ at least one would imagine. In modern parlance, platinum for sure and over 1.25m. Three weeks after disappearing from Billboard’s album listing ‘PRS&T’ was back for a further ten weeks bringing its run to 136 weeks, with a final nine-week stay to come during ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ fever from May 1970 - something that eluded both ‘Bookends’ and ‘The Graduate’.

        Quite simply this sudden resurgent interest in their music on their previous two studio albums is the root of the additional platinum award achieved by both ‘PSR&T’ and ‘Sounds Of Silence’. They became, in effect, hits twice over, and especially in the sixties longevity would always trump all but the biggest of number one albums. When viewed in this analytical manner it becomes understandable how ‘PSR&T’ was certified for above 3m as early as 1986 - it had quite simply earned it. Mind you, that is still a long way from the ridiculous 5m total MJD currently estimates on his Fan Of Music site….!

        Yet despite the success of ‘The Graduate’, it was of course not a genuine S&G album in the truest sense as it contained just four main tracks by the duo and plenty of incidental music and other fillers to pad it out. That was not unusual for the era but naturally the demand for the record was very time-specific in that regard once the wider audience for the couple’s music came to realise the tracks were available in more cohesive ‘proper’ S&G releases. They would notice, for instance, that ‘The Sound Of Silence’ and ‘Scarborough Fair/Canticle’ were repeated on both sides of the soundtrack, as was ‘Mrs Robinson’ but worse, they were but a curtailed 1 minute 12 second edits, not the 4 minute full version to be had on the ‘Bookends’ LP or even the single!

        Consequently it is amazing that the soundtrack did as well as it did, and underlines the power of Hollywood when a film becomes so successful that it carries its score beyond the normal original motion picture soundtrack audience base. Once these buyers had fathomed out that it was the S&G material in the movie they had largely been attracted to, and discovered that it was on offer elsewhere in more coherent album form along with other material by the guys, many went out and bought those, leaving the soundtrack with nowhere to go in ongoing sales terms beyond 1968 outside of the movie connection.

        The two remaining S&G recordings on ‘The Graduate’, ‘April Come She Will’ and ‘The Big Green Pleasure Machine’, were available on ‘PSR&T’ and ‘Sounds Of Silence’ respectively, while of course ‘The Sound Of Silence’ was on the latter album too and as mentioned ‘Mrs Robinson’ in its full-length outing was on the soon to be released ‘Bookends’.

        You can fool the public for so long, but ultimately future Simon and Garfunkel admirers were most unlikely to pay good money for ‘The Graduate’ soundtrack when their material from the album could be found elsewhere in more coherent and appealing original settings. Indeed Paul Simon himself had been reluctant to connect with Hollywood in this manner and it was only the financial lure that tempted him to get involved, and even then most half-heartedly hence the use of ‘old’ material by the producers. Of course the movie still had its own charm and power so when it was first aired on US-TV in 1972 the soundtrack did make it back into the lower reaches of the Top 200 in Billboard for a month, peaking at No. 184.

        Otherwise, all things being equal, the comment in Rolling Stone that it was ‘pressing towards two million sales’ in December 1968 was really made at the end of its significant demand as it limped out of the Top 20. The remark is rather vague in itself, and could in reality mean anything above 1.5m and still be justifiable. It certainly should not be taken as read that it had shipped two million in 1968 on the say so of Rolling Stone!

        The conclusion that ‘The Graduate’ was ever anywhere near “4-5 million copies sold in the US” as postulated by MJD is therefore bizarre in the extreme and shows us again how ‘dangerous’ it is paying much attention to sales figures in articles - just as I’ve pointed out on the Jackson 5 thread concerning newspaper tales of their sales from the time.

        That takes care of ‘The Graduate’ as certainly not much above two million, as supported by the April 1997 double platinum RIAA certification - a figure that may well have only just been achieved coming so soon after the platinum award in January of that same year once CD replacement sales had been added into the mix following the 1990 digital release - mostly no doubt, I would agree here, via club offers.

        So what about ‘Bookends’? Well that too was included in the vague Rolling Stone statement as “pressing towards two million sales” that equally could mean anything over 1.5m in order to be factually accurate. Of course it could be that both this and ‘The Graduate’ could fulfill that ‘pressing towards’ criteria had they been at, say, 1,950,000. That is perfectly true - however that would be to overlook the whole raison d’être for the article - ‘The Beatles’ album and its remarkable sales.

        Those details were omitted by MJD in his excerpt, but basically so much of the figures they provided were misleading at best. At one moment it referred to advance sales of what would become known as the ‘White Album’ of 1.7m, while the next they were suggesting 3,301,275 copies had been sold within four days. Of course we now know all these years later that sales of the record were 2,201,536 for 1968, inclusive of exports, revealing just how untrustworthy the report was in its lead item and therefore should raise alarm bells as to the accuracy of the Simon & Garfunkel statements too. Sure it is still well over two million, but let’s be honest it was the Beatles and Christmas, so even if ‘The Graduate’ had managed the same nine weeks at number one is it really likely it, or ‘Bookends’, were truly “pressing towards 2 million” during the quiet spring period by comparison?

        So once more I believe we are back looking at a maximum of 1.5m for ‘Bookends’ too. Any sensible reading of the chart results shows it to have been less successful at the time than the soundtrack - as daft as that might seem to us 50 years on. The movie soundtrack was still a potent force within a certain audience, even if incidental music formed a big component of the content, and the concurrent S&G album ‘Bookends’, by managing two weeks fewer at number one and six fewer in the Top 10 in Billboard, could be construed the weaker seller of the two. In fact a tell-tale sign that it was not a dominant number one was it giving way to the soundtrack for a fortnight after it had first reached the summit for three weeks. That is generally indicative of an album struggling to justify its position on top and holding on more for the lack of strong competition than an overwhelming sales advantage.

        As we’ve seen how the most significant tracks on ‘Bookends’ were then lifted for the ‘Greatest Hits’ release in 1972, thereby reducing its ongoing potency to all but S&G completists, the double platinum that the RIAA awarded on 21st November 1986 is also about on par for what should be expected from its lifetime. Certainly not 4-5 million!

        Topicel

        Comment


        • I suppose I should try and tidy up the other Simon and Garfunkel studio album realities while I’m at it. The hardcore S&G fans will obviously have obtained ‘Wednesday Morning 3 AM’ to help it achieve the platinum award it received in November 1997 despite this debut LP never reaching beyond No. 30 in early 1966, eighteen months or so after it was first released, on the back of the number one single ‘The Sound Of Silence’. That was the altered version with added guitar, drums and bass, not the original minimal version that was found on this album, but still would be the only ‘recognition factor’ that would help it sell to casual buyers in the future.

          The album went gold for one million dollars-worth of shipments on 4th March 1969 which shows us just how comparatively weak the album market was back then as it included the period when ‘The Graduate’ stimulated all their previous releases anew.

          It is unlikely that ‘Wednesday Morning 3 AM’ much exceeded the million, the 1986 CD reissue sales most likely finally helping it to just get over the mark eleven years later for the platinum certification.

          ‘Sounds Of Silence’ on the other hand is, after ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’, the most widely known ‘title’ associated with Simon & Garfunkel. Of course that is in fact the name of their second album that includes the hit single version of ‘The Sound Of Silence’, but people are rarely aware of the difference. A bit like how Cliff Richard is often referred to as Cliff ‘Richards’, even in the press!

          Whatever Paul Simon himself thought about Columbia adding a ‘rock’ backing to his folk original, there is no doubt it was an inspired decision as it became number one in the States and a big hit in many other countries, bringing the duo to the fore and it was no surprise that an album was hastily built around the single. ‘Sounds Of Silence’ debuted in Billboard on 19th February 1966 at No. 123 and was destined to sell steadily for 37 weeks within the Top 200 throughout the year peaking at No. 25, aided by another single lifted from it, ‘I Am A Rock’ making the Top 3 in the Hot 100. This, in itself, was representative of potentially a quarter-million sales.

          The album was obviously a slow burner, especially around folk circles, and it resurfaced for a further 15 week run in the lower quarter of the Billboard Top 200 from 5th August 1967, possibly on the back of their successful appearance at the Monterrey International Pop Festival, and some continuing minor hit singles. This resulted in Columbia shipping enough extra copies to call in the RIAA auditors who certified the album gold as announced on 25th August 1967 for a million-dollars-worth of product, around 400,000 units.

          As we have seen though, the real boost to their commercial appeal came with the release of the movie and soundtrack ‘The Graduate’, and ‘Sounds Of Silence’ made its third and most significant album chart reappearance from 2nd March 1968 when it made a new peak of No. 21 during an extended run of 70 further weeks well into 1969. By the end of the 60s it is not inconceivable that the album was “pressing towards one million sales” - to coin the Rolling Stone phrase.

          Then in February 1970 came ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’, the duo’s tour-de-force swansong that commercially swept all before it. Once more ‘Sounds Of Silence’ and ‘Parsley Sage Rosemary & Thyme’ rose in the charts (significantly, it should be noted, ‘Bookends’ failed to do so…) with ‘Silence’ actually performing better in chart activity on this occasion than ‘PSR&T’ with 19 further weeks in the Top 200 and a peak this time of No. 120, lasting 10 weeks longer and settling 18 places higher. Clearly as early as 1970 the market had taken a view as to their the preferred 60s studio albums, thereby reinforcing their later platinum advantage over ‘Bookends’ and ‘The Graduate’.

          Arguably the ‘Sounds Of Silence’ added 2-300,000 sales with this latest resurgence in 1970 and by the time that the ‘Greatest Hits’ package was compiled from the relatively small S&G canon of recordings for release in the summer of 1972, and began to eat into the ongoing sales of the original studio albums, ‘Silence’ had probably sold around 1.5m.

          Whatever the sales per annum over the next decade might have been, we next see the LP finding itself reduced to the mid-price range and appearing in the Billboard Catalogue chart for a duration of 32 weeks from late 1983. When an album moves down the price category it is usually a sign that sales had dried up, so it would be sensible to not expect many more sales than, say, 300k in total since 1972 and the appearance of the CD version in late 1990. The early adopters of digital music were clearly enough to ensure that the label could successfully apply for a double platinum certification award from the RIAA alongside the belated 1xP on 22nd July 1991, although it is just as likely it had been overlooked in the 1986 upgrades and these were simply adding to the 2m-plus total.

          Whether or not the CD-replacement sales of the 1990 re-release had in fact been necessary to push it beyond two million is a moot point for the triple platinum award that ‘Sounds Of Silence’ received on 16th March 2001 almost certainly resulted from the pre-orders for that summers re-mastered version of the album. The same date saw ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ move up a platinum notch for the exact same reasons no doubt, and it is significant again therefore that both ‘Bookends’ and ‘PSR&T’ could not add to their platinum tallies with their re-mastered releases.

          Leaving the best until last, the early seventies phenomenon that was ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ broke through the eight million shipment barrier when it was re-certified 8xP on 16th March 2001 on the back of its re-mastered release. And yet eight million doesn’t seem very many for the reputation and chart dominance of this epic album, which perhaps goes to show once more how difficult it was to go ‘multi-platinum’ in the early seventies.

          That it did sell quite a few in 1970/71 isn’t open to question of course, and if platinum or multi-platinum awards had been in existence at the time then ‘Bridge’ would undoubtedly have managed both with ease. But when the Columbia catalogue re-certification programme came up with just 5xP in 1986 it seemed kind of underwhelming in the light of the sales being racked up at the time.

          Not only that but you would expect the five million shipments the award guaranteed as a minimum must also have included the Mid-Line product sold following the albums reduction to that price range - and its run for well over a year in Billboard’s Top 40 best selling albums in that catalogue category since its entry at No. 34 on 27th July 1985 is testament to its continuing steady sales. One of the reasons it was reduced in price was to clear outstanding stock as Columbia looked to the future with a CD edition. It is most likely therefore that all of these variants must have racked up a few hundred thousand, hinting at a total beyond a basic 5m at the time of the multi-platinum award, say 5.25m.

          Nevertheless, we have to assume ‘Bridge’ can’t have been significantly beyond 5m as the next upgrade was eleven years away when it climbed to 6xP on 31st January 1997. ‘The Graduate’ made it to double platinum that same day - something of an unlikely coincidence - so as I detailed earlier it is more likely that the movie soundtrack was the one just making its new certification level indicating ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ was already well clear of six million rather than the other way around. So perhaps we could reasonably say ‘Bridge’ stood at 6.25m by then having added at least 1m since 1986.

          We do know that Soundscan gave the album a total of 1,210,000 in January 2006, and of course most of those would have been during the 90s and early noughties as the replacement CD market and then the 2001 remastered edition did the bulk of the heavy lifting. Therefore it is probable that the final certification we have for the album of 8xP on 16th March 2001 (again, concurrent with the 3xP for ‘Sounds Of Silence’ and 13xP for ‘Greatest Hits’) included most of the Soundscan numbers and a few that had yet to be bought - in other words the pre-shipments of the remastered CD with bonus tracks - which helped it reach the new certification level.

          The upshot of all this would be, as a best rational estimate of sales progress, as follows:

          4.75m during the 70s (after around 3m in 1970 & a further 750k in 1971)

          750k during the 80s; 1.25m during the 90s and around 500k (including remaster pre-shipments) by the time of the 8xP

          The balance, it would appear, would be attributable to club sales over the years at a reasonable 10%.

          And with those meanderings I’ll conclude my look at the original album catalogue of the top-selling duo in rock history.

          Topicel

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MJDangerous
            At least cert of Bookends still makes sense. I have read more than once how huge sellers Simon & Garfunkel were on Columbia House, so that explain why it was only 2xPlatinum in 1986. A bit like Bridge Over Troubled Water - 5xPlatinum in 1986 while it sold 5 million during 1970 alone, it was up to around 7 million by 1986.
            The cert of The Graduate is truly nonsense yet. It looks like their albums were never fully audited, with a few sales added here and there. It is pretty obvious on Greatest Hits awards - 10xPlat in 2000 then 13xPlat in 2001 and 14xPlat 2 years later!
            Is it just me or am I the only one who can't follow what MJD is saying from one leap-of-the-imagination to the next?

            At the bottom of page one - all the quoted posts come from just that first page on this thread - he seemingly contradicts himself once more by contending that he reckons the 2xP 'Bookends' cert "still makes sense"! He'd been saying earlier on the same page that it had to be around 4-5m in the US...

            Why can't he get it into his head that his beloved Columbia House and/or RCA or Capitol Clubs figures that he keeps claiming are complete inventions and make his otherwise sterling efforts to estimate so many artists over the years almost worthless as serious conclusions. I wish he wouldn't become the Chart & Sales analyst and estimating equivalent to Wikipedia that he so despises for providing 'fake' data when he himself is doing just that with statements such as "I have read more than once how huge sellers Simon & Garfunkel were on Columbia House".

            It is totally meaningless and vague. These clubs were simply not selling the kind of numbers he says, and even if they were I've pointed out plenty of times that these sales were allowed under RIAA rules all along, so why would that then make "that explain why it was only 2xPlatinum in 1986" a reality? Does he really think Columbia didn't know the terms of engagement?!

            His famous 'conservatism' would be astonishing if it wasn't so laughable. How he can say "A bit like Bridge Over Troubled Water - 5xPlatinum in 1986 while it sold 5 million during 1970 alone, it was up to around 7 million by 1986" with any seriousness is beyond me. It was bad enough when he was just a local estimating megalomaniac, but these days he's gone viral it seems...and like Wikipedia many are misled. In this statement about 'Bridge' he's basically saying again Columbia (or the auditors) couldn't count when giving the album a 5xP in 1986. MJD knows it was 40% (yes, 40%!) higher in sales terms based on the minimum certification levels of 5m or 7m, and Columbia don't!

            There is nothing against rational and verifiable criticism of official facts if there is justification, but all he's doing is dismissing what has to be the cornerstone of the sales estimating process in the US - the RIAA awards - with fabricated guesses. They aren't even logical.

            For instance, if he's trying to say he knows that 'Bridge' sold two million via all sources in the 15 years from 1971 to 1986, then why is he telling us now it sold less than that in the next 20 years from 1986-2006 as his Fan Of Music estimate is 8,600,000?! Nuts, ain't it? Right through the many remasters and CD replacement years in which Soundscan is saying for 15 of those 20 years they monitored 1.2m-plus sales during the boom time for the industry, and yes, the boom time for those clubs too, how is it the total is so far beneath 71-86 according to MJD?

            One possible answer is he's made a bigger error by saying "while it sold 5 million during 1970 alone", of course. Two wrongs don't ever make a right...especially when it is so badly thought through.

            Ultimately there are rarely any logic to his conclusions. Mine may be found to be faulty in due course, but they always follow the story and the logic as we know it today. And he's still moaning on that 'The Graduate' 2xP certification is "nonsense"....

            Topicel

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oldbloke
              ALBUM SALES WEEK 15

              Rank - Estimated 2018 Sales - TITLE - Artist ( Estimated Total Sales )


              84 - 33,000 - GREATEST HITS - Simon & Garfunkel ( 3,714,000 )
              Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oldbloke
                ALBUM SALES WEEK 16

                Rank - Estimated 2018 Sales - TITLE - Artist ( Estimated Total Sales )

                85 - 35,000 - GREATEST HITS - Simon & Garfunkel ( 3,716,000 )
                Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cdsingles
                  Retailer Report: Top 200 Albums
                  BB 5 may
                  Region: Total U.S. Week Ending: 04/26/18
                  # Units Sold

                  Total Chain Indep MassM Non T

                  SIMON & GARFUNK|GREATEST HITS (149) 2091 193 5 1628 265

                  (c) Nielsen SoundScan, a division of VNU Marketing Information, Inc.
                  Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                  Comment


                  • 5/12/18 Billboard's Top Album Sales
                    Total = Chain, Independent, Mass Merchants, Non Traditional

                    102. SIMON & GARFUNK|GREATEST HITS 1,893 = 181 6 1511 195

                    Sales estimate by oldbloke:

                    GREATEST HITS - Simon & Garfunkel ( 3,720,000 ) 14xP - in Nov. 2003

                    Comment


                    • 5/26/18 Catalog Album Sales

                      15. Simon And Garfunkel's Greatest Hits, Simon & Garfunkel 2,196 3,183,592 14xP

                      The total is lower than oldbloke's estimate above!

                      There is some issue with albums released before 1991. Some sales figures will be lower than previous SoundScan numbers.

                      The last Catalog sales chart we received was in April 2014! Finally!

                      Comment


                      • 9/8/18 Billboard's Top Album Sales
                        Total = Chain, Independent, Mass Merchants, Non Traditional

                        54. SIMON & GARFUNK|GREATEST HITS 2,352 = 367 60 1349 576

                        Comment


                        • U.K.
                          B.P.I.
                          28 september

                          Simon & Garfunkel
                          The Boxer
                          Sony Music Silver Single
                          Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                          Comment


                          • Italy
                            week 3

                            Mrs. Robinson
                            Simon & Garfunkel
                            Sony Music CG
                            certified gold singles online
                            Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                            Comment


                            • U.K.
                              B.P.I.
                              8 february

                              Simon & Garfunkel
                              The Sound Of Silence
                              Sony Music
                              certified Gold Single
                              Last edited by borderwolf; Tue April 9th, 2019, 16:37.
                              Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                              Comment


                              • Denmark
                                2 april

                                Simon & Garfunkel
                                The Sounds of Silence
                                Sony Music
                                certified Track Gold
                                Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                                Comment


                                • U.K.
                                  B.P.I.
                                  26 april

                                  Simon & Garfunkel
                                  Bookends
                                  Columbia Silver Album
                                  Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

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                                  • U.K.
                                    B.P.I.
                                    6 september

                                    Simon & Garfunkel
                                    Mrs Robinson
                                    Sony Music Gold Single

                                    Simon & Garfunkel
                                    Cecilia
                                    Sony Music Silver Single
                                    Prisoner Of Rock'n'Roll

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by thebigham View Post
                                      5/12/18 Billboard's Top Album Sales

                                      Sales estimate by oldbloke:

                                      GREATEST HITS - Simon & Garfunkel ( 3,720,000 ) 14xP - in Nov. 2003
                                      12/7/19 Billboard charts:

                                      Pure album sales estimate by oldbloke:

                                      TITLE - Artist ( Estimated Total Sales )

                                      GREATEST HITS - Simon & Garfunkel ( 3,857,000 ) 14xP

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