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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Danny Williams and Frankie Vaughan will eventually battle for the Christmas #1

    Tony Orlando will have to wait until 1970 USA and 1971 UK for greater success.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 11th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 11th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 2 1 1 9790
    1 2 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 2 2 2 1 2 2 9680
    3 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 3 5 3 3 3 3 9080
    6 4 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 4 4 5 4 4 4 8850
    13 5 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 5 3 4 6 6 13 8400
    5 6 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 6 6 7 5 5 6 8350
    7 7 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 7 7 6 7 7 8 7950
    14 8 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 8 8 8 9 9 7 7460
    4 9 Wild Wind - John Leyton 10 14 9 8 8 5 7140
    8 10 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 9 9 11 10 10 9 6980
    10 11 Bless You - Tony Orlando 11 11 10 11 11 10 6690
    9 12 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 12 10 12 13 12 12 6320
    11 13 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 14 18 14 12 14 11 5600
    17 14 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 15 15 13 14 16 21 5280
    12 15 Michael - The Highwaymen 17 20 16 16 13 15 4810
    25 16 Moon River - Danny Williams 16 13 19 15 20 23 4710
    16 17 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 18 16 15 19 17 16 4630
    15 18 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 13 12 17 15 14 4370
    28 19 Runaround Sue - Dion 19 19 20 20 19 20 3760
    18 20 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 26 18 19 2190
    27 21 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 23 18 22 1560
    21 22 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 25 18 30 1290
    NEW 23 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 20 17 1120
    19 24 Jealousy - Billy Fury 24 18 950
    NEW 25 Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk 17 840
    22 26 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 22 29 780
    20 27 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 17 420
    NEW 28 This Time - Troy Shondell 27 320
    NEW 29 Tomorrow's Clown - Marty Wilde 28 240
    RE 30 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 24 210
    Little Sister - Elvis Presley 21
    Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 25 180
    Hey Look Me Over - Ronnie Hilton 29 160
    Together - Connie Francis 26 150
    Cryin' - Roy Orbison 27 120
    Granada - Frank Sinatra 28 90
    Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 30 80

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Agreed. It's a pity the BBC producers don't have the same bottle today on POTP instead of surrendering to the whims of others.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    POTPs rare foray into the 60s on Radio 2 today reminds me of when the same week in 1966 featured on an earlier BBC retro chart show with '19th Nervous Breakdown' at number one. Someone wrote in saying the Guinness book said it never made number one. The producer wrote back saying they used the official BBC chart and the charts in any particular book were down to the whim of the writers concerned. A pity they did not continue that policy; although they could not express it in those terms with Gambaccini as presenter!

    I found this in a post from Dave Taylor, who also said that Capital Radio used the BBC charts in its retro show 'Three O'Clock Thrill'. I've listened to some tapes and he is right.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sat February 27, 2021, 17:16.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    mmmmmmm Dion debuts with Runaround Sue, c'est magnifique

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 4th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 4th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    NEW 2 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 3 2 4 9400
    3 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 2 3 3 9350
    2 4 Wild Wind - John Leyton 4 5 6 4 4 2 8770
    8 5 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 5 4 5 5 7 7 8500
    16 6 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 6 7 4 6 5 14 8100
    17 7 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 7 6 9 7 6 16 7660
    10 8 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 10 10 7 8 15 8 7140
    6 9 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 8 9 8 12 8 9 7040
    7 10 Bless You - Tony Orlando 11 12 13 11 10 5 6630
    5 11 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 14 13 11 10 13 6 6600
    4 12 Michael - The Highwaymen 13 15 10 9 12 11 6510
    29 13 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 9 8 14 13 11 18 6230
    21 14 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 12 11 15 14 9 13 6070
    13 15 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 15 14 16 14 10 4490
    14 16 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 16 17 20 19 16 15 4330
    19 17 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 18 16 12 20 18 4200
    11 18 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 19 22 19 17 17 21 3980
    9 19 Jealousy - Billy Fury 17 19 15 19 17 3740
    12 20 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 20 20 18 20 12 3430
    27 21 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 21 16 25 1880
    RE 22 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 29 17 23 1240
    22 23 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 18 24 990
    20 24 Get Lost - Eden Kane 24 20 890
    NEW 25 Moon River - Danny Williams 23 640
    15 26 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 28 22 510
    NEW 27 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 25 480
    NEW 28 Runaround Sue - Dion 25 480
    18 29 Together - Connie Francis 19 360
    RE 30 The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 27 320
    Little Sister - Elvis Presley 18
    You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 26 150
    Granada - Frank Sinatra 30 29 140
    Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 27 120
    Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 28 90
    Cryin' - Roy Orbison 30 30

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah I overlooked the Dave Brubeck single there and I agree it's another excellent track.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Also entering, the biggest selling jazz single. One of the few hits in 5/4 time all the way through ('Living In The Past' is the only other one that comes to mind).

    And 'You Don't Know What Youve Got' was the name of an excellent Tim Rice oldies show when Capital Rado launched, using the Ral Donner record as the theme tune.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Jimmy Dean and Bobby Vee, cracking new entries

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 28th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 28th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    3 2 Wild Wind - John Leyton 2= 3 3 2 3 2 9380
    11 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 2= 2 2 4 2 4 9290
    2 4 Michael - The Highwaymen 4 7 4 3 4 3 8810
    4 5 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 5= 6 6 5 5 7 8380
    5 6 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 5= 4 5 6 6 9 8380
    10 7 Bless You - Tony Orlando 7 8 7 7 8 8 7760
    18 8 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 8 5 8 8 11 19 7350
    6 9 Jealousy - Billy Fury 9 12 10 11 7 5 6960
    15 10 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 10 9 9 10 12 11 6940
    7 11 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 11 15 15 9 9 10 6390
    8 12 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 13 13 11 12 15 6 6280
    19 13 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 12 10 18 13 14 16 5740
    14 14 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 14 16 13 16 10 15 5460
    9 15 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 16 18 14 14 16 14 5190
    NEW 16 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 17 14 16 17 18 4450
    NEW 17 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 15 11 17 15 27 4320
    12 18 Together - Connie Francis 18 21 18 13 12 3700
    23 19 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 20 17 12 2260
    13 20 Get Lost - Eden Kane 19 19 17 13 2200
    NEW 21 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 20 19 19 2200
    21 22 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 29 19 24 1690
    20 23 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 20 30 1240
    16 24 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 20 17 970
    22 25 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 20 22 930
    17 26 Granada - Frank Sinatra 24 20 890
    NEW 27 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 22 28 810
    24 28 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 25 21 780
    NEW 29 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 22 720
    26 30 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 27 18 710
    The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 25 480
    Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 28 240
    Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 23 240
    Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 30 26 230
    Cryin' - Roy Orbison 25 180
    That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 29 60

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Agreed. There was an interview with Jacobs in Disc where he talked about 'recording' a POTP, which struck me as strange, so I dug further. Of course, with Freeman now doing them live they could have changed back to including RM.

    On the NME ties, even if the points were closer together the number one would still be the least likely to have a tie. So if there were ten ties for number 1, you would expect more for number 2, more still for number 3 and so on. So for number one I thought NME might take the attitude: 'The difference in points is not enough to indicate conclusively enough which sold the most of all, so we shall tie them." Otherwise I don't know how there could have been so many cases with exactly the same points, unless their sample size was way lower than supposed.
    Last edited by Splodj; Fri February 26, 2021, 01:53.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Per my #1's and Top 10 peaks research of the 60s several years ago, RM was a very strong chart Mar 1960 - Mar 1962, it terms of its record peak positions being closest to the average of all 5 big charts of the day. Tied for 1st place with MM for fewest outliers peak to average, tied for 2nd place with the most inliers peak to average. And in 2nd place behind MM in terms of shortest distance from peak to average, across all 209 Top 10 records during the period.

    It's a shame that the BBC kicked them out of their average calcs in 1960. They should have tried harder to keep them in it somehow, but alas the BBC did not know at the time how good RM was...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That was surely a decision made for all the wrong reasons. A robust chart if taken seriously should have taken precedence. This in itself indicates the BBC did not take their own chart all that seriously.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    David Jacobs sometimes recorded POTP on Thursday. That explains why Chinnery dropped RM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    Emperor Rosco here on Radio Luxembourg in Paris ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ66...SSK89qRwa0zqAg

    He has posted that this shows Derek Chinnery (I assume that is him lurking around at 1.30-40) who was there to ask Rosco to do a show for the upcoming Radio 1. Rosco agreed and recorded the show each week in that Paris studio and sent it over.
    That's a good clip thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Even though there were 200,000 advance orders and it has now reached number one, Walking Back To Happiness not did receive a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales until 4th November 1961.

    Even though A Scottish Soldier only reached no. 19 in RR it remained in their chart for 40 weeks and it eventually received a Silver Disc on 18th November 1961 for 250,000 sales.
    I suppose it maybe depended on when the record company submitted their request to Disc for certification.

    I don't doubt Andy Stewart eventually sold that figure bit I can't believe that amount of people would actually buy it.

    I will correct that spelling error thanks Brian.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    The Radio Luxembourg DJ's were really good, Bob Stewart, Paul Burnett, Tony Prince, Emperor Rosco.
    Emperor Rosco here on Radio Luxembourg in Paris ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ66...SSK89qRwa0zqAg

    He has posted that this shows Derek Chinnery (I assume that is him lurking around at 1.30-40) who was there to ask Rosco to do a show for the upcoming Radio 1. Rosco agreed and recorded the show each week in that Paris studio and sent it over.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Even though there were 200,000 advance orders and it has now reached number one, Walking Back To Happiness not did receive a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales until 4th November 1961.

    Even though A Scottish Soldier only reached no. 19 in RR it remained in their chart for 40 weeks and it eventually received a Silver Disc on 18th November 1961 for 250,000 sales.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Even with split sides Cliff enters at no. 4 in NME but only no. 22 in RR.

    My Boomerand Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake.

    I think that should be Boomerang.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 21st 1961



    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 21st 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    1 2 Michael - The Highwaymen 3 3 3 2 3 2 9380
    5 3 Wild Wind - John Leyton 2 2 2 3 2 6 9340
    6 4 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 4 5 4 4 4 5 8800
    8 5 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 5 6 5 6 5 13 8150
    3 6 Jealousy - Billy Fury 6 6 7 7 6 4 8140
    4 7 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 7 8 8 5 8 3 8070
    12 8 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 10 9 9 9 13 7 7120
    7 9 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 11 12 10 8 12 10 6890
    16 10 Bless You - Tony Orlando 9 10 11 10 9 11 6890
    NEW 11 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 8 4 6 15 7 22 6890
    10 12 Together - Connie Francis 12 17 12 11 11 9 6120
    11 13 Get Lost - Eden Kane 13= 13 14 13 14 12 5860
    15 14 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 13= 16 16 14 10 17 5440
    26 15 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 15 11 13 17 16 26 5120
    9 16 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 16 24 15 12 15 8 5100
    14 17 Granada - Frank Sinatra 19 17 20 18 15 3460
    NEW 18 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 17= 15 18 19 3310
    23 19 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 17= 14 18 17 2840
    17 20 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 17 19 21 2460
    25 21 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 20 26 16 30 2080
    21 22 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 28 20 20 19 1810
    NEW 23 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 22 19 1440
    20 24 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 19 23 1200
    19 25 Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 21 20 1130
    13 26 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 25 14 990
    22 27 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 20 29 940
    18 28 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 28 16 690
    30 29 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 18 390
    NEW 30 The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 27 320
    Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 23
    Ain't Gonna Wash For A Week - The Brook Brothers 24 210
    Cryin' - Roy Orbison 25 180
    Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 27 120
    Hard Hearted Hannah / Chilli Bom-Bom - The Temperance Seven 28 90
    Come September - Bobby Darin 30 80

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    ^
    Both instrumentals too.
    Yeah a rare feat and both excellent tunes too

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    ^
    Both instrumentals too.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is another joint NME #1

    May 12th 1962
    Wonderful Land and Nut Rocker

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 14th 1961


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 14th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Michael - The Highwaymen* 1 4 3 1 1 1 9540
    6 2 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro* 2 1 1 3 3 2 9550
    5 3 Jealousy - Billy Fury 6 5 4 4 5 4 8780
    2 4 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 5 6 7 2 6 3 8720
    13 5 Wild Wind - John Leyton 3 2 2 7 2 12 8720
    7 6 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 4 3 5 6 4 7 8620
    3 7 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 7 9 6 5 9 8 7910
    14 8 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 8 7 8 9 8 13 7410
    4 9 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 9 13 9 8 7 5 7270
    11 10 Together - Connie Francis 10 10 10 10 10 6 7050
    8 11 Get Lost - Eden Kane 11 10 11 11 11 11 6680
    10 12 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 12 8 14 12 12 9 6560
    9 13 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 14 18 12 14 13 10 5580
    15 14 Granada - Frank Sinatra 13 12 13 17 14 17 5410
    NEW 15 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 16 16 18 16 18 18 4670
    23 16 Bless You - Tony Orlando 17 14 19 19 19 20 4330
    16 17 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 19 23 16 15 20 16 4300
    12 18 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 15 20 13 16 14 4120
    17 19 Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 18 21 18 17 21 3230
    NEW 20 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 18 15 24 2210
    20 21 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 24 15 15 1840
    NEW 22 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 22 17 1560
    NEW 23 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 20 15 1280
    18 24 Hard Hearted Hannah / Chilli Bom-Bom - The Temperance Seven 25 20 28 1230
    NEW 25 A Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 20 1210
    NEW 26 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 17 1120
    24 27 Cupid - Sam Cooke 27 23 560
    NEW 28 Cryin' - Roy Orbison 26 29 460
    19 29 Ain't Gonna Wah For A Week - The Brook Brothers 29 22 430
    22 30 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 360
    * Helen most points, Highwaymen #1 most charts, both draw on chart position points 10, but Highwaymen best profile 1 1 1 , to Helen 1 1 2.
    Amor - Ben E. King 28 240
    Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 25 180
    Breakaway - The Springfields 29 160
    Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 26 150
    How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 27 120
    You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Re those NME ties, and particularly the 9 ties at number 1, I wonder if NME had a policy of making ties if the points were close - not just when they were exactly the same.
    I wouldn't think so Splodj. A practice like that would be detrimental to the credibility of the chart. I think it is more likely that NME maybe just continued to poll , say, only the top ten best selling records in its store samples so the points would be much closer together. As they gathered this info by telephone I can't see stores going through a list of 30 or 50 records.

    Leave a comment:

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