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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by BrainDamageII View Post
    I just noticed that this facility was available again Brain so that's my premium membership up and running again. Thanks for the prompt.

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  • BrainDamageII
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    I didn't know there were premium members. So what is a premium member and what is the criteria to become one ?
    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/ukmix/ha...rship-now-open

    12 a year. Bargain

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Well there was this post ...
    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...6#post10492296

    It appeared shortly after I had posted my research into the best sellers of 1967 and the Voice of God stamped it rubbish!
    I Like it.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by BrainDamageII View Post
    Premium members have the facility to comment
    I didn't know there were premium members. So what is a premium member and what is the criteria to become one ?

    Leave a comment:


  • BrainDamageII
    replied
    Premium members have the facility to comment

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Well there was this post ...
    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...6#post10492296

    It appeared shortly after I had posted my research into the best sellers of 1967 and the Voice of God stamped it rubbish!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    I don't think moderator privileges should be used in this way. It looks like posts are being denounced by the Voice of God!
    Is Graham a Moderator though Splodj, he is not listed on the site list of Moderators as one ?

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Woz1234 View Post

    It should be by Freddy Cannon, you've got it right on the 29th April.
    I've corrected that name Woz. Thanks.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Graham how do you make comments on posts like you just did ?
    I don't think moderator privileges should be used in this way. It looks like posts are being denounced by the Voice of God!

    Leave a comment:


  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 22nd 1961

    The Muskrat Rumble - Johnny Burnette
    It should be by Freddy Cannon, you've got it right on the 29th April.
    Last edited by Woz1234; Mon February 1, 2021, 13:47.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Graham how do you make comments on posts like you just did ?

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    ' It was more or less down to the charts being run by the Music Industry as they still are. And if you let any body with a vested interest compile statistics then it will show what they want to show. So for example if the police do crime figures they will show higher levels. Since if the figures were lower they would loose funding.'

    Yip that was my point exactly Graham, the charts once reflecting public popularity are now what The Music Industry wants them to be basically a 'puppet' under their control.

    The points system was fine for the time it did reflect to a fair degree of accuracy within its limitations as to what was popular and selling.
    But even when the BMRB sales chart came on board the chart even with sales was no more precise than the points charts had been, plus by that time the Music Industry well and truly had their claws on it.

    It's even worse now with the waters muddied with downloads and streaming, worse even than points and sales, and manipulated more than at any other time. Sad indeed to see what the chart has evolved into.
    Also, strictly speaking it is actually now a 'song' chart not a singles chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    What you are saying is fine as long as all the charts you are using agree. But in the situation outlined previous showed they did not agree. Then you have to have agreement on them all positions away from the top spot and that's rare. But say one shop does have a number one on 100 sales, but three shops each selling 25 have a different number, but the same in those three shops. The points system then screws up.
    And the hyping was happening by 1955 when sales took off. Brian Epstein was accused of hyping the first Beatles single for example.
    The problem with the charts after 1969 wasn't haphazard checking. It was more or less down to the charts being run by the Music Industry as they still are. And if you let any body with a vested interest compile statistics then it will show what they want to show. So for example if the police do crime figures they will show higher levels. Since if the figures were lower they would loose funding.

  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    The Sun paper was based on a small sample and when the record survey was done all the other charts had much greater samples. There were many different sized shops back then some much larger than others. One record shop could sell say 100 records and another 1,000 in a week. It wouldn't have made much difference to the sales even if they had one Woolies shop on the panel as that would still only contribute 50 points max. Plus the records would be all Embassy Label and I suspect that one shop could not have even made a top 30 chart with just 50 points. Records don't make it with lots of shops backing them.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Ha ! Elvis reclaims #1 how many of you saw that coming

    The Marcels and The Temperance Seven close in though. Both still have their eye on claiming the #1 prize.
    And in at #26, a seemingly insignificant entry from Del Shannon will be one of the biggies of the year.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 29th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 29th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley 1 2 1 1 1 1 9820
    4 2 You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven 2 1 1 3 2 4 9540
    1 3 Are You Sure - The Allisons 4 5 4 2 4 3 9080
    7 4 Blue Moon - The Marcels 3 3 3 4 3 7 9010
    5 5 Lazy River - Bobby Darin 5 4 5 5 5 2 8750
    13 6 Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard 6 6 8 9 7 6 7750
    12 7 Warpaint - The Brook Brothers 7 14 7 7 6 9 7350
    3 8 Walk Right Back / Ebony Eyes - The Everly Brothers 8 15 13 6 8 8 6950
    20 9 Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy 11 9 6 13 11 18 6630
    9 10 Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher 9 7 14 14 9 10 6540
    18 11 A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas 10 8 11 10 13 22 6520
    22 12 Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro 13 10 9 11 16 15 6430
    6 13 Theme For A Dream - Cliff Richard 12 13 17 8 14 11 6260
    11 14 Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis 15 11 16 17 15 5 5620
    17 15 African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth 16 12 12 15 18 17 5490
    8 16 And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley 14 20 19 12 10 14 5250
    NEW 17 On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer 18= 16 10 19 19 23 4620
    21 18 Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette 18= 17 15 20 17 21 4290
    10 19 F.B.I. - The Shadows 17 21 18 12 13 3720
    14 20 My Kind Of Girl - Matt Monro 20 25 18 16 16 3360
    19 21 Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford 23 20 20 19 2210
    16 22 Samantha - Kenny Ball 19 20 1290
    15 23 Will You Love Me Tomorrow - The Shirelles 24 12 1130
    27 24 How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson 18 30 1070
    NEW 25 Easy Going Me - Adam Faith 22 720
    NEW 26 Runaway - Del Shannon 25 480
    29 27 Seventy Six Trombones - The King Brothers 27 320
    NEW 28 Coronation Street - Geoff Love 27 320
    30 29 Marry Me - Mike Preston 24 210
    25 30 Wheels - The String-A-Longs 25 180
    The Muskrat Rumble - Freddy Cannon 29 160
    (I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney 26 150
    More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee 30 29 140
    (Ghost) Riders In The Sky - The Ramrods 27 120
    Who Am I / This Is It - Adam Faith 28 90

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    As the charts were points based then as opposed to sales based the points system would work as the same system was used across the board.
    In other words if one shop sold a hundred copies of a single and placed it at #1 in their chart return, and a smaller shop down the road sold 25 copies and placed it at #1 in their chart return the end result was the same as far as a points based system goes. So from March 1956 (where I will be going after 63) till February 69 the points system was more than adequate to indicate best sellers across the shops irregardless of size.

    I think I mentioned earlier but we need to remember that back in the era till mid sixties, charts were just a fun aspect of the music business so the compilation methods were not taken too seriously or examined too closely. I think the BBC chart is the perfect example of this. Haphazardly compiled with little checking on accuracy.
    It was only when the music business discovered they could use the chart and hijacked it for marketing and making more money that it became open to scrutiny, manipulation, and hyping.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    There was not such a difference between large and small vendors then, and no chains like Woolies were involved. And the Sun survey showed that, in that week at least, a points based chart was a good guide to sales.

    The system was not perfect by any means, but I think to say it was screwed up is an exaggeration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Boy were those early 60's charts screwed up. Nearly a month later after they had topped the chart, they get to the top on several of them. At this point Cliff was on top just waiting to get shoved off by the Temperance Seven. I don't think it's a question of how many shops you have on the books that's the problem with the accuracy of these component charts. For as Brian has pointed out, if you knock down the numbers the results are the same. The trouble is that each of these charts treated one record shop the same as the other in the way it compiled a chart. But the selling of records was never like that. One store could often sell 20 or 30 times the amount of another. Not so long ago Amazon downloads had a record at the top all week. And iTunes had it much lower. However the Amazon topper appeared on the OCC chart much lower down. Because though it was selling like hot cakes on Amazon compared to the rest of the UK it wasn't selling noway near enough to make the top. Way back in the 70's the Sex Pistols record was most distributed record and on the 18 June 1977 the points based NME chart put the record at the top. But the sales based chart (and the Real Chart) didn't. Why? Because despite all the independents shops selling the Sex Pistols, Woolworth had no stocks of it at all (they refused to sell it). And Woolies could outsell all the others combined, so their best seller was top that week.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Temperance Seven and The Marcels both have a mind to be the next weeks #1, but someone else has their eye on it too

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Oops ! Thanks for noticing that brain. Its now corrected

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Minor typo in the 22th April chart as you have last week's position for Blue Moon as 17 whereas it was actually 14.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Allisons' patience is rewarded as they replace Elvis at the top this week in The Ultimate Chart and 3 of the music paper charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 22nd 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 22nd 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Are You Sure - The Allisons 1 1 1 2 1 2 9760
    1 2 Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 1 2 1 9710
    3 3 Walk Right Back / Ebony Eyes - The Everly Brothers 5 7 5 3 5 4 8670
    11 4 You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven 3= 4 4 5 4 10 8620
    5 5 Lazy River - Bobby Darin 3= 3 7 7 3 3 8560
    4 6 Theme For A Dream - Cliff Richard 6 9 6 4 6 7 8200
    14 7 Blue Moon - The Marcels 7 5 3 8 9 12 7960
    6 8 And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley 9 13 9 6 7 9 7370
    8 9 Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher 8 6 14 11 8 6 7120
    7 10 F.B.I. - The Shadows 12 12 8 10 10 8 6950
    10 11 Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis 10 8 10 12 11 11 6790
    13 12 Warpaint - The Brook Brothers 11 11 11 9 12 14 6680
    18 13 Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard 13 10 12 14 15 15 5970
    9 14 My Kind Of Girl - Matt Monro 14 16 16 13 13 5 5760
    12 15 Will You Love Me Tomorrow - The Shirelles 15 15 15 16 14 16 5190
    15 16 Samantha - Kenny Ball 16 14 18 19 17 13 4700
    17 17 African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth 17 17 17 17 19 17 4520
    24 18 A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas 18 18 13 15 3880
    16 19 Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford 19 22 19 18 16 23 3860
    NEW 20 Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy 23 20 20 30 2540
    29 21 Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette 20= 20 20 18 24 2400
    22 22 Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro 20= 18 20 21 1890
    25 23 The Muskrat Rumble - Freddy Cannon 21 800
    19 24 Who Am I / This Is It - Adam Faith 26 18 790
    23 25 Wheels - The String-A-Longs 27 20 650
    26 26 (I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney 25 28 570
    NEW 27 How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson 24 560
    20 28 (Ghost) Riders In The Sky - The Ramrods 30 19 440
    27 29 Seventy Six Trombones - The King Brothers 28 25 420
    21 30 Marry Me - Mike Preston 22 270
    Good Time Baby - Bobby Rydell 29 160
    Are You Lonesome Tonight - Elvis Presley 26 150
    Pony Time - Chubby Checker 27 120
    More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee 29 60
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Mon February 1, 2021, 14:08.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I see we are now over 40,000 views to the thread. Wow !

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