The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

I must admit to preferring Marianne Fairhfull's version. Loved it then. Love it now.

[Splodj]

The first import I bought was the Stones; the Italian version of As Tears Go By. They were in a box on the counter. At least the dealer said he had imported them. Now I am not so sure!

[Splodj]

It is quite a big step to override and omit a number one that might well have been the real biggest seller that week. Personally I do not doubt the MM position, but would like to know why RR was even more astray than usual.

[Splodj]

If the Beeb gave 'Runaway' it's moment in the sun then most would have regarded it as a number one at the time. Oi

he first ompo

[MrTibbs]

Also the BBC did not include RM or RR in their chart so it is only a partial overview.

[MrTibbs]

I dont agree Graham. The figures are spot on. Thats what the charts say. Thats what the stores say. Thats what the calculations say. I wont alter facts to present what some would like to see. Thats the correct outcome. If your real chart says different then show us the actual documented evidence to prove it and not just the outcome opinion. My evidence is transparent and all there for everyone to see.

[Graham76man]

That's a real pity as clearly your 110 rule has altered the chart, even greater than the BBC chart. I did warn you when you first started these charts that charts with much higher figures they would distort the chart. The MM clearly f***** up that week!

[Graham76man]

There is no way that NME knew what was advanced and what was selling if it had been issued that week. All they got back from each shop was a list of records. The shop itself might have made up the entire list. Only Record Mirror ever published any shop lists of sellers, the rest didn't and to my knowledge nobody has seen one list from any of the other chart compilers. As for NME removing records there's no evidence for that either, as they didn't remove or combine two sided discs or LP's from the lists. This proves that some shops were putting down one side of a disc in the return and the others putting the other. Where such "other side" discs are lower that would show the vast majority of sellers put the higher charting side most in the chart they sent back. Let's face they NME and the rest were simply doing what Brian and the BBC did, getting top ten charts and adding them all up.

[MrTibbs]

Runaway takes #1 this week this week due to holding 2 out of 3 of the 3 point rule. It has most points and best profile.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 27th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 27th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Runaway - Del Shannon*					1	2	1	1	2	5	9650
1	2	Blue Moon - The Marcels					5	7	3	2	5	2	8960
6	3	The Frightened City - The Shadows					3	4	4	5	3	4	8850
NEW	4	Surrender - Elvis Presley					2	1	1	4	1	27	8790
4	5	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					4	3	5	6	4	3	8740
2	6	You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven					6	8	8	3	7	1	8400
5	7	More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee					7	5	6	8	6	6	8110
7	8	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					8	10	7	7	8	11	7510
14	9	You'll Never Know - Shirley Bassey					9	6	9	11	11	14	7030
10	10	What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis					10	11	11	9	9	16	6770
8	11	Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley					14	17	12	10	15	7	6090
17	12	But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry					12	9	10	17	12	19	5870
9	13	Easy Going Me - Adam Faith					11	12	18	12	13	12	5860
11	14	Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy					13	15	15	14	10	8	5850
12	15	A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas					16=	16	16	15	18	10	5140
24	16	Little Devil - Neil Sedaka					16=	14	13	16	19	30	4720
13	17	Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard					15	20		13	14	13	4250
15	18	Warpaint - The Brook Brothers					19	19		18	16	9	3800
19	19	Have A Drink On Me - Lonnie Donegan					18	13	14		17	17	3580
16	20	African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth						21	20		20	15	2490
18	21	Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette						24	17			20	1730
21	22	How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson						30		19		23	1640
NEW	23	Running Scared - Roy Orbison								20			1210
20	24	Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher						22				18	1110
28	25	Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury					20	18					1040
NEW	26	Hello Mary Lou - Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson						27	19				1040
22	27	I Still Love You All - Kenny Ball						23				24	850
27	28	My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra						25					480
NEW	29	I've Told Every Little Star - Linda Scott						26					400
26	30	Are You Sure - The Allisons										21	300
		* 3 Point Rule Applied
		F.B.I. - The Shadows										22	270
		Why Not Now - Matt Monro						28					240
		And The Heavens - Cried - Anthony Newley										25	180
		Spurs Song - The Totnamites						29					160
		Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis										26	150
		Lazy River - Bobby Darin										28	90
		A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart										29	60

[Metalweb]

Maybe it's just a question of semantics….


This wiki article maintains it was pressed as an export but charted as an import....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_and_My_Shadows

[Splodj]

I've mentioned how the RM singles reviewer was sent a copy at the end of April, weeks after it charted. There is a lot of info on the web about how this was an import - Wiki etc.

It is even identified as an import when it entered at 33 here ...

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...068#post467068

[Metalweb]

Was 'Gee Whiz It's You' an import in the true sense of the word? I'm sure I've read that the single was pressed in the UK and was meant for export to continental Europe but enough copies were diverted to UK shops to make it an unofficial UK release.

Guinness note it as an "export single".

[Robbie]

Was 'Gee Whiz It's You' an import in the true sense of the word? I'm sure I've read that the single was pressed in the UK and was meant for export to continental Europe but enough copies were diverted to UK shops to make it an unofficial UK release.

[Metalweb]

Tim Rice said 'Runaway' was his all-time favourite record. This was in the 70s (when he was compiling Guinness) so don't know if it is still.

He took it to his desert island in '76 but it lost out to Tammy Wynette !


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p009n0z8

[Splodj]

I think it extremely likely that NME were using advance orders then, as they had it come in at No. 1 and RR at 27. Presley records that were long anticipated like this built up advance orders over weeks, but the chart compilers clearly had a policy of not registering them until the record had been released. This strikes me as a sensible policy.

As for imports, as 'Gee Whiz' had charted on imports alone I see no reason why 'Surrender' would not have charted in the same way if imports of it had sold in sufficient numbers.

[Graham76man]

Something unusual happened in that week (20 May) in the Real Chart. Elvis went flying in at Number One a week before the other charts. Two things might explain that. One paid upfront advanced orders. Though NOT people saying can you save me a copy without putting the money down. Or shops selling the USA copies, which had been issued in March over there. 45 Cat had no specific date on the record except May. But I found a Disc Paper and it confirmed that the record came out on the 19 May so I have updated 45 Cat to show this date.
The Disc article does mention that advanced orders of the Elvis single were expected to be greater than the previous by him.
As always with the Compilers of the Real Chart they will not tell me if they are advanced orders or if any USA records were purchased. It could be a combination of both. But since none of the charts of that time have it the charts that week. None were using advanced orders from the retailers. As the week ending charts for the 27 May cover the 19 May date, even if only for two days. But as we know already you can shift a lot of records in two days.

PS: I was going to post this early today, but UKMIX broke down again.

[MrTibbs]

Frank Sinatra is a re-entry with My Blue Heaven on the 20th May Chart. It was at 30 on the 6th May.

Amended

[braindeadpj]

Frank Sinatra is a re-entry with My Blue Heaven on the 20th May Chart. It was at 30 on the 6th May.

[Splodj]

Tim Rice said 'Runaway' was his all-time favourite record. This was in the 70s (when he was compiling Guinness) so don't know if it is still.

[MrTibbs]

Del Shannon is heading for #1 but he will soon have very strong competition !

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 20th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 20th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Blue Moon - The Marcels					1	2	1	1	1	3	9760
2	2	You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven					2	3	2	2	2	2	9490
9	3	Runaway - Del Shannon					3	1	3	3	4	8	9200
4	4	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					4	5	5	4	3	1	8910
6	5	More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee					6=	4	6	7	7	4	8310
12	6	The Frightened City - The Shadows					6=	6	4	6	6	9	8280
3	7	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					5	7	8	5	5	5	8240
5	8	Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley					8	8	7	8	8	6	7710
14	9	Easy Going Me - Adam Faith					9	12	9	11	10	12	6660
17	10	What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis					11	10	10	12	15	14	6340
7	11	Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy					10	11	16	13	9	7	6300
8	12	A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas					12	16	13	10	11	10	6220
10	13	Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard					13	19	11	9	13	11	6080
28	14	You'll Never Know - Shirley Bassey					14	9	14	15	18	20	5520
11	15	Warpaint - The Brook Brothers					15	15	18	14	14	13	5320
13	16	African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth					16	14	15	18	12	16	5150
24	17	But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry					17	13	12	17	19	19	5080
18	18	Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette					18	16	19	16	20	15	4600
21	19	Have A Drink On Me - Lonnie Donegan					19	16	17		16	18	3180
19	20	Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher						20		20		17	2510
23	21	How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson						22		19		24	2250
22	22	I Still Love You All - Kenny Ball					20	20			17	26	1730
16	23	Lazy River - Bobby Darin						24	20			22	1490
NEW	24	Little Devil - Neil Sedaka						22					720
30	25	Words - The Allisons						25					480
15	26	Are You Sure - The Allisons						29				21	460
RE	27	My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra						26					400
NEW	28	Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury						27					320
NEW	29	Spurs Song - The Totnamites						28					240
20	30	Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis										23	240
		F.B.I. - The Shadows										25	180
		And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley										27	120
		(I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney										28	90
		I've Told Every Little Star - Linda Scott						30					80
		Mother-In-Law - Ernie K-Doe										29	60
		Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford										30	30

[MrTibbs]

Yeah it is very unusual brain. If I remember correctly it has only happened once before in the top ten, it usually occurs between 21 and 30 as only NME and RR compile a chart beyond a top 20 at this stage.

[braindeadpj]

That's unusual. Two lots of tied points (3 & 4 and 8 & 9) in the top 10 (both split by MM position). Is that a first?

[MrTibbs]

I used the same criteria as I always do for tied points Brian, that being, which had most points from the music paper with most returns. As Helen placed higher in MM she was awarded the higher place. The BBC average was only taken from NME, MM, and Disc at this time with RM and RR not included.