The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Graham Betts' book Official Charts And Hits The Fifties may solve this. His chart for 9th January agrees totally with the NME book as you posted above Lonnie. Mills Brothers entering at 10. BUT his chart for 23rd January only agrees up to #9 with one omission. Then he lists :

6 RE Max Bygraves - Cowpuncher's Cantata (joint six with Louis Armstrong)
10 RE Nat King Cole - Because You're Mine
11 10 Tony Brent - Walkin' To Missouri
12 NE Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours
12 NE Tony Brent - Got You On My Mind
12 12 Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains

So it would appear the NME book is wrong here and The Mills Brothers did indeed chart on 9th January.

[kingofskiffle]

Actual Graham, the Glow Work/Worm is down to a new keyboard and auto correct.

The record should be on 30 Jan, as shown in scans at the time. If the source of the charts used to make the book was the NME book then errors occur. Hit Singles Vol 17 for example has the record down as entering on 9 Jan. Complete Book on 30 Jan. OCC website lists wrong. So I use this error see if I agree with the error checking nature of the publisher.

[kingofskiffle]

Graham Betts' book Official Charts And Hits The Fifties may solve this. His chart for 9th January agrees totally with the NME book as you posted above Lonnie. Mills Brothers entering at 10. BUT his chart for 23rd January only agrees up to #9. Then he lists :

10 RE Nat King Cole - Because You're Mine
11 10 Tony Brent - Walkin' To Missouri
12 NE Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours
12 NE Tony Brent - Got You On My Mind
12 12 Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains

So it would appear the NME book is wrong here and The Mills Brothers did indeed chart on 9th January.

Actually, the Graham Betts book is wrong here. We did discuss this error I think when creating the book.

[kingofskiffle]

NME Scans

9 Jan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jegxhgkd00...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
16 jan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w7pqr8tu9...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
23 Jan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16v97gx40b...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
30 Jan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8c0fn5fd9e...20Pop.pdf?dl=0

[MrTibbs]

The NME book also appears to be wrong for 7th February. Graham Betts' book again lists the correct chart. NME book omitted Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains from joint #10, and, Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours at #8.

And on 20th December 1952 the NME book also omits Kay Starr - Comes Along A Love climbing from #6 to joint #3.

[MrTibbs]

Actually, the Graham Betts book is wrong here. We did discuss this error I think when creating the book.

I'm disappointed to hear that, I accepted Graham's book as the more accurate volume over the NME book.

[kingofskiffle]

I'm disappointed to hear that, I accepted Graham's book as the more accurate volume over the NME book.

It is! That is the single error I've found in the whole lot. He has even gone away and added in the proper 1960's album charts and made so many corrections over previous stuff. I'm not going to say it's error free (What work is?) but that's literally the only one I know of.

[MrTibbs]

It is! That is the single error I've found in the whole lot. He has even gone away and added in the proper 1960's album charts and made so many corrections over previous stuff. I'm not going to say it's error free (What work is?) but that's literally the only one I know of.

That's reassuring Lonnie, before I commenced the Ultimate Averaged Chart I got really annoyed when discovering chart position errors in books and ranted about 'carelessness'. I know different now. For all the checking I do with each UAC before posting occasional errors slip through the net and thankfully get picked up for correction despite all my best efforts. So I now understand how difficult it is to totally eradicate errors.

I think there is an acceptable level of margin for error in any book containing thousands and thousands of numbers but some publications had so many errors that it was really just sloppy compilation with little checking.

[Metalweb]

The problem with the NME book seems to be that there's no way to tell what's an error and what's a deliberate change to the original charts!

We may suspect Glow Worm on 10 Jan is simply a mistake but we don't know for sure...

[Splodj]

Another problem may be that even if it was a deliberate change we don't know if it was a correct one!

Personally I suspect there were many errors in the NME charts (just look at the extraordinary number of highly placed ties) but doubt that the evidence to correct them properly was kept.

[kingofskiffle]

The high tie count is probably down to sample size. Realistically, how many shops did they call in 1952? If they only phoned London then the likely hood is that the same records would sell in roughly equal amounts so when you turn that into points you get ties.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 7th 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

As mentioned yesterday Melody Maker joins in this week so we now have 3 charts inputing to The UAC from this week. Also next week NME moves to a Top 30 so from April 14th the UAC will publish a Top 30.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 7th 1956							NME	RM	MM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	60	20	Points
Week	Week		The Top 25 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
2	1	It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers					1	2	1	4290
3	2	Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell					2	1	4	4225
1	3	Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr					3	3	2	4080
7	4	Memories Are Made Of This - Dave King					5	5	2	3830
4	5	Zambesi - Lou Busch					6	4	5	3765
5	6	Only You - The Hilltoppers					4	6	6	3755
8	7	See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets					7	8	7	3420
6	8	Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin					8	7	8	3395
9	9	Chain Gang - Jimmy Young					10	9	9	3125
11	10	The Great Pretender - Jimmy Parkinson					9	10	13	3050
12	11	Band Of Gold - Don Cherry					13	12	10	2730
10	12	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - The Dick Hyman Trio					11	12	20	2660
14	13	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Billy Vaughn					12	16	12	2515
13	14	Zambesi - Eddie Calvert					13	14	18	2450
22	15	My September Love - David Whitfield					16	17	19	2055
17	16	Willie Can - Alma Cogan					17	15		1870
18	17	I'm A Fool - Slim Whitman						11	11	1600
15	18	Jimmy Unknown - Lita Roza					15		17	1320
21	19	Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan						19	14	1060
24	20	A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer						19	15	1040
NEW	21	The Italian Theme - Cyril Stapleton					18			845
20	22	Seven Days - Anne Shelton						17		840
19	23	The Trouble With Harry - Alfi and Harry					19			780
RE	24	Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell					20			715
RE	25	(Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra							16	300
16		Young And Foolish - Edmund Hockridge
23		Nothin' To Do - Michael Holliday
		* Melody Maker starts to compile a Top 20 from this week.
		* Sample sizes for NME and RM increased slightly this week in line with Alan Smith's research.

[Graham76man]

The high tie count is probably down to sample size. Realistically, how many shops did they call in 1952? If they only phoned London then the likely hood is that the same records would sell in roughly equal amounts so when you turn that into points you get ties.

It could be worse than that. If you remember Colin Brown (who help create the missing charts book) said the NME chart was totally made up by the "office girls".
As his distribution chart finished within a week or two before the first NME chart came out, it's hard to say if the NME chart was any good. However comparing it with the last distribution chart, it certainly bears no resemblance to what the dealers were ordering in large numbers. Prior to the end of the lists, the new records were coming out in droves each month. But the subsequent NME charts for the year of 1952 are extremely devoid of new hits. Leading to two conclusions. Either the NME chart was really badly put together. Or the dealers were ordering lots of records that just sold hardly anything.
I know which conclusion I would go along with, but a lot of others might go with the other.

[Splodj]

We started counting NME's joint number ones back around page 70 and came up with 10 of them. 7 of the 10 were in the 1960s, so it extended to a time when they were claiming to use a high sample that would make this extremely unlikely. There may be a rational explanation, but NME were rather secretive about their processes.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 14th 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 14th 1956							NME	RM	MM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	60	20	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell					1	1	2	4330
1	2	It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers					2	2	1	4225
3	3	Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr					3	3	3	4060
5	4	Zambesi - Lou Busch					5	4	5	3830
6	5	Only You - The Hilltoppers					4	6	6	3755
4	6	Memories Are Made Of This - Dave King					6	5	4	3725
8	7	Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin					7	7	8	3460
7	8	See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets					8	7	7	3415
12	9	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - The Dick Hyman Trio					9	9	15	3070
10	10	The Great Pretender - Jimmy Parkinson					10	11	12	2945
15	11	My September Love - David Whitfield					11	12	18	2700
20	12	A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer					18	10	10	2525
9	13	Chain Gang - Jimmy Young					15	16	14	2280
16	14	Willie Can - Alma Cogan					13	14		2190
17	15	I'm A Fool - Slim Whitman					19	17	11	2020
19	16	Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan					16	15		1935
11	17	Band Of Gold - Don Cherry					17	18	19	1930
NEW	18	You Can't Be True To Two - Dave King					25	12	13	1890
13	19	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Billy Vaughn					12		9	1675
22	20	Seven Days - Anne Shelton					24	19		1175
14	21	Zambesi - Eddie Calvert					14			1105
RE	22	Nothin' To Do - Michael Holliday						20	19	900
18	23	Jimmy Unknown - Lita Roza					20			715
NEW	24	In A Little Spanish Town - Bing Crosby						20		660
23	25	The Trouble With Harry - Alfi and Harry					21			650
NEW	26	No Other Love - The Johnston Brothers					22			585
21	27	The Italian Theme - Cyril Stapleton					23			520
24	28	Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell					26			325
NEW	29	The Great Pretender - Jackie Riggs							15	320
RE	29	The Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Bill Hayes							15	320
		Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Louis Armstrong					27			260
		Young And Foolish - Edmund Hockridge					28			195
		Come Next Spring - Tony Bennett					29			130
		Willie Can - The Beverly Sisters					30			65
25		(Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra
		* NME starts to compile a Top 30 from this week.

[Splodj]

I've been looking more closely at the 'Pick Of The Pops' playlists on Popscene. At this time POTP comprised only new releases - i.e. non-needletime records.

From 29-Sep-57 they adopted a new policy of playing the Top 3 and all the records that had moved up in the rest of the Top 20. This meant that new releases were reduced from all to about half of the programme. The Top 3 were branded BBC, calculated by averaging the 3 charts, whereas individual music paper chart positions were given for the others.

Then on 23-Mar-58 the BBC Top 20 was introduced. However the format of the show (Top 3 plus 4-20 risers) remained exactly the same right up to the end of 1959. So all that really happened on that date is that the whole Top 20 became a composite. It may seem a significant change now, but at the time probably was hardly noticed by listeners; to them the big change would have been in Sep-57.

Another thing I notice is that for a long time after Mar-58 only POTP listings, rather than recordings, are available. If these are all that survive of the BBC Top 20 for that period then it means that about half the positions (4-20 fallers) are not from the original BBC archives but have been recreated since.

[kingofskiffle]

It’s probably that the paperwork for the chart was kept in the BBC Written Archive. They always seem to be most cautious on retaining paperwork. Look at the amount of written material that survives for Dr Who for example, vs the actual programme archive…. These types of programmes (POTP) would have been less likely to be recorded and preserved in the archive anyway, being very definitely ‘here for the week’.

[Splodj]

I would be pleasantly surprised if the BBC had filed those early charts.

With regard to Record Retailer, I believe it started as a monthly publication in 1959. Did it compile charts then and, if so, did they cover sales over the previous month or week? (Just wondered if every four weeks they produced a chart comparable with the others.)

[kingofskiffle]

No, the first RR chart was March 1960. The monthly issues had no sales chart as far as I can recall.

[kjell]

Yeah, Mar 10 according to my memory.

[Graham76man]

I have been looking at the March 1956 releases on 45 Worlds and discovered that Elvis Presley - Heartbreak Hotel was released that month. But as yet no chart appearance, can anyone explain that?

[MrTibbs]

Yeah, Mar 10 according to my memory.

Agree, RR did not compile a monthly chart. First chart was definitely March 10th 1960.

As to BBC fifties charts, I wonder then what was the source of Dave Taylor and Trevors complete BBC charts for their listing of that time. Dave seemed to suggest if I remember a discussion we had correctly that these were sourced directly from the BBC archives.

[Splodj]

I have been looking at the March 1956 releases on 45 Worlds and discovered that Elvis Presley - Heartbreak Hotel was released that month. But as yet no chart appearance, can anyone explain that?

Until it reached number one in the USA, I doubt that many in the UK had heard of Presley.

[Graham76man]

As Record Retailer was for Record Shops, I suppose the main advantage of having it monthly was a list of the new records it contained, which would have been an advantage to the shops. Record companies would have sent out leaflets of the new stock, but that would have been on lots of different ones. Having the paper print them all they could see at a glance what was due out, without going through stacks of paperwork. Since records were only released in the first two weeks of the start of the month, a weekly paper wasn't need. But by 1960 records companies were slowly switching to the Friday once a week day. So the paper needed to go weekly.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 21st 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 21st 1956							NME	RM	MM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	60	20	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell					1	1	2	4330
2	2	It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers					3	2	1	4160
3	3	Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr					2	3	3	4125
5	4	Only You - The Hilltoppers					4	4	4	3915
4	5	Zambesi - Lou Busch					7	5	6	3620
7	6	Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin					5	7	7	3610
6	7	Memories Are Made Of This - Dave King					6	7	5	3585
8	8	See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets					8	6	9	3435
11	9	My September Love - David Whitfield					8	9	12	3195
9	10	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - The Dick Hyman Trio					10	11	10	2985
12	11	A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer					11	13	8	2840
14	12	Willie Can - Alma Cogan					13	14	15	2510
18	13	You Can't Be True To Two - Dave King					18	10	14	2445
NEW	14	No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton					15	12	19	2420
15	15	I'm A Fool - Slim Whitman					16	16	11	2275
NEW	16	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Louis Armstrong					14	15		2065
10	17	The Great Pretender - Jimmy Parkinson					12		13	1595
20	18	Seven Days - Anne Shelton					20	18		1495
19	19	Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Billy Vaughn					17		16	1210
22	20	Nothin' To Do - Michael Holliday						16	17	1180
NEW	21	I'll Be Home - Pat Boone						19	18	980
NEW	22	Ain't Misbehavin' - Johnnie Ray					19			780
16	23	Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan					30	20		725
17	24	Band Of Gold - Don Cherry					20			715
13	25	Chain Gang - Jimmy Young					22			585
28	26	Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell					23			520
NEW	27	Willie Can - The Beverly Sisters					24			455
21	28	Zambezi - Eddie Calvert					25			390
23	29	Jimmy Unknown - Lita Roza					26			325
NEW	30	Stewball - Lonnie Donegan					27			260
		Juke Box Baby - Perry Como							20	220
		In A Persian Market - Sammy Davis Jnr					28			195
25		The Trouble With Harry - Alfi and Harry					29			130
24		In A Little Spanish Town - Bing Crosby
26		No Other Love - The Johnston Brothers
27		The Italian Theme - Cyril Stapleton
29		The Great Pretender - Jackie Riggs
29		The Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Bill Hayes