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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Splodj
    replied
    I was coming round to thinking that the only way to explain the RR lag was that they had a survey week-ending Friday. But if that was the case it meant Love Me Do charted in RR on sales of only 1 day - assuming it was not available prior to the release date.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    A record in the lower ranges for a long time can sell a lot. Love Me Do was 18 weeks in the RR Top 50 and I suspect would have spent a similar length in an NME 50 if they'd had one. For all we know it was lurking just under their 30 at this time.
    Also, Love Me Do was 17 weeks in the Melody Maker Top 50. Peaking at #21 for 2 weeks. Too bad the BBC didn't cut them some slack, especially being a new artist and all. Interesting that on 19 Jan 63, Please Please Me debuted at #47 on MM, when Love Me Do at #26 began its descent.

    Love Me Do's tracking on MM starting 27 Oct 62: 48 - 40 - 30 - 28 - 26 - 26 - 24 - 24 - 22 - no regular MM chart (the year's Top 30 instead) - 21 - 21 - 26 - 34 - 37 - 41 - 43

    So a good amount of staying power, at a lower lever. FYI, Love Me Do peaked at #24 on Disc. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think it's possible. It is known both NME and Disc accepted orders for chart compilation and this appears to be borne out here as both charts have Elvis debuting in the Top Ten. This is a classic example of what I've mentioned before, that NME and Disc are similar, and MM and RR are similar.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    16 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley

    No. 5 in NME but only no. 28 in MM.
    Is this due to advance orders?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Incredibly the NME still does not credit The Beatles on their chart for yet another week.

    In comes Brenda Lee's Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree. Who would have thought back in 1962 that this record would still be loved and as popular today and a perennial chart entry every Christmas .

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 1st 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 1st 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 1 1 1 1 1 8100
    2 2 Let's Dance - Chris Montez 2 2 2 2 4 7770
    3 3 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon 3 3 3 3 2 7590
    5 4 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 4 4 5 4 3 7210
    4 5 Telstar - The Tornados 6 7 4 5 9 6850
    8 6 Devil Woman - Marty Robbins 5 6 7 6 5 6670
    13 7 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 8 8 6 10 8 6330
    12 8 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 7 8 9 8 6 6160
    7 9 Sherry - The Four Seasons 10 11 8 11 13 5670
    6 10 Venus In Blue Jeans - Mark Wynter 9 12 10 9 7 5650
    10 11 No One Can Make My Sunshine Smile - The Everly Brothers 11 10 11 12 11 5430
    9 12 The Loco-Motion - Little Eva 12 14 13 14 10 4820
    11 13 Ramblin' Rose - Nat King Cole 13 16 14 13 12 4540
    17 14 The 'James Bond' Theme - John Barry 14 15 12 17 16 4520
    16 15 Oh Lonesome Me - Craig Douglas 16 17 15 20 15 3910
    NEW 16 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 15 5 28 7 26 3760
    21 17 A Forever Kind Of Love - Bobby Vee 17= 12 24 16 25 3220
    19 18 Must Be Madison - Joe Loss 20 20 17 21 24 3130
    18 19 Love Me Tender - Richard Chamberlain 17= 22 19 19 17 3060
    25 20 The Main Attraction - Pat Boone 19 17 21 26 14 2980
    15 21 It Might As Well Rain Until September - Carole King 21 25 18 22 18 2750
    14 22 Sheila - Tommy Roe 22 28 16 23 22 2560
    20 23 Because Of Love - Billy Fury 25 21 20 24 2360
    27 24 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 23 24 25 15 27 2140
    30 25 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 24 19 27 28 20 1880
    23 26 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 26= 30 22 19 1430
    22 27 What Now My Love - Shirley Bassey 26= 23 25 23 1420
    NEW 28 Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree - Brenda Lee 28 23 18 30 1320
    26 29 Love Me Do - The Beatles 29 26 27 21 1050
    NEW 30 Susie Darlin' - Tommy Roe 30 26 400
    X Heartaches - Patsy Cline 27 320
    28 Lonely - Mr. Acker Bilk 29 220
    X James (Hold The Ladder Steady) - Carol Deene 29 160
    29 Next Door To An Angel - Neil Sedaka 30 30 130
    24 You Don't Know Me - Ray Charles 30 110
    B We're Gonna Go Fishin' - Hank Locklin 29 100
    X Warmed Over Kisses - Brian Hyland 28 90
    X My Love And Devotion - Matt Monro 29 60

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    A record in the lower ranges for a long time can sell a lot. Love Me Do was 18 weeks in the RR Top 50 and I suspect would have spent a similar length in an NME 50 if they'd had one. For all we know it was lurking just under their 30 at this time.

    I think the first really great Beatles tracks were Please Please Me, I Saw Her Standing There and Twist & Shout. The EP of the latter was the 5th biggest selling record of 1963 but has been airbrushed from 'official' chart history.

    Martin couldn't have released it as a single because of the Beatles self-composition desire. In any case there wasn't really a gap for it as the hits started coming so fast that intended A-sides were repeatedly trumped by better songs.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalweb View Post
    Sorry to be sacrilegious but IMO 'Love Me Do' isn't a particularly strong single and quite lucky to get as high as it did.....
    I think it was an average single certainly by what was to come, Please Please Me was an improvement but for me, From Me To You, started the brilliant streak that went on and on as they got better and better.

    My biggest disappointment was in 1970 when EMI, or Apple, or The Beatles themselves, refused to release The Long And Winding Road as a single in the UK. I thought it was, and is, a stunning song and would have been a fitting final UK #1 for The Fab Four.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Sorry to be sacrilegious but IMO 'Love Me Do' isn't a particularly strong single and quite lucky to get as high as it did.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Sales for Beatles Love me do were originally 116,227 copies, so it should have been much higher in the NME chart than just one week at number 27.
    It charted a few weeks ago and then vanished, never to be seen again (until 1982). Could it have been excluded? Or perhaps it just never sold enough in NME's chart shops to rechart back in 1962.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Sales for Beatles Love me do were originally 116,227 copies, so it should have been much higher in the NME chart than just one week at number 27.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    There is always a tendency to want artists that one admires to perform well in the charts, but the truth about Love Me Do is that RR was an outlier in placing it as high as 17. I believe it peaked at 24 in the BBC one and therefore not played or even mentioned on POTP as it never made the 20. Ironic really because the Beatles first record getting to 17 is one of the most widely quoted chart 'facts'.
    And that just shows how the difference between a chart counting sales and a chart based on points is highly important. For in the Real Chart Love Me Do made number four. If you want proof of how inaccurate a point based chart can be all you have to do is look at the first BMRB chart using sales rather than points and compare that with the same week points based charts. For you find that the number one on the first BMRB chart was unique to it and many of the others had the same record outside the top three. No wonder that Melody Maker were defending their chart a few weeks later!
    Of course they ALL had the record top the following week, but that doesn't matter. Melody Maker even had records that were not even in the BMRB top 50 or the NME's chart either! And the argument about having more shops on the panel (that Brian uses) doesn't wash, since it can put record in these charts that shouldn't be in the top 30 and keep others out.
    As a matter of interest I had a look yesterday at the 45 Cat site and put in the highest owns for the months of October and November 1962 (UK only). Even taking out the Embassy records, there's a hell of a lot of 45 that have 20+ that did not go near the charts of the day. And when you take into account the results are limited to 50 cutting off around 17 then it says something. For example just now I picked a record at random which has 30 on it and it didn't chart!
    Not some obscure record but:
    Sandy Nelson …And Then There Were Drums

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    There is always a tendency to want artists that one admires to perform well in the charts, but the truth about Love Me Do is that RR was an outlier in placing it as high as 17. I believe it peaked at 24 in the BBC one and therefore not played or even mentioned on POTP as it never made the 20. Ironic really because the Beatles first record getting to 17 is one of the most widely quoted chart 'facts'.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Beatles slowly climb the chart. At this time nobody is paying much attention to them, surprisingly, neither is NME usually out in front but for the second consecutive week fails to chart The Beatles. Shame on them !

    Neil Sedaka charts too with another of his mini pop masterpieces. All together now .. Do do do, doobie bop bop bop, Oh do bop she don don
    ​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 24th 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 24th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 1 1 1 1 1 8100
    2 2 Let's Dance - Chris Montez 2 2 2 2 2 7830
    4 3 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon 3 3 3 3 3 7560
    3 4 Telstar - The Tornados 5 5 4 5 4 7160
    7 5 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 4 4 5 4 5 7150
    5 6 Venus In Blue Jeans - Mark Wynter 6 7 6 8 6 6570
    8 7 Sherry - The Four Seasons 7 8 7 6 8 6420
    10 8 Devil Woman - Marty Robbins 8 6 8 7 9 6390
    6 9 The Loco-Motion - Little Eva 9 10 9 9 7 5920
    13 10 No One Can Make My Sunshine Smile - The Everly Brothers 10 9 10 10 13 5660
    9 11 Ramblin' Rose - Nat King Cole 11 12 11 12 11 5270
    17 12 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 12 11 16 11 10 4880
    14 13 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 13 13 14 13 15 4690
    11 14 Sheila - Tommy Roe 14 17 12 14 14 4570
    12 15 It Might As Well Rain Until September - Carole King 15 18 13 16 12 4340
    15 16 Oh Lonesome Me - Craig Douglas 16 14 17 15 16 4150
    19 17 The 'James Bond' Theme - John Barry 18 23 15 19 19 3360
    23 18 Love Me Tender - Richard Chamberlain 17 15 22 18 18 3310
    22 19 Must Be Madison - Joe Loss 19 20 21 17 22 2950
    21 20 Because Of Love - Billy Fury 20 19 20 23 24 2780
    NEW 21 A Forever Kind Of Love - Bobby Vee 23 16 25 22 29 2370
    16 22 What Now My Love - Shirley Bassey 21= 18 20 20 2310
    18 23 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 21= 19 21 17 2240
    20 24 You Don't Know Me - Ray Charles 24 23 24 21 1530
    28 25 The Main Attraction - Pat Boone 25 27 27 25 27 1180
    29 26 Love Me Do - The Beatles 26 26 27 23 990
    30 27 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 27 22 30 28 980
    26 28 Lonely - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 24 28 860
    NEW 29 Next Door To An Angel - Neil Sedaka 29 24 26 810
    RE 30 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 28 25 25 660
    She Taught Me How To yodel - Frank Ifield 21
    24 She's Not You - Elvis Presley 28 26 480
    25 Kid Galahad (EP) - Elvis Presley 26 30 450
    B Can Can '62 - Peter Jay and The Jaywalkers 28 240
    X Warmed Over Kisses - Brian Hyland 29 220
    B Susie Darlin' - Tommy Roe 29 160
    X Heartaches - Patsy Cline 29 100
    X James (Hold The Ladder Steady) - Carol Deene 30 80
    27 Send Me The Pillow That You Dream On - Johnny Tillotson 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah it did just 11 places then where it should be at this point.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    But it wasn't in the NME Top 30!
    That's the beauty of an averaged chart. It filters out any individual outsider chart. The Ultimate got it right lol

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Also 100 Greatest 50s & 60s Hits (Amazon Edition) by Various artists on Amazon Music - Amazon.co.uk for 7.99. Each track can be downloaded for 69p.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post

    There is also 60s Hits - The Ultimate Collection (250 Original Recordings) by Various artists on Amazon Music - Amazon.co.uk for 5.49 on Amazon. (Each track can be downloaded for 79p). It lasts 10 hours 28 mins and is currently number 42 on Amazon Top 100 best sellers. It has a picture of The Beatles on the front cover and includes Love me do/P.S. I love you.

    So 250 tracks for 5.49 is only 2.2p per track - an outstanding bargain.
    Good find. It might be part of the same series as all the tracks appear (on first glance) to be from 1960 to 1962 although the label name is different.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    The seem to be the only two albums available in this "250 Hits" series. Presumably the extension of copyright put a halt to any future plans.
    There is also 60s Hits - The Ultimate Collection (250 Original Recordings) by Various artists on Amazon Music - Amazon.co.uk for 5.49 on Amazon. (Each track can be downloaded for 79p). It lasts 10 hours 28 mins and is currently number 42 on Amazon Top 100 best sellers. It has a picture of The Beatles on the front cover and includes Love me do/P.S. I love you.

    So 250 tracks for 5.49 is only 2.2p per track - an outstanding bargain.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    But it wasn't in the NME Top 30!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    .. and here they come, history in the making as The Beatles make their debut on the chart. An unsuspecting music industry carried on regardless unaware of what was about to be unleashed upon them. Oh 'yeah yeah yeah', bring it on !

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 17th 1962

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 17th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel -Frank Ifield 1 1 1 1 1 8100
    3 2 Let's Dance - Chris Montez 2 2 2 2 2 7830
    2 3 Telstar - The Tornados 3 3 3 3 4 7530
    5 4 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon 4 3 4 4 3 7400
    6 5 Venus In Blue Jeans - Mark Wynter 5 5 5 5 5 7020
    4 6 The Loco-Motion - Little Eva 6 8 6 6 7 6560
    12 7 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 7 6 8 8 6 6430
    7 8 Sherry - The Four Seasons 8 7 7 7 9 6420
    8 9 Ramblin' Rose - Nat King Cole 9 10 9 10 8 5840
    11 10 Devil Woman - Marty Robbins 10 9 11 9 12 5630
    10 11 Sheila - Tommy Roe 11 13 10 12 10 5330
    9 12 It Might As Well Rain Until September - Carole King 12 12 12 11 11 5210
    14 13 No One Can Make My Sunshine Smile - The Everly Brothers 13 11 13 13 14 4990
    21 14 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 14 19 16 17 13 3850
    18 15 Oh Lonesome Me - Craig Douglas 15 15 18 16 19 3820
    13 16 What Now My Love - Shirley Bassey 16 25 14 14 16 3650
    26 17 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 17 14 23 15 18 3430
    17 18 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 18 26 15 19 15 3240
    22 19 The 'James Bond' Theme - John Barry 19 20 17 21 21 3220
    15 20 You Don't Know Me - Ray Charles 20 23 19 20 17 2930
    20 21 Because Of Love - Billy Fury 22 23 20 18 24 2710
    28 22 Must Be Madison - Joe Loss 21 18 24 22 20 2590
    NEW 23 Love Me Tender - Richard Chamberlain 23 16 25 24 23 2450
    16 24 She's Not You - Elvis Presley 24 28 21 23 22 2010
    24 25 Kid Galahad (EP) - Elvis Presley 25 17 26 1370
    19 26 Lonely - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 22 28 25 1320
    25 27 Send Me The Pillow That You Dream On - Johnny Tillotson 26 26 25 28 940
    NEW 28 The Main Attraction - Pat Boone 27= 21 800
    NEW 29 Love Me Do - The Beatles 29 28 27 29 590
    NEW 30 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 27= 27 29 27 540
    She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 22
    23 It'll Be Me - Cliff Richard 27 440
    The Pay-Off - Kenny Ball 30 26 260
    X Warmed Over Kisses - Brian Hyland 29 30 250
    B Can Can '62 - Peter Jay and The Jaywalkers 29 30 210
    30 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 29 160
    X Limbo Rock - Chubby Checker 29 160
    27 It Started All Over Again - Brenda Lee
    29 Don't That Beat All - Adam Faith

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Those are good buys Robbie. Yeah as with most years 61 and 62 had lots of stuff I came to like too, and before then also I should say.

    However my music awareness and awakening happened in 1963 , gradually, then took off with She Loves You by The Beatles. I can actually still remember the thrill it gave me when I first heard it. I got a Dansette record player for Christmas that year and a selection of records from the top twenty around that time, She Loves You among them of course and the Twist And Shout EP. Then with money I got at Christmas I bought I Want To Hold Your Hand. Magical Times

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I keep seeing so many great singles in the 1962 charts that I've just bought a mighty 250 track download called "1962 - 250 Hits". The album was released in 2012 just prior to the extension of copyright on sound recordings not yet in the public domain from 50 years to 70 years. The album is available as a download and is probably still available at amazon as the label which released the album has long ceased trading.

    For 7.99 this is a bargain

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    There is a 1961 equivalent, also 250 tracks, which has far too many duds for me but even so, I've just bought it...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    The seem to be the only two albums available in this "250 Hits" series. Presumably the extension of copyright put a halt to any future plans.

    Leave a comment:

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