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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 14th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 14th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    3 2 Tom Hark - Elias and The Zig Zag Jive Flutes 2 2 3 2 2 5485
    2 3 A Wonderful Time Up There / It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 3 7 2 3 3 5085
    9 4 Stairway Of Love - Michael Holliday 4 3 5 4 6 5050
    10 5 Witch Doctor - Don Lang 5 5 8 8 4 4805
    7 6 On The Street Where You Live - Vic Damone 6= 4 4 9 9 4630
    8 7 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 8 6 6 6 10 4510
    11 8 All I Have To Do Is Dream / Claudette - The Everly Brothers 9 9 10 7 5 4475
    5 9 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 6= 10 9 10 7 4195
    6 10 Wear My Ring Around Your Neck - Elvis Presley 10 13 7 5 8 4190
    4 11 Lollipop - The Mudlarks 11 8 11 12 11 3955
    12 12 Kewpie Doll - Frankie Vaughan 12 10 12 11 13 3720
    18 13 The Army Game - The TV Cast 13 12 17 13 12 3445
    16 14 Twilight Time - The Platters 14 16 14 17 14 2980
    14 15 Kewpie Doll - Perry Como 15 14 13 20 15 2955
    15 16 Witch Doctor - David Seville 16 18 15 15 17 2725
    20 17 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Perry Como 17 15 16 16 20 2675
    13 18 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 18 20 18 14 19 2440
    28 19 Book Of Love - The Mudlarks 19 19 19 16 2160
    25 20 I Dig You Baby - Marvin Rainwater 22 18 1365
    17 21 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ella Fitzgerald 23 19 18 1340
    22 22 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Robert Earl 20 17 20 1185
    NEW 23 Big Man - The Four Preps 21 650
    NEW 24 Return To Me - Dean Martin 24 455
    26 25 On The Street Where You Live - David Whitfield 25 390
    NEW 26 A Very Precious Love - Doris Day 27 260
    RE 27 Teacher Teacher - Johnny Mathis 28 195
    24 28 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 29 130
    19 29 Stairway Of Love - Terry Dene 30 65
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 26
    21 Johnny B Goode - Chuck Berry
    23 Lollipop - The Chordettes
    27 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan
    29 Sweet Little Sixteen - Chuck Berry
    30 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Ronnie Hilton
    * The BBC chart placed Lonnie Donegan at 6= but it's chart statistics do not support that high placing. Point wise it should be 10. 0

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah NME data was derived by phone. I too have considered if it was the shops that split the sides with some customers asking for one side and other customers asking for the reverse side. To a degree I think that would play a part because remember the sheet music chart played by Radio Luxembourg was song based so listeners would hear both songs here.

    So that would explain Pat Boone and Perry Como for example and would seem consistent with above explanation, but then why not Max Bygraves too if this was the case because both his sides were popular as songs too.

    So it is possible it was just down to the NME compilers who without any actual policy or guidance just decided arbitrarily on their own initiative. After all charts at this time were for fun not serious examination and scrutiny.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    If I remember correctly wasn't the NME data obtained by phone? If so then it could be dependent on what the shop assistant said and what the caller wrote down - assuming there wasn't a data spreadsheet which they would fill in. Then of course it may depend on who compiled the spreadsheet. Either way, the personal preference/opinion of the record taker (either at NME or the store) could affect what was recorded. After that perhaps the compilers couldn't be bothered or didn't know which songs were on the same disk and so just left as is....

    Anyway, we can speculate as much as we like, but unless either a) someone who was involved remembers and can clarify or b) the old records are located - probably unlikely as I expect the NME offices moved a few times so the first thing to go is likely to be 'old' records, it is unlikely we will ever know for sure....
    Do the NME still have offices now? I mean they're purely online news now? Presumably the British library have no records apart from maybe old NMEs?

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Even more examples of inconsistency from NME. Whilst it splits the Pat Boone record and Perry Como just left the chart NME is happy to combine Max Bygraves, Everly Brothers and Lonnie Donegan.
    Strange or what
    It's just a shame that these chart decisions were never explained in the newspaper at the time. It would have made for clarity.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Even more examples of inconsistency from NME. Whilst it splits the Pat Boone record and Perry Como just left the chart NME is happy to combine Max Bygraves, Everly Brothers and Lonnie Donegan.
    Strange or what

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I presume the asterisk applies to Boone.

    Something strange about the BBC chart at 7 8 &9. I thought they did not include Disc, but it seems they did.
    Yeah the asterisk was for Pat Boone. The BBC were using Disc in their calculations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I presume the asterisk applies to Boone.

    Something strange about the BBC chart at 7 8 &9. I thought they did not include Disc, but it seems they did.
    Last edited by Splodj; Wed April 6, 2022, 09:40.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Some strange patterns at the upper level of the chart. Elvis is 4 on MM, RM, DISC, yet 11 on NME. Also Vic Damone 8 on MM, 9 ON DISC, 11 ON RM yet 3 on NME. It looks like NME is the big outsider here way out of touch with the others.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 7th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 7th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    2 2 A Wonderful Time Up There / It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 3 4 2 3 2 5451
    4 3 Tom Hark - Elias and The Zig Zag Jive Flutes 2 2 3 2 3 5425
    5 4 Lollipop - The Mudlarks 4 5 5 5 6 4880
    6 5 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 6 6 6 7 5 4770
    3 6 Wear My Ring Around Your Neck - Elvis Presley 5 11 4 4 4 4675
    10 7 On The Street Where You Live - Vic Damone 7 3 8 9 11 4475
    9 8 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 8= 7 7 6 10 4420
    12 9 Stairway Of Love - Michael Holliday 8= 8 9 8 7 4405
    13 10 Witch Doctor - Don Lang 10 9 11 12 8 4070
    14 11 All I Have To Do Is Dream / Claudette - The Everly Brothers 11 12 15 10 9 3795
    8 12 Kewpie Doll - Frankie Vaughan 12 10 14 13 12 3650
    7 13 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 13 15 12 11 13 3395
    11 14 Kewpie Doll - Perry Como 14 13 10 16 16 3195
    15 15 Witch Doctor - David Seville 15 14 16 15 15 3080
    20 16 Twilight Time - The Platters 16 16 13 18 14 2965
    18 17 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ella Fitzgerald 17 18 19 14 20 2485
    27 18 The Army Game - The TV Cast 18 17 19 19 2110
    17 19 Stairway Of Love - Terry Dene 22 18 1365
    25 20 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Perry Como 19 19 17 1340
    NEW 21 Johnny B Goode - Chuck Berry 20= 17 840
    19 22 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Robert Earl 24 18 780
    21 23 Lollipop - The Chordettes 21 650
    16 24 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 28 20 635
    NEW 25 I Dig You Baby - Marvin Rainwater 23 520
    24 26 On The Street Where You Live - David Whitfield 20= 29 17 480
    23 27 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan 25 390
    NEW 28 Book Of Love - The Mudlarks 26 325
    RE 29 Sweet Little Sixteen - Chuck Berry 20 275
    RE 30 I May Never Pass This Way Again - Ronnie Hilton 27 260
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 20
    28 Teacher Teacher - Johnny Mathis 30 65
    22 Magic Moments / Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 0
    26 Crazy Love - Paul Anka 0
    29 Tequila - The Champs 0
    0
    * This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position. 0

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Thank you kind sir. Check your email. Albums you say... Come back in 2025...

  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Thanks Lonnie and all, I'm in, trigger is pulled. Like I said up top somewhere, it's worth it just for the annual/yearly rankings, which I've desired for a long time now, like the Whitburn pop annual book.

    All we need now is an album series like this, ha. Onward and upward !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Another chart book, mentioned earlier in this thread, asserted that RR had a Friday survey week end. But if the RR magazine itself stated above its chart a week ending of Saturday, which clearly refers to the survey week and not a publication date, isn't this fairly conclusive proof that its survey week end was Saturday?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks Robbie and no problem

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    kingofskiffle, it really is an excellent book. I've not yet subscribed but will do when you reach the 1970s.
    Robbie / Robin, the whole series of these books are second to none. They are the most comprehensive chart books I have come across anywhere. They are clearly presented, detailed, factual and very, very interesting. The price is a real bargain for these. Even if you weren't around from the start of these in 1952 they are well worth the money just to discover British Chart history from the very beginning.
    Lonnie's detailed research has come up with lots of information I wasn't aware of. I would highly recommend these books to every chart enthusiast.

    You can tell I'm hooked big time on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    kingofskiffle, it really is an excellent book. I've not yet subscribed but will do when you reach the 1970s.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Alright Robin, just for you. Here is a sample of the 1961 volume.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jn5y9d2v7...ample.pdf?dl=0

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Thanks Lonnie. Could I please ask you to give us a few sample pages of 1961 to better see what all is in it? 1961 sounds like it's got a good deal more than the 1953 book, and thus a 1961 sample of pages would better show that to all prospective buyers. And I will be a buyer!

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    My 1961 volume includes the RR, NME, MM and Disc singles charts as well as MM EP’s, RR EP’s and Disc bubblers. It comes to 783 pages and has a little section at the back showing how the Top 30 lined up for each of those charts as well as Record Mirror - but RM is not listed elsewhere in the volume. It comes in at 16.6Mb as a file.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by kjell View Post
    And now to relax with kingofskiffle’s new 61 book. Complete charts from all four major charts for the whole year, singles and EPs, even the complete top 50 singles and rankings of artists and hits, again nearly 800 pages. How on Earth does he manage this wealth of info each week?
    Kjell, are you saying complete weekly charts (singles and EPs) from all 4 major music papers are included in the 1961 book? As in NME, RM, MM, Disc, RR. Oops, that makes 5 major charts, not counting the BBC. Which one is not included?

    Kjell or Lonnie, could you please give us a list of all the weekly charts included in the 1961 book, singles and EPs, and from which music papers? Inquiring minds need to know. Cheers n crisps...

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Yeah I remember Tulips. One of the few UK pop hits on Norwegian radio in those days.

    Charts at our disposal now include top 200 from Jan 83 till a few years ago. We have top 100 + from Record Business Mar 78 - Apr 83 and top 100 from Gallup Mar 78 - Oct 79. Graham has done the 100 Jan 76 - Sep 78 plus 80 - 81 and 85 - 86, 70 and of the 60ies he has done 65 - 68 and now doing 69. Earlier he’s done top 40 48 - 52 which looks more reliable than the Missing Charts 40 - 52. From Oct 54 we have top 20 and from Apr 56 top 30 before RR commences the top 50.

    The main problems when we compare the number of positions of the charts to the magnitude of releases seems to be 71 - 75 and 53 - 64.

    MrTibbs has in his other thread solved the problems from the summer of 54 till Oct 55 so far, and intends to research dealers charts to just about double the RM charts lengths 55 - Mar 61. There has been rumours of unsurfaced longer charts in the 70s, but those have never been confirmed. We seem to have a short chart problem that will last at least 61 - 64 and 72 - 75 since Graham intends to do 71.

    The most critical problem is the lack of charts, we can’t use what we don’t have. A few fans have criticized Grahams charts, but they seem to be the best we have prior to Nov 52 and below 50 65 - 69. I did an evaluation of his 65 - 67 a few years ago and they seemed no worse than RR.

    I expect our next essential breakthru’ to be MrTibbs extended RM chart Oct 55 - Mar 61, an achievement I’m really looking forward to.

    And now to relax with kingofskiffle’s new 61 book. Complete charts from all four major charts for the whole year, singles and EPs, even the complete top 50 singles and rankings of artists and hits, again nearly 800 pages. How on Earth does he manage this wealth of info each week?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Of course Bernard Bresslaw also featured on some comedy records on his own. One was a parody of the Bygraves record called 'You Need Feet'!
    Not content with giving us his own particular brand of army torture Bernard then unleashed his Mad Passionate Love upon us. I don't know which was worse

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Such a shame as actually seeing Tulips in Amsterdam is lovely....

  • Splodj
    replied
    Of course Bernard Bresslaw also featured on some comedy records on his own. One was a parody of the Bygraves record called 'You Need Feet'!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

    Hehehhe It's okay, you can. It was the first TV inspired novelty song to chart (Unless I'm missing one through repressing a bad one...) but lets be honest - not the worst song in the chart that week? (Or am I alone in my opinion here.... )
    Oh not the worst by a long way Lonnie that honour goes to Max Bygraves's annoying la la la Tulips

    My mum had it, loved it, and played it to death. I've been traumatised since !

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    Oh dear, I was just about to slag it off too
    Hehehhe It's okay, you can. It was the first TV inspired novelty song to chart (Unless I'm missing one through repressing a bad one...) but lets be honest - not the worst song in the chart that week? (Or am I alone in my opinion here.... )

    Leave a comment:

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