The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Robbie]

According to wikiepdia Jet Harris was involved in a car crash in September 1963 which ended the partnership. It seems Harris was unable to play guitar for some time afterwards.

[MrTibbs]

In one step The Beatles capture #1. Only RR, surprise surprise, denies them that accolade.

Jet Harris and Tony Meehan enter with Applejack, a third brilliant and much loved record by me, then will vanish into oblivion. I believe they split up which is a great pity as their three '63 hits were all masterpieces to my mind.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 7th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 7th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
7	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	3	9840
1	2	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					2	2	2	2	1	9600
2	3	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					3	3	3	3	2	9270
5	4	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					4	4	4	4	4	8910
4	5	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					5	5	5	5	5	8580
3	6	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					6	8	6	10	6	7850
10	7	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					8	10	7	6	11	7550
9	8	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					7	6	10	9	7	7470
8	9	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					9	11	8	8	8	7290
13	10	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					10	7	12	7	10	7080
6	11	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					12	13	9	11		6700
14	12	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					11	8	13	12	9	6610
11	13	In Summer - Billy Fury					13	12	11	13	13	6340
12	14	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					14	15	14	15	12	5520
18	15	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					15	14	15	14	14	5460
15	16	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					16	21	16	17	15	4430
22	17	Still - Karl Denver					17	17	20	16	17	4220
16	18	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					19	30	17	21	19	3060
26	19	Come On - The Rolling Stones					21	22	22	20	24	3010
17	20	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					18		18	19	16	3000
19	21	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					20	27	19	24	18	2940
30	22	I Wanna Stay Here - Mike and Griff					22	16	27	28	23	2490
21	23	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					23		21	22	21	2250
20	24	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					25	28	23		20	1830
28	25	Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells					24		25	18	22	1820
NEW	26	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					26	19		23		1600
NEW	27	Whispering - The Bachelors					28	18		30	29	1410
25	28	Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon					29	22	29	27		1400
29	29	Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball					30=	29	24		27	1370
NEW	30	Surf City - Jan and Dean					27	25	30	26	26	1150
B		Still - Ken Dodd					30=	20				1100
23		You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch							26		28	840
X		Frankie And Johnny - Sam Cooke						24		29		800
B		Wishing - Buddy Holly					30=	26		25		800
24		Atlantis - The Shadows							28		25	630
		By The Way - The Big Three									30	30
27		I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers

[Graham76man]

Not everyone liked the Beatles!
Mod mag - Hate beatles.JPG

[Graham76man]

I would put that down to crap charts not that Beatlemania had not taken off.

[Splodj]

Yes the sign that Beatlemania had not yet taken hold is that it didn't enter at number one.

I don't know when the master tapes disappeared. They couldn't find them when they wanted to make a stereo version of She Loves You for the 1966 Oldies LP, and it appears the tapes were already lost when they recorded the German version because they had to redo the backing as well as the vocals - whereas on I Want To Hold Your Hand they only needed to overdub the vocals.

[Robbie]

'She Loves You' seems to be the point at which true Beatlemania was born. They were popular before the single was released but this seemed to be the single that took them from being popular to the next level.

[MrTibbs]

and here they come again .. the tidal wave that will be The Beatles chart domination over the next few months begins as She Loves You crashes onto the chart shore at #7. It will go to #1 next week for the first of two spells there and will remain in the top three until January 1964, and I can always say, I saw it happen

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 31st 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 31st 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					1	1	1	1	1	9900
4	2	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					2	3	2	2	2	9470
2	3	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					3	5	3	5	3	8940
9	4	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					4	6	5	6	6	8400
15	5	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					5	4	6	5	10	8380
3	6	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					6	10	4	7		8070
NEW	7	She Loves You - The Beatles					7	2	12	3	12	7720
8	8	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					8	8	8	9	5	7630
14	9	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					10	7	9	12	7	7370
7	10	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					9	9	10	8	4	7310
5	11	In Summer - Billy Fury					11	12	7	10	8	7240
6	12	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					12	14	11	14	9	6210
25	13	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					14	10	14	11	19	6010
16	14	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					13	13	13	13	11	6000
10	15	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					15	15	16	15	13	5190
13	16	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					16	18	17	16	16	4600
12	17	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					17	23	15	17	14	4410
23	18	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					18	16	21	18	17	4070
19	19	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					20	19	18	21	20	3980
11	20	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					19	21	19	22	15	3730
18	21	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					21	21	20	19	18	3640
28	22	Still - Karl Denver					22	17	25	20	25	3030
20	23	You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch					23	26	23		22	1970
17	24	Atlantis - The Shadows					24=		22	30	21	1700
NEW	25	Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon					26	20		23		1500
24	26	Come On - The Rolling Stones					24=	25	29	27	23	1340
21	27	I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					30=		24		29	1110
RE	28	Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells					27		27	24	26	1100
RE	29	Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball					30=	29	26	29		1050
NEW	30	I Wanna Stay Here - Miki and Griff					28	24		26		950
B		Surf City - Jan and Dean					29	30		25	28	490
22		I Wonder - Brenda Lee							28		30	480
B		Whispering - The Bachelors						27				400
X		Surfin' USA - The Beach Boys						28				300
30		By The Way - The Big Three									24	210
26		Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles							30			150
B		Searchin' - The Hollies								28		150
X		The Good Life - Tony Bennett									27	120
27		It's My Party - Lesley Gore
29		So Much In Love - The Tymes

[brian05]

She Loves You .. The record that was the catalyst for introducing me into the world of popular music and a lifetime obsession with charts. I got She Loves You and the Twist And Shout EP for Christmas among others with my new Dansette record player, then with Christmas money I received bought I Want To Hold Your Hand. I was by now totally committed to 'The Fab Four'.

Identical to my start to record collecting in December 1963. I also bought Gerry's "You'll Never Walk Alone". Seems a long time ago - but they were great times!!

[MrTibbs]

Inexplicable that EMI lost the 'She Loves You' master tapes, even before a stereo mix had been made.

Oh, I never knew about that one. How and when did they lose the master tapes ?

[Splodj]

Inexplicable that EMI lost the 'She Loves You' master tapes, even before a stereo mix had been made.

[MrTibbs]

She Loves You .. The record that was the catalyst for introducing me into the world of popular music and a lifetime obsession with charts. I got She Loves You and the Twist And Shout EP for Christmas among others with my new Dansette record player, then with Christmas money I received bought I Want To Hold Your Hand. I was by now totally committed to 'The Fab Four'.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah highest in NME and Disc, as its probably the 'advance order' inclusion factor again.

[brian05]

Cliff at no. 6 in NME but only 20 in MM and 25 in RR.

[Splodj]

It is more noticeable when RR lags on risers, but there are some maverick RR positions there on fallers too ...
Brian Pool at 7 (10 in the others)
Crystals at 8 (12-14 in the others)
Brenda Lee at 15 (23-26 in the others)

Meanwhile, 'She Loves You' released 23rd August.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 24th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 24th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					1	1	1	1	1	9900
1	2	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					2	2	2	2	2	9570
2	3	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					4	5	3	4		8960
12	4	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					3	3	5	3	3	8940
7	5	In Summer - Billy Fury					5	4	6	5	5	8530
4	6	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					6	7	4	7	4	8460
8	7	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					7	9	7	6	6	7800
10	8	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					8=	8	9	9	10	7330
13	9	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					8=	11	8	8	9	7260
5	10	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					10	10	10	10	7	7020
6	11	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					12	12	13	12	11	6150
11	12	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					11	14	12	13	8	6140
9	13	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					14	16	11	14	14	5860
19	14	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					13	13	14	15	12	5720
NEW	15	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					15	6	20	11	25	5330
24	16	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					16	16	17	16	18	4740
14	17	Atlantis - The Shadows					18	23	15	19	16	4250
16	18	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					17	26	16	17	13	3990
21	19	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					19	19	19	18	21	3950
15	20	You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch					21	21	21	20	17	3470
17	21	I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					22		18	24	20	2630
22	22	I Wonder - Brenda Lee					20	24	23	26	15	2630
NEW	23	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					23	15		21	27	2220
27	24	Come On - The Rolling Stones					24=	20	27		24	1910
NEW	25	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					24=	18		22		1750
18	26	Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles					26		22		19	1710
20	27	It's My Party - Lesley Gore					27=		24	30	22	1370
NEW	28	Still - Karl Denver					27=	22		23		1300
23	29	So Much In Love - The Tymes					30		25	28	26	1200
26	30	By The Way - The Big Three					29	27	28		23	1090
25		Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale							26		29	810
30		Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball						24		29		800
28		Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells							29	27	28	590
X		Surfin' USA - The Beach Boys						28				300
B		Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon								25		300
B		Surf City - Jan and Dean						29			30	230
X		The Good Life - Tony Bennett							30			150
B		Whispering - The Bachelors						30				100
29		From Me To You - The Beatles

[TopTwenty]

Great discovery Splodj. Some of the other shows look good too. I'll certainly be giving this a listen

This is an excellent show. It has been running since March 2020. The previous editions can be found on Mixcloud.com. Just search for “208 Top 20” or “Simon Tate”.

[MrTibbs]

It

There is an online radio station called United DJs which has a 208 Top 20s show 7pm Sundays. Tonight features the Radio Luxembourg Top 20s from 1962 and 1988.

Great discovery Splodj. Some of the other shows look good too. I'll certainly be giving this a listen

[Splodj]

It appears the BBC tiebreaked in favour of the Twist And Shout LP, as it was rising and Confessin falling. Both scored 12 points.

There is an online radio station called United DJs which has a 208 Top 20s show 7pm Sundays. Tonight features the Radio Luxembourg Top 20s from 1962 and 1988.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 17th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 17th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Sweets For My Sweet - The Seachers					1	1	1	1	1	9900
4	2	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					3	4	2	3		9290
8	3	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					2	2	4	2	3	9240
2	4	Confessin ' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					4	3	3	4	2	9220
5	5	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					5	6	5	8	4	8360
3	6	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					6	8	6	5	5	8130
10	7	In Summer - Billy Fury					7	5	9	6	6	7900
11	8	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					8	9	7	7	7	7720
7	9	Sukiyaki - Kyu Samamoto					10	12	8	11	9	7010
14	10	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					9	10	11	9	10	6830
6	11	Do Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					11	11	10	12	8	6790
28	12	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					12	7	17	10	14	6060
16	13	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					13	13	13	13	12	5970
9	14	Atlantis - The Shadows					14	15	12	15	11	5850
13	15	You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch					15	15	16	14	15	5180
17	16	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					16	17	15	19	13	4940
12	17	I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					17	20	14	16	16	4850
15	18	Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles					19	19	18	24	18	3890
27	19	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					18	14	25	17	20	3630
18	20	It's My Party - Lesley Gore					20	22	19	20	19	3610
22	21	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					21	23	20	18	22	3370
19	22	I Wonder - Brenda Lee					22	24	21	23	17	3020
21	23	So Much In Love - The Tymes					23	21	24	21	21	2850
30	24	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					24	18	26	22	26	2650
20	25	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					25	26	22	25	24	2360
23	26	By The Way - The Big Three					26	29	23	28	23	1790
26	27	Come On - The Rolling Stones					27	25	27	29	25	1480
NEW	28	Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells					28	29	29	26	29	810
24	29	From Me To You - The Beatles					29		28		27	570
NEW	30	Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball						27				400
B		Dance On - Kathy Kirby						28				300
X		The Good Life - Tony Bennett					29			27	28	290
25		Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly							30			150
B		Still - Ken Dodd								30		50
X		One Fine Day - The Chiffons									30	30
29		Falling - Roy Orbison

[Graham76man]

RR was doing an EP chart at the time! The BBC could have simply used that. That way they would have got the EP's charting.

Such as Gerry And The Pacemakers EP which reached 34 on MM and was 2 behind The Beatles at number one on RR.
Looking at the JULY releases on 45 Cat at least five EP's would have been selling well by the time of above chart.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah, but the points themselves are not the problem. It's the allocating of those points to every record outside of the RR top 30 arbitrarily whether they were 32, 37, or not even in the top 50. Twist wasn't charted as an EP on RR so you can't just pull no 31 out of the bag for it. That methodology is just inaccurate.

[Graham76man]

Twist and Shout by the Beatles could never had made number one at that point in time. It would have to knock off the top She Loves You! Let's face an expensive EP wouldn't knock a cheaper single by them off the top.
Even as I think T&S was a better track and dated better than She Loves You.

[Splodj]

The Beatles Twist And Shout EP should have been number one based on its sales figures

But note that its large 63/64 sales figures included a second wind after the Queen Mother had rattled her jewellery to it.