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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    Twist and Shout by the Beatles could never had made number one at that point in time. It would have to knock off the top She Loves You! Let's face an expensive EP wouldn't knock a cheaper single by them off the top.
    Even as I think T&S was a better track and dated better than She Loves You.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    The Beatles Twist And Shout EP should have been number one based on its sales figures
    But note that its large 63/64 sales figures included a second wind after the Queen Mother had rattled her jewellery to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The BBC chart can be criticised for many things, but giving a fixed 31 points to a record below number 30 is not one of them. (I mean on ordinary singles, of course!)

    It is the same as the Ultimate giving a fixed 0 points to a record below number 30. Zero is not a neutral concept, or at least not in this context, it is just a number between +1 and -1.

    Calculate a chart both ways - 'counting down using 31' and 'counting up using 0' - and they produce exactly the same result. If you have an example where they differ, using the same inputs, I would be interested to see it.

    However I do think there is an aesthetic advantage in counting up, as I prefer to see number one allocated the most points rather than the least.

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  • brian05
    replied
    The Beatles Twist And Shout EP should have been number one based on its sales figures, if only ALL the shops had returned EP sales (similarly for LP sales later).

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That 31 points system was meaningless really. It assumed every record in MM, NME, Disc, Top 30 not in RR could possibly be #31 so gave those points irregardless. Not an accurate method to calculate a chart.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    BBC using RR-compensating method last week and this week.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sat May 8, 2021, 10:02.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 10th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 10th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    1 2 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 2 2 2 2 2 9570
    3 3 Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley 3 3 3 4 3 9190
    5 4 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 4 4 4 3 8972
    4 5 Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 5 5 5 5 4 8610
    6 6 Do Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 6 6 7 8 5 8030
    9 7 Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 7 9 6 9 6 7800
    27 8 Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 8= 7 11 6 11 7250
    7 9 Atlantis - The Shadows 10 11 8 11 7 7170
    17 10 In Summer - Billy Fury 8= 8 12 7 8 7040
    15 11 Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne 12 12 9 12 14 6660
    8 12 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 11 13 10 13 9 6510
    13 13 You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch 14 14 13 15 10 5830
    20 14 Wipe Out - The Surfaris 13 10 17 10 13 5790
    10 15 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 16 15 14 16 17 5320
    19 16 I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 15 17 15 14 16 5100
    12 17 Welcome To Me World - Jim Reeves 18 18 16 18 15 4680
    11 18 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 17 16 18 20 12 4570
    16 19 I Wonder - Brenda Lee 19 20 19 17 18 3990
    14 20 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 20 19 20 19 23 3690
    25 21 So Much In Love - The Tymes 21 21 21 21 24 3210
    29 22 The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas 22 24 22 25 19 2710
    24 23 By The Way - The Big Three 23 28 23 26 22 2020
    21 24 From Me To You - The Beatles 24 24 28 20 1530
    18 25 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 25 29 25 29 21 1500
    30 26 Come On - The Rolling Stones 26= 27 27 24 28 1440
    NEW 27 You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles 26= 22 22 1350
    NEW 28 I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers 28 26 23 900
    23 29 Falling - Roy Orbison 30 26 27 870
    NEW 30 Just Like Eddie - Heinz 23 800
    X The Good Life - Tony Bennett 29 25 27 800
    26 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 28 26 600
    28 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 29 25 480
    B Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells 30 30 250
    X After You've Gone - Alice Babs 30 100
    X One Fine Day - The Chiffons 29 60
    X Come On Home - The Springfields 30 50
    X True Love- Richard Chamberlain 30 30
    22 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Even at this time the Music Publishers and Labels were still in control of the music output. Lennon and McCartney fell into the system. Epstein at first wanted to go with Elvis' publishers, but George Martin told him they would push the group to the back. He suggested several other publishers including Dick James, but Epstein only saw James. So they set up Northern Songs. All the material already written and new would go through that. So when the A&R people at the labels got these songs they assigned them to the groups and acts wanting songs to do. As most of the Mersey bands had signed to EMI, the A&R men of the EMI labels snapped any songs they heard and told the bands to sing them. At first even the Beatles themselves had to record other people's songs. But they soon got around that!

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  • Splodj
    replied
    According to 45cat, Come And Get It by Badfinger was released on 5-Dec-69. As this was credited only to McCartney, had it made the charts by Christmas it would have made them 66 apiece.

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  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Yes I meant Cold Turkey. Give Peace A Change is credited as Lennon/McCartney as thats what the label showed at the time. I want to be as accurate to that as I can.

    I do think it’s nice as they where a song writing partnership. I’m currently going through the 1980’s/1990’s and you get the same thing with Stock/Atkin/Waterman - One would have done more on one track than the others but collectively they wrote the songs and it all balances.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Just realised you must be referring to Cold Turkey. Apparently he even offered that for joint crediting. Strange how strongly he felt the obligation to do so even on songs McCartney had nothing to do with.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    All were joint credited except one in 1969 for the Plastic Ono Band.
    If you are referring to Give Peace A Chance that was joint credited. Look at the record label. Only long afterwards did Yoko insist it should be credited as Lennon only, probably in some deal with McCartney who had been crediting songs on Wings albums as McCartneyLennon.

    The great thing about the joint crediting is that, even though some songs were written only by one, everything worked out fairly overall.

    They seemed to get the releases right in West Germany, by maintaining the integrity of the UK albums but having a lot more singles. Good balance between the UK and US releasing policy.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Even album tracks of The Beatles covered by other artists and taken to #1 if released by The Beatles themselves would have given them more chart toppers. For example, Bad To Me, A World Without Love, Michelle, Ob-La-Di-Ob-La-Da, With A Little Help From My Friends.

    A potential and likely 5 more number ones although with 'Help' as it was a reworked version that might be debateable.

    Lots of other hits too picked by others would definitely have been bigger in The Beatles' own hands, 'Girl' and 'Got To Get You Into My Life' spring to mind as examples.

    If only EMI had pumped out all these as singles, and I still don't forgive them for not releasing 'The Long And Winding Road' Here.

    Criminal

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    When I added the composers to my database I worked it out. John Lennon is credited as composer on 66 hits in the 1960's - more than anybody else (only 1 more than Paul McCartney in second place) and way more than the 45 Gerry Goffin is credited on (third). His records spent 724 weeks in the official Top 50 and Breakers. All where joint credited except one in 1969 for the Plastic Ono Band.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    Another Lennon & McCartney song in at number 27. By this point both John Lennon and Paul McCartney must have been walking around with a notebook in their pockets, given the speed at which they seemed to be writing songs.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 3rd 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 3rd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 1 2 1 2 2 9720
    3 2 Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers 2 1 3 1 3 9540
    2 3 Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley 3 3 2 3 1 9450
    5 4 Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 4 4 4 4 4 8910
    11 5 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 5 6 6 5 8312
    6 6 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 6 5 7 6 5 8230
    7 7 Atlantis - The Shadows 7 7 5 8 7 8170
    4 8 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 8 9 8 7 6 7600
    10 9 Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 9 8 9 9 8 7390
    8 10 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 10 10 10 12 11 6800
    9 11 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 12 10 11 15 10 6530
    12 12 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 11 13 12 11 9 6310
    15 13 You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch 13 15 14 10 12 5770
    13 14 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 14 14 13 17 13 5640
    20 15 Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne 15 16 15 13 15 5280
    19 16 I Wonder - Brenda Lee 16 17 17 16 14 4760
    26 17 In Summer - Billy Fury 17 12 22 18 19 4260
    14 18 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 18 20 16 22 16 4250
    27 19 I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 20 20 18 19 21 3950
    29 20 Wipe Out - The Surfaris 19 18 24 14 20 3530
    16 21 From Me To You - The Beatles 21 27 19 23 17 3020
    17 22 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 23 25 21 27 23 2540
    18 23 Falling - Roy Orbison 22 20 26 18 2290
    25 24 By The Way - The Big Three 25 22 25 24 27 2270
    24 25 So Much In Love - The Tymes 24 22 29 20 26 1900
    21 26 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 27 23 25 24 1710
    NEW 27 Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 26 19 21 1700
    22 28 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 28= 24 27 25 1480
    NEW 29 The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas 28= 28 26 22 1320
    NEW 30 Come On - The Rolling Stones 30 26 500
    23 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 28 30 480
    B Just Like Eddie - Heinz 29 200
    28 Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 30 150
    X One Fine Day - The Chiffons 28 150
    B Wipe Out - The Saints 30 100
    X Come On Home - The Springfields 29 100
    Walkin' Tall - Adam Faith 28 90
    Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 29 60
    X I'll Cut Your Tail Off - John Leyton 30 50
    30 When Will You say I Love You - Billy Fury

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    ^
    Thanks MrTibbs, it's working fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

    Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

    Sorry for delay
    No worries, it's working now.

    Thanks Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

    Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

    Sorry for delay

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The file is in my Dropbox guys. I just need help on sharing it. Lonnie is helping and I will let you guys know soon as .

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  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    The sharing function has not been done on the link. Once he redoes it then it will work fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Do you need to have a Dropbox account?

    Leave a comment:


  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

    https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

    Enjoy
    Doesn't Work

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

    https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

    Enjoy

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Looks like it would've been Billy Fury at 24, The Tymes at 25, and The Big Three at 26 on the BBC chart assuming 31 points for a non-top 30 position. Also The Surfaris, Adam Faith and Billy Fury would've been equal on points....

    Leave a comment:

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