Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Graham76man
    replied
    Brian is it possible to put in the last week positions of the UAC on your "breakers" section (for those that fell out) as it makes it easier to spot the up and coming ones. You don't have to back date them, the next charts will do. Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Looks like RR included in the BBC chart from this week, so Ultimate and BBC now using the same composite charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    There are 11 records below the UAC this week. It doesn’t surprise me that they are on the NME and RR charts, but it really surprises me that none of them are on both charts. This fact proves the importance of your UAC chart Brian.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 31st 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 31st 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1 1 1 1 1 8100
    2 2 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 2 2 2 2 2 7830
    3 3 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 3 3 3 3 7560
    4 4 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 4 4 4 4 8 7170
    9 5 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 5 6 5 7 4 6870
    5 6 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 7 7 6 10 5 6500
    6 7 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 6 9 7 5 6 6450
    14 8 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 8 5 9 9 12 6170
    12 9 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 10 7 12 6 15 5740
    8 10 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 9 10 11 8 9 5690
    10 11 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 11 11 8 16 7 5600
    7 12 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 12 12 10 13 11 5330
    13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 13 13 14 14 10 4790
    11 14 The Wanderer - Dion 14 16 13 12 13 4670
    20 15 Hey Little Girl - Del Shannon 15 14 20 11 18 3960
    22 16 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 17= 23 15 18 19 3410
    27 17 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 17= 15 16 21 3230
    16 18 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 16 19 15 14 2270
    23 19 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 20 17 20 2090
    17 20 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 19 18 16 1880
    15 21 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 18 20 1760
    21 22 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 21 17 1500
    24 23 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - The Drifters 17 1120
    NEW 24 Love Me Warm And Tender - Paul Anka 21 23 1040
    NEW 25 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - Craig Douglas 28 19 25 1020
    NEW 26 Slow Twistin' - Chubby Checker 20 880
    NEW 27 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - Jimmy Justice 23 640
    19 28 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 27 22 590
    NEW 29 Heaven's Plan - Mark Wynter 25 480
    18 30 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 17 420
    Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 18
    Teach Me To Twist - Chubby Checker and Bobby Rydell 26 400
    A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 24 210
    I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 29 160
    Jeannie - Danny Williams 26 150
    Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 27 120
    Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 28 90
    Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 30 80
    Speak To Me Pretty - Brenda Lee 30 80
    What Kind Of Fool Am I / Gonna Build A Mountain - Sammy Davis Jnr 29 60
    Drums Are My Beat - Sandy Nelson 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    RM blamed the demise on their own chart on the rising cost of postage brain as it was costing more and more for them to pay postage costs for their chart return stores. So rather than look towards another method they just discontinued their own chart and adopted the worst chart as the alternative.
    As I thought financial reasons. Shame they went for the worst chart... possibly because they had a Top 50 - and a Top 20 album and Top 20 EP chart?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Did RM ever provide an explanation as to why they stopped creating their own chart and decided to use one with half the number of stores and erratic behavior (RR) instead? I'm guessing its probably due to financial reasons...?
    RM blamed the demise on their own chart on the rising cost of postage brain as it was costing more and more for them to pay postage costs for their chart return stores. So rather than look towards another method they just discontinued their own chart and adopted the worst chart as the alternative.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    World Radio History unfortunately doesn't have the 24-03-1962 issue, but the 31-03-1962 is present and in the letters page there are a couple of congratulations on expanding to a Top 50 so perhaps this was also one of the reasons...

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Did RM ever provide an explanation as to why they stopped creating their own chart and decided to use one with half the number of stores and erratic behavior (RR) instead? I'm guessing its probably due to financial reasons...?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 24th 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 24th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1 1 1 1 1 8100
    4 2 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 2 2 3 3 2 7670
    1 3 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock- A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 3 2 4 3 7620
    3 4 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 4 4 4 2 4 7390
    6 5 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 5= 5 5 6 5 6970
    7 6 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 5= 6 6 5 6 6800
    5 7 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 8 12 7 7 7 6080
    10 8 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 7 7 9 9 12 6010
    15 9 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 9 10 10 10 9 5700
    8 10 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 10 11 8 15 8 5620
    14 11 The Wanderer - Dion 12 14 14 8 10 5010
    17 12 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 11 8 16 11 18 4880
    13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 14 15 12 13 11 4870
    26 14 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 13 9 11 18 25 4790
    12 15 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 15 25 12 14 14 3930
    18 16 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 17 16 19 16 17 3690
    9 17 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 16 15 12 13 3250
    11 18 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 22 17 15 2740
    16 19 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 21 19 16 2570
    NEW 20 Hey Little Girl - Del Shannon 19= 17 20 24 1880
    20 21 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 18 17 17 1820
    23 22 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 19= 19 19 23 1800
    22 23 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 30 18 1510
    NEW 24 When My Little Girl Is Smiling - The Drifters 20 880
    19 25 I'll See You In My Dreams - Pat Boone 23 30 670
    25 26 I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 23 640
    29 27 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 26 400
    21 28 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 19 360
    27 29 Jeannie - Danny Williams 20 330
    28 30 Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 27 320
    Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 13
    Lesson One - Russ Conway 21 300
    Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 22 270
    Heaven's Plan - Mark Wynter 28 240
    Brazilian Love Song - Nat King Cole 29 160
    Run To Him - Bobby Vee 26 150
    Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 27 120
    Tonight - Shirley Bassey 28 90
    Love Me Warm And Tender - Paul Anka 29 60

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Brian, I think those sampled store numbers look reasonable for 1963, based on Alan's several articles here on UKMix.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Your values are probably reasonable, though The Mirror report suggests only 147 retailers for MM in November 1964 - unless of course this only refers to the mail-in reports and not the "shops that are so busy, that their returns have to be talked through on the telephone" (totaling around 40). In which case total is only ~187....
    Since this is a year before...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Before I start compiling 1963 (which you will see in a few weeks) I need some opinions guys.

    According to Alan Smith, shop store returns increased again by the start of 1963.

    Alan advised NME were now on 100, RR still on 30, Disc still on 50. He did report that in February 1963 MM had an increased sample return of 245 returns. However I think this figure may have been built up over the year as record sales exploded to around the 250 by January 1964 therefore I think 150 is a reasonable middle ground figure to use which also keeps it better in proportion with the other charts.

    As you know I use these store figures to further weigh the average chart so I need to know in general terms they appear realistic and robust.

    Given that these will rise again at the start of 1964 according to Alan's research and used for that period ( NME 200, MM 250, Disc 100, RR 85 ) do you think my figures for 1963 are robust and credible to use ?

    Leave a comment:


  • chartwatcherdl
    replied
    I have both the front cover of the MM for that week and Mirror article in question. Unfortunately I am not authorised to include attachments,

    But I have transcribed the Mirror article from Monday December 1st, shown below.

    BIG CHART BATTLE

    Front line report from the Mirror's DJ

    OPERATION Chart, a mission to find out how Pop 30 is compiled, began in the misty darkness before yesterday's dawn with a sortie at 06.45 hours . . . while the Beatles slumbered in their flats and country mansions. It ended some five hours later with Ringo Starr looking over my shoulder and saying: " I'm made up " (whatever that might mean, except that the news was welcome).

    They were at No. 1 again with " I Feel Fine "—from nowhere.

    But how does that Melody Maker Pop Thirty chart that the Mirror has been using since 1961 work anyway?

    To find all the answers, I took up position in a forward observation post in Melody Maker's office at 07.00 hours.

    Editor Jack Hutton, already entrenched at his desk, had a flask of black coffee with him. Assistant Editor Ray Coleman had gone on patrol to GPO headquarters, close by St. Paul's, to collect the first returns of best-selling singles supplied by 147 retailers throughout the country.

    THESE dealers they are not the same ones every week — had filled in their forms that take in the top forty.

    07.40 HOURS ... Dawn was cracking when we watched the revealing of the first returns. "I Feel Fine " was there at the top from most. From the North, the Midlands, the South, the West.
    On some of the returns there began to appear comments. "Could have sold more Beatles if I had them in stock," said one shop. The form the dealers get has spaces for the forty best-selling discs. Most shops fill in twenty or thirty.

    Then there are the shops that are so, busy that their returns have to be talked through on the telephone some forty disc retailers.
    The top record on these returns - phoned or written - is given 40 points. The second is given 39 points. And so on through the list.

    09.30 HOURS ... On the lists received so far there were 5,000 or so disc returns to be computed.
    Out came four adding machines for Editor Hutton's assistants. Reels of fat ticker tape coiled around the floor.

    Points tallying went on relentlessly with the click-click of the adding machines.

    10.50 HOURS ... Mirror reoirter Don Short wakened Ringo with a telephone call.

    "Looks like you're No. 1 again" he said. "Come along and watch the final figures."

    "Didn't get to bed till 5 a.m.," Ringo said when he touched down at the Mirror observation post.

    Someone reminded him that he was having his tonsils out on Wednesday and he said "I Feel Fine."

    Outside in the cold the Stones' "Little Red Rooster" was scratching away ... very nearby at No. 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I meant 5-Dec MM, not Nov.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    On Sunday 29th November and Monday 30th November 1964 the Daily Mirror reporter Patrick Doncaster observed the MM chart compilation. No doubt this was mentioned in the 5-Nov MM, but I would be more interested in seeing the original Mirror article.

    There was also an article about their chart compilation in MM 9-Feb-63, rebutting allegations in the Daily Express.

    The compilers would not have needed special measures to avoid mass sales in one area unduly affecting the chart (as claimed in the linked article) because the points system would have done this automatically.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I'm really gonna enjoy myself now, I've just finished 1962 and can now enthusiastically progress into my era from 1963 onwards throughout the sixties. 'Out with the old and in with the new', hey I was a kid, and before '63 was 'old folks stuff', I wanted the exciting new music about to be unleashed on this child of the sixties. Bring it on !

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Interesting article on Brian Epstein and why he did not / would not / could not have hyped "Love Me Do" into the charts. Author repeats the falsehood that RR was 'official' in 1962, ugh:

    http://www.mccartney.com/?p=9250
    Interesting that he mentions a Melody Maker of 5 December 1964 having a special on the charts. Unfortunately there's no copy of it on the American website. So if anyone has one it's something we need to see.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    One argument for RR is that it's lower profile meant it was less prone to hyping. I think it's lower profile simply meant it was less likely to be investigated for hyping, rather than actually be a victim of hyping. Particularly in the upcoming period when it was available to the public and had a Top 50 based on only 30 returns.
    Who would have investigated any of these charts for hyping? They were all separate companies, they would have their own measures in place to prevent hyping. The national press might have done one off investigations into the alleged hype of certain records, but these would have been one offs, probably not aimed at any chart maker. The only way that these papers could have prevented hyping is to have reserve shops (kept as secret as possible) to have the list of used shops checked off against. However that method seems to have only been used by BMRB years later. We know Record Retailer didn't use it's 30 shops all at once, but rotated them to prevent the targeting of shops. Having said that 30 shops is not that a big an operation for some of the big record companies to hit. 80 to 100 shops is however, so I would have thought that 100 shops was the total and if you wanted to do a monthly rotation then you just select 25 shops each week out of that lot. If you were to do it random that would be even more secure.
    And to be certain the "hyping" was new records that they were not certain would sell. So any record that's new to the chart and not in the other charts is a potential hyped record. For that chart. Of course that would depend too if all the charts used different shops to the rest. But since we don't have the list of chart shops (although the lists were available to the hypers themselves). I wouldn't be at all surprised that several shops were supplying the same lists to all the charts. Though Alan did say that wasn't the case. He didn't actually show any evidence for this.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Interesting article on Brian Epstein and why he did not / would not / could not have hyped "Love Me Do" into the charts. Author repeats the falsehood that RR was 'official' in 1962, ugh:

    http://www.mccartney.com/?p=9250

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    One argument for RR is that it's lower profile meant it was less prone to hyping. I think it's lower profile simply meant it was less likely to be investigated for hyping, rather than actually be a victim of hyping. Particularly in the upcoming period when it was available to the public and had a Top 50 based on only 30 returns.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    You can again clearly see why split sides are a problem and affect the NME chart position. Of the two Elvis sides the highest is 5 in NME as opposed to 1 1 2 1 on the other four charts.

    This week is the swan song for RM, who once they got their act together in late 1955 actually compiled a chart whose credibility at least competed with NME and according to email communications I had with Dave Taylor surpassed it between 1956 and 1962. So we lost a valuable chart, made worse by RM then adopting the weak, least accurate, most derided chart of them all the RR chart thus giving it a status of prominence it would never otherwise have enjoyed.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 17th 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 17th 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Can't Help Falling In Love / Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 3 5 1 1 2 1 9830
    6 2 Wonderful Land - The Shadows 1= 1 2 2 3 2 9600
    2 3 March Of The Siamese Children - Kenny Ball 1= 2 4 3 1 6 9270
    7 4 Tell Me What He Said - Helen Shapiro 4 3 3 6 4 3 8860
    4 5 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 5= 7 7 4 5 4 8440
    3 6 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 5= 4 6 5 7 7 8440
    5 7 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 7 6 5 7 6 5 8230
    10 8 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 8 11 9 8 10 8 7190
    9 9 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 9 15 8 9 8 12 6800
    15 10 A Hole In The Ground - Bernard Cribbins 10 9 10 12 14 14 6470
    11 11 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 11 16 11 11 9 9 6360
    8 12 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 13 19 13 10 11 10 5980
    13 13 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 12 14 12 13 13 11 5980
    14 14 The Wanderer - Dion 14 13 14 16 12 17 5480
    24 15 Dream Baby - Roy Orbison 15 12 16 15 16 16 5380
    12 16 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 17 18 18 14 15 13 5030
    19 17 Twisting The Night Away - Sam Cooke 16 10 17 18 19 24 4760
    22 18 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Johnny Keating 24 15 18 20 2500
    18 19 I'll See You In My Dreams - Pat Boone 18= 23 19 17 2060
    27 20 Letter Full Of Tears - Billy Fury 18= 17 20 1780
    20 21 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 19 18 1710
    NEW 22 Theme From 'Z Cars' - Norrie Paramor 18= 17 1540
    NEW 23 Theme From 'Dr. Kildare' - Johnny Spence 29 20 27 1490
    23 24 Lesson One - Russ Conway 29 20 22 980
    NEW 25 I Ain't Got Nobody - Buddy Greco 20 880
    NEW 26 Hey Baby - Bruce Channel 21 800
    25 27 Jeannie - Danny Williams 26 19 760
    NEW 28 Fanlight Fanny - Clinton Ford 22 720
    29 29 Never Goodbye - Karl Denver 25 480
    16 30 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 15 480
    * This week the split sides would have affected NME's averaged chart positionso an average was taken from the other 4 charts giving an average of 1.25 to Elvis Presley and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position for both sides together.
    * This was the last week that Record Mirror compiled its own chart. From 24th March it will use RR chart.
    Rock-A-Hula Baby - Elvis Presley 8
    Brazilian Love Song - Nat King Cole 27 320
    I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 21 300
    Listen To Me - Buddy Holly 28 240
    Tonight - Shirley Bassey 23 240
    Run To Him - Bobby Vee 25 180
    Duke Of Earl - Gene Chandler 29 160
    Pianissimo - Ken Dodd 26 150
    The Comancheros - Lonnie Donegan 28 90
    Please Don't Ask About Barbara - Bobby Vee 29 60
    Lessons In Love - The Allisons 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    And again your layout demonstrates 'at a glance' what the number one should be with the other charts showing 1111 in the first week, and only Disc slightly differing in the second week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Mystified why the BBC used the 'average of the others' principle for EPs but not split sides.
    Yeah they just took the higher of the two sides and used that ignoring the fact that if the two sides were close enough in NME chart position then that must impact on an overall position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The EMI chart also separated sides, as of course did Billboard, so I suppose there is an argument for doing so.

    With a composite chart, however, you really need to go one way or the other. And as NME are the odd one out it is a no-brainer which way to go here.

    Mystified why the BBC used the 'average of the others' principle for EPs but not split sides.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X