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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined
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Brian is it possible to put in the last week positions of the UAC on your "breakers" section (for those that fell out) as it makes it easier to spot the up and coming ones. You don't have to back date them, the next charts will do. Thanks
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Looks like RR included in the BBC chart from this week, so Ultimate and BBC now using the same composite charts.
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There are 11 records below the UAC this week. It doesn’t surprise me that they are on the NME and RR charts, but it really surprises me that none of them are on both charts. This fact proves the importance of your UAC chart Brian.
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Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 31st 1962
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 31st 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1 1 1 1 1 8100 2 2 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 2 2 2 2 2 7830 3 3 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 3 3 3 3 7560 4 4 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 4 4 4 4 8 7170 9 5 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 5 6 5 7 4 6870 5 6 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 7 7 6 10 5 6500 6 7 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 6 9 7 5 6 6450 14 8 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 8 5 9 9 12 6170 12 9 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 10 7 12 6 15 5740 8 10 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 9 10 11 8 9 5690 10 11 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 11 11 8 16 7 5600 7 12 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 12 12 10 13 11 5330 13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 13 13 14 14 10 4790 11 14 The Wanderer - Dion 14 16 13 12 13 4670 20 15 Hey Little Girl - Del Shannon 15 14 20 11 18 3960 22 16 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 17= 23 15 18 19 3410 27 17 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 17= 15 16 21 3230 16 18 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 16 19 15 14 2270 23 19 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 20 17 20 2090 17 20 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 19 18 16 1880 15 21 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 18 20 1760 21 22 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 21 17 1500 24 23 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - The Drifters 17 1120 NEW 24 Love Me Warm And Tender - Paul Anka 21 23 1040 NEW 25 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - Craig Douglas 28 19 25 1020 NEW 26 Slow Twistin' - Chubby Checker 20 880 NEW 27 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - Jimmy Justice 23 640 19 28 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 27 22 590 NEW 29 Heaven's Plan - Mark Wynter 25 480 18 30 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 17 420 Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 18 Teach Me To Twist - Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell 26 400 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 24 210 I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 29 160 Jeannie - Danny Williams 26 150 Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 27 120 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 28 90 Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 30 80 Speak To Me Pretty - Brenda Lee 30 80 What Kind Of Fool Am I / Gonna Build A Mountain - Sammy Davis Jnr 29 60 Drums Are My Beat - Sandy Nelson 30 30
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Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
RM blamed the demise on their own chart on the rising cost of postage brain as it was costing more and more for them to pay postage costs for their chart return stores. So rather than look towards another method they just discontinued their own chart and adopted the worst chart as the alternative.
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Originally posted by braindeadpj View PostDid RM ever provide an explanation as to why they stopped creating their own chart and decided to use one with half the number of stores and erratic behavior (RR) instead? I'm guessing its probably due to financial reasons...?
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World Radio History unfortunately doesn't have the 24-03-1962 issue, but the 31-03-1962 is present and in the letters page there are a couple of congratulations on expanding to a Top 50 so perhaps this was also one of the reasons...
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Did RM ever provide an explanation as to why they stopped creating their own chart and decided to use one with half the number of stores and erratic behavior (RR) instead? I'm guessing its probably due to financial reasons...?
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Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 24th 1962
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 24th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 2 1 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1 1 1 1 1 8100 4 2 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 2 2 3 3 2 7670 1 3 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock- A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 3 2 4 3 7620 3 4 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 4 4 4 2 4 7390 6 5 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 5= 5 5 6 5 6970 7 6 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 5= 6 6 5 6 6800 5 7 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 8 12 7 7 7 6080 10 8 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 7 7 9 9 12 6010 15 9 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 9 10 10 10 9 5700 8 10 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 10 11 8 15 8 5620 14 11 The Wanderer - Dion 12 14 14 8 10 5010 17 12 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 11 8 16 11 18 4880 13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 14 15 12 13 11 4870 26 14 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 13 9 11 18 25 4790 12 15 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 15 25 12 14 14 3930 18 16 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 17 16 19 16 17 3690 9 17 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 16 15 12 13 3250 11 18 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 22 17 15 2740 16 19 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 21 19 16 2570 NEW 20 Hey Little Girl - Del Shannon 19= 17 20 24 1880 20 21 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 18 17 17 1820 23 22 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 19= 19 19 23 1800 22 23 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 30 18 1510 NEW 24 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - The Drifters 20 880 19 25 I'll See You In My Dreams - Pat Boone 23 30 670 25 26 I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 23 640 29 27 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 26 400 21 28 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 19 360 27 29 Jeannie - Danny Williams 20 330 28 30 Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 27 320 Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 13 Lesson One - Russ Conway 21 300 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 22 270 Heaven's Plan - Mark Wynter 28 240 Brazilian Love Song - Nat King Cole 29 160 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 26 150 Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 27 120 Tonight - Shirley Bassey 28 90 Love Me Warm And Tender - Paul Anka 29 60
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Brian, I think those sampled store numbers look reasonable for 1963, based on Alan's several articles here on UKMix.
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Your values are probably reasonable, though The Mirror report suggests only 147 retailers for MM in November 1964 - unless of course this only refers to the mail-in reports and not the "shops that are so busy, that their returns have to be talked through on the telephone" (totaling around 40). In which case total is only ~187....
Since this is a year before...
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Before I start compiling 1963 (which you will see in a few weeks) I need some opinions guys.
According to Alan Smith, shop store returns increased again by the start of 1963.
Alan advised NME were now on 100, RR still on 30, Disc still on 50. He did report that in February 1963 MM had an increased sample return of 245 returns. However I think this figure may have been built up over the year as record sales exploded to around the 250 by January 1964 therefore I think 150 is a reasonable middle ground figure to use which also keeps it better in proportion with the other charts.
As you know I use these store figures to further weigh the average chart so I need to know in general terms they appear realistic and robust.
Given that these will rise again at the start of 1964 according to Alan's research and used for that period ( NME 200, MM 250, Disc 100, RR 85 ) do you think my figures for 1963 are robust and credible to use ?
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I have both the front cover of the MM for that week and Mirror article in question. Unfortunately I am not authorised to include attachments,
But I have transcribed the Mirror article from Monday December 1st, shown below.
BIG CHART BATTLE
Front line report from the Mirror's DJ
OPERATION Chart, a mission to find out how Pop 30 is compiled, began in the misty darkness before yesterday's dawn with a sortie at 06.45 hours . . . while the Beatles slumbered in their flats and country mansions. It ended some five hours later with Ringo Starr looking over my shoulder and saying: " I'm made up " (whatever that might mean, except that the news was welcome).
They were at No. 1 again with " I Feel Fine "—from nowhere.
But how does that Melody Maker Pop Thirty chart that the Mirror has been using since 1961 work anyway?
To find all the answers, I took up position in a forward observation post in Melody Maker's office at 07.00 hours.
Editor Jack Hutton, already entrenched at his desk, had a flask of black coffee with him. Assistant Editor Ray Coleman had gone on patrol to GPO headquarters, close by St. Paul's, to collect the first returns of best-selling singles supplied by 147 retailers throughout the country.
THESE dealers they are not the same ones every week — had filled in their forms that take in the top forty.
07.40 HOURS ... Dawn was cracking when we watched the revealing of the first returns. "I Feel Fine " was there at the top from most. From the North, the Midlands, the South, the West.
On some of the returns there began to appear comments. "Could have sold more Beatles if I had them in stock," said one shop. The form the dealers get has spaces for the forty best-selling discs. Most shops fill in twenty or thirty.
Then there are the shops that are so, busy that their returns have to be talked through on the telephone some forty disc retailers.
The top record on these returns - phoned or written - is given 40 points. The second is given 39 points. And so on through the list.
09.30 HOURS ... On the lists received so far there were 5,000 or so disc returns to be computed.
Out came four adding machines for Editor Hutton's assistants. Reels of fat ticker tape coiled around the floor.
Points tallying went on relentlessly with the click-click of the adding machines.
10.50 HOURS ... Mirror reoirter Don Short wakened Ringo with a telephone call.
"Looks like you're No. 1 again" he said. "Come along and watch the final figures."
"Didn't get to bed till 5 a.m.," Ringo said when he touched down at the Mirror observation post.
Someone reminded him that he was having his tonsils out on Wednesday and he said "I Feel Fine."
Outside in the cold the Stones' "Little Red Rooster" was scratching away ... very nearby at No. 2.
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On Sunday 29th November and Monday 30th November 1964 the Daily Mirror reporter Patrick Doncaster observed the MM chart compilation. No doubt this was mentioned in the 5-Nov MM, but I would be more interested in seeing the original Mirror article.
There was also an article about their chart compilation in MM 9-Feb-63, rebutting allegations in the Daily Express.
The compilers would not have needed special measures to avoid mass sales in one area unduly affecting the chart (as claimed in the linked article) because the points system would have done this automatically.
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I'm really gonna enjoy myself now, I've just finished 1962 and can now enthusiastically progress into my era from 1963 onwards throughout the sixties. 'Out with the old and in with the new', hey I was a kid, and before '63 was 'old folks stuff', I wanted the exciting new music about to be unleashed on this child of the sixties. Bring it on !
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Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View PostInteresting article on Brian Epstein and why he did not / would not / could not have hyped "Love Me Do" into the charts. Author repeats the falsehood that RR was 'official' in 1962, ugh:
http://www.mccartney.com/?p=9250
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Originally posted by Splodj View PostOne argument for RR is that it's lower profile meant it was less prone to hyping. I think it's lower profile simply meant it was less likely to be investigated for hyping, rather than actually be a victim of hyping. Particularly in the upcoming period when it was available to the public and had a Top 50 based on only 30 returns.
And to be certain the "hyping" was new records that they were not certain would sell. So any record that's new to the chart and not in the other charts is a potential hyped record. For that chart. Of course that would depend too if all the charts used different shops to the rest. But since we don't have the list of chart shops (although the lists were available to the hypers themselves). I wouldn't be at all surprised that several shops were supplying the same lists to all the charts. Though Alan did say that wasn't the case. He didn't actually show any evidence for this.
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Interesting article on Brian Epstein and why he did not / would not / could not have hyped "Love Me Do" into the charts. Author repeats the falsehood that RR was 'official' in 1962, ugh:
http://www.mccartney.com/?p=9250
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One argument for RR is that it's lower profile meant it was less prone to hyping. I think it's lower profile simply meant it was less likely to be investigated for hyping, rather than actually be a victim of hyping. Particularly in the upcoming period when it was available to the public and had a Top 50 based on only 30 returns.
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You can again clearly see why split sides are a problem and affect the NME chart position. Of the two Elvis sides the highest is 5 in NME as opposed to 1 1 2 1 on the other four charts.
This week is the swan song for RM, who once they got their act together in late 1955 actually compiled a chart whose credibility at least competed with NME and according to email communications I had with Dave Taylor surpassed it between 1956 and 1962. So we lost a valuable chart, made worse by RM then adopting the weak, least accurate, most derided chart of them all the RR chart thus giving it a status of prominence it would never otherwise have enjoyed.
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Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 17th 1962
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 17th 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 5 1 1 2 1 9830 6 2 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1= 1 2 2 3 2 9600 2 3 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 1= 2 4 3 1 6 9270 7 4 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 4 3 3 6 4 3 8860 4 5 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 5= 7 7 4 5 4 8440 3 6 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 5= 4 6 5 7 7 8440 5 7 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 7 6 5 7 6 5 8230 10 8 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 8 11 9 8 10 8 7190 9 9 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 9 15 8 9 8 12 6800 15 10 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 10 9 10 12 14 14 6470 11 11 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 11 16 11 11 9 9 6360 8 12 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 13 19 13 10 11 10 5980 13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 12 14 12 13 13 11 5980 14 14 The Wanderer - Dion 14 13 14 16 12 17 5480 24 15 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 15 12 16 15 16 16 5380 12 16 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 17 18 18 14 15 13 5030 19 17 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 16 10 17 18 19 24 4760 22 18 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 24 15 18 20 2500 18 19 I'll See You In My Dreams - Pat Boone 18= 23 19 17 2060 27 20 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 18= 17 20 1780 20 21 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 19 18 1710 NEW 22 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 18= 17 1540 NEW 23 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 29 20 27 1490 23 24 Lesson One - Russ Conway 29 20 22 980 NEW 25 I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 20 880 NEW 26 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 21 800 25 27 Jeannie - Danny Williams 26 19 760 NEW 28 Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 22 720 29 29 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 25 480 16 30 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 15 480 * This week the split sides would have affected NME's averaged chart positionso an average was taken from the other 4 charts giving an average of 1.25 to Elvis Presley and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position for both sides together. * This was the last week that Record Mirror compiled its own chart. From 24th March it will use RR chart. Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 8 Brazilian Love Song - Nat King Cole 27 320 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 21 300 Listen To Me - Buddy Holly 28 240 Tonight - Shirley Bassey 23 240 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 25 180 Duke Of Earl - Gene Chandler 29 160 Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 26 150 The Comancheros - Lonnie Donegan 28 90 Please Don't Ask About Barbara - Bobby Vee 29 60 Lessons In Love - The Allisons 30 30
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And again your layout demonstrates 'at a glance' what the number one should be with the other charts showing 1111 in the first week, and only Disc slightly differing in the second week.
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Originally posted by Splodj View PostMystified why the BBC used the 'average of the others' principle for EPs but not split sides.
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The EMI chart also separated sides, as of course did Billboard, so I suppose there is an argument for doing so.
With a composite chart, however, you really need to go one way or the other. And as NME are the odd one out it is a no-brainer which way to go here.
Mystified why the BBC used the 'average of the others' principle for EPs but not split sides.
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