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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    The TOTP appearance on Thursday 12 February wouldn't have any effect on the chart until the following week (chart dated 21/02/70). The record had featured on TOTP 2 weeks earlier (29/01/70) and the following week the record moved 29-15.
    True but the sales would have continued after the two days of sales Friday and Saturday on the week commencing 1 Feb date (I hate the week ending system it just messes with time). If the other charts were not responding to that it shows how wrong they were. And of course TOTP tended to miss a week to see what effect the show had on the chart, due to the delay in calculations.

    Mr Tibbs the Lee Marvin track was a double AA sided single. So the Credit should also be Clint Eastwood - I Talk to The Trees added to it.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
      Tony Burrows is already singing on #1 and #23 but next week a third record will appear featuring him singing on that too. I gotta own up to loving all three
      He was becoming quite a regular on Top Of The Pops with two appearances a week at one stage. Legend has it the one week in early 1970 the BBC called him into the Top Of The Pops office to tell him he was effectively banned from the programme as it was starting to look suspicious that he was appearing each week under a variety of guises! I don't know how true that was though.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
        When 'Lets Work Together' raced up the chart it would have been put on high rotation at Radio 1 which had huge audiences then.
        It was certainly on high rotation with me at the time
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

        Comment


        • Greetings Pop Pickers

          Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 21st 1970

          Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 21st 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
          1 1 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 1 1 1 17250
          9 2 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 2 3 2 16425
          2 3 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 3 2 3 16350
          14 4 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 4 5 4 15275
          6 5 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 5 4 6 15075
          3 6 The Witch's Promise / Teacher - Jethro Tull 6 6 8 14125
          22 7 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 8 8 5 13600
          11 8 Venus - Shocking Blue 7 7 9 13550
          5 9 Come And Get It - Badfinger 9 10 13 11900
          7 10 I'm A Man - Chicago 11 9 14 11625
          8 11 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 10 13 10 11325
          23 12 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 11 14 11 10750
          4 13 Reflections Of My Life - The Marmalade 13 11 15 10600
          NEW 14 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 17 17 7 9300
          12 15 I Can't Get Next To You - The Temptations 14 16 17 8900
          18 16 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins 19 12 20 8525
          29 17 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 16 21 12 7875
          17 18 Hitchin' A Ride - Vanity Fare 18 18 16 7725
          13 19 Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 21 19 18 6625
          10 20 Friends - Arrival 20 15 28 6575
          NEW 21 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 15 24 19 6450
          21 22 Wedding Bell Blues - The Fifth Dimension 21 20 21 6000
          15 23 All I Have To Do Is Dream - Bobbie Gentry and Glen Campbell 24 22 22 4775
          16 24 Someday We'll Be Together - Diana Ross and The Supremes 26 23 29 3250
          28 25 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 28 25 24 2975
          NEW 26 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 25 28 27 2450
          20 27 Tracy - The Cuff Links 26 23 2250
          25 28 Just A Little Misunderstanding - The Contours 23 29 2100
          19 29 Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley 29 27 30 1525
          NEW 30 Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival 27 30 1050
          B Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 30 26 825
          Sugar Sugar - The Archies 25 750
          24 Good Old Rock'n' Roll - The Dave Clark Five
          26 Let It All Hang Out - Jonathan King
          27 The Liquidator - Harry J All Stars
          30 Melting Pot - Blue Mink
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

          Comment


          • Four new entries this week and every one a gem. I bought all four but had bought Steam months before it had charted
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

            Comment


            • With 'Venus' and 'Na Na etc' there are two future Bananarama hit cover versions in the chart at the moment - on w/e 7 Mar they will be adjacent at #12 and #13 on BMRB!

              Comment


              • A track in 1970 that I thought might have been a hit, had it been released as a single, was 'Beware of young girls' by Dory Previn.

                Comment


                • Graham76man
                  Graham76man commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Dory could have had hits in 1973 and 1974 with King Kong and Cold Water Canyon, but it's unlike they got higher than 65 if they enter the chart.

              • Edison Lighthouse by that point had become a million seller, the first of the year.
                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                Comment


                • Hmm not heard that one. Must take a listen
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • There's a bit of an interesting tale about the Edison track. It was written by Tony Macaulay, Barry Mason. However in 1983 Barry Mason's ex-wife Sylvan Whittingham claimed she was Mason's uncredited co-lyricist on a number of songs, among them "Love Grows". The case was settled out of court on 4 June 1985. Whittingham has never been registered as "Love Grows"' co-writer by the song's publishers, but is legally entitled to claim a writing credit. This has never been disputed by Mason & Macaulay.
                    Tony Burrows and Barry Mason's wife, Sylvan Whittingham, found a group called Greenfield Hammer, who a week later appeared on Top of the Pops as 'Edison Lighthouse' to mime to Love Grows. Tony also appeared singing lead for The Brotherhood of Man ("United We Stand") or White Plains ("My Baby Loves Lovin'"), who also had hits during that same month-long stretch at number one. The lead vocalist on the record My Baby Loves Lovin is still widely debated to this day. It has been believed for many years that session singer Tony Burrows was the lead singer on the track, however, various sources claim that band member Ricky Wolff was the lead singer. But obviously Tony would have mimed it on TOTP.
                    That track itself was written by Roger Cook and Roger Greenaway and they became the main songwriters of the year, turning out hit records like Stock Aitken Waterman many years later.

                    Tony Macaulay's best-known songs he also wrote include "Baby Now That I've Found You" and "Build Me Up Buttercup" with The Foundations, "(Last Night) I Didn't Get to Sleep at All," and "Don't Give Up on Us". Not surprisingly he has won the British Academy of Songwriters, Composers and Authors Award twice as 'Songwriter of the Year' in 1970 and 1977.
                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                    Comment


                    • I got a book today about the history of the NME. It does give some more information about the charts, but doesn't answer many questions I have. However one interesting thing did emerge. In the early days of the compilation of the charts each member of the staff had to phone one of the shops up that were taking part in the chart compilation to get the chart done!
                      Also though most sources say it was Percy Dickins who started the chart, the book makes it clear that it was the paper's owner Maurice Kinn who had the vision to see a sales chart was the way to go. The book says Kinn ORDERED Dickins to phone the shops up.
                      Later on in the book it mentions that by 1967 Fiona Foulgar and a team of six people were contacting 150 Shops by phone.
                      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                      Comment


                      • Greetings Pop Pickers

                        Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 28th1970

                        Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 28th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
                        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
                        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                        4 1 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 1 1 4 16875
                        7 2 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 2 2 2 16675
                        1 3 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 3 4 1 16100
                        2 4 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 4 3 3 15900
                        14 5 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 5 6 5 14700
                        3 6 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 6 5 6 14625
                        5 7 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 7 7 7 13800
                        8 8 Venus - Shocking Blue 9 8 8 13025
                        12 9 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 8 9 9 12850
                        21 10 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 10 11 10 11825
                        6 11 The Witch's Promise / Teacher - Jethro Tull 11 10 12 11625
                        17 12 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 12 12 11 11050
                        16 13 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins 16 13 14 9625
                        11 14 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 13 16 15 9350
                        10 15 I'm A Man - Chicago 15 14 18 9075
                        9 16 Come And Get It - Badfinger 14 15 19 8900
                        15 17 I Can't Get Next To You - The Temptations 21 17 17 7250
                        26 18 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 19 18 21 6900
                        25 19 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 17 19 23 6800
                        NEW 20 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 23 20 13 6600
                        18 21 Hitchin' A Ride - Vanity Fare 18 21 22 6225
                        NEW 22 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 20 23 16 6075
                        13 23 Reflections Of My Life - The Marmalade 22 22 26 4675
                        22 24 Wedding Bell Blues - The Fifth Dimension 25 24 25 3700
                        19 25 Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 27 27 20 3175
                        30 26 Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival 26 26 2250
                        NEW 27 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 23 30 1725
                        20 28 Friends - Arrival 25 1500
                        27 29 Tracy - The Cuff Links 29 24 1375
                        NEW 30 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 30 28 28 1325
                        28 Just A Little Misunderstanding - The Contours 28 30 850
                        B That Same Old Feeling - Pickettwitch 27 500
                        24 Someday We'll Be Together - Diana Ross and The Supremes 29 400
                        Sugar Sugar - The Archies 29 250
                        23 All I Have To Do Is Dream - Bobbie Gentry and Glen Campbell
                        29 Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley
                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                        Comment


                        • One of the biggest offences of the time against good music takes place this week. I will never comprehend how Sacha Distel charted successfully with his horrendous version of 'Raindrops' while the original and totally sublime version by B. J. Thomas was totally ignored despite an appearance on TOTP. The Sacha Distel version was just plain awful. Sometimes their just ain't no justice.
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • [​​​​QUOTE=Graham76man;n10672333]by 1967 Fiona Foulgar and a team of six people were contacting 150 Shops by phone.[/QUOTE]

                            This tallies with what Alan Smith and others have said, that NME brought back the process in-house in 1963 with a team of 6 led by Fiona phoning about 25 shops each on Mondays

                            MM had sheet music charts before NME. And before either of them or Luxembourg, during WW2, the BBC broadcast AFNs 'Hit Parade' show.

                            ​​​​​​------

                            In comes 'Bridge over troubled water'. This was number one in the year-end MM/Disc chart I mentioned, by dint of it spending most weeks on the weekly chart.

                            Comment


                            • 'I Want You Back' gets the top spot on UAC from the dreadful 'Wand'rin' Star'. BMRB are out of kilter here with Edison Lighthouse still at the top and the Jackson 5 still at #4. Unfortunately Lee Marvin is in the ascendancy and will be the next number 1 on , presume, all three charts. Who was buying 'Wand'rin' Star'? Was it viewed as a novelty, joke-type, song?

                              Comment


                              • 'I want you back' is an example of the NME and MM putting a different number one than BMRB at the top for a week as sales of the strong number one fade. I think it is explained by the levelling effect of the points system which produced many more number ones than the sales system.

                                You could argue that the points system was superior because it was more egalitarian - giving more records a chance at number one. But they claimed to be sales charts, just using points as a cost-effective way of producing a chart that reflected sales.

                                We know that typically a number one sells much more than the runner up and that one much more than the next and so on. I wonder if this sales pattern was known at the time and therefore how it was out of kilter with one point differences.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                  'I want you back' is an example of the NME and MM putting a different number one than BMRB at the top for a week as sales of the strong number one fade. I think it is explained by the levelling effect of the points system which produced many more number ones than the sales system.
                                  We know that typically a number one sells much more than the runner up and that one much more than the next and so on. I wonder if this sales pattern was known at the time and therefore how it was out of kilter with one point differences.
                                  The Real Chart has the full sales and on the 1 March (week ending 7) Lee and Clint had dropped 1,000 sales at 159K and the Jackson's were only 155K only four thousand behind the number one, so that wasn't the case here.
                                  The points system doesn't take into account how many records each store sells. You only need one store to have a record top over the other and that will be number one. Having said that the above chart was way out, with the Jacksons at five on 100K and Lee and Clint at the top on 160K.
                                  The most likely reason the Jackson's didn't get to the top was they were not in the UK performing the record. Most of the time TOTP used the dancing to the disc option with either the crowd or the shows dancers for the Jackson. While they had the film for Lee. Total sales for Lee and Clint 1 million 674 thousand. The Jacksons 897 thousand.

                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                  Comment


                                  • Clint song was just as good. I used to sing "I talk to the trees, but they don't listen to me. I'm not surprised they think I'm bloody daft".
                                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                      [​​​​QUOTE

                                      MM had sheet music charts before NME. And before either of them or Luxembourg, during WW2, the BBC broadcast AFNs 'Hit Parade' show.
                                      It had been thought that The Sheet Music chart only started in July 1946 with a weekly list of an alphabetical chart before moving later to a numbered chart at the end of May 1947.

                                      However it was later discovered that The Sheet Music Charts actually commenced as a proper numbered chart way back in 30th December 1939. I'm Sending A Letter To Santa Claus was the first #1. Due to the war years weekly charts were often disrupted with many weeks not compiled. 25 weekly charts were compiled throughout 1940, 15 for 1941, 30 for 1942, 35 for 1943, a scant 12 for 1944, 32 for 1945, then completely settled down after the war by producing a weekly Top 20 from 4th January 1946. The first #1 of 1946 being I'm In Love With Two Sweethearts.

                                      I have all the weekly Sheet Music Charts right up to its published demise in February 1965 (although it was apparently compiled until 1985 by the MPA but not published). More glorious chart history showing what we were listening to and buying throughout the forties and early fifties before record charts started to identify what versions of songs were the most popular.

                                      That said Colin Morgan and Brian Henson authors of 'First Hits' were of the view that it was towards the end of 1955 before record charts were finally recognised as being more influential than The Sheet Music Chart.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • ^
                                        the MPA compiled Sheet Music Charts were published in Music Week in 1978 and possibly the years either side of it too.

                                        I contacted MPA a number of years ago to find out if they still held all the charts until 1985 and was informed that they no longer did. I did wonder if perhaps there was an archive of them somewhere in the MPA library (assuming they have one) that some of the staff weren't aware of.

                                        Example: Sheet Music Top 20 - Music Week 02/09/78

                                        Sheet Music Top 20 - 020978.PNG



                                        Comment


                                        • ^

                                          I copied down all the 70s sheet music charts in the Music Week issues on worldradiohistory.com recently and will post in a separate thread soon....

                                          Comment


                                          • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                            Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 7th1970

                                            Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders'

                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 7th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total NME
                                            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points Inverse
                                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored Points
                                            2 1 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 1 1 1 17250 30
                                            1 2 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 2 2 2 16675 29
                                            4 3 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 3 3 3 16100 28
                                            3 4 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 4 5 4 15275 27
                                            5 5 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 5 4 5 15200 26
                                            6 6 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 7 6 6 14175 24
                                            9 7 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 8 7 9 13350 23
                                            7 8 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 9 8 10 12775 22
                                            10 9 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 6 10 11 12750 25
                                            8 10 Venus - Shocking Blue 10 9 12 12075 21
                                            20 11 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 11 11 7 12000 20
                                            12 12 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 12 12 8 11425 19
                                            18 13 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 14 13 13 10150 17
                                            13 14 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins 15 14 17 9200 16
                                            22 15 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 13 17 15 9100 18
                                            19 16 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 17 15 14 8925 14
                                            11 17 The Witch's Promise / Teacher - Jethro Tull 16 16 21 8000 15
                                            NEW 18 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettwitch 18 18 19 7350 13
                                            27 19 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 18 20 18 6975 13
                                            14 20 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 20 19 20 6575 11
                                            30 21 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 22 22 16 5925 9
                                            16 22 Come And Get It - Badfinger 21 23 22 5125 10
                                            15 23 I'm A Man - Chicago 23 21 23 5100 8
                                            17 24 I Can't Get Next To You - The Temptations 26 24 2750 5
                                            26 25 Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival 27 25 2300 4
                                            21 26 Hitchin' A Ride - Vanity Fare 27 26 1625 0
                                            NEW 27 Sympathy - Rare Bird 28 28 29 1600 3
                                            NEW 28 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 24 1400 7
                                            NEW 29 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 26 1250 0
                                            RE 30 Just A Little Misunderstanding - The Contours 25 1200 6
                                            25 Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 24 875 0
                                            B Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 25 750 0
                                            B Till - Dorothy Squires 29 500 0
                                            All I Have To Do Is Dream - Bobbie Gentry and Glen Cambell 27 500 0
                                            B You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 29 400 2
                                            B Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 28 375 0
                                            24 Wedding Bell Blues - The Fifth Dimension 30 250 0
                                            X Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams 30 250 0
                                            23 Reflections Of My Life - The Marmalade 30 200 1
                                            My Way - Frank Sinatra 30 125 0
                                            28 Friends - Arrival
                                            29 Tracy - The Cuff Links
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • The BBC genome site lists a TV programme in 1952 called 'Hit Parade' and (further digging reveals) it featured a chart 10 months before the NME started their record one. This BBC chart was based on record sales, sheet music sales and requests.

                                              https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/4d66bf70...33a054f7392248

                                              Comment


                                              • It's just amazing that My Way spent some much time in the charts of BMRB and is still selling and yet I don't believe is a million seller.
                                                I have clocked it in the Real Chart at a million just for 1970! I remember placing it in the charts after 1970 and had to stop when it went over 100 solid weeks, due to the fact I had not allowed column space for more than two figures! It would have taken me ages to redo each page!

                                                I consider the Cliff and Hank (correct title by the way) record to be the first environmental song to make the charts, beating Big Yellow Taxi.
                                                It's about the impact of the car. When you consider that two thirds of L. A. is devoted to the car, you can understand the line "Won't it be great when the whole of the land becomes one big motorway".
                                                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                                Comment


                                                • ^

                                                  Could make a case for 'Shapes Of Things' by The Yardbirds...

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