The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 22nd 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 22nd 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Living Doll - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	6450
3	2	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					2	2	4	2	5	5985
2	3	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					3	4	2	4	4	5875
4	4	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					5=	3	6	3	6	5735
16	5	Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas					4	6	3	6	2	5720
7	6	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka					5=	5	5	5	3	5710
5	7	A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley					7	7	7	9	7	5070
6	8	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					8	10	9	7	8	4805
9	9	The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan					9	8	8	10	9	4795
8	10	Roulette - Russ Conway					10	9	10	8	10	4680
13	11	Someone - Johnny Mathis					11=	12	13	17	12	3825
15	12	I Know - Perry Como					13=	13	18	13	11	3815
11	13	Personality - Anthony Newley					13=	11	14	14	16	3760
12	14	Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks					11=	14	12	15	13	3740
18	15	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					15	15	11	16	17	3415
23	16	Tallahassie Lassie - Freddy Cannon						19		20	18	2175
19	17	Tallahassie Lassie / Give Give Give - Tommy Steele					19=	18	16		20	2160
14	18	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					16=	16		12		1980
17	19	Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone					18	20	15	18		1970
10	20	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					16=	17		11		1950
25	21	Mona Lisa - Conway Twitty						22	20		19	1780
NEW	22	China Sea - Russ Conway						23			15	1560
22	23	Only Sixteen - Sam Cooke					19=	30	19		14	1515
24	24	Side Saddle - Russ Conway						21				750
21	25	Take A Message To Mary / Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers						29		19		690
NEW	26	The Wonder Of You - Ronnie Hilton						24				525
RE	27	Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent							17			490
20	28	Personality - Lloyd Price						25				450
RE	29	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas						27				300
26	30	Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas						28				225
		Yep - Duane Eddy						26
27		Three Stars - Ruby Wright
28		May You Always - Joan Regan
29		I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley
30		Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly

[Robbie]

There's still quite a lot of uniformity in the various top 10s this week.

I'm surprised to see so many competing versions of songs still being a regular feature of the charts as the 1950s start to draw to a close. Certainly by the time The Beatles appear on the scene in little over three years from the above chart, competing versions had become the exception rather than the norm. But it seems to have happened later than I thought.

[MrTibbs]

Disc yet again very much the outlier with Craig Douglas's Only Sixteen and yet again RM ahead of the pack with a future #1.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 15th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 15th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Living Doll - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	6450
3	2	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					2=	2	3	2	3	6140
2	3	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					2=	3	2	3	2	6115
6	4	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					4	4	4	4	4	5805
4	5	A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley					5	5	5	5	5	5590
5	6	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					6	6	6	6	6	5375
13	7	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka					7	7	7	7	7	5160
7	8	Roulette - Russ Conway					8	8	8	8	8	4945
12	9	The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan					9	9	10	10	9	4650
8	10	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					10	12	11	9	11	4315
9	11	Personality - Anthony Newley					11=	10	12	11	13	4220
10	12	Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks					11=	11	9	12	14	4145
16	13	Someone - Johnny Mathis					13=	13	13	17	15	3570
11	14	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					13=	16	17	13	12	3565
15	15	I Know - Perry Como					16	15	16	16	16	3300
29	16	Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas					15	14	14		10	3130
18	17	Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone					17	18	19	18	18	2760
14	18	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					18	17		15		1770
NEW	19	Tallahassie Lassie / Give Give Give - Tommy Steele						20			17	1665
20	20	Personality - Lloyd Price						26		19	19	1635
17	21	Take A Message To Mary / Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers					19	24		14		1290
NEW	22	Only Sixteen - Sam Cooke						23	18			1055
NEW	23	Tallahassie Lassie - Freddy Cannon						19				900
22	24	Side Saddle - Russ Conway						22				675
NEW	25	Mona Lisa - Conway Twitty									20	660
28	26	Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas					20		15			560
19	27	Three Stars - Ruby Wright								20		495
23	28	May You Always - Joan Regan						25				450
24	29	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley							20			385
30	30	Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly						27				300
21		A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas						28				225
27		Summer Of The 17th Doll - Winifred Atwell						29				150
		Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent						30				75
		Yep - Duane Eddy						21
25		Petite Fleur - Chris Barber
26		A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley

[MrTibbs]

But was there not a bias towards London shops for NME?

I have heard that before too Brian but not quite sure just how factual it is. I've never seen any evidence though.

[brian05]

But was there not a bias towards London shops for NME?

[MrTibbs]

Forgive me as the exact details are probably set out somewhere in this thread or the '60s one, but could the similarities between MM and RR and those between NME and Disc be more due to survey period? I can't recall what these were for the respective papers, apart from RR's which was Monday-to-Saturday, but I seem to remember they did differ. If Disc and NME's survey frame was the same or very similar, as was RR and MM's, then presumably their respective charts might reflect similar positions and movements, albeit there was a yawning chasm between the latter two on sample size.

Yeah Gambo that is a possibility and the other possibility that I have considered is that it may be down to which shops were sampled. If NME and Disc for example sampled the smaller independent shops where the buyers were looking to buy new releases and up and coming hits whilst MM and RR may have sampled the bigger stores where the buyers were buying the existing chart hits.

[braindeadpj]

I believe the survey frame was the same for all the charts according to Alan Smith/Dave McAleer (is that the right names?), as we have discussed this point several times. It might be an overlap of stores - though again they are supposed to be unique...

[Gambo]

What I did notice in the sixties when I entered all the chart positions was that NME and Disc were broadly in agreement and MM and RR also tended to be somewhat similar. It appeared there were two different lines of opinion. Of course NME and Disc used advance orders so that possibly explained their similarity. Oddly MM had the biggest sample and RR had the smallest yet their chart pattern if not positions tended to be similar.

Work that one out

Forgive me as the exact details are probably set out somewhere in this thread or the '60s one, but could the similarities between MM and RR and those between NME and Disc be more due to survey period? I can't recall what these were for the respective papers, apart from RR's which was Monday-to-Saturday, but I seem to remember they did differ. If Disc and NME's survey frame was the same or very similar, as was RR and MM's, then presumably their respective charts might reflect similar positions and movements, albeit there was a yawning chasm between the latter two on sample size.

[MrTibbs]

NEW 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas

This was released in December 1964 by The Royal Showband Waterford (Featuring Brendan Bowyer). But the B side became even more popular - "The Hucklebuck". It went straight to no. 1 in Ireland and stayed there for 6 weeks, outselling the Beatles "I feel fine". However, it meant nothing in the UK.

Coast to Coast had a no. 5 hit with "The Hucklebuck" in 1981.

Yeah it always surprised me that The Hucklebuck didn't take off in the UK chart as it was popular at the time and for years afterwards frequently played at weddings, parties, and even discos. It was much better too than the awful Coast To Coast cover.

[brian05]

NEW 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas

This was released in December 1964 by The Royal Showband Waterford (Featuring Brendan Bowyer). But the B side became even more popular - "The Hucklebuck". It went straight to no. 1 in Ireland and stayed there for 6 weeks, outselling the Beatles "I feel fine". However, it meant nothing in the UK.

Coast to Coast had a no. 5 hit with "The Hucklebuck" in 1981.

[Splodj]

It could be the difference between phoned and postal returns.

It wasn't just advance orders, because when you look at the second week of entry a fast riser tends to be placed in the order of NME, Disc, MM, RR.

[MrTibbs]

Agreement at the top again.



Yet in the 60s, when NME we're fastest, Disc were second fastest.

What I did notice in the sixties when I entered all the chart positions was that NME and Disc were broadly in agreement and MM and RR also tended to be somewhat similar. It appeared there were two different lines of opinion. Of course NME and Disc used advance orders so that possibly explained their similarity. Oddly MM had the biggest sample and RR had the smallest yet their chart pattern if not positions tended to be similar.

Work that one out

[Splodj]

Agreement at the top again.

Of course Disc is lagging behind both with the no.1 and Ragtime Cowboy Joe.

Yet in the 60s, when NME we're fastest, Disc were second fastest.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 8th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 8th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Living Doll - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	6450
2	2	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					2	2	2	2	2	6235
3	3	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					3	3	3	3	3	6020
4	4	A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley					4	4	4	4	4	5805
5	5	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					5	5	5	5	5	5590
6	6	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					6	5	6	6	6	5450
7	7	Roulette - Russ Conway					7	7	7	7	7	5160
9	8	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					8	11	8	8	8	4720
8	9	Personality - Anthony Newley					9	8	9	12	10	4610
15	10	Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks					10	12	14	11	11	4120
10	11	It's Late - Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					12=	10	19	10	12	4080
14	12	The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan					11	15	11	15	9	3940
12	13	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka					12=	9	10	14	18	3930
11	14	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					14=	14	20	9	15	3610
19	15	I Know - Perry Como					16	15	16	18	14	3330
NEW	16	Someone - Johnny Mathis					14=	12	12		13	3170
13	17	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					17	21	13	13	17	3030
29	18	Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone					19=	23	18		16	1955
18	19	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					18		17	16	20	1825
20	20	Personality - Lloyd Price					19=		15		19	1280
16	21	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas						15				1200
22	22	Side Saddle - Russ Conway						19				900
23	23	May You Always - Joan Regan						20				825
17	24	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley						29		17		780
28	25	Petite Fleur - Chris Barber						22				675
21	26	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley								19		540
NEW	27	Summer Of The 17th Doll - Winifred Atwell						24				525
NEW	28	Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas								20		495
NEW	29	Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas						26				375
26	30	Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly						27				300
26		Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent						28				225
		My Melancholy Baby - Tommy Edwards						29				150
		Yep - Duane Eddy						18
		Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers						25
24		For A Penny - Pat Boone
25		Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates
30		La Plume De Ma Tante - Hugo and Luigi

[MrTibbs]

BTW i notice on some of the charts you have "Take a Message to Mary" and others you have "Take a Letter to Mary". I believe the former is the correct title.

Yeah somewhere along the way the 'message' became a 'letter' and it is 'message'.

[braindeadpj]

BTW i notice on some of the charts you have "Take a Message to Mary" and others you have "Take a Letter to Mary". I believe the former is the correct title.

[braindeadpj]

So on the August 1st chart, the BBC again appear to have a calculation error as I know by Perry Como is actually at 18 and not equal 17.

While RM is generally ahead of the curve it seems they're a little behind with Lonely Boy only at 20. Of course Disc is lagging behind both with the no.1 and Ragtime Cowboy Joe. Good agreement in the top 7 with three of the positions being identical across the charts and only 1 place out for some of the others.

[kingofskiffle]

I shall leave as I had not seen the new thread at the time I made my comment.

[ChartAfondicio]

If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.

I actually created a new thread with the pertinent samples on the introductory post:

What If? - U.S. "Averaged" Charts

Whatever one does here with what was already contributed . . .

[MrTibbs]

If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.

The US equivalent chart is a sound idea and has much potential if fine tuned to compliment the UK UAC and does warrant its own thread as a focus for interest. I really don't mind the postings here thus far I too enjoyed them,but don't want to see the thread going in two directions going forward

[kingofskiffle]

If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.

[braindeadpj]

Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.

Yes, sorry about that, just thinking out loud about the problems inherent with a US averaged one based on the two already posted (that probably should be in their own thread you're right)...

[ChartAfondicio]

Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.

It's funny, that was what I too was recommending . . .

[MrTibbs]

Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.