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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    The BBC genome site lists a TV programme in 1952 called 'Hit Parade' and (further digging reveals) it featured a chart 10 months before the NME started their record one. This BBC chart was based on record sales, sheet music sales and requests.

    https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/4d66bf70...33a054f7392248
    I wonder if this was similar to the American Your Hit Parade.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Metalweb View Post
      ^

      Could make a case for 'Shapes Of Things' by The Yardbirds...
      Or 'What have they done to the rain' by The Searchers in 64.

      Comment


      • If BBC makes available charts through the genome project prior to the pre chart book then this may prove interesting. For US pop music we have rankings back to 1900 while UK as I remember starts at 1940. Another bonus info in this lovely thread.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kjell View Post
          If BBC makes available charts through the genome project prior to the pre chart book then this may prove interesting. For US pop music we have rankings back to 1900 while UK as I remember starts at 1940. Another bonus info in this lovely thread.
          I don't believe they are charts at all. Just a collection of songs that would have been in the sheet music charts at the time. The BBC wasn't interested in doing the lists of hit songs. If you look at the performers they would have been singing songs made famous by other people. That way any original performer or the way they performed it at the time that could be considered not suitable, would be eliminated. They idea of charts at that time was just too American for the BBC.
          Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

          Comment


          • Prior to 1940 it was sheet music that really sold and not records. Even a ranking of popular tunes is interesting when one goes that far back in time.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kjell View Post
              Prior to 1940 it was sheet music that really sold and not records. Even a ranking of popular tunes is interesting when one goes that far back in time.
              I actually find the sheet music era of the forties and early fifties both interesting and enjoyable, even although I wasn't around at the time. The variety of the big bands, crooners, and novelty songs of the era provided a spectrum of music that's actually missing today.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • Greetings Pop Pickers

                Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 14th1970

                Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 14th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                1 1 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 1 1 1 17250
                2 2 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 2 2 4 16425
                11 3 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 3 3 3 16100
                3 4 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 4 4 7 15150
                5 5 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 5 5 6 14825
                4 6 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 7 6 5 14300
                12 7 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 6 7 9 13750
                9 8 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 8 8 12 12725
                NEW 9 Let It Be - The Beatles 9 15 2 12025
                7 10 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 9 10 14 11775
                13 11 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 11 9 13 11750
                6 12 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 12 11 15 10800
                18 13 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 15 13 8 10575
                19 14 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 14 14 11 10150
                15 15 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 13 17 10 9725
                8 16 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 16 12 19 9250
                10 17 Venus - Shocking Blue 17 16 16 8425
                21 18 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 18 18 18 7475
                16 19 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 19 19 24 6275
                14 20 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins 20 20 23 5950
                NEW 21 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 21 23 20 5375
                29 22 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 22 22 22 5175
                NEW 23 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 22 27 17 4550
                20 24 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 21 21 3750
                27 25 Sympathy - Rare Bird 27 24 27 3050
                25 26 Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival 26 26 2250
                17 27 The Witch's Promise / Teacher - Jethro Tull 29 24 2150
                NEW 28 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 24 28 1775
                NEW 29 Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves 25 1200
                NEW 30 Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 29 25 1150
                28 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 27 29 1050
                23 I'm A Man - Chicago 28 750
                B Till - Dorothy Squires 26 625
                22 Come And Get It - Badfinger 29 500
                X Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams 30 250
                Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 30 125
                24 I Can't Get Next To You - The Temptations
                26 Hitchin' A Ride - Vanity Fare
                30 Just A Little Misunderstanding - The Contours
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • In comes 'Let it be'. To be honest, at the time I expected it would go to number one.

                  By the mid-60s sheet music in my local record shop had been reduced to a tray in the corner. From the 70s on it seemed that individual sheet music was rare but there was a fair amount of interest in books of music like 'Beatles Complete'.

                  Comment


                  • Sheet Music: The decline of the dance bands of the 1940’s and the rise of better copying methods. My dad bought the sheet music for songs on the 1950’s and 1960’s because he wanted to learn to play the Skiffle songs himself, but, again, by the 1970’s the fall in people doing that and the rise in books of music, as you say, would have reduced that significantly.

                    Let It Be: The song was excellent, but I wonder if it suffered by being an album track, as discussed with Something / Come Together. Love the fact it’s 2 on BMRB and either out or almost out of the Top 10 on the others!
                    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                    Comment




                    • 'Let It Be' was, infamously, the first single to enter at #2 and not make #1...

                      Same thing happened to 'Ballroom Blitz' by The Sweet three years later...

                      Comment


                      • Graham76man
                        Graham76man commented
                        Editing a comment
                        There was no Woolies in the BMRB chart in 1973, so you can take the Sweet failure with a pinch of salt.

                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                      By the mid-60s sheet music in my local record shop had been reduced to a tray in the corner. From the 70s on it seemed that individual sheet music was rare but there was a fair amount of interest in books of music like 'Beatles Complete'.
                      Agree. When Let It be made it's debut at #2 on BMRB I thought it was a shoe in for #1 the following week and I was amazed to see it fall back to #3 the following week especially as it was a new track and not already on an album ( I think the album came out a few weeks later ).

                      By February 1965 when the music papers stopped carrying the Sheet Music Chart I think a lot of record shops also reduced the range of it that they ordered and displayed as it had already been in gradual decline anyway since the mid fifties. The majority of teenagers in the mid sixties wanted records to listen to and play on their Dansette record players not music to play on pianos.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                        Let It Be: The song was excellent, but I wonder if it suffered by being an album track, as discussed with Something / Come Together. Love the fact it’s 2 on BMRB and either out or almost out of the Top 10 on the others!
                        The Real Chart has sales of 170K for Beatles and 165K for Lee and Clint. So it just shows you how having all the sales makes a difference. As for the other charts I think that proves they had reduced numbers down or were using a week that cut off sales, especially MM. If they haven't then its down to the store sizes with the two others treating a large London store the same as small record shop in Wales.

                        And you might be right about the album difference, Hey Dude had first week sales of 200K, so the 30K loss might be the effect of the album.

                        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                        Comment


                        • 'Let it be' single released 6th March, album not released until 8th May.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                            'Let it be' single released 6th March, album not released until 8th May.
                            Never really been into album dates. So you can blame the sales drop on the overproduction done for the album, which it would have come from, by Phil Spector. Something George Martin pointed out. Especially adding the choirs and the violins.
                            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers

                              Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 21st 1970

                              Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 21st 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                              1 1 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 1 1 1 17250
                              3 2 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 2 2 2 16675
                              9 3 Let It Be - The Beatles 3 3 3 16100
                              2 4 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 4 4 4 15525
                              13 5 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 5 5 5 14950
                              5 6 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 8 6 10 13475
                              4 7 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 6 7 12 13375
                              11 8 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 7 8 9 13300
                              14 9 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 9 9 8 12775
                              7 10 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 11 10 7 12250
                              23 11 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 9 14 6 11775
                              15 12 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 12 13 14 10425
                              8 13 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 15 12 16 9825
                              6 14 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 16 11 17 9750
                              18 15 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 13 18 13 9100
                              22 16 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 14 17 15 8900
                              10 17 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 17 15 18 8425
                              21 18 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 19 19 11 7900
                              12 19 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 18 16 19 7850
                              17 20 Venus - Shocking Blue 23 20 22 5475
                              19 21 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 22 22 21 5300
                              16 22 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 26 21 24 4375
                              RE 23 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 21 26 23 4250
                              28 24 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 20 27 26 3825
                              25 25 Sympathy - Rare Bird 24 24 27 3650
                              24 26 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 25 20 2875
                              30 27 Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 24 28 28 2525
                              20 28 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins 23 2000
                              29 29 Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves 27 800
                              NEW 30 Till - Dorothy Squires 25 750
                              B I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops 28 600
                              26 Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival 29 500
                              B I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor 29 400
                              X Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams 30 250
                              B Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy 29 250
                              B Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 30 200
                              My Way - Frank Sinatra 30 125
                              27 The Witch's Promise - Jethro Tull
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • The entire top 5 is the same for all 4 charts, still something of a rarity.

                                Comment


                                • The other side of the Creedance single was Fortunate Son, though not credited as a AA side.
                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                  Comment


                                  • Hello. Re UK sheet music charts. I was fortunate enough to be given the entire sheet music MPA print-outs from 1950 to the monthly charts up to September 1984. So if anybody wants some gaps filling in this area, I shall try and locate them in my loft......

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by membranemusic View Post
                                      Hello. Re UK sheet music charts. I was fortunate enough to be given the entire sheet music MPA print-outs from 1950 to the monthly charts up to September 1984. So if anybody wants some gaps filling in this area, I shall try and locate them in my loft......
                                      It would be lovely to have them posted here (in a new thread) if your up for doing that.
                                      http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                      Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                                        It would be lovely to have them posted here (in a new thread) if your up for doing that.
                                        I agree with Lonnie membrane. Be great to have those posted on here, I can add to those too by posting 1940 to 1949 to give the complete set.
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                          Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 28th 1970

                                          Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 28th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
                                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
                                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                                          2 1 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 1 1 1 17250
                                          1 2 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 2 2 2 16675
                                          3 3 Let It Be - The Beatles 3 3 4 15975
                                          11 4 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 4 4 3 15650
                                          5 5 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 5 5 5 14950
                                          16 6 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 6 7 6 14125
                                          8 7 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 8 6 10 13475
                                          9 8 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 7 8 9 13300
                                          4 9 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 9 9 12 12275
                                          18 10 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 13 10 8 11725
                                          10 11 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 11 12 13 11000
                                          15 12 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 10 14 11 10950
                                          7 13 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 12 13 14 10425
                                          6 14 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 15 11 15 10200
                                          12 15 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 16 15 16 8875
                                          NEW 16 Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin 14 22 7 8650
                                          13 17 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 18 16 17 8100
                                          23 18 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 17 17 18 7925
                                          14 19 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 21 19 19 6500
                                          24 20 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 19 23 20 5775
                                          17 21 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains 23 20 21 5600
                                          21 22 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 24 21 28 4275
                                          19 23 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 18 23 4250
                                          NEW 24 I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops 20 30 22 3575
                                          25 25 Sympathy - Rare Bird 25 26 27 2950
                                          NEW 26 Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum 29 25 1900
                                          NEW 27 Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 22 1800
                                          20 28 Venus - Shocking Blue 24 1750
                                          27 29 Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 30 28 25 1700
                                          NEW 30 Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy 27 29 29 1550
                                          29 Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves 26 1000
                                          22 Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin 27 1000
                                          26 Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 24 875
                                          B When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links 26 625
                                          B Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink 28 600
                                          B I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor 30 125
                                          28 Both Sides Now - Judy Collins
                                          30 Till - Dorothy Squires
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • My short lived flirt with the sheet music chart has passed so I can focus all my attention again on my main project. I'm already working my way through 56 to 59 but meantime here is the continuation of 1970.
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                              Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 4th 1970

                                              Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 4th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
                                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
                                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                                              1 1 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 1 1 1 17250
                                              4 2 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 2 2 3 16550
                                              2 3 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 4 3 4 15775
                                              16 4 Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin 3 5 2 15725
                                              6 5 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 6 4 5 15000
                                              5 6 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 5 7 6 14325
                                              3 7 Let It Be - The Beatles 7 6 7 14050
                                              7 8 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 8 8 11 12850
                                              8 9 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 9 10 10 12275
                                              10 10 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 11 9 9 12250
                                              12 11 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 10 11 8 12075
                                              9 12 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 12 12 12 10925
                                              18 13 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 13 14 14 9975
                                              11 14 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 17 13 16 9175
                                              26 15 Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum 14 18 15 8650
                                              20 16 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 15 17 18 8325
                                              24 17 I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops 16 19 17 7750
                                              NEW 18 All Kinds Of Everything - Dana 18 21 13 7350
                                              13 19 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 20 16 20 7325
                                              14 20 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band 22 15 24 6675
                                              30 21 Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy 19 23 19 5900
                                              NEW 22 Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins 21 24 21 5000
                                              17 23 United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man 25 22 26 4075
                                              15 24 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 20 23 3750
                                              NEW 25 When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links 27 26 22 3175
                                              19 26 Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse 25 27 2000
                                              NEW 27 Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink 24 30 1650
                                              RE 28 Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves 23 1600
                                              25 29 Sympathy - Rare Bird 27 1000
                                              23 30 Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary 28 29 1000
                                              27 Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 26 1000
                                              B Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder 29 29 900
                                              Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris 25 750
                                              22 Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner 30 28 625
                                              B Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival 28 600
                                              B I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor 30 200
                                              Till - Dorothy Squires 30 125
                                              21 My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains
                                              28 Venus - Shocking Blue
                                              29 Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • It's that man Tony Burrows again, in at number 22 with the ridiculously catchy 'Gimme Dat Ding'.

                                                I'm not quite sure how I've overlooked it until now but it's great to see 'Something's Burning' by Kenny Rogers in the charts. It's a great song.

                                                For all BMRB are ahead of the game with new entries, fast movers and fast fallers, the bottom 10 of their top 30 chart sometimes gets bogged down with old hits lingering on. 'Two Little Boys' and 'Elizabethan Reggae' plus 'My Way' drifting in and out of the chart. The smaller amount of chart return shops and possibly the smaller range of singles some of those shops sold are probably playing a part here.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                                  For all BMRB are ahead of the game with new entries, fast movers and fast fallers, the bottom 10 of their top 30 chart sometimes gets bogged down with old hits lingering on. 'Two Little Boys' and 'Elizabethan Reggae' plus 'My Way' drifting in and out of the chart. The smaller amount of chart return shops and possibly the smaller range of singles some of those shops sold are probably playing a part here.
                                                  I agree with this - the albums chart had a note stating that lower pos where approximate due to similar sales amounts.

                                                  I have some singles sales data (Topical has loads more) for 1973 (I know miles ahead of this week) and the chart sales give a lovely exponential like curve. On this chart the Top 13 sold over 1000, Top 25 over 500 and Top 40 over 200. Obviously, these are figures from the diaries and need to be weighted up for full sales.

                                                  UKMIX_CHartGraph.png

                                                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                                  Comment

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