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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • brian05
    replied
    Referring back to 8th February 1969,

    You have I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations at no. 7 and Scaffold not in the chart in your RR listing.

    but chartwatcherdl in his Record Mirror listings has,
    Diana Ross/Supremes/Temptations at no. 37 and Scaffold at no. 7. Who is correct?

    Another mystery. For Lily the Pink,
    RM/RR run was,
    ... 7, 34, 19=, 22...

    whereas OCC run was,
    ... 7, 34, 20, 19, 22 ...

    So they have included an extra week.

    When Scaffold went from 7 to 34 - MRS. ROBINSON (EP) - Simon and Garfunkel went from 27 to 9, then out of Top 50. So perhaps Scaffold should have went 7, 9, 19 and Simon and Garfunkel should have went 27, 34 OUT.

    Can you solve this mystery?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Cheers Lonnie. I needed it for the 1969 averaged chart

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    I have the print version of Record Retailer for October 4th 1969 showing the two entries at nos. 3 and 16. But where would any "alternative chart" be published? Never heard of it.

    Elsewhere in that edition it stated there are 4,500 UK record shops and a further 1,000 non-record outlets stocking musicassettes.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Sent you a PM

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I need someone's help

    I have this somewhere but can't find it.

    On October 4th 1969 'Je T'aime' appeared twice on the RR chart at #3 and #16 due to being on Fontana who gave up on it and Major Minor who picked it up.

    But I also know RR had an alternative chart where both versions were combined sales wise. Anyone else got this chart please ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Yeah, the problem that prevented it reaching #1 on The Ultimate was that it did not reach #1 simultaneously on the NME, MM, Disc charts doing so on different weeks which diluted it's overall impact.
    Sometimes the Ultimate Chart gets it right and it did with that one. It's ironic really as the whole of the time Billy J was number two, he was behind the Beatles at one! So if Billy had topped the charts with that he would have knocked off the Beatles!

    On the other hand this week the Ultimate shows itself to be slow compared to ALL the shops, with Searches already at 2 and Elvis at 3 while Gerry is down to 4. Frank being top.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah, the problem that prevented it reaching #1 on The Ultimate was that it did not reach #1 simultaneously on the NME, MM, Disc charts doing so on different weeks which diluted it's overall impact.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Beatles 'Twist and Shout' EP released 12th July. The sleeve notes claimed that Billy Js 'Secret' had reached number one.
    They probably went with either NME or Melody Maker, both huge selling papers. It was 1, as we know, in all the other charts……

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Beatles 'Twist and Shout' EP released 12th July. The sleeve notes claimed that Billy Js 'Secret' had reached number one.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 13th 1963
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 13th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 1 2 1 1 1 9800
    4 2 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 2 1 2 2 2 9670
    2 3 Atlantis - The Shadows 3 4 3 3 3 9140
    18 4 Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley 4 3 5 4 10 8680
    3 5 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 6 8 4 5 8 8340
    5 6 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 5 6 7 6 5 8130
    7 7 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 7 8 6 9 7 7870
    6 8 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 8 12 8 7 4 7360
    11 9 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 11 10 10 10 12 6870
    13 10 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 10 11 11 8 9 6810
    15 11 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 9 7 13 12 6 6800
    9 12 Falling - Roy Orbison 12 14 9 11 11 6600
    NEW 13 Sweets For My Sweet - The Seachers 13 5 18 13 17 5870
    8 14 From Me To You - The Beatles 14 15 12 14 13 5840
    10 15 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 15 17 14 15 14 5260
    14 16 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 16 16 15 17 15 5080
    26 17 Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 17 13 17 16 19 5010
    12 18 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 18 21 16 18 16 4350
    23 19 Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 20= 18 19 22 25 3730
    20 20 Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 20= 24 20 19 21 3250
    28 21 You Can Never Stop me Loving You - Kenny Lynch 19 19 24 20 18 3190
    17 22 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 22 23 22 21 24 2860
    16 23 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 23 26 21 24 23 2590
    21 24 The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 25 25 23 22 2070
    19 25 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 24 27 25 23 20 2030
    25 26 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 26 20 26 26 2000
    27 27 Twist And Shout - The Isley Brothers 27= 21 1000
    NEW 28 Nature's Time For Love - Joe Brown 27= 29 29 29 27 720
    24 29 Rondo - Kenny Ball 30= 27 29 660
    22 30 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 30= 28 28 540
    B Walkin' Tall - Adam Faith 29 28 27 500
    X I'll Cut Your Tail off - John Leyton 30= 25 300
    B Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne 26 250
    X It's Too Late Now - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30 30 180
    B By The Way - The Big Three 28 150
    X The Good Life - Tony Bennett 30 100
    X Just Like Me - The Hollies 30 50
    29 Pipeline - The Chantays
    30 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The second version of Twist And Shout to chart enters and already overtakes The Isley Brothers but the biggest version is yet to come ..

    In too comes the wonderful Sukiyaki from Kyu Sakamoto.

    Elvis too enters at #18, after years of chart domination he recently suffered the indignity of failing to reach the top ten. He will go top three with 'Devil' but this will be his last top three record for two years, and will only reach the top ten once more too during this period.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 6th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 6th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    2 2 Atlantis - The Shadows 2 2 2 2 2 9570
    3 3 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 3 4 3 3 4 9110
    19 4 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 4 3 6 4 3 8740
    4 5 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 5 5 4 5 6 8700
    9 6 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 7 8 5 7 7 8120
    7 7 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 6 6 7 8 5 8030
    5 8 From Me To You - The Beatles 8 7 8 6 8 7790
    10 9 Falling - Roy Orbison 9 9 10 9 10 7080
    6 10 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 10 12 9 10 11 6850
    16 11 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 12 10 12 13 16 6300
    8 12 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 11 14 11 11 12 6270
    17 13 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 13 11 15 12 14 5860
    11 14 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 15 16 13 14 13 5590
    15 15 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 14 15 14 16 9 5560
    13 16 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 16 18 16 18 17 4620
    12 17 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 17 17 18 17 19 4410
    NEW 18 Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley 19 13 22 15 27 4070
    14 19 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 18 23 17 19 15 3980
    23 20 Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 21 21 21 22 21 3250
    18 21 The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 20 27 19 20 18 3140
    20 22 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 22 20 26 20 2230
    NEW 23 Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 26 20 25 2000
    25 24 Rondo - Kenny Ball 23= 28 23 27 24 1910
    28 25 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 28 24 24 1750
    NEW 26 Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 23= 19 21 1700
    30 27 Twist And Shout - The Isley Brothers 27 22 23 1300
    NEW 28 You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch 25 30 27 25 22 1270
    27 29 Pipeline - The Chantays 26 28 840
    21 30 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 29 28 29 25 730
    B Sweets For Me Sweets - The Searchers 24 700
    B Nature's Time For Love - Joe Brown 26 500
    24 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 29 26 450
    22 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 30 30 23 390
    X I'll Cut Your Tail Off - John Leyton 24 350
    X It's Too Late Now - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30 28 250
    B Walkin' Tall - Adam Faith 29 200
    29 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 29 60
    X Just Like Me - The Hollies 30 50
    X It's Been Nice - The Everly Brothers 30 30
    26 The Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    This could have been one of the weeks that Derek Chinnery's daughter (a school child) added up the numbers for the BBC chart, per what Dave Taylor told some of us...
    That's entirely possible. If it was the case the figures were obviously never checked because those errors stand out a mile

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    This could have been one of the weeks that Derek Chinnery's daughter (a school child) added up the numbers for the BBC chart, per what Dave Taylor told some of us...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    The top 14 of the POTP chart for 29/06/63 are largely (though not entirely due to joint positions) correct if the NME chart for the previous week is used and the current RR chart is ignored. The top 8 (including a joint number 7) definitely tally. The joint number 9 doesn't match (Falling is at number 10), 11 and 12 tally, there would be a joint number 13 (Forget Him and In Dreams) but after that there are a number of differences.
    It looks like the BBC messed up then for week of 29th June then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The top 14 of the POTP chart for 29/06/63 are largely (though not entirely due to joint positions) correct if the NME chart for the previous week is used and the current RR chart is ignored. The top 8 (including a joint number 7) definitely tally. The joint number 9 doesn't match (Falling is at number 10), 11 and 12 tally, there would be a joint number 13 (Forget Him and In Dreams) but after that there are a number of differences.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah in the Top 10 alone, 2, 3, =7, =9, are all wrong. Even discounting RR which was the one that was late at times the points still don't tally to the BBC listing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    2 & 3 wrong way round in BBC whichever contributory chart you take out. There is no recording or listing of this or next week's POTP, so it has to be queried whether they did actually make such an obvious mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Something very wrong at the BBC this week their points don't correlate with their chart positions.

    In comes Twist and Shout from The Isley Brothers, but their will be two bigger versions charting soon.
    If you took out Disc would the BBC points match this week? Thats all I can think thats happened - they removed a chart that they didn’t have in time.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Something very wrong at the BBC this week their points don't correlate with their chart positions.

    In comes Twist and Shout from The Isley Brothers, but their will be two bigger versions charting soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 29th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 29th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    6 2 Atlantis - The Shadows 3 2 2 3 2 9520
    2 3 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 2 3 3 2 3 9290
    5 4 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 4 4 4 4 5 8880
    3 5 From Me To You - The Beatles 5 6 5 6 4 8460
    4 6 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 6 7 7 5 7 8020
    8 7 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 7= 5 8 7 8 7940
    7 8 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 7= 8 6 9 10 7780
    10 9 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 9= 11 9 8 6 7200
    12 10 Falling - Roy Orbison 9= 9 10 10 9 7060
    15 11 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 13 15 11 11 14 6110
    11 12 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 11 14 12 12 12 6070
    9 13 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 12 15 13 15 11 5700
    13 14 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 14 18 14 14 13 5240
    25 15 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 17= 17 16 17 15 4830
    22 16 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 21 12 19 18 17 4770
    20 17 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 20 13 18 16 24 4710
    18 18 The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 16 19 15 19 18 4590
    NEW 19 Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield 17= 10 22 13 23 4590
    14 20 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 15 22 17 20 16 4000
    17 21 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 19 21 20 22 19 3460
    16 22 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 24 23 24 25 20 2480
    NEW 23 Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 22 20 28 21 22 2320
    21 24 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 23 30 21 21 1900
    NEW 25 Rondo - Kenny Ball 25= 25 27 28 28 1440
    24 26 The Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 29= 23 1200
    19 27 Pipeline - The Chantays 27= 29 25 29 1200
    29 28 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 25= 23 29 30 1130
    26 29 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 26 26 1000
    NEW 30 Twist And Shout - The Isley Brothers 29= 27 27 600
    X Just Like Me - The Hollies 27= 23 25 580
    X Swing That Hammer - Mike Cotton's Jazzmen 26 500
    B Nature's Time For Love - Joe Brown 24 350
    B Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto 28 300
    X It's Been Nice - the Everly Brothers 30 26 300
    23 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 27 120
    27 Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 29 60
    X Ain't That A Shame - The Four Seasons 30 50
    28 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller
    30 Losing You - Brenda Lee
    * The BBC chart is way out this week. Points don't correlate with chart positions.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 22nd 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 22nd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    5 2 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 2 2 2 2 3 9540
    3 3 From Me To You - The Beatles 3 5 3 3 2 9070
    2 4 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 4 6 4 4 4 8710
    4 5 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 5 4 5 5 6 8650
    8 6 Atlantis - The Shadows 6 3 6 6 9 8460
    6 7 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 7 7 7 8 5 7930
    9 8 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 8 8 8 7 8 7640
    7 9 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 9 11 9 9 7 7120
    14 10 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 10 10 11 10 13 6690
    10 11 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 11 13 10 11 10 6580
    13 12 Falling - Roy Orbison 12 9 12 13 12 6520
    11 13 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 13 12 13 12 11 6150
    12 14 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 14 17 14 15 15 5230
    18 15 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 15 18 15 14 16 5000
    15 16 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 16 15 18 19 17 4570
    16 17 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 17 21 16 18 14 4410
    20 18 The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 18 19 19 16 22 4020
    17 19 Pipeline - The Chantays 19 23 17 21 25 3580
    25 20 It's My Party - Lesley Gore 21= 16 27 17 2800
    19 21 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 20 28 20 26 18 2590
    NEW 22 Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals 23 14 20 2250
    22 23 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 21= 21 24 19 2210
    21 24 Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 24 28 22 27 20 2180
    NEW 25 Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves 25 19 28 25 26 2100
    27 26 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 27 24 23 28 1990
    28 27 Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 26 26 25 23 1640
    23 28 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 28 24 21 1350
    NEW 29 Hey Mama - Frankie Vaughan 30= 22 29 1000
    24 30 Losing You - Brenda Lee 29 26 24 960
    B Rondo - Kenny Ball 25 28 750
    X Ain't That A Shame - The Four Seasons 30= 28 23 700
    X Indian Love Call - Karl Denver 26 30 550
    26 It's Been Nice - The Everly Brothers 28 30 450
    B Bobby Tomorrow - Bobby Vee 22 450
    X Just Like Me - The Hollies 29 27 420
    29 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 29 60
    30 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Interesting that From Me To You was such a monster hit in the UK, but here in the States it didn't do much of anything. As Beatlemania was raging in early 1964, 17 charted sides across 6 labels in the first 4 months, 5 of which made #1, FMTY only eked out a #41 showing. Granted it was the b-side of Please Please Me here, which got up to #3, so buyers of that record got both songs, but DJs were opting to play the many other Beatle records instead.

    I don't even remember hearing FMTY on the radio. In fact, I didn't even know it existed until The Beatles Red Album 1962-66 was released in 1973. Capitol records had never released it on an LP even after they secured the rights back from Vee-Jay. Same thing with Misery and There's A Place, I didn't know they existed till the mid-70s, Capitol didn't release them on an LP until the US Rarities disc in 1980.

    Far out...
    The reason that early Beatles records were not doing so well, is down to Capitol Records. Even though it was owned by EMI, they were given control over what records were released in the USA. So much so they were simply catering to what was the taste and would be popular to American audiences only. Though they don't sound it these days the early Beatles songs were too suggestive sex wise and the USA was not really open to these kinds of songs. Capitol Records wouldn't put them out. So George Martin agreed to allow the smaller labels to put them out instead. So at least they would get some exposure. It wasn't until the Beatles came up with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand". Which wasn't considered to sexual, that Capitol agreed to issue the record. Resulting in the first number one in the USA.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    But Manchester strikes back with Freddie and The Dreamers and The Hollies (pity they didn't make the Top 20 with their debut).

    Strange that FMTY is still no. 1 in RR (7 weeks in total).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    For the second time in a row Gerry comes from outside the top five to take #1, this time snatching it from the hands of The Beatles but at least Billy J gets a consolation prize successfully defending #2 forcing The Beatles down to #3. Liverpool is in dominating form holding all top three chart positions.

    One of my all time favs debuts this week, pop music at it's infectious and endearing best, Lesley Gore's anthemic It's My Party. Wonderful pop record .

    Leave a comment:

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