The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

Yes the sign that Beatlemania had not yet taken hold is that it didn't enter at number one.

I don't know when the master tapes disappeared. They couldn't find them when they wanted to make a stereo version of She Loves You for the 1966 Oldies LP, and it appears the tapes were already lost when they recorded the German version because they had to redo the backing as well as the vocals - whereas on I Want To Hold Your Hand they only needed to overdub the vocals.

[Graham76man]

I would put that down to crap charts not that Beatlemania had not taken off.

[Graham76man]

Not everyone liked the Beatles!
Mod mag - Hate beatles.JPG

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 7th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 7th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
7	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	3	9840
1	2	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					2	2	2	2	1	9600
2	3	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					3	3	3	3	2	9270
5	4	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					4	4	4	4	4	8910
4	5	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					5	5	5	5	5	8580
3	6	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					6	8	6	10	6	7850
10	7	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					8	10	7	6	11	7550
9	8	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					7	6	10	9	7	7470
8	9	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					9	11	8	8	8	7290
13	10	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					10	7	12	7	10	7080
6	11	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					12	13	9	11		6700
14	12	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					11	8	13	12	9	6610
11	13	In Summer - Billy Fury					13	12	11	13	13	6340
12	14	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					14	15	14	15	12	5520
18	15	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					15	14	15	14	14	5460
15	16	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					16	21	16	17	15	4430
22	17	Still - Karl Denver					17	17	20	16	17	4220
16	18	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					19	30	17	21	19	3060
26	19	Come On - The Rolling Stones					21	22	22	20	24	3010
17	20	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					18		18	19	16	3000
19	21	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					20	27	19	24	18	2940
30	22	I Wanna Stay Here - Mike and Griff					22	16	27	28	23	2490
21	23	Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves					23		21	22	21	2250
20	24	Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley					25	28	23		20	1830
28	25	Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells					24		25	18	22	1820
NEW	26	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					26	19		23		1600
NEW	27	Whispering - The Bachelors					28	18		30	29	1410
25	28	Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon					29	22	29	27		1400
29	29	Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball					30=	29	24		27	1370
NEW	30	Surf City - Jan and Dean					27	25	30	26	26	1150
B		Still - Ken Dodd					30=	20				1100
23		You Can Never Stop Me Loving You - Kenny Lynch							26		28	840
X		Frankie And Johnny - Sam Cooke						24		29		800
B		Wishing - Buddy Holly					30=	26		25		800
24		Atlantis - The Shadows							28		25	630
		By The Way - The Big Three									30	30
27		I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers

[MrTibbs]

In one step The Beatles capture #1. Only RR, surprise surprise, denies them that accolade.

Jet Harris and Tony Meehan enter with Applejack, a third brilliant and much loved record by me, then will vanish into oblivion. I believe they split up which is a great pity as their three '63 hits were all masterpieces to my mind.

[Robbie]

According to wikiepdia Jet Harris was involved in a car crash in September 1963 which ended the partnership. It seems Harris was unable to play guitar for some time afterwards.

[MrTibbs]

According to wikiepdia Jet Harris was involved in a car crash in September 1963 which ended the partnership. It seems Harris was unable to play guitar for some time afterwards.

Ahhh ! That explains it thanks Robbie. A tragedy in more ways than one than.

[Splodj]

The BBC were lucky they could have 'She Loves You' as their their outright number one - just - because RR had placed it no lower than 3. This is when they should have started to think about an RR-compensating mechanism for number one in readiness for the next Beatles release.

Jet Harris's girlfriend, who was also injured in the crash, was Billie Davis. She had been the female foil in Mike Sarne's 'Will I What'. then charted earlier this year in her own right with 'Tell Him'.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 14th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 14th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					2	2	2	2	3	9540
4	3	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					3	3	3	3	2	9270
3	4	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					4	4	4	5	5	8830
5	5	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					5	6	5	4	4	8560
10	6	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					6	5	6	6	7	8320
8	7	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					7	7	7	7	6	7950
9	8	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					8	10	8	8	8	7390
12	9	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					9	8	10	10	9	7160
7	10	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					10	11	11	9	10	6730
6	11	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					11	12	9	16	12	6520
15	12	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					12	13	14	12	11	5900
11	13	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					14	15	12	13		5881
26	14	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					13	9	17	11	16	5750
17	15	Still - Karl Denver					15	14	16	17	13	5190
13	16	In Summer - Billy Fury					16	20	13	14	14	5160
14	17	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					18	21	15	18	15	4530
NEW	18	Wishing - Buddy Holly					17	17	19	15	18	4390
16	19	Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					20	26	20	23	17	2970
27	20	Whispering - The Bachelors					19	16	28	19	21	2850
21	21	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					25	28	18	27	19	2810
22	22	I Wanna Stay Here - Miki and Griff					21	17	24	29	24	2760
19	23	Come On - The Rolling Stones					23	27	21	26	22	2420
30	24	Surf City - Jan and Dean					22	24	26	21	26	2100
NEW	25	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					24	19		20		1750
18	26	Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto					30		22		25	1530
20	27	Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals					26=		23		20	1530
28	28	Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon					28	25	27	28	27	1470
NEW	29	Still - Ken Dodd					29	22		24		1250
NEW	30	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez						23		25		1100
29		Acapulco 1922 - Kenny Ball							25		28	990
25		Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells					26=		29	22	23	990
23		Welcome To My World - Jim Reeves							30		29	210
X		Frankie And Johnny - Sam Cooke						29				200
X		The Good Life - Tony Bennett						29				200
X		No One - Ray Charles						29				200
B		Hello Muddah Hello Fadduh - Allan Sherman								30		50
24		Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley									30	30

[brian05]

Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes

What positions were they at in MM and RR this week?

[kingofskiffle]

Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes

What positions were they at in MM and RR this week?

Inn MM it was 31 and RR 33

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 21st 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 21st 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
3	2	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					2	2	2	2	2	9570
2	3	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					3	4	3	3	3	9140
6	4	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					4	3	4	5	4	8960
5	5	I'LL Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					5	5	5	4	5	8630
4	6	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					6	6	6	6	6	8250
7	7	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					7	8	7	9	7	7720
9	8	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					8	9	8	10	8	7390
14	9	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					9	9	10	8	9	7160
8	10	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					11	14	9	12	10	6580
25	11	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					10	7	17	7	12	6270
10	12	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					12	14	12	11	11	6150
13	13	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					15	19	11	15		5480
12	14	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					14	17	13	16	14	5360
15	15	Still - Karl Denver					16	12	16	18	15	5280
18	16	Wishing - Buddy Holly					13	18	15	13	13	5140
30	17	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					17	13	21	19	16	4350
11	18	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					19	23	14	20	17	4320
NEW	19	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					18	11	27	14	22	3720
16	20	In Summer - Billy Fury					20	24	18	25	19	3310
20	21	Whispering - The Bachelors					21	22	23	24	18	2840
17	22	Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield					22	25	19	29	20	2830
NEW	23	Shindig - The Shadows					24	16		17		2200
22	24	I Wanna Stay Here - Miki and Griff					23	20	26		24	2060
24	25	Surf City - Jan and Dean					28		20	27	29	1910
23	26	Come On - The Rolling Stones					24		22		21	1650
NEW	27	Hello Muddah Hello Fadduh - Allan Sherman					26	25	28	23	28	1540
29	28	Still - Ken Dodd					26	21		21		1500
NEW	29	Searchin' - The Hollies					29=	27	25		26	1450
21	30	The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas					29=		24		27	1170
B		Mean Woman Blues / Blue Bayou - Roy Orbison					29=	29		22		650
28		Two Silhouettes - Del Shannon							29		23	540
		Only The Heartaches - Houston Wells						30	30	28		400
B		Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost						30		26		350
X		Frankie And Johnny - Sam Cooke						28			30	330
19		Twist And Shout - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes									25	180
X		Hello Heartache Goodbye Love - Little Peggy March								30		50
26		Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto
27		Da Doo Ron Ron - The Crystals

[Splodj]

Pore ole Cliff!

About this time I heard the Hammer song on the radio. On a family visit to a large store (Hides in Bexleyheath) I broke away to the record department. They asked: "Which version would you like - Trini Lopez or Peter Paul and Mary?" I sat down on a sofa and listened to both before choosing the latter. Afterwards I discovered it had been released the previous year and wondered if they were just offloading old stock on a naive kid.

[MrTibbs]

Pore ole Cliff!

About this time I heard the Hammer song on the radio. On a family visit to a large store (Hides in Bexleyheath) I broke away to the record department. They asked: "Which version would you like - Trini Lopez or Peter Paul and Mary?" I sat down on a sofa and listened to both before choosing the latter. Afterwards I discovered it had been released the previous year and wondered if they were just offloading old stock on a naive kid.

If I remember correctly there was probably renewed interest in the Peter Paul and Mary version. I can remember my father buying a new EP of theirs around the above time when they were also about to have a hit single with Blowing In The Wind. The EP as I remember had Blowing In The Wind, Lemon Tree, Where Have All The Flowers Gone, and also If I Had A Hammer.

For me at the time (although I appreciate it now) I found the PPM version boring and much preferred the Trini version.

[membranemusic]

Hello Mr Tibbs
I would just like to say thanks for the Top Pops-Music Now charts: many gaps now filled! Much appreciated by many.

[MrTibbs]

Hello Mr Tibbs
I would just like to say thanks for the Top Pops-Music Now charts: many gaps now filled! Much appreciated by many.

The ones I posted were a best worked estimate based on what I have just now and I believe took them a step further with some patience and adjustment. After further discussion with Robin and Kjell who had some better copies with readable last week positions and information shared about skipped weeks I will revisit the Top Pops jigsaw when I get a chance soon and incorporate this new info as this indicates I have to still move some dates around. This should finally give us an accurate run of these charts. Once completed I will of course Dropbox them and tell you guys in order that you can access these.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 28th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 28th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					2	3	2	3	2	9420
4	3	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					3	5	3	4	3	8990
11	4	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					4	2	5	2	7	8970
9	5	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					5	6	6	7	4	8260
3	6	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					7	8	4	6	11	8200
19	7	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					6	4	9	5	9	7960
8	8	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					8	9	7	11	5	7580
5	9	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					9	11	8	8	6	7350
17	10	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					10	7	13	9	8	6890
16	11	Wishing - Buddy Holly					11	12	10	13	10	6580
7	12	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					13	14	11	15	12	6070
23	13	Shindig - The Shadows					12	10	15	10	15	6030
6	14	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					14	15	12	14	14	5810
NEW	15	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					15	13	19	12	17	4970
10	16	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					16	28	14	18	13	4040
14	17	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					17	25	16	17	16	4000
15	18	Still - Karl Denver					18	19	18	22	18	3990
12	19	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					19	22	17	19	19	3960
27	20	Hello Muddah Hello Fadduh - Allan Sherman					21	21	21	20	23	3290
NEW	21	Ain't Gonna Kiss Ya (EP) - The Searchers					20	16	27	16		3192
21	22	Whispering - The Bachelors					22	20	24	25	21	2750
29	23	Searchin' - The Hollies					23=	26	23	26	20	2280
NEW	24	Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost					23=	22	26	21	27	2270
13	25	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					25		20	24		2000
NEW	26	The First Time - Adam Faith					26	18		28	25	1630
18	27	Sweets For My Sweet - The Searchers					28=		22		24	1560
28	28	Still - Ken Dodd					28=	24		23		1100
20	29	In Summer - Billy Fury							25		26	1050
26	30	Come On - The Rolling Stones					30		28		22	720
		Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison						17
B		Everybody - Tommy Roe					27	27		27		600
22		Confessin' (That I Love You) - Frank Ifield						29	29		28	590
25		Surf City - Jan and Dean							30		30	180
B		Do You Love Me - The Dave Clark Five						30				100
B		The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles								29		100
X		Hello Heartache Goodbye Love - Little Peggy March									29	60
B		Somebody Else's Girl - Billy Fury								30		50
24		I Wanna Stay Here - Miki and Griff
30		The Cruel Sea - The Dakotas

[MrTibbs]

Brian Poole was beaten in chart performance by The Beatles version of Twist And Shout but he's out for revenge as Do You Love Me soars to #4 with an eye on the chart summit. Dave Clark's version won't trouble him.

The Fourmost debut with Lennon/McCartney's Hello Little Girl and what a superb version it is

[Splodj]

Amazing to think that by this time they had in the can 'It Won't Be Long', ' Money' and 'All My Loving' - any one of which surely would have stormed the charts.

[MrTibbs]

Good news guys

I have today re-checked all the charts and dates I posted in my Dropbox for Top Pops and I'm happy to confirm they do all check out accurately as they are. My initial work and re-dating proved to be correct. Robin kindly ran a check alongside mine and his too came up with same result. So no changes needed. You have the correct info in the Dropbox for these so enjoy.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 5th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 5th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1=	2	1	2	1	9750
4	2	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					1=	1	2	1	2	9720
7	3	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					3	3	3	3	3	9240
10	4	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					4	4	5	5	5	8680
3	5	I Want To Stay Here - Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme					5=	5	6	7	6	8300
2	6	It's All In The Game - Cliff Richard					5=	10	4	6	4	8210
15	7	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					7	7	9	4	9	7710
5	8	Applejack - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					10	8	7	9	11	7600
8	9	Just Like Eddie - Heinz					8	9	8	8	7	7520
13	10	Shindig - The Shadows					9	6	10	10	8	7390
6	11	Bad To Me - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					12	13	11	13	15	6180
26	12	The First Time - Adam Faith					11	11	15	11	13	5940
9	13	I'll Never Get Over You - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					13	15	12	15	10	5880
11	14	Wishing - Buddy Holly					14	15	13	14	12	5720
21	15	Ain't Gonna Kiss Ya (EP) - The Searchers					18	12	20	12		4992
12	16	You Don't Have To Be A Baby To Cry - The Caravelles					15	21	14	18	16	4650
20	17	Hello Muddah Hello Fadduh - Allan Sherman					16=	18	17	16	20	4480
23	18	Searchin' - The Hollies					16=	19	16	19	17	4470
24	19	Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost					19	20	22	17	18	3540
18	20	Still - Karl Denver					20	27	18	22	14	3310
NEW	21	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					22	17	25	23	27	2820
17	22	Dance On - Kathy Kirby					21	28	21	21	21	2600
NEW	23	Everybody - Tommy Roe					23	22	26	20	25	2380
14	24	I'm Telling You Now - Freddie and The Dreamers					24		19	28	19	2310
22	25	Whispering - The Bachelors					25	22	27		23	1740
19	26	Theme From 'The Legion's Last Patrol' - Ken Thorne					27		23	30	24	1460
16	27	Wipe Out - The Surfaris					26		24	29	22	1420
28	28	Still - Ken Dodd					29	24		24		1050
NEW	29	Somebody Else's Girl - Billy Fury					28	26	30	25	28	1040
30	30	Come On - The Rolling Stones							28		26	600
		Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison						14
B		Do You Love Me - The Dave Clark Five						25				600
25		Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					30		29	26		550
X		My Boyfriend's Back - The Angels						28				300
B		The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles								27		200
B		Memphis Tennessee - Dave Berry						30			29	160
X		Hello Heartache Goodbye Love - Little Peggy March									30	30
27		Sweets For My Sweet - The Seachers
29		In Summer - Billy Fury

[Splodj]

Replication of what happened on 8th June when NME and Disc had the challenger (Billy J on that occassion) at number one, giving an unweighted tie between the top 2. 2121/1212.

[Robbie]

Good news guys

I have today re-checked all the charts and dates I posted in my Dropbox for Top Pops and I'm happy to confirm they do all check out accurately as they are. My initial work and re-dating proved to be correct. Robin kindly ran a check alongside mine and his too came up with same result. So no changes needed. You have the correct info in the Dropbox for these so enjoy.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

The link doesn't work. I think you may have just copied and pasted the link from your earlier post? Unfortunately UKMix doesn't always display links in a way that can be copied (it sometimes removes part of the URL)

The link is https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

(both links may look the same but if you hover the cursor over both links you will see the difference if your browser displays the full web address, usually at the bottom of the browser))

[MrTibbs]

The link doesn't work. I think you may have just copied and pasted the link from your earlier post? Unfortunately UKMix doesn't always display links in a way that can be copied (it sometimes removes part of the URL)

The link is https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p27jtfask...oVFD5NOpa?dl=0

(both links may look the same but if you hover the cursor over both links you will see the difference if your browser displays the full web address, usually at the bottom of the browser))

Thanks for that Robbie. I didn't notice the difference so thanks for correcting that.

[brian05]

October 5th 1963 - the week I bought my first New Musical Express (NME), and continued my collection until early 1971. Those were exciting times in 1963 and I couldn't wait until I read the news pages to see what The Beatles were up to, and where their records were placed.




Three EPs in above listing. Searchers at 12 in both NME and Disc but 20 in MM. Wonder why this EP was so popular?

[MrTibbs]

The Beatles EP's will soon be charting and the Twist And Shout EP will join them in the chart. She Loves You manages to hold #1 for another week ..just !