The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

^

Could make a case for 'Shapes Of Things' by The Yardbirds...

Or 'What have they done to the rain' by The Searchers in 64.

[kjell]

If BBC makes available charts through the genome project prior to the pre chart book then this may prove interesting. For US pop music we have rankings back to 1900 while UK as I remember starts at 1940. Another bonus info in this lovely thread.

[Graham76man]

If BBC makes available charts through the genome project prior to the pre chart book then this may prove interesting. For US pop music we have rankings back to 1900 while UK as I remember starts at 1940. Another bonus info in this lovely thread.

I don't believe they are charts at all. Just a collection of songs that would have been in the sheet music charts at the time. The BBC wasn't interested in doing the lists of hit songs. If you look at the performers they would have been singing songs made famous by other people. That way any original performer or the way they performed it at the time that could be considered not suitable, would be eliminated. They idea of charts at that time was just too American for the BBC.

[kjell]

Prior to 1940 it was sheet music that really sold and not records. Even a ranking of popular tunes is interesting when one goes that far back in time.

[MrTibbs]

Prior to 1940 it was sheet music that really sold and not records. Even a ranking of popular tunes is interesting when one goes that far back in time.

I actually find the sheet music era of the forties and early fifties both interesting and enjoyable, even although I wasn't around at the time. The variety of the big bands, crooners, and novelty songs of the era provided a spectrum of music that's actually missing today.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 14th1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 14th 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					1	1	1	17250
2	2	I Want You Back - The Jackson Five					2	2	4	16425
11	3	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					3	3	3	16100
3	4	Let's Work Together - Canned Heat					4	4	7	15150
5	5	Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band					5	5	6	14825
4	6	Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse					7	6	5	14300
12	7	Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits					6	7	9	13750
9	8	United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man					8	8	12	12725
NEW	9	Let It Be - The Beatles					9	15	2	12025
7	10	My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains					9	10	14	11775
13	11	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam					11	9	13	11750
6	12	Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary					12	11	15	10800
18	13	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					15	13	8	10575
19	14	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					14	14	11	10150
15	15	Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel					13	17	10	9725
8	16	Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin					16	12	19	9250
10	17	Venus - Shocking Blue					17	16	16	8425
21	18	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					18	18	18	7475
16	19	Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner					19	19	24	6275
14	20	Both Sides Now - Judy Collins					20	20	23	5950
NEW	21	Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five					21	23	20	5375
29	22	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					22	22	22	5175
NEW	23	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					22	27	17	4550
20	24	Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris						21	21	3750
27	25	Sympathy - Rare Bird					27	24	27	3050
25	26	Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival					26	26		2250
17	27	The Witch's Promise / Teacher - Jethro Tull					29	24		2150
NEW	28	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					24		28	1775
NEW	29	Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves					25			1200
NEW	30	Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin					29		25	1150
28		Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					27		29	1050
23		I'm A Man - Chicago						28		750
B		Till - Dorothy Squires							26	625
22		Come And Get It - Badfinger						29		500
X		Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams						30		250
		Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition							30	125
24		I Can't Get Next To You - The Temptations
26		Hitchin' A Ride - Vanity Fare
30		Just A Little Misunderstanding - The Contours

[Splodj]

In comes 'Let it be'. To be honest, at the time I expected it would go to number one.

By the mid-60s sheet music in my local record shop had been reduced to a tray in the corner. From the 70s on it seemed that individual sheet music was rare but there was a fair amount of interest in books of music like 'Beatles Complete'.

[kingofskiffle]

Sheet Music: The decline of the dance bands of the 1940’s and the rise of better copying methods. My dad bought the sheet music for songs on the 1950’s and 1960’s because he wanted to learn to play the Skiffle songs himself, but, again, by the 1970’s the fall in people doing that and the rise in books of music, as you say, would have reduced that significantly.

Let It Be: The song was excellent, but I wonder if it suffered by being an album track, as discussed with Something / Come Together. Love the fact it’s 2 on BMRB and either out or almost out of the Top 10 on the others!

[Metalweb]

'Let It Be' was, infamously, the first single to enter at #2 and not make #1...

Same thing happened to 'Ballroom Blitz' by The Sweet three years later...

[Graham76man]

There was no Woolies in the BMRB chart in 1973, so you can take the Sweet failure with a pinch of salt.

[MrTibbs]

By the mid-60s sheet music in my local record shop had been reduced to a tray in the corner. From the 70s on it seemed that individual sheet music was rare but there was a fair amount of interest in books of music like 'Beatles Complete'.

Agree. When Let It be made it's debut at #2 on BMRB I thought it was a shoe in for #1 the following week and I was amazed to see it fall back to #3 the following week especially as it was a new track and not already on an album ( I think the album came out a few weeks later ).

By February 1965 when the music papers stopped carrying the Sheet Music Chart I think a lot of record shops also reduced the range of it that they ordered and displayed as it had already been in gradual decline anyway since the mid fifties. The majority of teenagers in the mid sixties wanted records to listen to and play on their Dansette record players not music to play on pianos.

[Graham76man]

Let It Be: The song was excellent, but I wonder if it suffered by being an album track, as discussed with Something / Come Together. Love the fact it’s 2 on BMRB and either out or almost out of the Top 10 on the others!

The Real Chart has sales of 170K for Beatles and 165K for Lee and Clint. So it just shows you how having all the sales makes a difference. As for the other charts I think that proves they had reduced numbers down or were using a week that cut off sales, especially MM. If they haven't then its down to the store sizes with the two others treating a large London store the same as small record shop in Wales.

And you might be right about the album difference, Hey Dude had first week sales of 200K, so the 30K loss might be the effect of the album.

[Splodj]

'Let it be' single released 6th March, album not released until 8th May.

[Graham76man]

'Let it be' single released 6th March, album not released until 8th May.

Never really been into album dates. So you can blame the sales drop on the overproduction done for the album, which it would have come from, by Phil Spector. Something George Martin pointed out. Especially adding the choirs and the violins.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 21st 1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 21st 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					1	1	1	17250
3	2	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					2	2	2	16675
9	3	Let It Be - The Beatles					3	3	3	16100
2	4	I Want You Back - The Jackson Five					4	4	4	15525
13	5	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					5	5	5	14950
5	6	Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band					8	6	10	13475
4	7	Let's Work Together - Canned Heat					6	7	12	13375
11	8	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam					7	8	9	13300
14	9	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					9	9	8	12775
7	10	Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits					11	10	7	12250
23	11	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					9	14	6	11775
15	12	Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel					12	13	14	10425
8	13	United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man					15	12	16	9825
6	14	Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse					16	11	17	9750
18	15	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					13	18	13	9100
22	16	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					14	17	15	8900
10	17	My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains					17	15	18	8425
21	18	Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five					19	19	11	7900
12	19	Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary					18	16	19	7850
17	20	Venus - Shocking Blue					23	20	22	5475
19	21	Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner					22	22	21	5300
16	22	Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin					26	21	24	4375
RE	23	Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					21	26	23	4250
28	24	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					20	27	26	3825
25	25	Sympathy - Rare Bird					24	24	27	3650
24	26	Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris						25	20	2875
30	27	Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin					24	28	28	2525
20	28	Both Sides Now - Judy Collins						23		2000
29	29	Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves					27			800
NEW	30	Till - Dorothy Squires							25	750
B		I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops					28			600
26		Down On The Corner - Creedence Clearwater Revival						29		500
B		I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor					29			400
X		Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams						30		250
B		Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy							29	250
B		Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations					30			200
		My Way - Frank Sinatra							30	125
27		The Witch's Promise - Jethro Tull

[Robbie]

The entire top 5 is the same for all 4 charts, still something of a rarity.

[Graham76man]

The other side of the Creedance single was Fortunate Son, though not credited as a AA side.

[membranemusic]

Hello. Re UK sheet music charts. I was fortunate enough to be given the entire sheet music MPA print-outs from 1950 to the monthly charts up to September 1984. So if anybody wants some gaps filling in this area, I shall try and locate them in my loft......

[kingofskiffle]

Hello. Re UK sheet music charts. I was fortunate enough to be given the entire sheet music MPA print-outs from 1950 to the monthly charts up to September 1984. So if anybody wants some gaps filling in this area, I shall try and locate them in my loft......

It would be lovely to have them posted here (in a new thread) if your up for doing that.

[MrTibbs]

It would be lovely to have them posted here (in a new thread) if your up for doing that.

I agree with Lonnie membrane. Be great to have those posted on here, I can add to those too by posting 1940 to 1949 to give the complete set.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 28th 1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 28th 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					1	1	1	17250
1	2	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					2	2	2	16675
3	3	Let It Be - The Beatles					3	3	4	15975
11	4	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					4	4	3	15650
5	5	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					5	5	5	14950
16	6	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					6	7	6	14125
8	7	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam					8	6	10	13475
9	8	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					7	8	9	13300
4	9	I Want You Back - The Jackson Five					9	9	12	12275
18	10	Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five					13	10	8	11725
10	11	Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits					11	12	13	11000
15	12	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					10	14	11	10950
7	13	Let's Work Together - Canned Heat					12	13	14	10425
6	14	Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band					15	11	15	10200
12	15	Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel					16	15	16	8875
NEW	16	Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin					14	22	7	8650
13	17	United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man					18	16	17	8100
23	18	Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					17	17	18	7925
14	19	Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse					21	19	19	6500
24	20	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					19	23	20	5775
17	21	My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains					23	20	21	5600
21	22	Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner					24	21	28	4275
19	23	Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary						18	23	4250
NEW	24	I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops					20	30	22	3575
25	25	Sympathy - Rare Bird					25	26	27	2950
NEW	26	Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum					29	25		1900
NEW	27	Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations					22			1800
20	28	Venus - Shocking Blue						24		1750
27	29	Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin					30	28	25	1700
NEW	30	Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy					27	29	29	1550
29		Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves					26			1000
22		Temma Harbour - Mary Hopkin						27		1000
26		Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris							24	875
B		When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links							26	625
B		Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink					28			600
B		I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor							30	125
28		Both Sides Now - Judy Collins
30		Till - Dorothy Squires

[MrTibbs]

My short lived flirt with the sheet music chart has passed so I can focus all my attention again on my main project. I'm already working my way through 56 to 59 but meantime here is the continuation of 1970.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 4th 1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 4th 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					1	1	1	17250
4	2	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					2	2	3	16550
2	3	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					4	3	4	15775
16	4	Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin					3	5	2	15725
6	5	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					6	4	5	15000
5	6	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					5	7	6	14325
3	7	Let It Be - The Beatles					7	6	7	14050
7	8	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam					8	8	11	12850
8	9	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					9	10	10	12275
10	10	Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five					11	9	9	12250
12	11	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					10	11	8	12075
9	12	I Want You Back - The Jackson Five					12	12	12	10925
18	13	Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					13	14	14	9975
11	14	Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits					17	13	16	9175
26	15	Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum					14	18	15	8650
20	16	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					15	17	18	8325
24	17	I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops					16	19	17	7750
NEW	18	All Kinds Of Everything - Dana					18	21	13	7350
13	19	Let's Work Together - Canned Heat					20	16	20	7325
14	20	Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band					22	15	24	6675
30	21	Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy					19	23	19	5900
NEW	22	Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins					21	24	21	5000
17	23	United We Stand - The Brotherhood Of Man					25	22	26	4075
15	24	Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel						20	23	3750
NEW	25	When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links					27	26	22	3175
19	26	Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) - Edison Lighthouse						25	27	2000
NEW	27	Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink					24	30		1650
RE	28	Nobody's Fool - Jim Reeves					23			1600
25	29	Sympathy - Rare Bird						27		1000
23	30	Leaving On A Jet Plane - Peter Paul and Mary						28	29	1000
27		Why (Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations					26			1000
B		Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder					29	29		900
		Two Little Boys - Rolf Harris							25	750
22		Elizabethan Reggae - Boris Gardner						30	28	625
B		Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival					28			600
B		I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor					30			200
		Till - Dorothy Squires							30	125
21		My Baby Loves Lovin' - White Plains
28		Venus - Shocking Blue
29		Joy Of Living - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin

[Robbie]

It's that man Tony Burrows again, in at number 22 with the ridiculously catchy 'Gimme Dat Ding'.

I'm not quite sure how I've overlooked it until now but it's great to see 'Something's Burning' by Kenny Rogers in the charts. It's a great song.

For all BMRB are ahead of the game with new entries, fast movers and fast fallers, the bottom 10 of their top 30 chart sometimes gets bogged down with old hits lingering on. 'Two Little Boys' and 'Elizabethan Reggae' plus 'My Way' drifting in and out of the chart. The smaller amount of chart return shops and possibly the smaller range of singles some of those shops sold are probably playing a part here.

[kingofskiffle]

For all BMRB are ahead of the game with new entries, fast movers and fast fallers, the bottom 10 of their top 30 chart sometimes gets bogged down with old hits lingering on. 'Two Little Boys' and 'Elizabethan Reggae' plus 'My Way' drifting in and out of the chart. The smaller amount of chart return shops and possibly the smaller range of singles some of those shops sold are probably playing a part here.

I agree with this - the albums chart had a note stating that lower pos where approximate due to similar sales amounts.

I have some singles sales data (Topical has loads more) for 1973 (I know miles ahead of this week) and the chart sales give a lovely exponential like curve. On this chart the Top 13 sold over 1000, Top 25 over 500 and Top 40 over 200. Obviously, these are figures from the diaries and need to be weighted up for full sales.

UKMIX_CHartGraph.png

[Graham76man]

It's that man Tony Burrows again, in at number 22 with the ridiculously catcy 'Gimme Dat Ding'.

I'm not quite sure how I've overlooked it until now but it's great to see 'Something's Burning' by Kenny Rogers in the charts. It's a great song.

For all BMRB are ahead of the game with new entries, fast movers and fast fallers, the bottom 10 of their top 30 chart sometimes gets bogged down with old hits lingering on. 'Two Little Boys' and 'Elizabethan Reggae' plus 'My Way' drifting in and out of the chart. The smaller amount of chart return shops and possibly the smaller range of singles some of those shops sold are probably playing a part here.

It was a small world for the charts in 1970. The other chap on the record was Roger Greenaway. Famous for the Cook/Greenaway song writers. The song itself was written by Albert Hammond who wrote all these:

• "Be Tender with Me Baby"
• "Don't Turn Around"
• "I Don't Wanna Live Without Your Love"
• "I Don't Wanna Lose You"
• "I Need to Be in Love"
• "It Isn't, It Wasn't, It Ain't Never Gonna Be"
• "Just Walk Away"
• "Little Arrows"
• "Lonely Is the Night"
• "Love Thing"
• "Make Me an Island"
• "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now"
• "One Moment in Time"
• "Room in Your Heart"
• "Tall, Dark Handsome Stranger"
• "The Air That I Breathe"
• "To All the Girls I've Loved Before"
• "Way of the World"
• "When I Need You"
• "When You Tell Me That You Love Me"
• "Where Were You"
• "You're Such a Good Looking Woman"

The later in the chart now!
At one time I remember reading in one of the hit singles books that Jonathan King had claimed to have been the Pipkins, but that was proved false.

The lingering effect was not the few shops took part, they had 300 on the go more than the others, but as complained about in many of the Music Papers many shops stocked the top 50 only. Now the fact that people complained they only stocked top 50 was stocked, proves that as far as the record shops were concerned they were ignoring the other charts as none of them were a top 50.

I do know of an error in the BMRB chart, that you couldn't know till you see the Real Chart. That concerns the very long run of the Archies record Sugar Sugar. At some point the BMRB must have mixed up the record number of the act's follow up single "Jingle Jangle" and continued to count the sales of the old one instead. At one point Sugar Sugar goes down and then back up again for no real reason. The Real Chart has both in the chart, but the newer single is landing roughly or sometimes in the same place as the old single on the BMRB chart. The newer single also has a decent amount of owns on 45 Cat, showing that it was popular. The BMRB chart was computerised at this point, so if somebody didn't code the record Jingle Jangle correctly nobody would have notice. It would have only been in the lower part of the chart, not the 30, so the sales wouldn't have been enough for the record company to say we have huge stocks going out of the record and no chart position?