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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Really pleased your going to do 1969.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Robin when in the sixties did you return to the states, and as a matter of interest did you also get into late sixties early seventies American music ?. I have to admit I'm also a sucker for that era of American music.

    Thanks Brian and I'm happy to be able to share not just The Ultimate Chart but also the other charts lined up side by side for you guys to compare and enjoy.

    I'm actually having a ball with the 1969 'fun' averaged charts. They are actually surprisingly consistent and robust, stabilising the yo-yo effect of the BMRB chart and by including the NME and MM getting an overall smoother chart that gives a best of all three result.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Same thing with Misery and There's A Place, I didn't know they existed till the mid-70s, Capitol didn't release them on an LP until the US Rarities disc in 1980.
    There's A Place was the B-side of Twist and Shout which was released on the Tollie label in March 1964. It reached no. 74 in Billboard while the A side was no. 2 in Billboard and no. 1 in Cashbox.

    Misery and There's A Place were both included in the Vee Jay album Introducing the Beatles released in March 1964 in US. I'm surprised you never heard of them till the mid-70s.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    18 Atlantis - The Shadows

    Another large difference - 12 in NME but only 27 in RR.

    I didn't know the BBC had a joint no. 1 this week - you learn something new every day.
    Thanks Mr Tibbs for publishing these charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Interesting that From Me To You was such a monster hit in the UK, but here in the States it didn't do much of anything. As Beatlemania was raging in early 1964, 17 charted sides across 6 labels in the first 4 months, 5 of which made #1, FMTY only eked out a #41 showing. Granted it was the b-side of Please Please Me here, which got up to #3, so buyers of that record got both songs, but DJs were opting to play the many other Beatle records instead.

    I don't even remember hearing FMTY on the radio. In fact, I didn't even know it existed until The Beatles Red Album 1962-66 was released in 1973. Capitol records had never released it on an LP even after they secured the rights back from Vee-Jay. Same thing with Misery and There's A Place, I didn't know they existed till the mid-70s, Capitol didn't release them on an LP until the US Rarities disc in 1980.

    Far out...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Ha Ha, The Beatles and Billy J. both top 2 of the four charts each but thanks to shop polling the Beatles hang on to #1 on The Ultimate Chart by the smallest of margins. Justice prevails methinks.

    It's an important week for two chart stalwarts who enter this week, The Shadows will have their very last top three hit and Buddy Holly will have his last top ten hit. The times they are a-changin'.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 8th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 8th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1= 2 1 2 1 9750
    2 2 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 1= 1 2 1 2 9720
    3 3 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 3 3 3 4 9210
    8 4 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 4 5 4 5 3 8790
    4 5 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 5 7 5 4 8 8340
    10 6 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 6 6 6 8 5 8180
    16 7 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 7 4 9 6 7 7970
    7 8 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 8 9 7 7 6 7750
    6 9 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 9 8 11 9 11 7000
    5 10 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 10 13 8 10 10 6930
    9 11 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 11 11 10 12 9 6760
    17 12 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 12 10 12 11 12 6520
    11 13 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 13 15 13 14 13 5690
    24 14 Falling - Roy Orbison 14 14 20 15 19 4510
    19 15 Pipeline - The Chantays 16 21 15 18 16 4500
    15 16 Losing You - Brenda Lee 15 17 18 16 18 4490
    12 17 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 17 23 16 17 15 4230
    NEW 18 Atlantis - The Shadows 18 12 23 13 27 4120
    13 19 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 19 22 14 14 3960
    14 20 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 20 28 17 19 17 3420
    22 21 Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 22 18 22 24 23 3240
    23 22 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 21 19 24 20 21 3100
    18 23 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 23= 27 19 21 20 3030
    NEW 24 The Ice Cream man - The Tornados 23= 16 27 23 2500
    21 25 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 25= 21 27 28 1790
    27 26 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 29 20 28 1250
    20 27 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 27= 25 22 1170
    30 28 Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 25= 26 30 26 25 1080
    NEW 29 Bo Diddley - Buddy Holly 27= 25 22 1050
    RE 30 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 30 26 29 910
    25 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 30 28 30 24 710
    X Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka 24 700
    My Way - Eddie Cochran 29 26 450
    B It's Been Nice - The Everly Brothers 25 300
    X Out Of My Mind - Johnny Tillotson 29 200
    X Foolish Little Girl - The Shirelles 29 100
    28 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 30 30
    26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades
    29 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Billy J's 'Secret' is another of those "Should it be in the roster of bone fide number ones?" cases. The next Ultimate will be informative on this question.

    I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth 50!
    Splodj ! A crime like that is still punishable by hanging

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth 50!
    Never throw away Fireball XL5 stuff!!!! Stuff is only worth what people will pay for it, but the Gerry Anderson stuff in general has a high value as not many where sold at the time/survive today (relatively speaking).

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Billy J's 'Secret' is another of those "Should it be in the roster of bone fide number ones?" cases. The next Ultimate will be informative on this question.

    I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth 50!

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    duplicate
    Last edited by Splodj; Thu April 29, 2021, 10:45.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Liverpool piles on the pressure, The Beatles hold #1, Billy J, closes in at #2, Billy F, takes #8, and just as Gerry's How leaves the top ten his I Like crashes in at #16. We are moving inexorably towards that really interesting period when 1963 really catches fire

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 1st 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 1st 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    4 2 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 2 1 2 2 2 9670
    2 3 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 3 3 4 3 9190
    5 4 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 4 4 5 3 4 8810
    3 5 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 5 7 4 7 5 8430
    7 6 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 6 5 6 5 8 8340
    6 7 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 7 8 7 6 6 7900
    14 8 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 8 6 8 8 7 7820
    13 9 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 9 11 9 9 10 7030
    17 10 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 11 9 13 10 14 6460
    12 11 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 10 12 12 11 9 6410
    8 12 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 13 13 10 14 13 6340
    9 13 Nobody's Darlin But Mine - Frank Ifield 12 14 11 13 11 6200
    10 14 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 14 17 14 15 15 5230
    11 15 Losing You - Brenda Lee 15 18 15 16 12 5020
    NEW 16 I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 16 9 21 12 22 4920
    20 17 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 17 15 17 17 16 4850
    15 18 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 18 22 16 18 17 4220
    19 19 Pipeline - The Chantays 19 21 19 19 19 3760
    16 20 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 20 28 18 23 18 3040
    21 21 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 24= 20 26 23 2140
    NEW 22 Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 21 23 26 27 20 2080
    26 23 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 26 19 29 21 29 2060
    NEW 24 Falling - Roy Orbison 22 16 20 2050
    18 25 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 23 29 22 29 21 1950
    23 26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 27= 23 24 1410
    30 27 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 24= 20 28 1250
    24 28 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 29= 24 26 1200
    22 29 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 29= 25 30 25 1130
    NEW 30 Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 27= 25 25 28 990
    25 My Way - Eddie Cochran 27 27 720
    X Out Of My Mind - Johnny Tillotson 24 700
    X Shy Girl - The Cascades 29= 25 600
    27 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 30 28 550
    B The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados 22 450
    X Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka 27 400
    X Just Like Me - The Hollies 24 350
    28 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 30 30 180
    29 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Hummmm. Yeah, you have a point.... A well. If you do want to get rid of anything else though do let me know.

  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

    Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands
    It would have cost you a fortune in postage fees, they weighed quite a bit!

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?
    On purpose. They were cluttering up my house and I'd been meaning to get rid of them for many years.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

    I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.
    Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

    I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    If you look at the calender for 1960 you will see that the NME Charts are following the Friday day. The RR first issue comes on the 10 March a Thursday. So the sales could not have come from that week. So they had to be 5 March sales end week switched to Saturday not Friday. So the Guiness people were right not to use the 4 March NME.
    However they are not consistent as is the OCC with it's chart dates and the often use the publication date of RR as the week ending date later on.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 25th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 25th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 From Me To You - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    2 2 Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 2 2 2 5 2 9420
    3 3 Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams 4 5 3 4 5 8930
    9 4 Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas 3 3 6 2 3 8840
    6 5 Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard 5 4 7 3 4 8510
    7 6 Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon 6 6 5 6 6 8400
    5 7 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 7 7 4 7 7 8370
    4 8 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 8 8 8 9 8 7540
    8 9 Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield 9 9 9 8 11 7250
    10 10 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 10 12 10 12 12 6570
    11 11 Losing You - Brenda Lee 12 15 11 15 10 6030
    15 12 Young Lovers - Paul and Paula 11 14 14 11 9 5910
    17 13 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 14 13 13 14 13 5890
    24 14 When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury 13 11 16 10 15 5780
    13 15 He's So Fine - The Chiffons 15 16 12 16 16 5550
    12 16 Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields 16 20 15 17 14 4710
    30 17 Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles 17 10 24 13 21 4350
    14 18 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 18= 21 17 20 18 4040
    21 19 Pipeline - The Chantays 18= 17 21 18 20 3880
    26 20 If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers 20 18 23 19 23 3340
    19 21 Casablanca - Kenny Ball 22 23 19 21 24 3310
    18 22 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 21 25 20 22 19 3060
    16 23 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 23 18 24 17 2720
    20 24 Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons 24 22 25 22 1920
    25 25 My Way - Eddie Cochran 25 26 25 26 25 1830
    NEW 26 Forget Him - Bobby Rydell 26 19 23 1600
    28 27 Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath 27 22 30 30 1100
    23 28 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 28 26 26 900
    27 29 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 29= 27 27 720
    NEW 30 Shy Girl - Mark Wynter 24 700
    B Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill 29= 30 29 27 30 630
    22 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 28 28 540
    X Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka 27 400
    X Shy Girl - The Cascades 28 300
    B Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke 28 29 210
    X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 29 200
    X She's New To You - Susan Maughan 29 100
    29 The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Whatever their theory was it ended up a mess obviously. I always thought I was the only one that didn't get their reasoning around dates when to me it was obvious a chart was missing. I see from above you guys had the same problem.

    As 'Oliver Hardy' would have said 'That's another fine mess Guinness got us into'

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    "The final NME chart used is that of 26 Feb 1960, as the chart published in RR on 10 Mar 1960 was dated 5 Mar 1960 and clearly corresponded with the NME chart of 4 Mar 1960."

    They were making the absurd claim that RRs 5-Mar survey date corresponded with NMEs 4-Mar publication date.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    I always assumed a deliberate decision was taken not to have a gap of less than a full week between the two charts used....

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Can’t remember where I read it, but I remember I was sore about it. They skipped the NME chart that followed 60 Feb 26 and gave two reasons. One was that the NME chart was a Friday chart while RR was published Thursdays. The other was that the gap between chart date and publication date consisted of more days in the latter such nearing the gap between the two publications chart dates to less than 6 days.

    Leave a comment:

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