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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • There was inconsistency in application by the BBC in this as much as there was in ties. Sometimes they just added the 31 which was a crazy calculation anyway and meaningless and other times used an average of the other three charts.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

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    • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
      Johnny Kidd's 'Never Get Over You' was hugely popular in my class at primary school as I remember. Lots of guys used to sing it.
      You must have been thinking of vaulting over a horse in PE gymnastic lessons.

      I could never do it at primary school !

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      • Perhaps the BBC only introduced their RR-compensating method for EPs at some point between the two charts - I e. sometime in late 1963.

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        • Originally posted by brian05 View Post

          You must have been thinking of vaulting over a horse in PE gymnastic lessons.

          I could never do it at primary school !
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
            Perhaps the BBC only introduced their RR-compensating method for EPs at some point between the two charts - I e. sometime in late 1963.
            The BBC should either have never included RR in its calculations at all because it differed from the other three in respect of this until the and of 1967, or, not include EP's at all in its calculations, although this would have been the greater of the two evils as EP's were an important feature of sixties musical culture.

            Instead the BBC dithered and chopped and changed its methodology rendering its chart ineffective due to being error ridden and inconsistent.
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

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            • I've been busy all morning and early afternoon and have just finished finished completing the Top Pops/Music Now chart re-dating exercise ahead of time.

              Theirs is another interesting chart for reading and comparing, initially compiled from around 12 W H Smith shops then around 30 - 40 from March 1970.

              Most of the dates needing correction were from 1968 and early 1969, then at the end of 1970 when a double date chart wasn't dated correctly. Every chart was checked for correct dates and dated where wrong.
              Not easy to work on due to poor quality print difficult to read at times on many issues and no chart dates on a lot of the earlier issues further complicated by trying to line up with missing weeks but I managed to complete it nonetheless helped further by having a list of the #1 records and dates. So all the charts are now accurately dated in a folder disregarding handwritten estimated dates written on the charts themselves some of which are now found to be wrong.

              I have them in a zip folder so if any of you guys wants these updated corrected charts to add to your collections send me your email in a private message and I will forward them on to you.

              Brian
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                They divided the total points by 3 to arrive at an average for RR. But looking ahead it seems that they did not apply this to Twist & Shout, as it seems to be consistently lowly placed.
                If POTP did this for other EPs it seems strange that this wasn't done for T&S. Perhaps it was because, initially, Melody Maker also didn't chart the EP and seemed to have excluded it?

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                • After 4-Nov-63 when the Beatles sang 'Twist and Shout' at the Royal Variety Performance ("rattle yer jewellery") the EP headed back up and on 23-Nov-63 re-entered the Top 20. It may have been this that prompted the BBC to change their calculation method, because the following week it also re-entered the BBC Top 20. It was actually played in POTPs Unit 1 as a new entry!

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                  • Looks like it would've been Billy Fury at 24, The Tymes at 25, and The Big Three at 26 on the BBC chart assuming 31 points for a non-top 30 position. Also The Surfaris, Adam Faith and Billy Fury would've been equal on points....

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                    • The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

                      https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

                      Enjoy
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                        The Re-Dated Top Pops charts file is too big for email guys so I have put it in my Dropbox and you can all access this at

                        https://www.dropbox.com/home/Top%20P...Dated%20Charts

                        Enjoy
                        Doesn't Work

                        Comment


                        • Do you need to have a Dropbox account?

                          Comment


                          • The sharing function has not been done on the link. Once he redoes it then it will work fine.
                            http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                            Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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                            • The file is in my Dropbox guys. I just need help on sharing it. Lonnie is helping and I will let you guys know soon as .
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

                                https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

                                Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

                                Sorry for delay
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                  Ok sorted. I sent to Lonnie first and it worked so here is the link to the Top Pops folder for you guys

                                  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

                                  Let me know if it works for you guys too. Something new I've learned I guess.

                                  Sorry for delay
                                  No worries, it's working now.

                                  Thanks Brian

                                  Comment


                                  • ^
                                    Thanks MrTibbs, it's working fine.

                                    Comment


                                    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 3rd 1963

                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 3rd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                      1 1 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 1 2 1 2 2 9720
                                      3 2 Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers 2 1 3 1 3 9540
                                      2 3 Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley 3 3 2 3 1 9450
                                      5 4 Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 4 4 4 4 4 8910
                                      11 5 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 5 6 6 5 8312
                                      6 6 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 6 5 7 6 5 8230
                                      7 7 Atlantis - The Shadows 7 7 5 8 7 8170
                                      4 8 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 8 9 8 7 6 7600
                                      10 9 Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 9 8 9 9 8 7390
                                      8 10 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 10 10 10 12 11 6800
                                      9 11 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 12 10 11 15 10 6530
                                      12 12 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 11 13 12 11 9 6310
                                      15 13 You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch 13 15 14 10 12 5770
                                      13 14 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 14 14 13 17 13 5640
                                      20 15 Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne 15 16 15 13 15 5280
                                      19 16 I Wonder - Brenda Lee 16 17 17 16 14 4760
                                      26 17 In Summer - Billy Fury 17 12 22 18 19 4260
                                      14 18 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 18 20 16 22 16 4250
                                      27 19 I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 20 20 18 19 21 3950
                                      29 20 Wipe Out - The Surfaris 19 18 24 14 20 3530
                                      16 21 From Me To You - The Beatles 21 27 19 23 17 3020
                                      17 22 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 23 25 21 27 23 2540
                                      18 23 Falling - Roy Orbison 22 20 26 18 2290
                                      25 24 By The Way - The Big Three 25 22 25 24 27 2270
                                      24 25 So Much In Love - The Tymes 24 22 29 20 26 1900
                                      21 26 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 27 23 25 24 1710
                                      NEW 27 Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 26 19 21 1700
                                      22 28 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 28= 24 27 25 1480
                                      NEW 29 The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas 28= 28 26 22 1320
                                      NEW 30 Come On - The Rolling Stones 30 26 500
                                      23 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 28 30 480
                                      B Just Like Eddie - Heinz 29 200
                                      28 Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 30 150
                                      X One Fine Day - The Chiffons 28 150
                                      B Wipe Out - The Saints 30 100
                                      X Come On Home - The Springfields 29 100
                                      Walkin' Tall - Adam Faith 28 90
                                      Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 29 60
                                      X I'll Cut Your Tail Off - John Leyton 30 50
                                      30 When Will You say I Love You - Billy Fury
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • Another Lennon & McCartney song in at number 27. By this point both John Lennon and Paul McCartney must have been walking around with a notebook in their pockets, given the speed at which they seemed to be writing songs.

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                                        • When I added the composers to my database I worked it out. John Lennon is credited as composer on 66 hits in the 1960's - more than anybody else (only 1 more than Paul McCartney in second place) and way more than the 45 Gerry Goffin is credited on (third). His records spent 724 weeks in the official Top 50 and Breakers. All where joint credited except one in 1969 for the Plastic Ono Band.
                                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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                                          • Even album tracks of The Beatles covered by other artists and taken to #1 if released by The Beatles themselves would have given them more chart toppers. For example, Bad To Me, A World Without Love, Michelle, Ob-La-Di-Ob-La-Da, With A Little Help From My Friends.

                                            A potential and likely 5 more number ones although with 'Help' as it was a reworked version that might be debateable.

                                            Lots of other hits too picked by others would definitely have been bigger in The Beatles' own hands, 'Girl' and 'Got To Get You Into My Life' spring to mind as examples.

                                            If only EMI had pumped out all these as singles, and I still don't forgive them for not releasing 'The Long And Winding Road' Here.

                                            Criminal
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                                              All were joint credited except one in 1969 for the Plastic Ono Band.
                                              If you are referring to Give Peace A Chance that was joint credited. Look at the record label. Only long afterwards did Yoko insist it should be credited as Lennon only, probably in some deal with McCartney who had been crediting songs on Wings albums as McCartneyLennon.

                                              The great thing about the joint crediting is that, even though some songs were written only by one, everything worked out fairly overall.

                                              They seemed to get the releases right in West Germany, by maintaining the integrity of the UK albums but having a lot more singles. Good balance between the UK and US releasing policy.

                                              Comment


                                              • Just realised you must be referring to Cold Turkey. Apparently he even offered that for joint crediting. Strange how strongly he felt the obligation to do so even on songs McCartney had nothing to do with.

                                                Comment


                                                • Yes I meant Cold Turkey. Give Peace A Change is credited as Lennon/McCartney as thats what the label showed at the time. I want to be as accurate to that as I can.

                                                  I do think it’s nice as they where a song writing partnership. I’m currently going through the 1980’s/1990’s and you get the same thing with Stock/Atkin/Waterman - One would have done more on one track than the others but collectively they wrote the songs and it all balances.
                                                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                                  Comment


                                                  • According to 45cat, Come And Get It by Badfinger was released on 5-Dec-69. As this was credited only to McCartney, had it made the charts by Christmas it would have made them 66 apiece.

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