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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 4th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 4th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 1 1 1 1 1 6450
    1 2 Roulette - Russ Conway 2 2 2 2 2 6235
    8 3 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 3 4 3 3 3 5945
    3 4 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 4 3 4 4 4 5880
    4 5 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 5 5 5 5 5 5590
    6 6 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 6 7 7 7 6 5220
    9 7 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 7 8 6 10 7 4985
    11 8 Personality - Anthony Newley 8= 6 8 13 8 4870
    5 9 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 8= 11 9 6 9 4715
    10 10 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 10 9 11 12 13 4285
    15 11 Personality - Lloyd Price 13 10 13 15 12 4065
    14 12 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 12 15 14 9 11 3985
    7 13 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 14 13 12 11 15 3875
    12 14 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 11 20 10 8 10 3855
    19 15 May You Always - Joan Regan 15 12 15 18 14 3590
    18 16 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 16 14 17 16 18 3220
    20 17 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 17= 17 20 14 19 2920
    13 18 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 17= 18 16 20 17 2835
    16 19 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 19 20 19 17 16 2775
    17 20 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 27 18 19 1295
    21 21 The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton 20 16 1125
    28 22 For A Penny - Pat Boone 19 900
    28 23 A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts 28 20 885
    23 24 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 23 600
    25 25 Donna - Marty Wilde 25 450
    24 26 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 26 375
    NEW 27 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 28 225
    27 28 Kansas City - Little Richard 30 75
    Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B) 22
    Take A Letter To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A) 24
    22 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters
    26 Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates
    28 Margo Don't Go - Billy Fury

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Pat Boone is actually a re-entry on the 27th June chart.
    Corrected

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Pat Boone is actually a re-entry on the 27th June chart.
    Also there are again errors in the BBC chart. Pointwise, Lloyd Price (Personality) and Ruby Murray (Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye) are actually equal 18 (not 17 for Lloyd Price).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    Lonnie enters here with a new song that was recorded and issued with a swear word in it - and then re-edited to remove it. If you listen carefully the echo is still presented the overdub can be heard. Bear Family issued a set of all his studio recordings in about 1990 or so and they isolated the backing track to demo this.

    Initial lyric
    we fought the ruddy British

    The overdub is
    we fought the bloomin' British
    I think this was Lonnie's best single for a couple of years. It went top three for weeks. Johnny Horton's US smash version will chart too but never was a threat to Lonnie over here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    And 'ruddy' was itself a toning down from 'bloody' in the Jimmy Driftwood original.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Lonnie enters here with a new song that was recorded and issued with a swear word in it - and then re-edited to remove it. If you listen carefully the echo is still presented the overdub can be heard. Bear Family issued a set of all his studio recordings in about 1990 or so and they isolated the backing track to demo this.

    Initial lyric
    we fought the ruddy British

    The overdub is
    we fought the bloomin' British

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 27th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 27th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Roulette - Russ Conway 1= 1 2 1 2 5915
    3 2 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 1= 2 1 2 1 5885
    5 3 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 3 3 3 5 3 5520
    2 4 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 4 4 4 4 4 5400
    4 5 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson * 5 9 5 3 5 5333
    6 6 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 6 5 6 6 7 5015
    7 7 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 7 8 7 7 9 4605
    NEW 8 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 8 7 8 13 6 4595
    13 9 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 9 10 9 12 8 4265
    8 10 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 10 6 11 10 14 4235
    20 11 Personality - Anthony Newley 12 11 15 15 12 3680
    14 12 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 11 19 10 8 10 3605
    9 13 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 14 16 16 16 13 3180
    15 14 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 13 21 17 9 11 3180
    17 15 Personality - Lloyd Price 17= 12 20 19 15 3140
    19 16 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 15 15 12 20 16 3015
    10 17 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 17= 17 13 17 18 2840
    16 18 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 19 14 11 20 2735
    12 19 May You Always - Joan Regan 16 12 14 17 2690
    11 20 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 20 20 18 14 19 2550
    NEW 21 The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton 21 750
    21 22 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters 25 19 750
    22 23 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 23 600
    25 24 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 24 525
    18 25 Donna - Marty Wilde 18 520
    24 26 Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 26 375
    27 27 Kansas City - Little Richard 27 300
    RE 28 For A Penny - Pat Boone 28 225
    NEW 28 A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts 28 225
    NEW 28 Margo Don't Go - Billy Fury 28 225
    Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B) 18
    23 Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price
    26 Venus - Dickie Valentine
    28 Margie - Fats Domino
    * This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    BTW, on the 20th June, the last weeks positions for the two versions of Personality are switched. On the 13th June Chart, Lloyd Price was at 22 and Anthony Newley at 23.
    I have corrected that thanks David.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    BTW, on the 20th June, the last weeks positions for the two versions of Personality are switched. On the 13th June Chart, Lloyd Price was at 22 and Anthony Newley at 23.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Interestingly, most of the chart combos I pointed out for the June 13th chart are repeated in the June 20th chart. Side Saddle's positions are tied for NME and Disc (8) and MM and RM (12), Marty Wilde (Teenager in Love) tie for NME and RM (4) and are similar for MM and Disc (6 and 7) and the Everly Brothers are again similar for NME/MM (20/19) and Disc/RM (11/13).

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    Yeah that fact on the three way number one initiating the BMRB chart is a commonly held misconception. It was not the case. Discussions were well underway before that, as Robbie also pointed out, to have an official national chart. Certainly the three way number one would have added further evidence that a national chart was indeed needed.
    Yes, the article was printed about a month before the triple chart entry. It's a fun read and I mention it within the 1968 volume of the 70 years series.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Robbie posted here an article from Billboard about discussions with the BBC and BMRB planning a sales chart which preceded the infamous 3-way tie, so it was not the original cause - although could well have been a catalyst.
    Yeah that fact on the three way number one initiating the BMRB chart is a commonly held misconception. It was not the case. Discussions were well underway before that, as Robbie also pointed out, to have an official national chart. Certainly the three way number one would have added further evidence that a national chart was indeed needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The screengrab of the fake board on that Des and Mick website is from the Chart Brittania show, in turn copied from the anniversary show. I can't remember whether they cut Saville out of the CB clip, but there are several photos of the real board they could have used cutting him out. The board with Sandie Shaw at number one, in the other screengrab, is genuine.

    Robbie posted here an article from Billboard about discussions with the BBC and BMRB planning a sales chart which preceded the infamous 3-way tie, so it was not the original cause - although could well have been a catalyst.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

    Wow, okay. I don't recall seeing the show TBH.... In that case absolutely agree!
    I must try and find that clip although it might be deleted given that JS was present.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    It was him JS who opened the anniversary show though Lonnie standing in front of the board with the RR chart replacing the original and saying something like , welcome to TOTP and this is the chart. What a travesty .
    Wow, okay. I don't recall seeing the show TBH.... In that case absolutely agree!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    They probably did it to avoid using the image above with him in it…
    It was him JS who opened the anniversary show though Lonnie standing in front of the board with the RR chart replacing the original and saying something like , welcome to TOTP and this is the chart. What a travesty .

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    They probably did it to avoid using the image above with him in it…

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yes Brian that is the correct BBC chart used for the first TOTP and not the RR one that was used for the anniversary show. I was appalled when the BBC pulled that stunt hoping no one would notice. But I did.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    More photos and some interesting text can be found here.

    Des and Mick Online - TV & Radio - Top of the Pops


    The BBC's method of producing an 'average' chart was not without its problems, not least its tendency to produce joint chart positions. This issue came to a head in August 1968, when three songs all shared number one position on the BBC chart, and thus TOTP had to feature all three. And so in February 1969, the BBC, in collaboration with the Record Retailer paper, commissioned the British Market Research Bureau to produce a weekly 'official' chart. This would now feature on both Pick and Top of the Pops. By now, the latter had switched to revealing the Top 20 records in the more familiar reverse order.
    Last edited by brian05; Mon June 6, 2022, 14:19.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    The first ever BBC Top of the Pops chart from January 1964.



    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Hmmm, crazy as it may seem it is the paper with the least store returns that has the best balanced chart this week, Melody Maker.

    All other three charts have outliers which are so far they are actually outside the ball park and across the street.
    NME with Joan Regan, Disc with Bobby Darin (again) Duane Eddy and RM with Neil Sedaka, all out of sync with the others.

    It must surely come down to which shops and which type of shops each sampled to get such wayward differing results to these extremes.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 20th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 20th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Roulette - Russ Conway 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    1 2 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 2 2 5800
    5 3 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 3 3 3 5 3 5520
    3 4 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson * 4 7 4 3 6 5298
    10 5 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 5 4 6 7 4 5230
    6 6 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 7 5 7 6 5 5110
    4 7 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 6 6 5 4 7 5045
    8 8 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 8 8 12 8 12 4260
    11 9 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 9 10 14 14 8 4060
    9 10 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 10 13 10 10 15 3675
    7 11 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 11 12 11 9 17 3645
    18 12 May You Always - Joan Regan 14 9 18 18 16 3395
    NEW 13 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 12 11 8 10 3335
    14 14 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 13 22 9 12 9 3305
    15 15 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 15 20 19 11 13 3005
    24 16 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 17 16 17 15 19 2835
    22 17 Personality - Lloyd Price 16 18 15 11 2575
    13 18 Donna - Marty Wilde 18= 23 16 13 20 2355
    21 19 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 18= 14 14 2295
    23 20 Personality - Anthony Newley 21 16 18 2130
    12 21 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters 20 19 13 19 1830
    16 22 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 17 17 1610
    19 23 Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price 24 20 965
    NEW 24 Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 26 20 650
    20 25 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 24 525
    RE 26 Venus - Dickie Valentine 28 225
    29 27 Kansas City - Little Richard 29 150
    29 28 Margie - Fats Domino 30 75
    Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B) 14
    Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A) 27
    17 Come Softly To Me - The Fleetwoods
    25 Idle On Parade (EP) - Anthony Newley
    26 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan
    27 Charlie Brown - The Coasters
    28 For A Penny - Pat Boone
    * This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Wikipedia says: "Despite reaching a respectable 10 position on the singles chart 'Mean Streak' would have fared better were it not having to compete in the charts with its flip side 'Never Mind' which peaked at number 21."

    Actually the peaks did not coincide, but I wonder if it would have made a difference anyway. Although 'Mean Streak' did hold up better when buyers coalesced around it.

    NME positions for the last 5 weeks:
    Mean Streak 12/10/12/11/11
    Never Mind 21/26/ - / - / -

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    By now Disc were featuring Bubbling Unders. This week's 'Ones To Watch' were the records by Ruby Murray, Billy Fury and Lloyd Price.

    Similarly, Record Mirror had a Top 10 by 'British Artistes' where the bottom few were outside their general Top 20.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Its definitely an interesting chart this week with certain tracks being comparable on two charts each time (but not the same two for each). For instance Side Saddle is at 7 on both NME and Disc while at 12 on both MM and RM. On the other hand Marty Wilde (A Teenager In Love) is at 8 and 9 on NME and RM, while 14 and 15 on MM and Disc. Then we have Frankie Vaughan at 10 on both NME and MM and 13 on both Disc and RM - The Everly Brothers follow a similar pattern (but the other way round being much higher on the Disc/RM pairiing (11 vs 20). The smoothing out of these complex 'interactions' by the UAC again emphasizes its value..
    I too believe the 'averaging' and smoothing out process produces a far more balanced and relevant chart for the years prior to BMRB.

    In effect the UAC at this time is using a sample of around 200 stores. Not bad for 1959.

    Leave a comment:

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