The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Woz1234]

Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

Sorry for delay

No worries, it's working now.

Thanks Brian

[MrTibbs]

Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

Sorry for delay

[MrTibbs]

The file is in my Dropbox guys. I just need help on sharing it. Lonnie is helping and I will let you guys know soon as .

[kingofskiffle]

The sharing function has not been done on the link. Once he redoes it then it will work fine.

[brian05]

Do you need to have a Dropbox account?

[Woz1234]

The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

Enjoy

Doesn't Work

[MrTibbs]

The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

Enjoy

[braindeadpj]

Looks like it would've been Billy Fury at 24, The Tymes at 25, and The Big Three at 26 on the BBC chart assuming 31 points for a non-top 30 position. Also The Surfaris, Adam Faith and Billy Fury would've been equal on points....

[Splodj]

After 4-Nov-63 when the Beatles sang 'Twist and Shout' at the Royal Variety Performance ("rattle yer jewellery") the EP headed back up and on 23-Nov-63 re-entered the Top 20. It may have been this that prompted the BBC to change their calculation method, because the following week it also re-entered the BBC Top 20. It was actually played in POTPs Unit 1 as a new entry!

[Robbie]

They divided the total points by 3 to arrive at an average for RR. But looking ahead it seems that they did not apply this to Twist & Shout, as it seems to be consistently lowly placed.

If POTP did this for other EPs it seems strange that this wasn't done for T&S. Perhaps it was because, initially, Melody Maker also didn't chart the EP and seemed to have excluded it?

[MrTibbs]

I've been busy all morning and early afternoon and have just finished finished completing the Top Pops/Music Now chart re-dating exercise ahead of time.

Theirs is another interesting chart for reading and comparing, initially compiled from around 12 W H Smith shops then around 30 - 40 from March 1970.

Most of the dates needing correction were from 1968 and early 1969, then at the end of 1970 when a double date chart wasn't dated correctly. Every chart was checked for correct dates and dated where wrong.
Not easy to work on due to poor quality print difficult to read at times on many issues and no chart dates on a lot of the earlier issues further complicated by trying to line up with missing weeks but I managed to complete it nonetheless helped further by having a list of the #1 records and dates. So all the charts are now accurately dated in a folder disregarding handwritten estimated dates written on the charts themselves some of which are now found to be wrong.

I have them in a zip folder so if any of you guys wants these updated corrected charts to add to your collections send me your email in a private message and I will forward them on to you.

Brian

[MrTibbs]

Perhaps the BBC only introduced their RR-compensating method for EPs at some point between the two charts - I e. sometime in late 1963.

The BBC should either have never included RR in its calculations at all because it differed from the other three in respect of this until the and of 1967, or, not include EP's at all in its calculations, although this would have been the greater of the two evils as EP's were an important feature of sixties musical culture.

Instead the BBC dithered and chopped and changed its methodology rendering its chart ineffective due to being error ridden and inconsistent.

[MrTibbs]

You must have been thinking of vaulting over a horse in PE gymnastic lessons.

I could never do it at primary school !

[Splodj]

Perhaps the BBC only introduced their RR-compensating method for EPs at some point between the two charts - I e. sometime in late 1963.

[brian05]

Johnny Kidd's 'Never Get Over You' was hugely popular in my class at primary school as I remember. Lots of guys used to sing it.

You must have been thinking of vaulting over a horse in PE gymnastic lessons.

I could never do it at primary school !

[MrTibbs]

There was inconsistency in application by the BBC in this as much as there was in ties. Sometimes they just added the 31 which was a crazy calculation anyway and meaningless and other times used an average of the other three charts.

[Splodj]

If you look at the very first chart on this thread in Jan 1964 you can see how the BBC compensated for RR on Twist & Shout properly.

The total points from the other 3 charts is 46. Divide this by 3 and you get an average position of 15. Add this to the 46 (as if it were the position it should have been in RR) and you get 61 points. This places it at number 16, ahead of number 17 with 62 points.

[Splodj]

They divided the total points by 3 to arrive at an average for RR. But looking ahead it seems that they did not apply this to Twist & Shout, as it seems to be consistently lowly placed.

[kingofskiffle]

Simply adding in 31 as the RR chart position places the EP in the correct position on the chart in the last two POTP charts.

And that's how they did it. Anything which did not appear in the chart was awarded 31 points, as if it had bene at 31....

[Robbie]

Looks like the BBC messed up their RR-compensating calculation for the Beatles EP.

Are you going to include Top Pops in the Ultimate?

I think the Top Pops chart is compiled from too few charts to be included. At 12 shops it's not going to be very reliable and possibly may also be very volatile?

How did POTP compensate for EPs missing from the RR chart? I think it may have been explained before but if so I don't know where to find it. Simply adding in 31 as the RR chart position places the EP in the correct position on the chart in the last two POTP charts.

[MrTibbs]

Looks like the BBC messed up their RR-compensating calculation for the Beatles EP.

Are you going to include Top Pops in the Ultimate?

I considered that Splodj along with considering the other charts that came and went and decided against it on that basis mainly. NME, MM, RM, Disc, RR were mainstays for consistently longer periods and were considered 'the main' charts so decided for consistency throughout to stick with them. Also Top Pops only compiled from around a dozen stores so is even worse than RR but is an interesting side chart though.

[Splodj]

Looks like the BBC messed up their RR-compensating calculation for the Beatles EP.

Are you going to include Top Pops in the Ultimate?

[MrTibbs]

A side issue guys. I'm also working my way through my copies of the Top Pops chart between 1968 and 1971. This was a chart based solely on W H Smith stores. Robin mentioned to me back last year when he gave them to me that most charts had no date on the page and some issues were missing so there may well be some wrong dates attributed to some charts. Although efforts had been made to try and date these correctly he couldn't be sure these were all correct which detracted from an accurate weekly chart flow.

I came across a list of the Top Pops #1's by accident yesterday, likely one of the documents I got from Dave Taylor, and the weeks that they achieved this. With this dated list and last week positions I have been able to work my way through the charts and correctly date them. I am half way through this at present and quite a number have had to be re dated already. So within the next few days these will all be correctly dated and a correct record of available Top Pop charts completed.

[MrTibbs]

The Twist And Shout bandwagon picks up speed, The Tremeloes go top 5 as The Beatles soar to #11. The Isley's give up and leave the chart.

Johnny Kidd's 'Never Get Over You' was hugely popular in my class at primary school as I remember. Lots of guys used to sing it.

The most important thing this week though is an insignificant chart entry by a group at #30 on Disc in the breakers. They won't be insignificant for long.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 27th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 27th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					2	2	2	2	2	9570
6	3	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					3	3	3	3	3	9240
3	4	I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					5	6	4	4	7	8620
7	5	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					4	5	5	5	5	8580
5	6	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					6	4	7	6	6	8300
4	7	Atlantis - The Shadows					7	7	6	7	4	8160
8	8	Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles					9	10	8	12	8	7190
11	9	It's My Party - Lesley Gore					8	9	10	10	9	7060
15	10	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					10	13	9	8	12	6820
22	11	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					14	8	14	9		6571
12	12	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					11	11	12	11	11	6450
9	13	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					12	12	11	13	10	6430
10	14	Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly					13	14	13	14	13	5790
18	15	You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch					15	15	17	15	18	4890
16	16	From Me To You - The Beatles					16	18	16	18	15	4680
13	17	If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers					17	21	15	20	16	4400
14	18	Falling - Roy Orbison					18	22	18	19	14	3960
29	19	I Wonder - Brenda Lee					19	19	22	16	20	3630
24	20	Theme From 'The Legion's Patrol' - Ken Thorne					20	16	23	17	25	3580
17	21	Forget Him - Bobby Rydell					21	24	19	21	17	3420
20	22	Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan					22=	24	21		21	2500
19	23	Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					22=	27	20		19	2410
NEW	24	So Much In Love - The Tymes						17		26		1650
NEW	25	By The Way - The Big Three						28	25	23		1600
NEW	26	In Summer - Billy Fury						20		22		1550
NEW	27	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					27	28	28	24	28	1190
23	28	Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee							24		27	1170
NEW	29	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					28	22		28	29	1110
21	30	When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury					30		26		22	1020
25		Walkin' Tall - Adam Faith					29	26	30		23	890
B		The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas							27		26	750
X		Come On Home - The Springfields						30		27		300
27		The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados							29			300
X		I'll Cut Your Tail Off - John Leyton								25		300
26		Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard									24	210
28		Twist And Shout - The Isley Brothers								29		100
B		Come On - The Rolling Stones								30		50
30		In Dreams - Roy Orbison									30	30
		* Oddly, The BBC manuscript does not list numbers 24, 25, and 26. It has to be The Tymes, The Big Three and Billy Fury though.