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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    For what it's worth, BBC Pick of the Pops started calculating their own averaged Top 3 chart in Oct 1957, before going to their larger Top 20 in Mar 1958...

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Looking at the 30th December, it is interesting that the only difference between the no.1 and 2 is the multiplier as everything else is the same. This does beg the question why the BBC chart is different. Assuming they didn't include RM or RR, then Moon River would still be no.1 (1-2-2) over Stranger on the Shore (2-1-3) and Tower of Strength (2-3-1) but you'd expect these to be equal 2. I guess they looked at last week and chose the one increasing for 2....
    This is also one of the few charts where RR is the decider since if you exclude it, Moon River would be ahead on points, but Tower of Strength would be ahead for the number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best profile (1,1,2 vs 1,2,2) and best sum (7 vs 8) etc.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Thanks for that brain. Your supportive comments really are much appreciated, and yes I too am looking forwarding to charting these artists in the months to come.

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    I'm glad to see that you have decided to continue this most worthy of projects. It would be a travesty to not be able to see the rise of The Beatles and merseyside music in 1962/63 or for that matter the rise of Cliff Richard and Elvis Presley in the 50s (I know that some of 54-56 is tricky with only two charts - though with one you know the exact multiplier for many of the weeks). Yours is one of the threads I check every day (often several times a day!). Thank you for all the work you have done (and will do) to bring us this valuable thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    As you know it was 1958 before the BBC did their own averaged chart. Dave and Trevor went back before then and did their own composite chart using the BBC methodology from the first RM chart in January 1955 which is certainly useful.

    However I will continue to factor in the number of store returns to the averaging process for 55 to 59 just as I do now to make it more robust.

    I again intend to use Alan's store numbers for this decade too. These as stated by him are NME 50 till 1959, RM 60 till 1961, MM 20 then 35 in 1959, and Disc 30 then 40 in 1959.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    ^
    Vicky had a history of starting / stopping / restarting / restopping etc posting 50s and 60s chart threads back to early Dotmusic days in 1999 (I've just found the poster on ukmix and sure enough, there is an aborted 50s thread- Vicky posted 15/11/52 and 22/11/52 then posted "oh I give up" and promptly did that!) so I think posters got used to it and stopped commenting as the thread was bound to end sooner rather than later.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    She did do a composite chart from 6-Oct-56 to 7-Sep-57.

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/whir...-64-t3765.html

    The first post shows that her methodology was flawed. She gave 30 points to the NME number one and 20 points to the other charts number ones, and so on down. You need to give the same points for each number one, whether it is 1 point counting up or 30 points counting down.

    A pity that someone did not give her feedback at the time, as clearly she was very knowledgeable and must have spent a lot of time and effort compiling them.

    Although a poster (is that Alan Smith?) does point out to her early on that the BBC were not compiling a chart at that time so she was not recreating it.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    ^
    Vicky used to also post at ukmix (I forget the name she posted under) and Dotmusic. I wonder what became of her?

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  • Splodj
    replied
    With regard to the 1950s ...

    There was a poster Vicky Williams on Tapatalk who started doing a 50s composite chart. She intended going right to the end of the decade but only posted as far as 25-Jun-55.

    The thread is here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/whirligigtv/complete-uk-charts-1952-59-t3756.html

    Edit: Looking at it more carefully it is not so much a composite as the NME chart with the RM positions in the second column, and presumably the other chart positions would have been in subsequent columns had it continued.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sun March 7, 2021, 17:05.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah kjell, after 1963 I will go back to the fifties as originally stated. Lonnie makes a valid comment above though about 1955 and early 1956 when only 2 charts existed so very similar.

    I intend to start in March 1956 when MM joined them with its own chart, initially compiling a composite Top 20 for a few weeks but from April 14th 1956 I will compile a Top 30 as NME compiled such from then too allowing a composite Top 30 from that date right through the sixties.

    From February 1958 the Disc chart which comes on board then will be included too.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    I’m eagerly awaiting the Average for my formative years of musical taste, namely 62 and 63. I do hope you will go on Brian. A completion of the project for the era lacking sales to make this a chart Bible for the whole period should of course include the fifties.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I capitulate !

    I interpreted wrongly.

    I haven't in the least lost interest and it's not too much work, as compiling these charts still thrills and surprises me week after week. I'm actually way ahead anyway which proves this, and am currently working on September 1962. I too can't wait to get to 1963 which for me was the actual year when my world expanded and I embraced the charts and all things going on in them, further accentuated by the arrival of The Beatles and I was totally hooked from then.

    Your comments above totally reassure me you are still hungry for this so it would be 'unethical and immoral' you've got to love that comment, lol, to take my foot off the pedal now, so I will enjoy to continue sharing these with you.

    I overlooked just how many 'likes' I have for this thread, 22 at the last count, and as Lonnie says, the total number of views and comments built up in just 9 months. It is an awesome following that I am truly grateful for.

    So, to all of you above, my thanks for urging me onwards, (and similarly thanks to all others who have 'liked' the thread and follow it), I will gladly continue with posting a new chart every day for our mutual pleasure.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Keep going Brian! I look in here several times a day regardless, even though I'm not as interested in 1960/61 as I am for 1965/68, when I lived in the UK (and also 1956/58). Though thread viewership may be temporarily down, I expect it to rise with the debut of Beatlemania. If you recall, I privately suggested you start this thread either in 1963, or with Love Me Do in very late 1962, so we could all experience the Beatle and beat group rise together. Guilt trip: it would be most unethical and immoral of you to cut us off now, just as UK beat groups are about to bloom and explode! Howzat, ha?

    If it's too much work, then go to one chart per day, or every other day, or whatever. But we need you to keep this going. Robin Hood says rock on...

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Agreed! Would be a pity not to complete the remainder of the 60s, at least!


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  • Robbie
    replied
    Keep posting the UAC MrTibbs. I may not post as frequently as I used to do but I do visit the thread every day.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrainDamageII
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    This may be an opportune time to wind up the project as I sense interest is waning and there is no point as they say in 'flogging a dead horse'

    Where once the thread received 150 to 200 views a day this has now dropped considerably to around 90 to 100. Of more importance though is that where the charts were once debated and commented on by a number of participants has dropped off considerably to only a handful of regular guys which again indicates that interest across the board has dropped off and even the views I do get are just of passing interest.

    I suspect 1964 to 1969 were the really popular years which attracted lots of interest but thus far 1960 and 1961 don't garner the same enthusiasm which makes me think things won't be any better for 1962/63, let alone going back as I originally intended to the fifties where interest may drastically reduce even more.
    Is my interpretation of this and logic correct and has the thread now passed its use by date ?
    MrTibbs

    The question is do you still enjoy doing these charts regardless of number of views and replies. Would you complete this project even if you didn't post them here. If yes, then keep posting. I am positive there are plenty of people interested in this, myself included. Even if you only had 10 views a day, those 10 people are appreciating what you do.

    Remember, many of your views might be from people who are not members, they cannot post, comment or like but still enjoy what you do.

    As you probably know, I post the Billboard Charts every week but I must say that your thread is the one I go to look at updates more than any other so would be disappointed if you were to stop.

    Keep Posting

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I agree with Splodj , and feel it should continue. I do think the 50's may not work as well (I had tried to compile something similar for 1955-56 myself and saw little differences between the charts and gave up). That said, if you're enjoying it why stop? For the 1950's, with smaller charts and longer chat runs, would a month at a time to post work better?

    The thread averages 7 posts a day since it started, and at almost 2000 posts makes it one of the longest and most active in recent months. More in context - the next "lowest" post count thread is for Billboard chart requests started in 2014. No post form the front page has over 1000 posts and been started last year, so I think this is popular.

    As always, it's up to the poster to make sure they are still enjoying doing it as, to me, that's the real point of posting this. Pif you're not then do stop, as I always feel people should enjoy what they do. We certainly enjoy what you have done so far, and it does seem a shame not to finish the last two years fro the full decade.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Brian, I realise I am one of the 'regular guys' but I would very much like you to continue with the crucial years of 62 and 63. And at the risk of sounding too serious, I believe what you are doing is valuable academic research.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The Wikipedia article on million sellers has 'Stranger on the shore' released in November, but then says it achieved a million in 1961. Surely that is too optimistic!

    1-Jan-62 is when the Beatles recorded the unimpressive Decca audition tape.

    Then the 'golden age' of Pick Of The Pops starts on 7-Jan-62 with the full Top 10 played. I notice that Unit 1 was expanded from being only new chart entrants to include other 11-20 records when there was a dearth of new releases for Unit 2 - mainly in the weeks leading up to Christmas. The final week of the year wasn't a problem because they were allowed to treat records released during that year as if they were new releases for needletime purposes, hence this week's POTP featured a review of the year as well as the current chart.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sun March 7, 2021, 15:50.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Above chart completes 1961 and rounds off completed years nicely. This may be an opportune time to wind up the project as I sense interest is waning and there is no point as they say in 'flogging a dead horse'

    Where once the thread received 150 to 200 views a day this has now dropped considerably to around 90 to 100. Of more importance though is that where the charts were once debated and commented on by a number of participants has dropped off considerably to only a handful of regular guys which again indicates that interest across the board has dropped off and even the views I do get are just of passing interest.

    I suspect 1964 to 1969 were the really popular years which attracted lots of interest but thus far 1960 and 1961 don't garner the same enthusiasm which makes me think things won't be any better for 1962/63, let alone going back as I originally intended to the fifties where interest may drastically reduce even more.
    Is my interpretation of this and logic correct and has the thread now passed its use by date ?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 30th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 30th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Moon River - Danny Williams 1 1 3 2 2 1 9620
    1 2 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 3 2 1 3 1 2 9570
    3 3 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 2 2 2 1 3 6 9510
    6 4 Johnny Will - Pat Boone 4 4 4 4 6 5 8780
    7 5 Let There Be Drums - Sandy Nelson 5 6 5 6 4 4 8470
    4 6 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 6 5 7 7 5 3 8300
    5 7 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 7 7 6 5 8 8 8120
    10 8 So Long Baby - Del Shannon 8 11 11 8 7 14 7040
    8 9 My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark 9 13 12 10 9 9 6650
    15 10 Toy Balloons - Russ Conway 10= 14 9 11 12 7 6550
    19 11 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 10= 9 10 15 13 15 6160
    11 12 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 13 16 14 13 15 16 5450
    30 13 Multiplication - Bobby Darin 14 10 13 17 11 4900
    9 14 I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey 15 18 16 16 14 19 4800
    12 15 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 16 23 9 18 13 4250
    18 16 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 12 8 18 11 10 4250
    14 17 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 18 19 19 14 12 4120
    13 18 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 20 8 19 24 3790
    23 19 Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine 20 12 15 17 2900
    17 20 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 28 17 18 28 2600
    16 21 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 19 12 27 2210
    20 22 I Understand - The G-Clefs 21 19 20 1730
    24 23 You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 15 21 1580
    26 24 Mrs. Mills Medley - Mrs. Mills 26 16 18 1540
    NEW 25 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 22 20 26 1530
    29 26 The Savage - The Shadows 20 23 1450
    NEW 27 Goodbye Cruel World - James Darren 25 17 1180
    21 28 I Cried For You - Ricky Stevens 17 1120
    25 29 Son This Is She - John Leyton 17 10 1050
    RE 30 Charleston - The Temperance Seven 24 22 830
    Baby's First Christmas - Connie Francis 20 30 580
    King Kong - Terry Lightfoot 27 29 380
    The Lion Sleeps Tonight - The Tokens 25 180
    September In The Rain - Dinah Washington 29 160
    Come Along Please - Bob Wallis 30 80

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Also, RR has Vee going up to 3 when it is going down elsewhere. And Boone, having entered at 11 last week, racing up to 4 when it is only at 6 elsewhere.

    It is a mess on just about every position below the top 2.
    And it gets worse over the next few weeks Splodj, positions are all over the place especially RR who apparently continue to hold a grudge against Acker Bilk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Also, RR has Vee going up to 3 when it is going down elsewhere. And Boone, having entered at 11 last week, racing up to 4 when it is only at 6 elsewhere.

    It is a mess on just about every position below the top 2.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sat March 6, 2021, 11:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    As with Bobby Vee RR is yet again way off the mark with Acker Bilk who is Top 3 in all other charts but way down at 6 on RR. Thankfully averaging corrects this, smooths the charts out, and places the record correctly.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 23rd 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 23rd 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    2 2 Moon River - Danny Williams 2 2 3 2 2 2 9510
    6 3 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 3 3 2 3 3 6 9210
    4 4 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 4 5 4 5 4 5 8690
    3 5 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 5 6 5 4 5 3 8670
    11 6 Johnny Will - Pat Boone 6 6 6 6 6 4 8310
    16 7 Let There Be Drums - Sandy Nelson 7 4 8 9 8 15 7590
    13 8 My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark 9 11 11 10 9 7 6930
    10 9 I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey 10 8 10 12 13 12 6660
    14 10 So Long Baby - Del Shannon 8 13 19 8 7 11 6490
    7 11 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 12 9 9 14 15 9 6410
    5 12 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 11 16 15 7 12 10 6380
    12 13 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 13 12 12 15 16 20 5500
    8 14 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 14 15 14 11 8 5190
    21 15 Toy Balloons - Russ Conway 19 19 7 17 17 14 5150
    9 16 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 16 22 16 13 14 13 4990
    20 17 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 23 13 16 17 3790
    29 18 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 17 10 18 18 24 3320
    17 19 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 15 16 11 21 2500
    NEW 20 I Understand - The G-Clefs 20 18 19 2450
    19 21 I Cried For You - Ricky Stevens 16 20 2410
    24 22 I Love How You Love Me - Jimmy Crawford 17 19 26 2310
    26 23 Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine 20 13 25 1620
    22 24 You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 21 18 1190
    30 25 Son This Is She - John Leyton 18 10 1050
    28 26 Mrs. Mills Medley - Mrs. Mills 20 30 910
    25 27 Baby's First Christmas - Connie Francis 29 19 760
    27 28 Bambino - The Springfields 25 23 720
    15 29 The Savage - The Shadows 28 16 690
    NEW 30 Multiplication - Bobby Darin 24 27 680
    Goodbye Cruel World - James Darren 30 20 630
    Charleston - The Temperance Seven 26 28 490
    Give Us A Kiss For Christmas - Lionel Bart 27 320
    Runaround Sue - Dion 22 270
    King Kong - Terry Lightfoot 30 80
    This Time - Troy Shondell 29 60

    Leave a comment:

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