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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • I am confused! Does the original NME of 9 January list the record or not?
    I'm guessing it doesn't, since the British Hit Singles book people would have been working with original papers and they have it listed on the 30 January.

    Footnote: IF the record was an addition, it would have to have been issued in December of 1952 (nearly all records were released in the first two weeks of the month at this point). The 45 Worlds 78 section shows it was.
    http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/05007

    A late January entry would have been odd for a December record, but it could happen.
    Last edited by Graham76man; Mon October 4, 2021, 10:31. Reason: Extra information
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

    Comment


    • Graham Betts' book Official Charts And Hits The Fifties may solve this. His chart for 9th January agrees totally with the NME book as you posted above Lonnie. Mills Brothers entering at 10. BUT his chart for 23rd January only agrees up to #9 with one omission. Then he lists :

      6 RE Max Bygraves - Cowpuncher's Cantata (joint six with Louis Armstrong)
      10 RE Nat King Cole - Because You're Mine
      11 10 Tony Brent - Walkin' To Missouri
      12 NE Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours
      12 NE Tony Brent - Got You On My Mind
      12 12 Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains

      So it would appear the NME book is wrong here and The Mills Brothers did indeed chart on 9th January.
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

      Comment


      • Actual Graham, the Glow Work/Worm is down to a new keyboard and auto correct.

        The record should be on 30 Jan, as shown in scans at the time. If the source of the charts used to make the book was the NME book then errors occur. Hit Singles Vol 17 for example has the record down as entering on 9 Jan. Complete Book on 30 Jan. OCC website lists wrong. So I use this error see if I agree with the error checking nature of the publisher.
        http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
        Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
          Graham Betts' book Official Charts And Hits The Fifties may solve this. His chart for 9th January agrees totally with the NME book as you posted above Lonnie. Mills Brothers entering at 10. BUT his chart for 23rd January only agrees up to #9. Then he lists :

          10 RE Nat King Cole - Because You're Mine
          11 10 Tony Brent - Walkin' To Missouri
          12 NE Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours
          12 NE Tony Brent - Got You On My Mind
          12 12 Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains

          So it would appear the NME book is wrong here and The Mills Brothers did indeed chart on 9th January.
          Actually, the Graham Betts book is wrong here. We did discuss this error I think when creating the book.
          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

          Comment


          • NME Scans

            9 Jan
            https://www.dropbox.com/s/jegxhgkd00...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
            16 jan
            https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w7pqr8tu9...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
            23 Jan
            https://www.dropbox.com/s/16v97gx40b...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
            30 Jan
            https://www.dropbox.com/s/8c0fn5fd9e...20Pop.pdf?dl=0
            http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
            Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

            Comment


            • The NME book also appears to be wrong for 7th February. Graham Betts' book again lists the correct chart. NME book omitted Nat King Cole - Faith Can Move Mountains from joint #10, and, Eddie Fisher - Everything I Have Is Yours at #8.

              And on 20th December 1952 the NME book also omits Kay Starr - Comes Along A Love climbing from #6 to joint #3.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                Actually, the Graham Betts book is wrong here. We did discuss this error I think when creating the book.
                I'm disappointed to hear that, I accepted Graham's book as the more accurate volume over the NME book.
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                  I'm disappointed to hear that, I accepted Graham's book as the more accurate volume over the NME book.
                  It is! That is the single error I've found in the whole lot. He has even gone away and added in the proper 1960's album charts and made so many corrections over previous stuff. I'm not going to say it's error free (What work is?) but that's literally the only one I know of.
                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                    It is! That is the single error I've found in the whole lot. He has even gone away and added in the proper 1960's album charts and made so many corrections over previous stuff. I'm not going to say it's error free (What work is?) but that's literally the only one I know of.
                    That's reassuring Lonnie, before I commenced the Ultimate Averaged Chart I got really annoyed when discovering chart position errors in books and ranted about 'carelessness'. I know different now. For all the checking I do with each UAC before posting occasional errors slip through the net and thankfully get picked up for correction despite all my best efforts. So I now understand how difficult it is to totally eradicate errors.

                    I think there is an acceptable level of margin for error in any book containing thousands and thousands of numbers but some publications had so many errors that it was really just sloppy compilation with little checking.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • The problem with the NME book seems to be that there's no way to tell what's an error and what's a deliberate change to the original charts!

                      We may suspect Glow Worm on 10 Jan is simply a mistake but we don't know for sure...

                      Comment


                      • Another problem may be that even if it was a deliberate change we don't know if it was a correct one!

                        ​​​​​​Personally I suspect there were many errors in the NME charts (just look at the extraordinary number of highly placed ties) but doubt that the evidence to correct them properly was kept.

                        Comment


                        • The high tie count is probably down to sample size. Realistically, how many shops did they call in 1952? If they only phoned London then the likely hood is that the same records would sell in roughly equal amounts so when you turn that into points you get ties.
                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                          Comment


                          • Greetings Pop Pickers

                            Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 7th 1956

                            Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                            As mentioned yesterday Melody Maker joins in this week so we now have 3 charts inputing to The UAC from this week. Also next week NME moves to a Top 30 so from April 14th the UAC will publish a Top 30.

                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 7th 1956 NME RM MM Total
                            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 60 20 Points
                            Week Week The Top 25 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                            2 1 It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers 1 2 1 4290
                            3 2 Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell 2 1 4 4225
                            1 3 Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr 3 3 2 4080
                            7 4 Memories Are Made Of This - Dave King 5 5 2 3830
                            4 5 Zambesi - Lou Busch 6 4 5 3765
                            5 6 Only You - The Hilltoppers 4 6 6 3755
                            8 7 See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets 7 8 7 3420
                            6 8 Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin 8 7 8 3395
                            9 9 Chain Gang - Jimmy Young 10 9 9 3125
                            11 10 The Great Pretender - Jimmy Parkinson 9 10 13 3050
                            12 11 Band Of Gold - Don Cherry 13 12 10 2730
                            10 12 Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - The Dick Hyman Trio 11 12 20 2660
                            14 13 Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Billy Vaughn 12 16 12 2515
                            13 14 Zambesi - Eddie Calvert 13 14 18 2450
                            22 15 My September Love - David Whitfield 16 17 19 2055
                            17 16 Willie Can - Alma Cogan 17 15 1870
                            18 17 I'm A Fool - Slim Whitman 11 11 1600
                            15 18 Jimmy Unknown - Lita Roza 15 17 1320
                            21 19 Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan 19 14 1060
                            24 20 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 19 15 1040
                            NEW 21 The Italian Theme - Cyril Stapleton 18 845
                            20 22 Seven Days - Anne Shelton 17 840
                            19 23 The Trouble With Harry - Alfi and Harry 19 780
                            RE 24 Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell 20 715
                            RE 25 (Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra 16 300
                            16 Young And Foolish - Edmund Hockridge
                            23 Nothin' To Do - Michael Holliday
                            * Melody Maker starts to compile a Top 20 from this week.
                            * Sample sizes for NME and RM increased slightly this week in line with Alan Smith's research.

                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                              The high tie count is probably down to sample size. Realistically, how many shops did they call in 1952? If they only phoned London then the likely hood is that the same records would sell in roughly equal amounts so when you turn that into points you get ties.
                              It could be worse than that. If you remember Colin Brown (who help create the missing charts book) said the NME chart was totally made up by the "office girls".
                              As his distribution chart finished within a week or two before the first NME chart came out, it's hard to say if the NME chart was any good. However comparing it with the last distribution chart, it certainly bears no resemblance to what the dealers were ordering in large numbers. Prior to the end of the lists, the new records were coming out in droves each month. But the subsequent NME charts for the year of 1952 are extremely devoid of new hits. Leading to two conclusions. Either the NME chart was really badly put together. Or the dealers were ordering lots of records that just sold hardly anything.
                              I know which conclusion I would go along with, but a lot of others might go with the other.
                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                              Comment


                              • We started counting NME's joint number ones back around page 70 and came up with 10 of them. 7 of the 10 were in the 1960s, so it extended to a time when they were claiming to use a high sample that would make this extremely unlikely. There may be a rational explanation, but NME were rather secretive about their processes.

                                Comment


                                • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 14th 1956

                                  Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 14th 1956 NME RM MM Total
                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 60 20 Points
                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                                  2 1 Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell 1 1 2 4330
                                  1 2 It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers 2 2 1 4225
                                  3 3 Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr 3 3 3 4060
                                  5 4 Zambesi - Lou Busch 5 4 5 3830
                                  6 5 Only You - The Hilltoppers 4 6 6 3755
                                  4 6 Memories Are Made Of This - Dave King 6 5 4 3725
                                  8 7 Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin 7 7 8 3460
                                  7 8 See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets 8 7 7 3415
                                  12 9 Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - The Dick Hyman Trio 9 9 15 3070
                                  10 10 The Great Pretender - Jimmy Parkinson 10 11 12 2945
                                  15 11 My September Love - David Whitfield 11 12 18 2700
                                  20 12 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 18 10 10 2525
                                  9 13 Chain Gang - Jimmy Young 15 16 14 2280
                                  16 14 Willie Can - Alma Cogan 13 14 2190
                                  17 15 I'm A Fool - Slim Whitman 19 17 11 2020
                                  19 16 Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan 16 15 1935
                                  11 17 Band Of Gold - Don Cherry 17 18 19 1930
                                  NEW 18 You Can't Be True To Two - Dave King 25 12 13 1890
                                  13 19 Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Billy Vaughn 12 9 1675
                                  22 20 Seven Days - Anne Shelton 24 19 1175
                                  14 21 Zambesi - Eddie Calvert 14 1105
                                  RE 22 Nothin' To Do - Michael Holliday 20 19 900
                                  18 23 Jimmy Unknown - Lita Roza 20 715
                                  NEW 24 In A Little Spanish Town - Bing Crosby 20 660
                                  23 25 The Trouble With Harry - Alfi and Harry 21 650
                                  NEW 26 No Other Love - The Johnston Brothers 22 585
                                  21 27 The Italian Theme - Cyril Stapleton 23 520
                                  24 28 Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell 26 325
                                  NEW 29 The Great Pretender - Jackie Riggs 15 320
                                  RE 29 The Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Bill Hayes 15 320
                                  Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Louis Armstrong 27 260
                                  Young And Foolish - Edmund Hockridge 28 195
                                  Come Next Spring - Tony Bennett 29 130
                                  Willie Can - The Beverly Sisters 30 65
                                  25 (Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra
                                  * NME starts to compile a Top 30 from this week.
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • I've been looking more closely at the 'Pick Of The Pops' playlists on Popscene. At this time POTP comprised only new releases - i.e. non-needletime records.

                                    From 29-Sep-57 they adopted a new policy of playing the Top 3 and all the records that had moved up in the rest of the Top 20. This meant that new releases were reduced from all to about half of the programme. The Top 3 were branded BBC, calculated by averaging the 3 charts, whereas individual music paper chart positions were given for the others.

                                    Then on 23-Mar-58 the BBC Top 20 was introduced. However the format of the show (Top 3 plus 4-20 risers) remained exactly the same right up to the end of 1959. So all that really happened on that date is that the whole Top 20 became a composite. It may seem a significant change now, but at the time probably was hardly noticed by listeners; to them the big change would have been in Sep-57.

                                    Another thing I notice is that for a long time after Mar-58 only POTP listings, rather than recordings, are available. If these are all that survive of the BBC Top 20 for that period then it means that about half the positions (4-20 fallers) are not from the original BBC archives but have been recreated since.

                                    Comment


                                    • It’s probably that the paperwork for the chart was kept in the BBC Written Archive. They always seem to be most cautious on retaining paperwork. Look at the amount of written material that survives for Dr Who for example, vs the actual programme archive…. These types of programmes (POTP) would have been less likely to be recorded and preserved in the archive anyway, being very definitely ‘here for the week’.
                                      http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                      Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                      Comment


                                      • I would be pleasantly surprised if the BBC had filed those early charts.

                                        With regard to Record Retailer, I believe it started as a monthly publication in 1959. Did it compile charts then and, if so, did they cover sales over the previous month or week? (Just wondered if every four weeks they produced a chart comparable with the others.)

                                        Comment


                                        • No, the first RR chart was March 1960. The monthly issues had no sales chart as far as I can recall.
                                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                          Comment


                                          • Yeah, Mar 10 according to my memory.

                                            Comment


                                            • I have been looking at the March 1956 releases on 45 Worlds and discovered that Elvis Presley - Heartbreak Hotel was released that month. But as yet no chart appearance, can anyone explain that?
                                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by kjell View Post
                                                Yeah, Mar 10 according to my memory.
                                                Agree, RR did not compile a monthly chart. First chart was definitely March 10th 1960.

                                                As to BBC fifties charts, I wonder then what was the source of Dave Taylor and Trevors complete BBC charts for their listing of that time. Dave seemed to suggest if I remember a discussion we had correctly that these were sourced directly from the BBC archives.
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                                                  I have been looking at the March 1956 releases on 45 Worlds and discovered that Elvis Presley - Heartbreak Hotel was released that month. But as yet no chart appearance, can anyone explain that?
                                                  Until it reached number one in the USA, I doubt that many in the UK had heard of Presley.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • As Record Retailer was for Record Shops, I suppose the main advantage of having it monthly was a list of the new records it contained, which would have been an advantage to the shops. Record companies would have sent out leaflets of the new stock, but that would have been on lots of different ones. Having the paper print them all they could see at a glance what was due out, without going through stacks of paperwork. Since records were only released in the first two weeks of the start of the month, a weekly paper wasn't need. But by 1960 records companies were slowly switching to the Friday once a week day. So the paper needed to go weekly.
                                                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                                    Comment

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