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Janet Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

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  • Re: Janet Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

    The only ones not available were AFY, TVR, and janet. (No ID under CMH). The ones available sold like hot cakes!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lovedeluxe
      I know all of her A&M albums were avail through Columbia. I'm not sure of the Virgin ones.

      I know the Virgin titles were "exclusives" but you could only buy them at full price.
      Yes. That's what I also thought. Virgin releases were exclusive to BMG but at a limited time period only and were apparently pulled out after the period expired.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by red3269
        We need to summarize all these juicy new stats! i really hope somebody in her team spearheads to recertify her work.

        I have some plans, besides updating our database.
        Gone.

        Comment


        • First post looks great

          Comment


          • Thanks, biscuits.
            Gone.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bojan
              Originally posted by red3269
              We need to summarize all these juicy new stats! i really hope somebody in her team spearheads to recertify her work.

              I have some plans, besides updating our database.
              Ooooohhh! Let us know how we can help.

              Comment


              • Many thanks, everyone, for the updates of her US sales! Wonderful to see.

                Comment


                • So just to clarify, to get the comprehensive sales for each album we add albums w/ TEA and SEA on demand of all versions + Music Club Sales (which is basically just BMG numbers since Columbia never released theirs)? Imports are not included (these are quite small numbers anyway)?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lovedeluxe
                    Originally posted by madboy1
                    The velve hope 4platinum i know it!

                    Janet 8.1...

                    Other albuns.... control, doad, rn1814....

                    Where i found this for other artist?
                    Don't forget most of the market wasn't even covered by SoundScan when "janet." was released. If I can remember I think I read in BB that 50-60% of the market was covered in 1993. Diamond is very possible. Also considering the album was last certified 11 months after it was released and it still stayed on the charts until 1995.
                    I 'm seeing this remark quite often now, so I felt compelled to bring some light into this misconception:

                    Yes, SoundScan didn't cover the whole market AT ALL in the 90s, but Nielsen extrapolated those missing sales with the result that the figures that we nowadays read/interpret as "real-sales" do already take into account the uncovered copies and are more or less "educated extrapolations" (if you're mean you could say "educated guesses").

                    So what i wanted to make clear it that there are no "missing Soundscan sales" for Janet and neither for Mariah, Whitney, Celine and Madonna for 1991-2018.

                    Plus: The most striking contra-argument against the thesis that janet. and RN actually sold in the diamond-range are the reports of her record company which clearly suggest those albums didn't sell in that range. Otherwise the worldwide figures don't make any sense unless you subtract the additional US sales that you suggest from her European or Asian figures: If you - for example - suggest that janet. sold 10 million in the US, you would have to accept a figure of 1 million for Europe which is against all of the known facts.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Janet Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

                      What is your source for that?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lovedeluxe
                        What is your source for that?
                        That is by far common knowledge: Here is just one example from 1998, when the discussion about neglecting Latin sales came up:
                        "No changes are expected at SoundScan, which boasts more than 14,000 tracking outlets that cover north of 90% of the nationís music sales.

                        When determining weekly album sales, SoundScan extrapolates the remaining percentage to reach the final tallies that are provided to record companies and other interested entities."
                        http://variety.com/1998/music/news/s...nu-1117469022/

                        or:
                        Nielsen SoundScan uses proprietary formulas to extrapolate the remaining 10 percent of sales and generate weekly totals.
                        https://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/b...t-science.html

                        Comment


                        • I found this in other thread:
                          Originally posted by AndiIversen
                          BMG's number was released by BMG themselves, as for Columbia, figures were never released but we do know that Columbia House was at least 3 times bigger than BMG (it was the biggest music club in America by far back then) , so even if we double what an artist sold at BMG that would mean people are being conservative when giving estimates. That goes for all artists/albums sold there.
                          "Rhythm Nation 1814" was certified 6◊ platinum in November 1992, two years before RIAA started counting all sales, including BMG Music Club sales and Columbia House. The album sold 1,100,000 in BMG Music Club, 335,653 albums with TEA and SEA and 1,389,047 according to SoundScan, since March 1, 1991. I know that some of those SoundScan numbers are accounted for certification, but how much of it? We also have to keep in mind the fact that sales in the biggest music club Columbia House aren't available. Can we really abandon a possibility that "Rhythm Nation" could be at least 9◊ Platinum, if not Diamond? I believe that, with TEA and SEA, it sold around 8,500,000 copies, excluding sales in Columbia House and other music clubs.

                          From what we know her RIAA certifications could look like this:

                          Control 7◊ Platinum
                          Rhythm Nation 8◊ Platinum
                          janet. 8◊ Platinum
                          Design of a Decade 5◊ Platinum
                          The Velvet Rope 4◊ Platinum
                          All for You 3◊ Platinum
                          Damita Jo Platinum
                          20. Y.O. Platinum
                          Discipline Gold
                          Number Ones Platinum

                          "Icon" could be Gold, and I'm not sure about the "Janet Jackson" album.

                          She could have at least 38.5 million certified units. with a possibility to have even 40 or more, if "Janet Jackson," "Rhythm Nation" and "janet." sold more, "Icon" becomes Gold and "Number Ones" 2◊ Platinum (which is not impossible with TEA and SEA, given that it already sold 1,548,396 equivalent units).




                          I think I forgot to post this:

                          Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814
                          ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND 335,653

                          Control
                          ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND 157,137
                          Gone.

                          Comment


                          • Number Ones:

                            SoundScan
                            STREAMING IN THE USA: 402,297,877

                            ChartMasters
                            STREAMING WORLDWIDE: 170,953,000

                            Design of a Decade:

                            SoundScan
                            STREAMING IN THE USA: 366,462,682

                            ChartMasters;
                            STREAMING WORLDWIDE: 170,953,000

                            Icon:

                            SoundScan
                            SALES IN THE USA: 104,430
                            STREAMING IN THE USA: 157,088,121

                            ChartMasters;
                            SALES WORLDWIDE: 100,000
                            STREAMING WORLDWIDE: 80,281,000
                            Gone.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Janet Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

                              I fail to see how is streaming (that we don't have info about outside Spotify) relevant to sales? Are we referencing MJD's SALES or STREAMS all the time? You're reaching for straws.

                              Comment


                              • Bojan,ChartMasters factors streams for songs in their parent albums 'sales' and not the compilation they were released .
                                That explains the discrepancies of some of those totals.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Westen
                                  I fail to see how is streaming (that we don't have info about outside Spotify) relevant to sales? Are we referencing MJD's SALES or STREAMS all the time? You're reaching for straws.
                                  It's to show you he doesn't have more info or knowledge than most of us do. He's now reading this and taking SoundScan data posted here. I know that because he was using "No Sleeep" data yesterday on Twitter to explain me something, and he was right about it which I have no problem to admit, but avoided to explain how he underestimated the "Icon" compilation. Instead, he got upset and started attacking me, because obviously, this damages his credibility among people who are not taking his numbers for granted, and I have more followers than he does so my facts were RT-ed by many.

                                  I'm aware that I'm now talking with someone who doesn't even understand what's "ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND," yet is ready to take everything that guy posts as a fact, but I'm still willing to talk about it with you.
                                  Gone.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Bojan
                                    Originally posted by Westen
                                    I fail to see how is streaming (that we don't have info about outside Spotify) relevant to sales? Are we referencing MJD's SALES or STREAMS all the time? You're reaching for straws.
                                    It's to show you he doesn't have more info or knowledge than most of us do. He's now reading this and taking SoundScan data posted here. I know that because he was using "No Sleeep" data yesterday on Twitter to explain me something, and he was right about it which I have no problem to admit, but avoided to explain how he underestimated the "Icon" compilation. Instead, he got upset and started attacking me, because obviously, this damages his credibility among people who are not taking his numbers for granted, and I have more followers than he does so my facts were RT-ed by many.

                                    I'm aware that I'm now talking with someone who doesn't even understand what's "ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND," yet is ready to take everything that guy posts as a fact, but I'm still willing to talk about it with you.
                                    Funny hoiw you;re doing everything here what you're accusing him of doing: acting like you know the best, like you have all receipts, how your word is factual, and yet you you're struggling hard to prove your point here, since you're jumping from sales to streaming. And let me remind you, we were talking about SALES.

                                    Oh please, drop the act 'he underestimated the "Icon" compilation', last update was from 10 years ago, we had no idea how much it sold, or if it was still in stock, it's budget release, it's totally irrelevant to her total album sales, which was the point here. But like I said, you're reaching so hard now tying to discredit that you're fighting about 50,000 copies! Literally a joke. Album sales estimations are still the best out there and that's it. If you think that you can do a better job, go ahead and do it instead of always bitching and trying to discredit when you know damn well that total album sales are totally on point.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Bojan
                                      I think I forgot to post this:

                                      Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814
                                      ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND 335,653

                                      Control
                                      ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND 157,137
                                      Do u have the complete sales report for these two?

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Westen
                                        Originally posted by Bojan
                                        Originally posted by Westen
                                        I fail to see how is streaming (that we don't have info about outside Spotify) relevant to sales? Are we referencing MJD's SALES or STREAMS all the time? You're reaching for straws.
                                        It's to show you he doesn't have more info or knowledge than most of us do. He's now reading this and taking SoundScan data posted here. I know that because he was using "No Sleeep" data yesterday on Twitter to explain me something, and he was right about it which I have no problem to admit, but avoided to explain how he underestimated the "Icon" compilation. Instead, he got upset and started attacking me, because obviously, this damages his credibility among people who are not taking his numbers for granted, and I have more followers than he does so my facts were RT-ed by many.

                                        I'm aware that I'm now talking with someone who doesn't even understand what's "ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND," yet is ready to take everything that guy posts as a fact, but I'm still willing to talk about it with you.
                                        Funny hoiw you;re doing everything here what you're accusing him of doing: acting like you know the best, like you have all receipts, how your word is factual, and yet you you're struggling hard to prove your point here, since you're jumping from sales to streaming. And let me remind you, we were talking about SALES.

                                        Oh please, drop the act 'he underestimated the "Icon" compilation', last update was from 10 years ago, we had no idea how much it sold, or if it was still in stock, it's budget release, it's totally irrelevant to her total album sales, which was the point here. But like I said, you're reaching so hard now tying to discredit that you're fighting about 50,000 copies! Literally a joke. Album sales estimations are still the best out there and that's it. If you think that you can do a better job, go ahead and do it instead of always bitching and trying to discredit when you know damn well that total album sales are totally on point.
                                        Heís just pointing out that MJD is NOT as correct as some people (especially you) believe. 50,000 is quite a big discrepancy so of course it is important.

                                        We now have updated figures for the US which means we donít have to rely on MJD figures for that market.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Westen
                                          Originally posted by Bojan
                                          Originally posted by Westen
                                          I fail to see how is streaming (that we don't have info about outside Spotify) relevant to sales? Are we referencing MJD's SALES or STREAMS all the time? You're reaching for straws.
                                          It's to show you he doesn't have more info or knowledge than most of us do. He's now reading this and taking SoundScan data posted here. I know that because he was using "No Sleeep" data yesterday on Twitter to explain me something, and he was right about it which I have no problem to admit, but avoided to explain how he underestimated the "Icon" compilation. Instead, he got upset and started attacking me, because obviously, this damages his credibility among people who are not taking his numbers for granted, and I have more followers than he does so my facts were RT-ed by many.

                                          I'm aware that I'm now talking with someone who doesn't even understand what's "ALBUMS W/TEA W/SEA ON-DEMAND," yet is ready to take everything that guy posts as a fact, but I'm still willing to talk about it with you.
                                          Funny hoiw you;re doing everything here what you're accusing him of doing: acting like you know the best, like you have all receipts, how your word is factual, and yet you you're struggling hard to prove your point here, since you're jumping from sales to streaming. And let me remind you, we were talking about SALES.

                                          Oh please, drop the act 'he underestimated the "Icon" compilation', last update was from 10 years ago, we had no idea how much it sold, or if it was still in stock, it's budget release, it's totally irrelevant to her total album sales, which was the point here. But like I said, you're reaching so hard now tying to discredit that you're fighting about 50,000 copies! Literally a joke. Album sales estimations are still the best out there and that's it. If you think that you can do a better job, go ahead and do it instead of always bitching and trying to discredit when you know damn well that total album sales are totally on point.

                                          Western, I don't like your actions. Bojan and thebigham have both confirmed they have access that you do not. Clearly, you're going to attack him for actually having REAL PROOF, which I myself have seen to defend someone who is completely wrong with his source. For obvious reasons posting the "source" or information on UKMIX could lead to a lot of problems for the person that has access to this information.

                                          Instead of attacking him, you should realize that since the reports are coming from Bojan AND thebigham (both Madonna and Janet fans - two fan bases that never see eye to eye on the divas), you should realize they are RIGHT.

                                          From here on, I'd suggest to not entertain him anymore. Keep believing other information when they have REAL access. It is pointless for you to get upset that Janet's streaming seems to be ahead of Madonna's for some of her albums.

                                          Comment


                                          • I have often said that I respect and appreciate MJD's work. His devotion to what he does is remarkable. However, as Columbia Music Club never released their sales unlike BMG, I will always find his estimates for this music club (which was the biggest in the world) somewhat questionable.

                                            I actually asked him not so long ago about his Columbia estimates for Control, RN and DOAD (all 3 bigsellers in BMG and available at Columbia) and basically his reasoning why Janet's columbia sales for those 3 albums are almost next to nothing is that 1) columbia membership is made up of an older demographic who isn't the target market of Janet's music 2) the release of DOAD cannibalized sales for Control and RN 3) DOAD most probably got an exclusive BMG deal when it was first released which would have affected its sales in Columbia later on.

                                            We had a healthy exchange about this topic but in the end, i was still not convinced but I appreciated the time he took to explain his reasoning to me.

                                            Comment


                                            • Re: Janet Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

                                              Janet... the second most successful act of the 90s didn't sell any units at Columbia House? LOL

                                              "Rhythm Nation" the #1 album of 1990 (which was available at Columbia House) didn't sell any units from 1989-1995 when DOAD was released?

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by lovedeluxe
                                                Janet... the second most successful act of the 90s didn't sell any units at Columbia House? LOL

                                                "Rhythm Nation" the #1 album of 1990 (which was available at Columbia House) didn't sell any units from 1989-1995 when DOAD was released?
                                                Well he didn't really say she sold nothing at Columbia..it's just that her sales were very poor in that music club and her labels favored or entered exclusivity deals with BMG (in the case of Virgin). But yes, I find it hard to believe that her A&M releases sold little through Columbia considering those albums were massive everywhere in America.

                                                Comment


                                                • According to that guy, Michael Jackson sold:

                                                  Dangerous
                                                  BMG: 298,000
                                                  Columbia: 800,000

                                                  Janet sold:

                                                  Design of a Decade
                                                  BMG: 1,480,000
                                                  Columbia: 0

                                                  So, Janet who was outselling Michael in the USA ever since 1989, and prior that, since 1986, their sales were almost equal, didn't manage to sell her records through Columbia House at all? I'd rather say that if Michael sold "Dangerous" in 800,000 Janet sold "Design of a Decade" even more. But he still claims 4,000,000 copies sold (which is only SoundScan + BMG Music Club sales). The same goes for "Control" and "Rhythm Nation 1814." Janet was selling more than Michael everywhere in America, including Columbia House and there's no way Columbia was the only place where Michael was selling more. I see 0 logic in that. As I said, he is biased, subjective and serious Janet hater, as the majority of Michael's fans.
                                                  Gone.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Bojan
                                                    According to that guy, Michael Jackson sold:

                                                    Dangerous
                                                    BMG: 298,000
                                                    Columbia: 800,000

                                                    Janet sold:

                                                    Design of a Decade
                                                    BMG: 1,480,000
                                                    Columbia: 0

                                                    So, Janet who was outselling Michael in the USA ever since 1989, and prior that, since 1986, their sales were almost equal, didn't manage to sell her records through Columbia House at all? I'd rather say that if Michael sold "Dangerous" in 800,000 Janet sold "Design of a Decade" even more. But he still claims 4,000,000 copies sold (which is only SoundScan + BMG Music Club sales). The same goes for "Control" and "Rhythm Nation 1814." Janet was selling more than Michael everywhere in America, including Columbia House and there's no way Columbia was the only place where Michael was selling more. I see 0 logic in that. As I said, he is biased, subjective and serious Janet hater, as the majority of Michael's fans.
                                                    Well kinda. This is why after our conversation about Columbia I didn't take his estimates for Janet that seriously anymore. Also, Columbia was still pushing for Control, RN, and DOAD until the mid up to late 90s via ads in magazines so it is unlikely those albums didn't push significant units through the music club especially since Janet was on top of the game during the 90s. I don't know...it seems so odd

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