The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[braindeadpj]

That's unusual. Two lots of tied points (3 & 4 and 8 & 9) in the top 10 (both split by MM position). Is that a first?

[MrTibbs]

I used the same criteria as I always do for tied points Brian, that being, which had most points from the music paper with most returns. As Helen placed higher in MM she was awarded the higher place. The BBC average was only taken from NME, MM, and Disc at this time with RM and RR not included.

[brian05]

	3	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					4	5	4	4	5	3	8810
	4	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					3	3	5	5	3	6	8810

What criteria was used to separate songs with the same number of points?
How come the BBC order was reversed?

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 13th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 13th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Blue Moon - The Marcels					1	1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven					2	2	2	2	2	2	9570
4	3	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					4	5	4	4	5	3	8810
8	4	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					3	3	5	5	3	6	8810
3	5	Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley					5	8	3	3	4	5	8730
14	6	More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee					6	6	6	8	6	4	8090
11	7	Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy					7	7	8	9	9	7	7540
7	8	A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas					9	14	10	6	7	9	7230
21	9	Runaway - Del Shannon					8	4	7	12	11	13	7230
6	10	Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard					10	12	17	7	8	11	6750
10	11	Warpaint - The Brook Brothers					11	15	11	10	10	8	6530
NEW	12	The Frightened City - The Shadows					12=	9	9	14	16	19	6060
12	13	African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth					14	10	12	15	17	10	5910
17	14	Easy Going Me - Adam Faith					12=	11	14	16	12	14	5730
9	15	Are You Sure - The Allisons					15=	20	15	11	14	18	5280
5	16	Lazy River - Bobby Darin					15=	17	19	13	15	16	5070
26	17	What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis					17	12	13	18	18	21	4980
13	18	Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette					18	19	16	17	13	12	4870
15	19	Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher					19	15	20	20	20	15	4180
16	20	Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis						26		19		17	2140
NEW	21	Have A Drink On Me - Lonnie Donegan						23	18		19		2020
NEW	22	I Still Love You All - Kenny Ball					20	18					1040
24	23	How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson						22				23	960
28	24	But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry						21				28	890
23	25	Samantha - Kenny Ball						25				24	690
27	26	Mother-In-Law - Ernie K-Doe						24					560
19	27	F.B.I. - The Shadows						29				20	490
NEW	28	You'll Never Know - Shirley Bassey						27					320
20	29	And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley										22	270
NEW	30	Words - The Allisons						28					240
		A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart										25	180
		The Magnificent Seven - The John Barry Seven						29					160
		My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra						29					160
		(I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney										26	150
		Walk Right Back / Ebony Eyes - The Everly Brothers										27	120
		Theme For A Dream - Cliff Richard										29	60
		My Kind Of Girl - Matt Monro										30	30

[Graham76man]

The Marcels leap frog The Temperance Seven to take #1. The Marcels meet the 2 out of 3 point rule to do this. Although fewer points, they are #1 in 3 of the 5 charts, and are closest to the top by having 8 points to 9 points in the music paper chart add up.

And they were the best selling "sales" based record that week and next week also

So Speaks the Voice of God!

[kingofskiffle]

Thank you for doing that . I'd encourage as many as possible to do it!

[kingofskiffle]

No he is not a mod - I'm not keen on the comment function myself but I can see how it can add when it is a small point that is required to be added to a specific post.

[MrTibbs]

The Marcels leap frog The Temperance Seven to take #1. The Marcels meet the 2 out of 3 point rule to do this. Although fewer points, they are #1 in 3 of the 5 charts, and are closest to the top by having 8 points to 9 points in the music paper chart add up.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 6th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 6th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
4	1	Blue Moon - The Marcels					1=	1	2	3	1	1	9620
2	2	You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven					1=	2	1	1	2	3	9710
1	3	Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley					3	3	3	2	3	2	9380
12	4	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					7	8	4	6	9	7	8030
5	5	Lazy River - Bobby Darin					5	4	10	5	11	12	7850
6	6	Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard					9	9	9	7	8	4	7680
11	7	A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas					4	7	8	9	4	11	7670
17	8	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					6	6	5	10	6	15	7600
3	9	Are You Sure - The Allisons					8	12	12	4	7	6	7580
7	10	Warpaint - The Brook Brothers					11	13	6	8	5	5	7550
9	11	Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy					10	5	7	11	10	8	7460
15	12	African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth					12	11	11	12	12	9	6500
18	13	Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette					13=	15	13	14	13	14	5640
NEW	14	More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee					13=	13	15	15	14	13	5550
10	15	Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher					15	9	17	18	16	16	5230
14	16	Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis					17=	17	19	16	18	10	4770
25	17	Easy Going Me - Adam Faith					16	16	16	17	15	23	4680
8	18	Walk Right Back / Ebony Eyes - The Everly Brothers					17=	26	18	13	17	18	4250
19	19	F.B.I. - The Shadows						24		19	20	20	2760
16	20	And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley					19=			20	19	19	2170
26	21	Runaway - Del Shannon					19=	18	14			28	2150
21	22	Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford						27	20			21	1280
22	23	Samantha - Kenny Ball						20				24	1090
24	24	How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson						19				27	1080
13	25	Theme For A Dream - Cliff Richard						25				17	900
NEW	26	What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis						21					800
NEW	27	Mother-In-Law - Ernie K-Doe						22					720
NEW	28	But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry						23					640
20	29	My Kind Of Girl - Matt Monro										22	270
NEW	30	My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra						28					240
		Will You Love Me Tomorrow - The Shirelles										25	180
		The Magnificent Seven - Al Caiola						29					160
		Coronation Street - Geoff Love						29					160
		A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart										26	150
		Wheels - The String-A-Longs										29	60
		(I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney										30	30

[MrTibbs]

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/ukmix/ha...rship-now-open

£12 a year. Bargain

I just noticed that this facility was available again Brain so that's my premium membership up and running again. Thanks for the prompt.

[BrainDamageII]

I didn't know there were premium members. So what is a premium member and what is the criteria to become one ?

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/ukmix/ha...rship-now-open

£12 a year. Bargain

[MrTibbs]

Well there was this post ...
https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...6#post10492296

It appeared shortly after I had posted my research into the best sellers of 1967 and the Voice of God stamped it rubbish!

I Like it.

[MrTibbs]

Premium members have the facility to comment

I didn't know there were premium members. So what is a premium member and what is the criteria to become one ?

[BrainDamageII]

Premium members have the facility to comment

[Splodj]

Well there was this post ...
https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...6#post10492296

It appeared shortly after I had posted my research into the best sellers of 1967 and the Voice of God stamped it rubbish!

[MrTibbs]

I don't think moderator privileges should be used in this way. It looks like posts are being denounced by the Voice of God!

Is Graham a Moderator though Splodj, he is not listed on the site list of Moderators as one ?

[MrTibbs]

It should be by Freddy Cannon, you've got it right on the 29th April.

I've corrected that name Woz. Thanks.

[Splodj]

Graham how do you make comments on posts like you just did ?

I don't think moderator privileges should be used in this way. It looks like posts are being denounced by the Voice of God!

[Woz1234]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 22nd 1961

The Muskrat Rumble - Johnny Burnette

It should be by Freddy Cannon, you've got it right on the 29th April.

[MrTibbs]

Graham how do you make comments on posts like you just did ?

[MrTibbs]

' It was more or less down to the charts being run by the Music Industry as they still are. And if you let any body with a vested interest compile statistics then it will show what they want to show. So for example if the police do crime figures they will show higher levels. Since if the figures were lower they would loose funding.'

Yip that was my point exactly Graham, the charts once reflecting public popularity are now what The Music Industry wants them to be basically a 'puppet' under their control.

The points system was fine for the time it did reflect to a fair degree of accuracy within its limitations as to what was popular and selling.
But even when the BMRB sales chart came on board the chart even with sales was no more precise than the points charts had been, plus by that time the Music Industry well and truly had their claws on it.

It's even worse now with the waters muddied with downloads and streaming, worse even than points and sales, and manipulated more than at any other time. Sad indeed to see what the chart has evolved into.
Also, strictly speaking it is actually now a 'song' chart not a singles chart.

[Graham76man]

What you are saying is fine as long as all the charts you are using agree. But in the situation outlined previous showed they did not agree. Then you have to have agreement on them all positions away from the top spot and that's rare. But say one shop does have a number one on 100 sales, but three shops each selling 25 have a different number, but the same in those three shops. The points system then screws up.
And the hyping was happening by 1955 when sales took off. Brian Epstein was accused of hyping the first Beatles single for example.
The problem with the charts after 1969 wasn't haphazard checking. It was more or less down to the charts being run by the Music Industry as they still are. And if you let any body with a vested interest compile statistics then it will show what they want to show. So for example if the police do crime figures they will show higher levels. Since if the figures were lower they would loose funding.

[Graham76man]

The Sun paper was based on a small sample and when the record survey was done all the other charts had much greater samples. There were many different sized shops back then some much larger than others. One record shop could sell say 100 records and another 1,000 in a week. It wouldn't have made much difference to the sales even if they had one Woolies shop on the panel as that would still only contribute 50 points max. Plus the records would be all Embassy Label and I suspect that one shop could not have even made a top 30 chart with just 50 points. Records don't make it with lots of shops backing them.

[MrTibbs]

Ha ! Elvis reclaims #1 how many of you saw that coming

The Marcels and The Temperance Seven close in though. Both still have their eye on claiming the #1 prize.
And in at #26, a seemingly insignificant entry from Del Shannon will be one of the biggies of the year.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 29th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 29th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley					1	2	1	1	1	1	9820
4	2	You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven					2	1	1	3	2	4	9540
1	3	Are You Sure - The Allisons					4	5	4	2	4	3	9080
7	4	Blue Moon - The Marcels					3	3	3	4	3	7	9010
5	5	Lazy River - Bobby Darin					5	4	5	5	5	2	8750
13	6	Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard					6	6	8	9	7	6	7750
12	7	Warpaint - The Brook Brothers					7	14	7	7	6	9	7350
3	8	Walk Right Back / Ebony Eyes - The Everly Brothers					8	15	13	6	8	8	6950
20	9	Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy					11	9	6	13	11	18	6630
9	10	Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher					9	7	14	14	9	10	6540
18	11	A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas					10	8	11	10	13	22	6520
22	12	Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro					13	10	9	11	16	15	6430
6	13	Theme For A Dream - Cliff Richard					12	13	17	8	14	11	6260
11	14	Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis					15	11	16	17	15	5	5620
17	15	African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth					16	12	12	15	18	17	5490
8	16	And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley					14	20	19	12	10	14	5250
NEW	17	On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer					18=	16	10	19	19	23	4620
21	18	Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette					18=	17	15	20	17	21	4290
10	19	F.B.I. - The Shadows					17	21		18	12	13	3720
14	20	My Kind Of Girl - Matt Monro					20	25	18	16		16	3360
19	21	Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford						23	20		20	19	2210
16	22	Samantha - Kenny Ball						19				20	1290
15	23	Will You Love Me Tomorrow - The Shirelles						24				12	1130
27	24	How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson						18				30	1070
NEW	25	Easy Going Me - Adam Faith						22					720
NEW	26	Runaway - Del Shannon						25					480
29	27	Seventy Six Trombones - The King Brothers						27					320
NEW	28	Coronation Street - Geoff Love						27					320
30	29	Marry Me - Mike Preston										24	210
25	30	Wheels - The String-A-Longs										25	180
		The Muskrat Rumble - Freddy Cannon						29					160
		(I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney										26	150
		More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee						30				29	140
		(Ghost) Riders In The Sky - The Ramrods										27	120
		Who Am I / This Is It - Adam Faith										28	90