Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Splodj
    replied
    One thing that caught my eye on that page - 'Pretty Belinda' number one in Sweden!!

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I almost want to add one of those wikipedia tags you sometimes see

    "following the most unanimously agreed lineage" [by who?].

    Leave a comment:


  • setg1
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    But in the sleeve notes for 1 George Martin states,

    "This collection of number ones is taken from the most widely circulated charts in the UK (Record Mirror) and the USA (Billboard)."

    No other charts were considered.
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

    Which if nothing else explains the missing of Please Please Me.....
    But it doesn't explain why one of their Billboard number ones was omitted:

    https://books.google.fi/books?id=eSk...page&q&f=false

    Not that anyone will really miss "For You Blue" on the compilation, but it is a number one hit by the same criteria as "Something" (Billboard combined the sales and airplay of the more popular and the less popular side, listing them together). That just shows they couldn't even follow the criteria they supposedly used.

    RokinRobinOfLocksley A sixth one for the list: "Magical Mystery Tour" was number one in Melody Maker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    "For the purposes of this database, we are following the most unanimously agreed lineage. Chart historians have long since agreed the NME published the pre-eminent singles chart from launch in November 1952 until February 1960, when the Record Retailer took over as the chart of choice. As far as albums are concerned the Record Mirror chart was the original (and most widely recognised) rundown, from July 1956 until March 1960, when the Record Retailer took over From this point in 1960, Record Retailer unified the albums and singles charts, remaining the source of choice through until early 1969 when BMRB took over the reins."

    The point is this is simply untrue. They can claim that these are the most readily available historic charts, but not that they were pre-eminent at the time or can be regarded as such now by any objective measure.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    But in the sleeve notes for 1 George Martin states,

    "This collection of number ones is taken from the most widely circulated charts in the UK (Record Mirror) and the USA (Billboard)."

    No other charts were considered.
    Which if nothing else explains the missing of Please Please Me.....

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    But in the sleeve notes for 1 George Martin states,

    "This collection of number ones is taken from the most widely circulated charts in the UK (Record Mirror) and the USA (Billboard)."

    No other charts were considered.

    Leave a comment:


  • setg1
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Twist and Shout was only no. 2 in Billboard
    But number one on both Cash Box and Music Vendor (later known as Record World). Arguably the second most significant omission on 1 after "Please Please Me". Also an EP chart number one in Record Retailer.

    They didn't even bother to follow the criteria of including all the Record Retailer and Billboard number ones consistently, as the case of the already mentioned "For You Blue" shows – number one on both Billboard and Record World (thanks to being listed together with its A-side) but missed out in Cash Box where they kept listing the sides separately. But they still included "Something" which was only a number two in Cash Box. Undeniably, this makes it much more popular than the Cash Box #71 hit "For You Blue", but neither song would have topped the chart without being combined with the other side of the single. And more controversially, you could also say the same about "Day Tripper" (number one in the UK as a double A-side, but not a top four hit on any of the US charts while "We Can Work It Out" was number one). So that makes a couple of number ones just as debatable as or more so than "Please Please Me"...

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    They could have included Please please me by chopping off about 4 minutes of Hey Jude.

    Twist and Shout was only no. 2 in Billboard, Nowhere man was no. 3 in Billboard, Strawberry Fields was no. 8 in Billboard

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I suspect it’s apathy. Does it matter, in one way, particularly to a record company, 8 years after the final chart that this is being chosen as the definitive chart? I am reading the old music weeks being posted on the American site and reading about the tie at number 1 (or not...) and the only reason they where annoyed was because they coul;dn;t use the tag “number 1 in the UK” at that point as a marketing tool. Would they have cared 8 years later?

    Take Please Please Me. in 1963 it either was or was not a number 1. 15 years later does that, to the record company, matter? To us of course it does! But to EMI when the bulk of those sales where done and any now would be on the name Beatles and not “former UK number 1”.

    I’d say again in 2001 or so when the chart canon was “officialized” it was decades later and it doesn’t matter - to the record labels.

    Maybe I’m being to glass half empty, but that would seem the logical case to me. My current job is a maths tutor for a company specialising in international students. Right now we care about student numbers this year and next year vs last year and the year before. We don’t really care about numbers from 10 years ago - unless we can use that as a competitive advantage or it adds to a big number. Record companies almost certainly work the same. “x sold 2,000,000 copies!” is what they care about, not “x was number 1 on this chart and 2 on this one so can we have this as the official chart”.

    I’m happy to be educated otherwise if anybody knows better than me, but the above, to me, seems logical and plausible.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I've long been amazed and perplexed at how little opposition materialised to RR being adopted as the 'official' chart even initially in 1977 by Guinness.. Artists, record companies, music papers, all just seemed to roll over and accept it without question. Given there was no opposition to speak of no wonder the OCC rubber stamped it and adopted it too. Even now I can't understand how easy the whole process was.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    It makes no sense that a record company would credit an artist with FEWER #1 records than what they actually achieved. EMI staff in 2000 probably had few if any employees that were still working there from 1963. So they just pulled out the Guinness book with its revisionism, and a Billboard book for the US, and went with that. They probably ran the track list by Paul, George, Ringo, and John's widow for approval, who may not have even looked at it, or didn't voice any objections. Or if there were objections, EMI would have responded they were going by the 'official' charts, or could only get so many tracks on the CD, they had to leave off some. Case closed.

    Never mind that The Beatles had 5 other #1 records on the other major charts in the UK and US that weren't on the '1' CD: Please Please Me, Strawberry Fields Forever, Twist and Shout, Nowhere Man, and b-side For You Blue. EMI could have done the math and left off the least performing #1's. Or made separate '1' CDs for the UK and US. Or made it a 2-CD set and included everything. But why go thru all that trouble when you could just go with the worst UK chart, and the only US chart with a readily accessible chart book series? They were going to produce this '1' CD on a single CD, and the track list (plus or minus a song or two) wouldn't have made any difference in net sales.

    So instead of getting "all" the #1's, or the "biggest" #1's, we get "some" of the #1's. Or 27 out of 32 = "84% of the #1's which may not necessarily be the biggest". That would be a great CD title, ha...

    But yeah, Paul and Ringo should take a public stand against the 'official' charts. Wouldn't that be kool? And Mick and Keith as well. Check out my 1-star rant review of the '1' CD on Amazon when you get a free minute...

    Leave a comment:


  • Richard M White
    replied
    Interesting the smallest sample (RR) and the biggest sample (MM) had Please Please Me at no 2

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    It has been said that the particularly bad weather on the night Please Please Me was featured on Thank Your Lucky Stars gave it a boost because of the increased audience.

    When it made number one EMI hosted a party to celebrate. It occurs to me that latterly EMI could have made a stand against 'official' chart revisionism by including it on the '1' album.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopTwenty
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    A thought just crossed my mind: the charts being posted at present are from one of the coldest and snowiest winters of the 20th Century. From Christmas 1962 to early March 1963 the UK was quite literally snowed under in the coldest winter since 1740 (though 1947 was snowier). I wonder how high sales were in this period given how severe the weather was for 2 months?
    Two of Cliff’s biggest selling records of the sixties came during the first three months of a snowy, freezing 1963. It seems that some people at least were facing the elements and trudging to the record shops.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    and there is your answer .. the battle is easily won, The Beatles easily overtake Frank to capture #1 and music history begins.

    Cliff has 4 songs on the NME Top 30 due to split sides.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 23rd 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 23rd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Please Please Me - The Beatles 1 1 2 1 2 9720
    2 2 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 2 1 3 2 1 9550
    1 3 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 3 1 3 3 9540
    12 4 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 4 4 6 4 4 8610
    4 5 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 6 6 4 6 5 8580
    7 6 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 5 5 5 5 6 8550
    10 7 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 7 8 8 8 8 7590
    11 8 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 8 12 7 9 7 7320
    5 9 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard* 12 16 10 10 9 7000
    13 10 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 9 10 9 12 10 6980
    15 11 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 11 11 11 11 11 6600
    23 12 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 10 7 15 7 12 6570
    8 13 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 13 14 13 15 14 5710
    6 14 Globetrotter - The Tornados 14 15 12 17 16 5600
    19 15 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 15 20 14 16 15 4880
    9 16 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 16 17 16 19 13 4790
    NEW 17 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 18 9 24 13 27 4270
    30 18 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 17 13 23 14 22 4120
    16 19 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 22 17 24 17 3770
    21 20 Tell Him - Billie Davis 20 21 19 18 24 3660
    14 21 Dance On - The Shadows 22 28 18 20 21 3100
    17 22 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 21 26 20 22 18 2990
    NEW 23 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 23 19 25 21 26 2750
    18 24 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 25 27 22 27 20 2280
    20 25 My Little Girl - The Crickets 24 21 23 19 2260
    27 26 Charmaine - The Bachelors 26 23 26 30 23 1840
    NEW 27 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 27 24 25 1000
    22 28 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 29= 29 27 29 860
    26 29 It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 28 29 29 25 580
    29 30 The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 28 28 540
    * This week the split sides would have affected NME's averaged chart positionso an average was taken from the other 3 charts giving an average of 9.6 to Cliff Richard and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position for both sides together.
    The Next Time - Cliff Richard 18
    Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 25
    B Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 29= 30 30 26 30 530
    X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 28 150
    24 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley
    25 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch
    28 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    The wonderful theme to Fireball XL5
    I bought the EP version which was released in April when the single was still rising in the charts.

    The other theme tune I rushed out to buy was Doctor Who.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    A thought just crossed my mind: the charts being posted at present are from one of the coldest and snowiest winters of the 20th Century. From Christmas 1962 to early March 1963 the UK was quite literally snowed under in the coldest winter since 1740 (though 1947 was snowier). I wonder how high sales were in this period given how severe the weather was for 2 months?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    Yes, a lovely song! Shame it never went that high (32 on RR in an 11 week run then back again in June). Very pleased though that it was re-issued at the end of last year on vinyl and got to 9 on the Vinyl chart (2 Jan 2021) and 14 in Scotland and 10 in Wales (those regional charts are now Physical and not iTunes downloads) and is 83 this week in Scotland. A lovely tune and a lovely series.
    Captain Steve Zodiac and his female co-pilot Venus if I remember correctly. It's one of those iconic theme tunes that have stayed with me down through the years. Conjures up magical memories of a more innocent time.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Yes, a lovely song! Shame it never went that high (32 on RR in an 11 week run then back again in June). Very pleased though that it was re-issued at the end of last year on vinyl and got to 9 on the Vinyl chart (2 Jan 2021) and 14 in Scotland and 10 in Wales (those regional charts are now Physical and not iTunes downloads) and is 83 this week in Scotland. A lovely tune and a lovely series.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Diamonds is under pressure .. both Frank and The Beatles close in but who is The Ultimate Chart gonna favour ?

    The theme from one of my very first favourite TV shows is just outside the top thirty this week. The wonderful theme to Fireball XL5, ''I wish I was a spaceman, the fastest guy alive, I'd fly you round the universe in Fireball XL5'', Magical Stuff for a 9 year old. !!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 16th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 16th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 1 1 1 2 1 9850
    4 2 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 2 2 3 1 2 9470
    6 3 Please Please Me - The Beatles 3 3 2 3 3 9390
    5 4 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 4 4 4 4 4 8910
    2 5 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 5 9 5 5 5 8180
    3 6 Globetrotter - The Tornados 8 8 6 9 13 7690
    12 7 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 6 5 11 6 6 7600
    8 8 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 7 10 7 10 7 7470
    7 9 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 9 12 8 8 8 7190
    11 10 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 10 7 10 11 12 7120
    10 11 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 11 11 9 12 9 6910
    24 12 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 12 6 15 7 14 6610
    13 13 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 13 13 13 13 10 6030
    9 14 Dance On - The Shadows 14 18 12 14 11 5600
    18 15 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 15 14 16 15 18 5140
    15 16 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 16= 19 14 17 16 4900
    14 17 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 16= 16 17 18 15 4730
    16 18 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 19 20 18 22 20 3830
    25 19 Have Nagila - The Spotnicks 18 22 19 16 19 3810
    23 20 My Little Girl - The Crickets 20 29 20 21 17 2770
    NEW 21 Tell Him - Billie Davis 21= 21 24 20 27 2720
    20 22 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 24= 23 23 26 25 2430
    NEW 23 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 21= 17 30 19 26 2300
    17 24 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 24= 27 22 25 23 2290
    19 25 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 23 21 24 28 1940
    27 26 It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 26= 25 26 28 24 1710
    28 27 Charmaine - The Bachelors 26= 24 28 29 22 1520
    21 28 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 30 25 30 930
    30 29 The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 28 27 21 900
    NEW 30 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 29 28 23 700
    The Next Time - Cliff Richard 15
    B Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 26 500
    22 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 29 29 360
    B Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 27 200
    X What Now - Adam Faith 30 100
    X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 30 50
    26 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy
    29 He's A Rebel - The Crystals

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I probably need to go through yours and mine side by side and see what the changes are

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post

    Lonnie, do you have the most recent BBC Dave/Trevor file? The most recent one (of the 4 Dave/Trevor revised files that I have) is the one Trevor sent me 18 June 2015.
    It is a shame because although the 4th version of the BBC chart manuscript does indeed have some much needed corrections made to it, it still carries quite a number of errors not corrected retrospectively. Like most of you I've had to correct these too on my copy as we discover more of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Not actually sure... I think I entered them around 2010 or so but I seem to have a file with a save date of 27 Jul 2016 (although that could be when I saved it.... Dropbox has a habit of amending save dates). The file does have all those errors listed in it though
Working...
X