The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[brian05]

A picture from Top of the Pops with Jimmy Saville, showing the charts behind him.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah that's the Top twenty Board I remember so well. How I scrutinised that every week .

Jimmy Savile (makes my skin crawl just typing it) 'played' the records himself. Alan, David and Pete had Denise and later Samantha Juste (who later married Micky Dolenz) 'play' the records for them.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 16th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 16th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers					1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	She Loves You - The Beatles					2=	2	2	3	3	9490
3	3	Sugar And Spice - The Searchers					2=	3	3	2	2	9320
6	4	Be My Baby - The Ronettes					4	4	4	4	5	8880
16	5	Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard					5	5	5	5	7	8520
7	6	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					6	7	6	7	9	8010
5	7	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					7	9	7	9	4	7710
8	8	Memphis Tennessee / Let It Rock - Chuck Berry					8	10	8	10	6	7350
4	9	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					9	11	9	6	8	7240
22	10	I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					10	8	10	11	11	7050
20	11	Secret Love - Kathy Kirby					11	6	15	8	12	6620
9	12	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					12	15	12	12	10	6030
10	13	The First Time - Adam Faith					13	17	11	14	14	5760
13	14	Fools Rush In - Rick Nelson					14	14	16	13	15	5330
17	15	Blowing In The Wind - Peter Paul and Mary					17	16	13	18	17	5270
11	16	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					15	17	14	16	13	5240
23	17	Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras					16	12	20	15	16	4800
30	18	You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers					18	13	19	17	22	4570
14	19	Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost					19	22	18	19	20	3780
12	20	Bossa Nova Baby - Elvis Presley					20	25	17	20	18	3640
15	21	Miss You - Jimmy Young					21	28	21	24	19	2510
19	22	Sue's Gotta Be Mine - Del Shannon					22=	30	22	22	21	2200
NEW	23	Busted - Ray Charles					22=	20	28	23	24	2160
18	24	Everybody - Tommy Roe					24	28	23	27	23	1940
NEW	25	The Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles					27	27	27	21		1680
NEW	26	It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter					26	19		26		1450
NEW	27	I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones					28	21		28		1150
NEW	28	From Russia With Love - Matt Monro						23		25		1100
27	29	The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles					25		24			1050
21	30	Shindig - The Shadows					30		26	30	27	920
B		Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles							25			900
24		Memphis Tennessee - Dave Berry					29	26	30		25	830
		Your Momma's Out Of Town - Carter Lewis						24				700
28		Still - Karl Denver							29			300
25		Searchin' - The Hollies									26	150
X		The Girl Sang The Blues - The Everly Brothers								29	30	130
X		Sweet Impossible You - Brenda Lee									28	90
26		Hello Muddah Hello Fadduh - Allan Sherman									29	60
29		Ain't Gonna Kiss Ya (EP) - The Searchers
		* On all BBC transcript sheets #27 is missing. This would have been The Beatles No 1 (EP)

[MrTibbs]

The Beatles are poised and will return to the top next week. They also have 2 ep's on the chart and a third waiting in the wings ready to re-enter next week. A remarkable feat by any standard.

Cliff takes a big jump but will have to be content with #2. Billy J. won't make the top three this time around.

The remarkable thing back in this era amidst an onslaught of young pop culture was how music still catered for all tastes reflected in the charts. Beatlemania is now in full flow yet the likes of Matt Monroe, Jimmy Young, Los Indios Tabajaras currently flourish too in the present climate. This will continue as the older record buying public too continue to have their say albeit diminishing decade by decade.

The singles market today, although it is not really a singles market anymore it's actually a 'songs' market, no longer reflects this musical diversity.

When last did you hear someone whistle a popular song from the chart which was common back in the sixties too, but then I'm a child of the sixties.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I advocate for having several extra pop charts based on the artist's age. Say 29 and under, 30 to 39, 40 to 49, 50 to 59, 60 and above. That way they all get more publicity, their fans are more aware of their records, more sales for record companies, win win for everyone.

[brian05]

Not all artists would like to reveal their age.

[kingofskiffle]

Not to mention some are not entirely honest about their age if they do reveal it!

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

In the info age of today, no one would be able to keep their age a secret. Documents everywhere, plus friends of artists growing up would blab to the media. But who would turn down the publicity, the chance at a sub-chart #1 record, and all the extra £ or $ that go with it? This would work very well, for artists, fans, record companies, and media. More money for everyone...

[Graham76man]

In the info age of today, no one would be able to keep their age a secret. Documents everywhere, plus friends of artists growing up would blab to the media. But who would turn down the publicity, the chance at a sub-chart #1 record, and all the extra £ or $ that go with it? This would work very well, for artists, fans, record companies, and media. More money for everyone...

You would think that, but I think the reverse is becoming true. There's a new rule now on YouTube that you have to ask a person to use their face, even if you are not filming them directly. And Google are removing documents that have personal information. While at the same time there's an app that changes a still photo of a person to a moving face and can make them sing or say something.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 23rd 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 23rd 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1=	1	1	2	2	9820
1	2	You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers					1=	2	2	1	1	9650
5	3	Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard					3	3	3	4	5	9130
3	4	Sugar And Spice - The Searchers					4	5	5	3	3	8740
10	5	I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					5	4	4	6	9	8660
4	6	Be My Baby - The Ronettes					6	8	6	5	4	8160
18	7	You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers					8	7	7	8	11	7750
11	8	Secret Love - Kathy Kirby					7	6	9	7	6	7750
6	9	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					9	10	8	10	8	7290
7	10	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					10	10	10	11	7	6970
8	11	Memphis Tennessee / Let It Rock - Chuck Berry					11	12	11	9	10	6630
17	12	Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras					12	9	12	13	13	6490
15	13	Blowing In The Wind - Peter Paul and Mary					14	14	13	16	17	5570
9	14	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					13	17	14	12	12	5470
26	15	It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter					16	13	16	15	22	5120
14	16	Fools Rush In - Rick Nelson					15	15	17	14	16	5000
12	17	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					17	16	20	17	14	4360
16	18	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					18	19	21	19	15	3780
RE	19	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					21	29	15	21		3382
13	20	The First Time - Adam Faith					19	27	19	20	19	3110
25	21	The Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles					20	24	22	18		2991
29	22	The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles					24	30	18	23		2672
21	23	Miss You - Jimmy Young					22	25	24	24	18	2390
23	24	Busted - Ray Charles					23	26	25	22	21	2150
NEW	25	Deep Purple - Nino Tempo and April Stevens					26	20	26		29	1910
20	26	Bossa Nova Baby - Elvis Presley					25		23		20	1530
NEW	27	I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield					29	17				1400
NEW	28	Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen					27=	20		27		1300
RE	29	Your Momma's Out Of Town - Carter Lewis						20				1100
19	30	Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost					30		27	29	23	940
22		Sue's Gonna Be Mine - Del Shannon					27=		28	26	24	910
27		I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones						23				800
B		Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five						27		25		700
28		From Russia With Love - Matt Monro							29		27	420
24		Everybody - Tommy Roe							30		26	300
		Still - Karl Denver									25	180
B		Country Boy - Heinz								28		150
		Memphis Tennessee - Dave Berry									28	90
B		Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates								30		50
30		Shindig - The Shadows									30	30

[MrTibbs]

The UK's finest female performer of the sixties, Dusty Springfield, debuts as a solo artist this week with one of her all time best records.
It was the second single I bought after Christmas 1963 after The Beatles' I Want To Hold Your Hand.

[Robbie]

The above chart covers 22 November 1963, which is the day when President John F Kennedy was assassinated. One day later, on Saturday 23 November, the first ever episode of Doctor Who was broadcast. Two defining moments for very different reasons.

I once read that The Beatles arrival in the US in February 1964 came at a moment when the nation's youth were looking for something or someone to help bring them out of mourning following JFK's death. It would help explain why Beatlemania was so quick to catch on in the US after their appearance on the Ed Sullivan show despite the fact that up to that point The Beatles had struggled to make any impression in the US.

[brian05]

Beatles EP positions in NME are somewhat behind those in MM.
Anyone got an explanation?

[Graham76man]

The above chart covers 22 November 1963, which is the day when President John F Kennedy was assassinated. One day later, on Saturday 23 November, the first ever episode of Doctor Who was broadcast. Two defining moments for very different reasons.

I once read that The Beatles arrival in the US in February 1964 came at a moment when the nation's youth were looking for something or someone to help bring them out of mourning following JFK's death. It would help explain why Beatlemania was so quick to catch on in the US after their appearance on the Ed Sullivan show despite the fact that up to that point The Beatles had struggled to make any impression in the US.

Actually Robbie the main reason was the Beatles themselves, who refused to go to the USA before they had a number one hit there. Plus Capitol records saying to EMI we are not going to issue that record as it's too sexual. Though owned by EMI in the UK, Capitol was set up to cater for the American market only, they had a great deal of independence from the UK owner. The Beatles themselves were simply exporting the black music of the USA back to them. The black music of the USA was however seen as sexual by the white majority of America and so was sidelined.
Everyone knew how tough it was to make it big in the USA for any English act, but back then you had to tour all over the USA to get yourself noticed there. Every English act that tried it before failed. So that's why they wouldn't follow the traditional route of touring the states.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

The BBC transcript does not list a #26, after #25, it lists numbers 27=, 27=, 28, 29, and 30. Between this and missing numbers a couple of times recently either the transcript wasn't checked after typing or the original BBC chart wasn't checked after compilation.

Brian, I looked at all 4 of my different BBC files that go up to 30 positions (I have another that only goes up to 20), they all show no #26, and all show two at #27. It could be that this is what the BBC calculated and wrote up on their internal chart (positions 21-30 were not broadcast until Aug 1967, thus there will be no audio evidence of what happened here). However, and this is important, none of the 4 files shows a tie at #27 as designated by the = sign. (I don't know where this = sign came from, the BBC or Dave/Trevor.) This leads me to believe it wasn't the = sign that was left off for the #27 positions, rather one of the #27's should have been #26. And if you add up the point totals of each #27 record, they are not equal. Most logical conclusion: 'Money' should be #26, and Dave/Trevor just made a simple typo when they typed up their document. I think...

[MrTibbs]

Brian, I looked at all 4 of my different BBC files that go up to 30 positions (I have another that only goes up to 20), they all show no #26, and all show two at #27. It could be that this is what the BBC calculated and wrote up on their internal chart (positions 21-30 were not broadcast until Aug 1967, thus there will be no audio evidence of what happened here). However, and this is important, none of the 4 files shows a tie at #27 as designated by the = sign. (I don't know where this = sign came from, the BBC or Dave/Trevor.) This leads me to believe it wasn't the = sign that was left off for the #27 positions, rather one of the #27's should have been #26. And if you add up the point totals of each #27 record, they are not equal. Most logical conclusion: 'Money' should be #26, and Dave/Trevor just made a simple typo when they typed up their document. I think...

That makes sense to me too Robin and I came to the same conclusion but didn't amend the BBC chart. I will now as there is consensus on this as the likely outcome.

[MrTibbs]

Brian, I looked at all 4 of my different BBC files that go up to 30 positions (I have another that only goes up to 20), they all show no #26, and all show two at #27. It could be that this is what the BBC calculated and wrote up on their internal chart (positions 21-30 were not broadcast until Aug 1967, thus there will be no audio evidence of what happened here). However, and this is important, none of the 4 files shows a tie at #27 as designated by the = sign. (I don't know where this = sign came from, the BBC or Dave/Trevor.) This leads me to believe it wasn't the = sign that was left off for the #27 positions, rather one of the #27's should have been #26. And if you add up the point totals of each #27 record, they are not equal. Most logical conclusion: 'Money' should be #26, and Dave/Trevor just made a simple typo when they typed up their document. I think...

I came to the same conclusion Robin by totalling points. Most likely it was a typo error by Dave and Trevor on the BBC transcript. As there is consensus on this I will amend the chart and re-post below to reflect the change.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 30th 1963

I have amended the obvious typo error on the BBC chart as mentioned above.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 30th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
3	2	Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard					2	2	2	3	3	9490
2	3	You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers					3	4	3	2	2	9220
7	4	You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers					4=	3	5	5	7	8720
5	5	I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					4=	6	4	6	4	8610
8	6	Secret Love - Kathy Kirby					4=	5	6	4	5	8480
4	7	Sugar And Spice - The Searchers					7	7	7	7	6	7950
6	8	Be My Baby - The Ronettes					8	7	8	8	8	7690
12	9	Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras					9	9	9	10	10	7180
10	10	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					10	13	11	9	9	6560
9	11	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					11	12	10	13	11	6550
15	12	It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter					12	14	12	12	14	6010
11	13	Memphis Tennessee / Let It Rock - Chuck Berry					13	18	13	11	12	5570
19	14	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					15	16	14	17		5213
27	15	I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield					18	10	18	16	25	4980
NEW	16	Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five					16	11	19	15	19	4960
13	17	Blowing In The Wind - Peter Paul and Mary					17	19	17	18	13	4490
14	18	Do You Love Me - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					19	22	20	19	16	3600
16	19	Fools Rush In - Rick Nelson					20	30	16	23	18	3140
22	20	The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles					21		15	20		2950
21	21	The Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles					22	26	21	21		2752
18	22	If I Had A Hammer - Trini Lopez					23		22	24	15	2180
28	23	Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen					26	17	29	22		2150
RE	24	From Russia With Love - Matt Monro					24	27	23		20	1930
25	25	Deep Purple - Nini Tempo and April Stevens					27	27	24		21	1750
17	26	Then He Kissed Me - The Crystals					25	25	28	26	17	1720
NEW	27	Country Boy - Heinz					29	20		28		1250
23	28	Miss You - Jimmy Young					28		25		22	1170
NEW	29	Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					30	23		25		1100
24	30	Busted - Ray Charles						30	26		24	1060
		With The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles					14	15		14		2450
X		I Can Dance - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes						21				1000
20		The First Time - Adam Faith							27		23	840
B		Dominique - The Singing Nun						23				800
B		Stay - The Hollies								27	29	260
B		I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones							30	30	30	230
29		Your Momma's Out Of Town - Carter Lewis						29				200
		Still - Karl Denver									26	150
		Everybody - Tommy Roe									27	120
B		All I Want For Christmas Is A Beatle - Dora Bryan								29		100
26		Bossa Nova Baby - Elvis Presley									28	90
30		Hello Little Girl - The Fourmost

[MrTibbs]

Just 4 more charts to go to complete 1963 thus giving us a run of Ultimate Averaged Charts from January 1960 through to 8th February 1969 as an alternative to the BBC charts, same formula but with store returns factored in providing an extra layer of averaging.

As you will have seen throughout these charts they are not vastly different to the overall BBC calculations but added store returns makes it much more robust and the process has also ironed out BBC errors and omissions along the way.
I'm also sure that listing all the music paper charts side by side has provided further interest for comparison as I don't believe this information can be seen elsewhere. Listing these, the methodology of compilation, and points accumulated for all to see, compare, and review, has provided a chart that is transparent, open, and honest.

So, in four days, as discussed before, The Ultimate Averaged Chart adopts a new project for 'fun'.

How would 15th February 1969 to March 1971 look if the charts continued to be averaged out. How would they look as opposed to the BMRB list, or the continued NME or MM lists who continued to compile charts using their own high levels of sampling until at least March 1971. I have already completed 1969. I adjusted the individual numbers of store sampling from that we previously discussed as it heavily advantaged the MM resulting in the averaged chart being MM dominated. I experimented around this and finally settled on the numbers I used prior to Feb 15th for the previous charts. This worked well as it was still proportionate to what we discussed and continued to favour the two charts closer in agreement rather than the outlier giving a better result.

These averaged charts make for an interesting read and again I have listed all the music paper charts side by side for your interest and comparison.

So I hope in four days time you will enjoy these 'fun' Ultimate Averaged Charts. Your take on these will be interesting and I look forward to these being scrutinised, compared and debated. I have certainly had 'fun' compiling them.

Brian

[Splodj]

BBC errors and omissions along the way.

More BBC errors in that most recent chart which, if my calculations are correct, should read ...

24 Crystals (96 points)
25 Bern Elliot (99 points)
26 Matt Monroe (101 points)

Could be explained by them adding up Matt Monroe's points incorrectly and elevating him two places to 24. Although by coincidence he is also 24 in the Ultimate!

[MrTibbs]

More BBC errors in that most recent chart which, if my calculations are correct, should read ...

24 Crystals (96 points)
25 Bern Elliot (99 points)
26 Matt Monroe (101 points)

Could be explained by them adding up Matt Monroe's points incorrectly and elevating him two places to 24. Although by coincidence he is also 24 in the Ultimate!

The BBC chart has had more errors needing corrected than all other charts added together. It really was cobbled together with little thought given to checking.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 7th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 7th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
NEW	1	I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles					2=	1	1	1	10	9630
1	2	She Loves You - The Beatles					1	2	2	2	1	9600
4	3	You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers					2=	4	3	3	3	9140
2	4	Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard					4	3	5	4	2	8920
6	5	Secret Love - Kathy Kirby					5	4	4	5	5	8830
5	6	I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					6=	7	6	6	6	8150
3	7	You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers					6=	6	8	7	4	7960
9	8	Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras					8	7	7	9	7	7820
16	9	Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five					9	9	9	8	8	7340
15	10	I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield					10	10	10	10	9	6960
8	11	Be My Baby - The Ronettes					12	12	13	13	11	6100
12	12	It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter					13	14	12	12	12	6070
14	13	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					14	15	11	16		5860
7	14	Sugar And Spice - The Searchers					15	16	14	14	13	5440
NEW	15	Dominique - The Singing Nun					19	13	18	19	24	4560
11	16	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					16	21	15	18	15	4530
20	17	The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles					17	19	17	17		4402
10	18	Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison					18	27	16	15	14	3960
23	19	Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen					20	16	20	20	23	3940
RE	20	I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones					21	25	21	21	16	3050
25	21	Deep Purple - Nino Tempo and April Stevens					22	23	22		17	2570
21	22	The Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles					27		19	26		2050
29	23	Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					23	24	27	24	20	1980
13	24	Memphis Tennessee / Let It Rock - Chuck Berry					24=		23	25	18	1890
17	25	Blowing In The Wind - Peter Paul and Mary					24=		24	23	19	1810
NEW	26	Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney					26	18		22		1750
NEW	27	Stay - The Hollies					28=	21	28	28	27	1720
NEW	28	Geronimo - The Shadows					28=	20	29	27	28	1690
24	29	From Russia With Love - Matt Monro					30		26		21	1050
19	30	Fools Rush In - Rick Nelson							25		29	960
		With The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles					11	11		11		3000
27		Country Boy - Heinz						25				600
B		All I Want