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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    I suppose Record Retailer had to devise a tie-break system in order to present what they saw as a credible chart. A chart with half a dozen ties each week (and therefore involving at least 12 records or, looking at it another way, almost 25% of everything in the chart) wouldn't have been acceptable. It would have highlighted the inherent problem of compiling a chart from a mere 30 shop returns.
    On the other hand if all 30 shops were supplying them with actual sales of records, rather than a points system the others were using it seems cock-eyed to me! Especially if he was then changing it to point system. One man compiling the chart was silly anyway. He should have employed a few teenagers to do it. There would have been plenty to do that sort of thing for little money at that time! They could have calculated actual sales and then he could have phoned a store to break any sales at the same level. It would have been a great marketing ploy to. The ONLY chart that counts what you buy!
    Pity they didn't have a desktop calculator in the 60's. He could have gone through the records like lightning
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

    Comment


    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 18th 1963

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 18th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
      1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 9900
      4 2 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 2 2 2 3 3 9490
      3 3 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 3 3 4 2 2 9170
      2 4 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 4 5 3 5 4 8910
      6 5 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 5 7 5 4 6 8400
      16 6 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 6= 4 8 6 9 8060
      9 7 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 6= 8 7 7 5 7880
      7 8 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 9 9 6 9 8 7740
      17 9 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 8 5 9 8 10 7680
      5 10 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 10 10 10 10 7 7020
      11 11 Losing You - Brenda Lee 11 12 12 11 11 6350
      8 12 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 12 14 11 12 12 6220
      15 13 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 13 11 13 13 16 6050
      10 14 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 14 18 14 14 13 5240
      23 15 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 15 13 19 15 14 4910
      12 16 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 16 18 16 17 15 4730
      21 17 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 17 15 17 18 19 4710
      13 18 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 18 22 15 16 17 4470
      22 19 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 20 17 20 24 21 3700
      14 20 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 19 24 18 19 18 3640
      27 21 Pipeline - The Chantays 21 16 23 22 22 3420
      19 22 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 23= 23 22 26 25 2580
      18 23 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 22 21 21 20 2330
      NEW 24 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 23= 21 27 20 28 2240
      24 25 My Way - Eddie Cochran 25 25 25 25 23 2040
      NEW 26 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 26 27 26 23 1550
      20 27 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 27 30 24 24 1360
      NEW 28 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 28 20 28 1250
      26 29 The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis 29 28 27 570
      NEW 30 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 30= 26 500
      28 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 29 30 350
      B Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 28 300
      X Just Listen To My Heart - The Spotnicks 29 200
      X I Wanna Be Around - Tony Bennett 27 200
      29 Robot - The Tornados 30 30 180
      25 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 30 26 150
      X Shy Girl - The Cascades 29 100
      30 Charmaine - The Bachelors 29 60
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

      Comment


      • Jet and Tony close in at #2 but classic tune as it is it won't have the sales push to dislodge The Beatles from the top spot as both Cliff and Billy J. also rush into the Top 10. Manchester gets in on the group action too not wanting Liverpool to grab all the limelight as Freddie debuts at 26 with what will be the first of three Top 3 hits for them this year.

        Things are hotting up !
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

        Comment


        • It seems to me that the Guinness book missed out a week. They do not include the NME chart of w/e 5-Mar-60, the week before RR started. Has anyone commented on this before?

          Guinness give the 5-Mar-60 charting records one less week in the chart than they should. For example, Adam Faith's 'Poor Me' is stated as having 17 weeks in the chart instead of the 18 weeks it did and, more tellingly, only 1 week at number one instead of 2 weeks.

          Indeed at the changeover point in the Number Ones section there is an explanation of why their last NME chart is w/e 27-Feb (NME publication date 26-Feb) that simply doesn't make sense.

          The OCC does include the w/e 5-Mar-60 NME chart. (Although I notice they have Voice In The Wilderness and On A Slow Boat To China tied at number 4 that week, unlike the NME charts on this forum.)

          Comment


          • I can't be much help here as I only have 3 relevant Guinness books - the first edition from 1977 (does not use 4 Mar NME), Guinness Hits Of the 60's (Does not use 4 Mar NME) and the Version 17 Guinness (with albums) that does use that missing chart. The Virgin book does not use it (Adam Faith 17 weeks). This change happened after 1996 (The Top 40 book fro 1995 still has that odd comment in the front).
            http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
            Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

            Comment


            • To add to that, the Virgin Top 40 Charts book (2009) has the same problem. Their first chart is dated "week ending 10-Mar-60", but the last week positions are from the 27-Feb-60 NME chart, not the 5-Mar-60 NME chart.

              Comment


              • I think they just copied the old Guiness book.....
                http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                  The OCC does include the w/e 5-Mar-60 NME chart. (Although I notice they have Voice In The Wilderness and On A Slow Boat To China tied at number 4 that week, unlike the NME charts on this forum.)
                  That is definitely wrong. The original NME chart has Emile at 4 and Cliff at 5. No tie.

                  I too have long puzzled over those dates as the charts don't match up dates wise.
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • So you guys knew about the missing week. I have to admit it had escaped my attention until today when looking at the charts on this thread around that period.

                    Comment


                    • I've a copy of Guinness edition 16.

                      In the artist section Adam Faith's 'Poor Me' gets duly credited with 18 weeks.

                      But there's a separate section listing Number Ones and it gets just one week there!

                      Comment


                      • Maybe its around Guinness 16 that they competed the change?

                        I realised it was “missing” years ago when there was a 13 odd day gap between charts. I did the maths and worked out that the NME 4 Mar chart had to be included. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
                        http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                        Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                        Comment


                        • Can’t remember where I read it, but I remember I was sore about it. They skipped the NME chart that followed 60 Feb 26 and gave two reasons. One was that the NME chart was a Friday chart while RR was published Thursdays. The other was that the gap between chart date and publication date consisted of more days in the latter such nearing the gap between the two publications chart dates to less than 6 days.

                          Comment


                          • I always assumed a deliberate decision was taken not to have a gap of less than a full week between the two charts used....

                            Comment


                            • "The final NME chart used is that of 26 Feb 1960, as the chart published in RR on 10 Mar 1960 was dated 5 Mar 1960 and clearly corresponded with the NME chart of 4 Mar 1960."

                              They were making the absurd claim that RRs 5-Mar survey date corresponded with NMEs 4-Mar publication date.

                              Comment


                              • Whatever their theory was it ended up a mess obviously. I always thought I was the only one that didn't get their reasoning around dates when to me it was obvious a chart was missing. I see from above you guys had the same problem.

                                As 'Oliver Hardy' would have said 'That's another fine mess Guinness got us into'
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 25th 1963

                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 25th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                  1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                  2 2 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 2 2 2 5 2 9420
                                  3 3 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 4 5 3 4 5 8930
                                  9 4 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 3 3 6 2 3 8840
                                  6 5 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 5 4 7 3 4 8510
                                  7 6 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 6 6 5 6 6 8400
                                  5 7 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 7 7 4 7 7 8370
                                  4 8 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 8 8 8 9 8 7540
                                  8 9 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 9 9 9 8 11 7250
                                  10 10 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 10 12 10 12 12 6570
                                  11 11 Losing You - Brenda Lee 12 15 11 15 10 6030
                                  15 12 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 11 14 14 11 9 5910
                                  17 13 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 14 13 13 14 13 5890
                                  24 14 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 13 11 16 10 15 5780
                                  13 15 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 15 16 12 16 16 5550
                                  12 16 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 16 20 15 17 14 4710
                                  30 17 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 17 10 24 13 21 4350
                                  14 18 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 18= 21 17 20 18 4040
                                  21 19 Pipeline - The Chantays 18= 17 21 18 20 3880
                                  26 20 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 20 18 23 19 23 3340
                                  19 21 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 22 23 19 21 24 3310
                                  18 22 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 21 25 20 22 19 3060
                                  16 23 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 23 18 24 17 2720
                                  20 24 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 24 22 25 22 1920
                                  25 25 My Way - Eddie Cochran 25 26 25 26 25 1830
                                  NEW 26 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 26 19 23 1600
                                  28 27 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 27 22 30 30 1100
                                  23 28 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 28 26 26 900
                                  27 29 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 29= 27 27 720
                                  NEW 30 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 24 700
                                  B Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 29= 30 29 27 30 630
                                  22 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 28 28 540
                                  X Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka 27 400
                                  X Shy Girl - The Cascades 28 300
                                  B Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 28 29 210
                                  X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 29 200
                                  X She's New To You - Susan Maughan 29 100
                                  29 The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • If you look at the calender for 1960 you will see that the NME Charts are following the Friday day. The RR first issue comes on the 10 March a Thursday. So the sales could not have come from that week. So they had to be 5 March sales end week switched to Saturday not Friday. So the Guiness people were right not to use the 4 March NME.
                                    However they are not consistent as is the OCC with it's chart dates and the often use the publication date of RR as the week ending date later on.
                                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                    Comment


                                    • The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

                                      I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.

                                      Comment


                                      • Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                          The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

                                          I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.
                                          Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands
                                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                            Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?
                                            On purpose. They were cluttering up my house and I'd been meaning to get rid of them for many years.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                                              Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands
                                              It would have cost you a fortune in postage fees, they weighed quite a bit!

                                              Comment


                                              • kingofskiffle
                                                kingofskiffle commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                Hummmm. Yeah, you have a point.... A well. If you do want to get rid of anything else though do let me know.

                                            • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                              Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 1st 1963

                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 1st 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                              1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                              4 2 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 2 1 2 2 2 9670
                                              2 3 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 3 3 4 3 9190
                                              5 4 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 4 4 5 3 4 8810
                                              3 5 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 5 7 4 7 5 8430
                                              7 6 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 6 5 6 5 8 8340
                                              6 7 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 7 8 7 6 6 7900
                                              14 8 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 8 6 8 8 7 7820
                                              13 9 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 9 11 9 9 10 7030
                                              17 10 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 11 9 13 10 14 6460
                                              12 11 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 10 12 12 11 9 6410
                                              8 12 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 13 13 10 14 13 6340
                                              9 13 Nobody's Darlin But Mine - Frank Ifield 12 14 11 13 11 6200
                                              10 14 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 14 17 14 15 15 5230
                                              11 15 Losing You - Brenda Lee 15 18 15 16 12 5020
                                              NEW 16 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 16 9 21 12 22 4920
                                              20 17 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 17 15 17 17 16 4850
                                              15 18 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 18 22 16 18 17 4220
                                              19 19 Pipeline - The Chantays 19 21 19 19 19 3760
                                              16 20 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 20 28 18 23 18 3040
                                              21 21 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 24= 20 26 23 2140
                                              NEW 22 Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 21 23 26 27 20 2080
                                              26 23 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 26 19 29 21 29 2060
                                              NEW 24 Falling - Roy Orbison 22 16 20 2050
                                              18 25 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 23 29 22 29 21 1950
                                              23 26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 27= 23 24 1410
                                              30 27 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 24= 20 28 1250
                                              24 28 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 29= 24 26 1200
                                              22 29 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 29= 25 30 25 1130
                                              NEW 30 Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 27= 25 25 28 990
                                              25 My Way - Eddie Cochran 27 27 720
                                              X Out Of My Mind - Johnny Tillotson 24 700
                                              X Shy Girl - The Cascades 29= 25 600
                                              27 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 30 28 550
                                              B The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 22 450
                                              X Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka 27 400
                                              X Just Like Me - The Hollies 24 350
                                              28 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 30 30 180
                                              29 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • Liverpool piles on the pressure, The Beatles hold #1, Billy J, closes in at #2, Billy F, takes #8, and just as Gerry's How leaves the top ten his I Like crashes in at #16. We are moving inexorably towards that really interesting period when 1963 really catches fire
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • duplicate
                                                  Last edited by Splodj; Thu April 29, 2021, 11:45.

                                                  Comment

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