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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    That's a very interesting exercise on comparisons David and makes for interesting reading. It is gratifying that your findings indicate that the UAC probably got it right in the circumstances. It would also seem to indicate that my careful consideration of all the facts in working out chart positions is as robust as possible.
    This comparison does of course make many assumptions that may be (probably are?) wrong (such as that the NME and RM dealer charts behave the same way, 1955 and 1958 behave the same etc), but yes it does seem that your careful consideration here was right which is good news. Well done on trying to make it as accurate as possible. A very difficult thing to do with flawed data (such as sometimes split sides in one chart but not others).

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    I just realized that Connie Francis missed out on being no.1 and no.30 by a week. Has anyone topped and tailed the chart(s)? Probably more likely with the shorter charts - though maybe not.....
    Edit: Of course the UAC was only 29 this week (I was looking at the NME chart when I thought it).
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun April 10, 2022, 20:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post

    It'll be interesting to see the recalculated charts from Record Mirror for the later 50s when there are 50+ stores listed as that will give us some indication of the average points for a 26 position compared with a 9 etc... Of course it'll probably vary from week to week but it'll give us some idea. You only did a Top 20 for 54-55, but were you getting enough tracks for a top 30? If so you could say double the values of a 30-35 dealer store chart to approximate to a 65 (as you have for NME). It won't be fully accurate but could give some indication.....

    Edit:
    Looking again I see you did do a top 30 for some of the latter charts. For the 8th October 1955 (39 returns) you had 12.5 points for 26, and 55 for 9. Increasing to 65 dealers actually probably wouldn't change the ratios only the values and so may not be necessary? On that chart adding the 12.5 to the 55 would give 67.5 for 8th place instead of 9th and 1 position (8th instead of 9th) would not change the position of Pat Boone.. A greater than 2 change is required. So your assumption here would appear to be justified (based on 1 comparison).

    Edit 2:
    Looking at the previous week's (1st October) it'd have made no difference to the position providing further support....

    Edit 3:
    I looked at about 10 charts and I think twice it made a difference of 2 or possibly more positions (as there was one chart where positions 7-9 had the same score) and most of the time 0 or 1 positions, so in all likelihood a position of 26 would not influenced the position of 9 by more than 1 position, thus not changing Pat Boone's position in the UAC.
    That's a very interesting exercise on comparisons David and makes for interesting reading. It is gratifying that your findings indicate that the UAC probably got it right in the circumstances. It would also seem to indicate that my careful consideration of all the facts in working out chart positions is as robust as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post

    Thanks for clarifying your reasoning for not averaging. It is true a position of 26 will probably not influence the position of 9 by that much...
    It'll be interesting to see the recalculated charts from Record Mirror for the later 50s when there are 50+ stores listed as that will give us some indication of the average points for a 26 position compared with a 9 etc... Of course it'll probably vary from week to week but it'll give us some idea. You only did a Top 20 for 54-55, but were you getting enough tracks for a top 30? If so you could say double the values of a 30-35 dealer store chart to approximate to a 65 (as you have for NME). It won't be fully accurate but could give some indication.....

    Edit:
    Looking again I see you did do a top 30 for some of the latter charts. For the 8th October 1955 (39 returns) you had 12.5 points for 26, and 55 for 9. Increasing to 65 dealers actually probably wouldn't change the ratios only the values and so may not be necessary? On that chart adding the 12.5 to the 55 would give 67.5 for 8th place instead of 9th and 1 position (8th instead of 9th) would not change the position of Pat Boone.. A greater than 2 change is required. So your assumption here would appear to be justified (based on 1 comparison).

    Edit 2:
    Looking at the previous week's (1st October) it'd have made no difference to the position providing further support....

    Edit 3:
    I looked at about 10 charts and I think twice it made a difference of 2 or possibly more positions (as there was one chart where positions 7-9 had the same score) and most of the time 0 or 1 positions, so in all likelihood a position of 26 would not influenced the position of 9 by more than 1 position, thus not changing Pat Boone's position in the UAC.
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun April 10, 2022, 17:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Thanks David

    These split sides are the most difficult situations to deal with. I look at each chart individually and consider how to make the best decision based on the circumstances of each. I do like you mention use taking an average from the other charts when this is deemed the most appropriate to help with this. I also look carefully at the difference in the chart position between the split sides. As a general rule if one side is placed in the Top Ten and the other considerably lower outside the Top Twenty I believe this considerably lowers the impact so I tend to consider it still but look at all the other variations carefully. This is the process I have used throughout all the years posted thus far. Considerations obviously differ if both sides are closer together. When this happens averaging almost always takes place.

    In the case of above for this week one side is placed at 9 and the other at 26. I considered that at such a low position for the second side the impact would be minimal. Even if I considered these lower sales added to the higher would gain it two places to #7 it still would fall short of Michael Holliday on points.

    On this basis I decided therefore not to average it for this week. Am I right, maybe, am I wrong maybe, but I finally based the chart positions on the basis of the above considerations and placed the overall Boone single at 7.
    THanks for clarifying your reasoning for not averaging. It is true a position of 26 will probably not influence the position of 9 by that much...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    POTP audience dwarfed that of NME, so for most people at the time the Everlys were top. Worse is to come with their follow up - which the NME thwarted completely from being a number one in the 'official' pantheon.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    A deserved number 1 for The Everly Brothers with only the NME not placing their record at number 1 this week in 1958. However as the NME chart from the 1950s is treated by the OCC as the "official chart" of record, Vic Damone gets an official number 1.
    This is one of the weeks I mentioned a while back where NME really falls out of step with all the other papers with a #1 single with more to come. None of the other three go with Vic Damone this week or any week to follow.
    Also NME have already combined the two sides of The Everly Brothers so split sides are not the reason here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    A deserved number 1 for The Everly Brothers with only the NME not placing their record at number 1 this week in 1958. However as the NME chart from the 1950s is treated by the OCC as the "official chart" of record, Vic Damone gets an official number 1.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 28th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 28th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 All I Have To Do Is Dream / Claudette - The Everly Brothers 1 2 1 1 1 5635
    4 2 On The Street Where You Live - Vic Damone 2 1 3 2 2 5550
    1 3 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 3 3 2 5 3 5265
    6 4 Stairway Of Love - Michael Holliday 4 4 4 3 6 5050
    5 5 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 5 8 5 4 4 4845
    8 6 Witch Doctor - Don Lang 6 6 6 6 8 4630
    3 7 Tom Hark - Elias and The Zig Zag Jive Flutes 7 6 8 7 7 4600
    9 8 The Army Game - The TV Cast 8 5 14 9 5 4555
    7 9 A Wonderful Time Up There / It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 9 11 7 8 11 4020
    16 10 Big Man - The Four Preps 10 10 10 11 9 4010
    13 11 Book Of Love - The Mudlarks 11 9 13 10 10 3980
    12 12 Twilight Time - The Platters 12 12 9 14 13 3545
    20 13 Purple People Eater - Sheb Wooley 13 14 12 12 12 3480
    11 14 Kewpie Doll - Frankie Vaughan 14 13 17 16 16 3020
    28 15 Rave On - Buddy Holly 17 15 20 17 18 2655
    14 16 Wear My Ring Around Your Neck - Elvis Presley 15 23 16 13 15 2575
    10 17 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 16 22 15 15 17 2465
    21 18 I Dig You Baby - Marvin Rainwater 19 21 19 14 1970
    19 19 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Perry Como 24 18 20 20 1880
    15 20 On The Street Where You Live - David Whitfield 18 18 11 1345
    NEW 21 Sugar Moon - Pat Boone 20= 19 18 1300
    17 22 Lollipop - The Mudlarks 20 19 1195
    18 23 Witch Doctor - David Seville 25 19 1110
    23 24 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Robert Earl 20= 16 975
    24 25 Return To Me - Dean Martin 17 910
    25 26 A Very Precious Love - Doris Day 27 260
    28 27 Little Serenade - Eddie Calvert 28 195
    NEW 28 Purple People Eater - Jackie Dennis 29 130
    NEW 28 I'm Sorry I Made You Cry - Connie Francis 29 130
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 26
    22 Kewpie Doll - Perry Como
    26 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ella Fitzgerald
    26 Teacher Teacher - Johnny Mathis

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Thanks David

    These split sides are the most difficult situations to deal with. I look at each chart individually and consider how to make the best decision based on the circumstances of each. I do like you mention use taking an average from the other charts when this is deemed the most appropriate to help with this. I also look carefully at the difference in the chart position between the split sides. As a general rule if one side is placed in the Top Ten and the other considerably lower outside the Top Twenty I believe this considerably lowers the impact so I tend to consider it still but look at all the other variations carefully. This is the process I have used throughout all the years posted thus far. Considerations obviously differ if both sides are closer together. When this happens averaging almost always takes place.

    In the case of above for this week one side is placed at 9 and the other at 26. I considered that at such a low position for the second side the impact would be minimal. Even if I considered these lower sales added to the higher would gain it two places to #7 it still would fall short of Michael Holliday on points.

    On this basis I decided therefore not to average it for this week. Am I right, maybe, am I wrong maybe, but I finally based the chart positions on the basis of the above considerations and placed the overall Boone single at 7.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Shouldn't you be taking the average of Pat Boone's double AA side for the NME score in the 21st June Chart (17/3 = 5.67) since that would put it on 4831.67 points and therefore 6th instead of 7th (so the NME actual value may be distorting it's position, as the other side is still charting)?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    And it sure is fine

  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Not enough info. He could be a purple (people eater), or a (purple people) eater...

    Edit: oops, I see verse 3 tells the tale, he eats purple people...

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I like purple and am indeed a purple person today as I am dressed in my purple jumper. If I am not heard from again then I’ve been got….

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    Then there's Purple People Eater bringing a touch of pure crass to the chart. Least said the better.

    Hands up everyone who used to assume - as I did - that the creature in this song was purple!

    Close scrutiny of the lyrics reveals that the creature devours purple people....

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The Platters are rarely heard these days. One reason might be that their recordings seem to be produced for listening in low fidelity. For example: "Only you canned make ...".

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    See now I quite like the stupidity of Purple People Eater….. Next thing you’ll be saying you don’t like Monster Mash! Rave On is excellent though and the Everly’s yes, absolutely agree thats wonderful.
    Oh you got that so wrong Lonnie I absolutely love Monster Mash, it's the perfect comedy single without being naff and one of my very favourites from 1973 when it re-released and went Top 3 here. Bobby 'Boris' Pickett's Boris Karloff is spot on, so very droll.

    All together now 'They did the mash, they did the monster mash, the monster mash, it was a
    graveyard smash ........'
    Oh Wonderful Stuff

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    See now I quite like the stupidity of Purple People Eater….. Next thing you’ll be saying you don’t like Monster Mash! Rave On is excellent though and the Everly’s yes, absolutely agree thats wonderful.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    In comes Buddy Holly with Rave On, which is easily one of his best. A cracking rocker for the times.
    The Everly's All I Have To Do Is Dream finally makes a welcome rush for the top. Easily one of their very best.

    Climbing slowly, but The Platters Twilight Time is another standout record on this week's chart. The harmonies are pitch perfect as you would expect from them. Timeless.

    It will take big strides soon but Dean Martin's Return To Me is a beautiful ballad bringing a touch of pure class to the chart.

    Then there's Purple People Eater bringing a touch of pure crass to the chart. Least said the better.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 21st 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 21st 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    8 2 All I Have To Do Is Dream / Claudette - The Everly Brothers 2 4 3 2 2 5355
    2 3 Tom Hark - Elias and The Zig Zag Jive Flutes 3 3 5 3 3 5270
    6 4 On The Street Where You Live - Vic Damone 4 2 4 8 4 5100
    7 5 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 5 5 2 5 7 4895
    4 6 Stairway Of Love - Michael Holliday 6 5 7 4 8 4750
    3 7 A Wonderful Time Up There/ It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 7 9 6 6 5 4615
    5 8 Witch Doctor - Don Lang 8 7 8 7 6 4595
    13 9 The Army Game - The TV Cast 9 8 10 11 9 4140
    9 10 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 10 14 9 10 11 3695
    12 11 Kewpie Doll - Frankie Vaughan 11 11 11 13 14 3540
    14 12 Twilight Time - The Platters 12 12 15 15 10 3535
    19 13 Book Of Love - The Mudlarks 13 13 19 12 13 3310
    10 14 Wear My Ring Around Your Neck - Elvis Presley 14 21 16 9 12 3045
    25 15 On The Street Where You Live - David Whitfield 15= 17 12 18 18 2685
    23 16 Big Man - The Four Preps 15= 16 14 15 2615
    11 17 Lollipop - The Mudlarks 17= 10 17 18 2495
    16 18 Witch Doctor - David Seville 20 18 18 16 2070
    17 19 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Perry Como 17= 15 14 16 2065
    NEW 20 Purple People Eater - Sheb Wooley 22 19 17 1905
    20 21 I Dig You Baby - Marvin Rainwater 19 20 20 1880
    15 22 Kewpie Doll - Perry Como 19 23 13 17 1530
    22 23 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Robert Earl 20 20 990
    24 24 Return To Me - Dean Martin 24 455
    26 25 A Very Precious Love - Doris Day 25 390
    21 26 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ella Fitzgerald 27 260
    27 26 Teacher Teacher - Johnny Mathis 27 260
    NEW 28 Little Serenade - Eddie Calvert 29 130
    NEW 28 Rave On - Buddy Holly 29 130
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 26
    18 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater
    28 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath
    29 Stairway Of Love - Terry Dene

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    This may sound silly but is it possible the BBC compiler misread his 3 as a 2, because Vic Damone scored 26 points and Lonnie 36?
    Yeah I agree it's the only logical explanation but yet another careless mistake that could have been corrected by a simple follow up check, obviously not done, like the many, many other occasions.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    This may sound silly but is it possible the BBC compiler misread his 3 as a 2, because Vic Damone scored 26 points and Lonnie 36?
    I thought the same thing...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    This may sound silly but is it possible the BBC compiler misread his 3 as a 2, because Vic Damone scored 26 points and Lonnie 36?

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Four double A sides inside the top 10. Outside of the top 2, there's some variance inside the top 10 among the four newspapers. It appears to be the mid part of the various charts that are in agreement with each other.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 14th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 14th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    3 2 Tom Hark - Elias and The Zig Zag Jive Flutes 2 2 3 2 2 5485
    2 3 A Wonderful Time Up There / It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 3 7 2 3 3 5085
    9 4 Stairway Of Love - Michael Holliday 4 3 5 4 6 5050
    10 5 Witch Doctor - Don Lang 5 5 8 8 4 4805
    7 6 On The Street Where You Live - Vic Damone 6= 4 4 9 9 4630
    8 7 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 8 6 6 6 10 4510
    11 8 All I Have To Do Is Dream / Claudette - The Everly Brothers 9 9 10 7 5 4475
    5 9 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 6= 10 9 10 7 4195
    6 10 Wear My Ring Around Your Neck - Elvis Presley 10 13 7 5 8 4190
    4 11 Lollipop - The Mudlarks 11 8 11 12 11 3955
    12 12 Kewpie Doll - Frankie Vaughan 12 10 12 11 13 3720
    18 13 The Army Game - The TV Cast 13 12 17 13 12 3445
    16 14 Twilight Time - The Platters 14 16 14 17 14 2980
    14 15 Kewpie Doll - Perry Como 15 14 13 20 15 2955
    15 16 Witch Doctor - David Seville 16 18 15 15 17 2725
    20 17 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Perry Como 17 15 16 16 20 2675
    13 18 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 18 20 18 14 19 2440
    28 19 Book Of Love - The Mudlarks 19 19 19 16 2160
    25 20 I Dig You Baby - Marvin Rainwater 22 18 1365
    17 21 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ella Fitzgerald 23 19 18 1340
    22 22 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Robert Earl 20 17 20 1185
    NEW 23 Big Man - The Four Preps 21 650
    NEW 24 Return To Me - Dean Martin 24 455
    26 25 On The Street Where You Live - David Whitfield 25 390
    NEW 26 A Very Precious Love - Doris Day 27 260
    RE 27 Teacher Teacher - Johnny Mathis 28 195
    24 28 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 29 130
    19 29 Stairway Of Love - Terry Dene 30 65
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 26
    21 Johnny B Goode - Chuck Berry
    23 Lollipop - The Chordettes
    27 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan
    29 Sweet Little Sixteen - Chuck Berry
    30 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Ronnie Hilton
    * The BBC chart placed Lonnie Donegan at 6= but it's chart statistics do not support that high placing. Point wise it should be 10. 0

    Leave a comment:

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