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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That's an interesting point. NME seemed to arbitrarily split sides for some records and not others. Interestingly as highlighted above they were still doing it in 1967, yet for some strange reason they did not split Beatles double A sides such as Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out, Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby etc.

    We all know why !!!. Denying the Beatles the No 1 slot by splitting would have caused a massive outcry. So not a fair practise, rules for some and rules for others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I wonder what criteria NME used for separating the sides. In 1967 they listed separately Nancy Sinatra's 'You Only Live Twice' and 'Jackson'. Yet Discogs says 'Jackson' was the B-side, so was it separated because it was a duet with Lee Hazlewood?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 21st May 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 21st 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    3 2 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    2 3 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 4 4 3 4 3 17480
    12 4 Wild Thing - The Troggs 3 3 4 3 4 17445
    8 5 Shotgun Wedding - Roy c 5 6 5 5 6 16225
    NEW 6 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 6 5 9 8 5 15210
    4 7 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 7 8 7 7 7 15040
    15 8 Sorrow - The Merseys 8 9 6 6 9 15020
    NEW 9 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 9 7 10 10 12 13765
    23 10 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11= 13 8 9 15 12910
    5 11 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 10 11 11 12 8 12855
    27 12 Rainy Day Woman Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 11= 10 12 13 10 12535
    6 13 Bang Bang - Cher 13 14 14 11 11 11350
    NEW 14 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 14 12 13 14 17 11190
    7 15 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 15 16 18 17 13 9180
    11 16 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 17 19 16 15 16 9025
    29 17 Promises - Ken Dodd 16 15 19 18 14 8945
    9 18 Alfie - Cilla Black 18 18 15 19 20 8735
    13 19 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 19 20 17 16 19 8220
    10 20 Sound Of Silance/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 20 21 20 22 18 6755
    20 21 How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 21 23 22 20 21 5800
    24 22 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 22 22 25 21 22 5065
    14 23 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 23 26 21 23 29 4470
    NEW 24 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 26 17 28 3100
    19 25 That's Nice - Neil Christian 24 24 25 23 3030
    21 26 Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 27 23 26 27 2840
    16 27 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 25 28 27 24 25 2810
    18 28 Someday One Day - The Seekers 29 29 26 28 1905
    30 29 California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 28 25 29 26 1825
    NEW 30 Once - Geneveve 24 1400
    I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 30 27 27 30 1285
    Substitute - The Who 28 750
    Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 29 30 650
    Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 24 595
    Take It Or Leave It - The Searchers 29 500
    Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 29 400
    Confusion - Lee Dorsey 30 100
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Sat September 5, 2020, 08:51.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! (If you haven't guessed already 'Fluff' was my favourite DJ back in the day !)

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 14th May 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 14th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    3 2 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    6 3 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 3 3 3 4 3 17680
    2 4 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 4 4 4 3 6 17075
    5 5 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 5 5 5 6 5 16410
    4 6 Bang Bang - Cher 6 6 6 5 4 16145
    7 7 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 7 8 7 7 7 15040
    15 8 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 8 7 9 8 10 14385
    9 9 Alfie - Cilla Black 9 9 8 9 11 14050
    8 10 Sound Of Silence/ Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 10 10 11 10 8 13255
    11 11 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 11 11 10 11 9 13120
    NEW 12 Wild Thing - The Troggs 12 12 16 13 13 10880
    17 13 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 13 15 14 12 15 10710
    13 14 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 15 18 12 14 17 10240
    29 15 Sorrow - The Merseys 14 13 17 19 12 9915
    10 16 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 16 14 18 17 16 9325
    12 17 Substitute - The Who 17 21 13 15 18 9205
    14 18 Someday One Day - The Seekers 18 16 15 21 20 8935
    21 19 That's Nice - Neil Christian 19 24 21 16 14 6845
    23 20 How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 20 22 20 20 19 6670
    20 21 Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 21 23 19 18 22 6665
    16 22 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 22 19 22 22 21 6400
    NEW 23 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 23 16 24 28 23 5730
    28 24 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 24 25 26 23 25 3760
    18 25 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 25 23 26 24 3095
    24 26 Highway Code - Master Singers 27 27 25 24 30 3085
    NEW 27 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 28= 20 28 2950
    22 28 Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 26 26 27 25 27 2940
    NEW 29 Promises - Ken Dodd 28= 27 30 27 26 1875
    NEW 30 California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 30 29 29 570
    Take It Or Leave It - The Searchers 29 500
    Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 28 255
    Once - Geneveve 30 200
    Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 30 200
    The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 29 200
    Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 30 100


    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    It's a really interesting list though, and I believe adding the LP's, EP's, and B sides was probably to make the list all inclusive and comprehensive as to what was played on the show outwith what was on the chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I agree that the LPs, EPs and B-sides do not count as 'misses', but the rest of the list does show that new releases could not rely on TOTP exposure alone to become upper chart 'hits'. However if a record had already established some momentum I do think that it was given a boost by TOTP when it entered the 20 and was given an appearance with the prestige of a 'new entry'. Although naturally we cannot know how the record would have performed otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Wow ! Have just had a read through that amazing list and while it upholds what I said above, I also realised how many of those I had forgotten about and suddenly remembered.

    The one that jumped out of the page at me in particular from away back in '66 that I had forgotten all about was Samantha Juste and No One Needs My Love today. I went to You Tube to listen to it again and was immediately swept away with nostalgia for those times. It totally epitomises that time of simple romantic melodic love songs typical of the flower power era with its charm and innocence. As I listened and sighed I so wanted to return to those times again.

    It did indeed miss out, but Samantha was a record spinner on TOTP at the time then left and married Micky Dolenz of the Monkees. She died a few years back sadly.

    Take a listen guys and get lost back in the golden decade of popular music the like of which has gone from us forever.

    Thanks Metalweb for posting that list and sending me back on a journey of discovery.
    It didn't to well on the Real Chart either, only two weeks at number 70.

    The list though is a bit misleading since some were EP tracks, which did make the EP charts, plus B sides, some of which like the Beatles Rain was a double AA record. And we know it was a double AA due to the fact the Beatles made a colour film for both tracks. And also album tracks which couldn't have made the singles charts anyway.
    With a few exceptions many did however did make the Real Chart top 50, so the records should have been picked up by the other top 50's at the time. The fact they didn't shows how bad the charts were. For the years 65 to 67 all the tracks (except albums) made the Real Chart top 100. Though some only just!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 7th May 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 7th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 2 2 2 2 4 18245
    5 3 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 3 3 3 3 2 17865
    2 4 Bang Bang - Cher 4 4 4 4 3 17230
    7 5 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 5 6 5 5 6 16225
    11 6 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 6 5 7 6 5 15910
    4 7 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 7 7 6 7 7 15490
    8 8 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 8 8 9 8 8 14355
    9 9 Alfie - Cilla Black 9 9 8 10 9 14120
    6 10 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 10 10 10 9 11 13350
    12 11 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 11 11 11 11 10 12785
    10 12 Substitute - The Who 12 13 12 12 12 11865
    13 13 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 13 15 13 13 13 11030
    16 14 Someday One Day - The Seekers 14 14 14 17 14 10495
    24 15 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 16 12 15 16 20 10235
    15 16 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 15 16 16 14 15 9810
    23 17 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 17 17 18 15 19 8670
    19 18 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 18 18 21 21 17 7290
    14 19 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Any More - The Walker Brothers 19= 22 17 18 23 7280
    22 20 Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 19= 19 19 20 22 7265
    28 21 That's Nice - Neil Christian 21 23 22 27 16 5525
    20 22 Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 22 29 20 19 21 5200
    NEW 23 How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 23 20 27 22 27 4440
    26 24 Highway Code - The Master Singers 24 26 25 25 25 3610
    18 25 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 25 24 23 29 2720
    17 26 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 29 23 26 2500
    NEW 27 Take It Or Leave It - The Searchers 30 25 26 2450
    NEW 28 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 26 24 30 24 30 2435
    NEW 29 Sorrow - The Merseys 28 21 28 2255
    21 30 Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 27 29 30 18 1705
    The Ballad Of The Green Berets - Staff Sgt Barry Sadler 30 28 29 1150
    Supergirl - Graham Bonney 28 24 895
    Wild Thing - The Troggs 27 800
    Something On My Mind - Chris Andrews 28 600
    Please Stay - The Cryin' Shames 26 425

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Samantha was a record spinner on TOTP at the time then left and married Micky Dolenz of the Monkees.
    And of course she was featured by Dolenz in the lyrics of Randy Scouse Git / Alternate Title.


    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Wow ! Have just had a read through that amazing list and while it upholds what I said above, I also realised how many of those I had forgotten about and suddenly remembered.

    The one that jumped out of the page at me in particular from away back in '66 that I had forgotten all about was Samantha Juste and No One Needs My Love today. I went to You Tube to listen to it again and was immediately swept away with nostalgia for those times. It totally epitomises that time of simple romantic melodic love songs typical of the flower power era with its charm and innocence. As I listened and sighed I so wanted to return to those times again.

    It did indeed miss out, but Samantha was a record spinner on TOTP at the time then left and married Micky Dolenz of the Monkees. She died a few years back sadly.

    Take a listen guys and get lost back in the golden decade of popular music the like of which has gone from us forever.

    Thanks Metalweb for posting that list and sending me back on a journey of discovery.
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Thu September 3, 2020, 22:15.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Strange to believe but TOTP was not an automatic guarantee that a record would be a hit or climb the chart. There were many, many, new releases that got prime exposure but didn't even dent the Top 50, any many just outside the the Top 30 that got a plug and failed to break through any higher..

    I'm still at work guys but will post the next chart when I get home tonight.
    This is a fascinating list of TOTP flops:


    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...hat-never-were

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 30th April 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 30th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    4 2 Bang Bang - Cher 2 2 2 2 4 18245
    18 3 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 3 3 4 3 2 17615
    3 4 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 4 5 3 6 5 16910
    11 5 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 5 4 5 5 6 16625
    2 6 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 6 7 6 4 3 16130
    9 7 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 7 6 7 8 8 15255
    5 8 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 8 8 9 7 7 14540
    8 9 Alfie - Cilla Black 9 9 8 9 10 14135
    6 10 Substitute - The Who 10 10 10 10 11 13250
    22 11 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 11 11 11 12 13 12430
    16 12 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 13 14 12 15 12 11365
    12 13 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 12 12 16 13 9 11220
    7 14 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 14 13 14 14 14 10995
    10 15 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 15 15 15 11 16 10475
    15 16 Someday One Day - The Seekers 16 16 13 16 15 10360
    14 17 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 19 18 17 21 22 7865
    13 18 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 18 19 19 18 20 7635
    17 19 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 17 23 18 17 17 7440
    23 20 Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 20 20 22 19 23 6330
    19 21 Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 21 27 21 20 18 5505
    30 22 Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 23 24 20 25 27 5090
    NEW 23 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 22 20 25 23 25 5010
    NEW 24 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 26 17 27 28 4055
    24 25 The Ballad Of The Green Berets - Staff Sgt Barry Sadler 24 26 24 24 24 4045
    29 26 Highway Code - The Master Singers 28 22 26 26 30 3635
    20 27 You Won't Be Leaving - Herman's Hermits 25 23 22 26 3325
    25 28 That's Nice - Neil Christian 27 25 28 29 21 3000
    28 29 Supergirl - Graham Bonney 29 30 28 19 1570
    27 30 Twinkle Toes - Roy Orbison 29 30 600
    How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 28 600
    Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 30 27 29 570
    Take It Or Leave It - The Searchers 29 400
    Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Barry McGuire 30 200
    A Hard Day's Night - The Ramsey Lewis Trio 30 200

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Strange to believe but TOTP was not an automatic guarantee that a record would be a hit or climb the chart. There were many, many, new releases that got prime exposure but didn't even dent the Top 50, any many just outside the the Top 30 that got a plug and failed to break through any higher..

    I'm still at work guys but will post the next chart when I get home tonight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    So the mystery of why NME was ahead and RR behind remains unsolved!

    With regard to the importance of getting exposure on TOTP, it is interesting to see records that peaked just outside the BBC Top 20 that you feel would have had a completely different trajectory had they made it in.

    For example, Ipenema peaked at number 21. One place higher and it would have been on TOTP and you could expect it to climb up the following week.

    I have been looking to see if there was any record prevented from entering the 20 by the RR drag effect alone, but cannot find any.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    While the RR chart was originally based on averaging the results of 30 independent non-label aligned record dealers, per Alan Smith when they ramped up to 75 to 85 dealers in January 1964, they contacted EMI and Decca to obtain a list of 100 prime record shops, mostly based in London, Manchester, and Liverpool.

    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...sic+now+charts

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    Well if the sales period really was the same then the types of stores sampled must account for the differences. A low sample can explain a higher number of outliers, but I cannot see a correlation between having a low sample and consistently lagging behind.

    I've always thought that RR surveyed the most independents, as originally it was for the non-aligned stores, and NME homed in on the big city centre outlets that were more likely to be ahead of the curve.
    I'm not to clear on what you mean by the "Big City Centre Outlets". Woolworth's didn't take part in any. I don't believe that WH Smith and Boots took part in any charts till much later on. The attitude they had being not willing to give sales information to the competition. Though how giving a list of only 50 records each week, the same as other stores did, would give any real information to anyone is anyone's guess. So maybe some of them did? Only refusing later on to gave actual numbers of records to BMRB.

    When Brian was doing the Record Mirror dealer charts, we only saw a few chains of stores, the rest where mostly one off dealers. And with only 250 shops tops, seeing that it was supposed to be a national chart, you could easily get lots of these one off dealers in the samples. In the 1960's there were no really big record stores in the UK anyway. It wasn't till Richard Branson stepped in with Virgin stores till you get them.

    Due to the fact the way records were released at that time on a Friday it would only guarantee two days of sales. Mind you one of those days was Saturday, when a lot of records were bought. So you could sell a lot of a well known act on that day. One theory could be that Record Retailer had a lot of badly supplied shops, hence a 41 entry for a record that should be 19. The other charts having more shops might have got around this problem, more weight to the sample. With more shops giving out 50 points to some records, while RR had far less of them giving out 50 points.

    I have seen a lot of mentions of charts using advanced orders and it could be the case that some record shops knowing the record was out in those two days of chart action did not count up what they had sold and simply gave a record 50 points on the strength of the orders it had in. But I have found no evidence from 1965 to 1967 (anyway) of any chart having a record that wasn't out in the week the charts covered on advanced orders. And I did look at all the singles charts for each sales week. In other words each record coming in very high (even at the top) was at least on sale for two days - Friday and Saturday. Plus when you compare the charts with Top of The Pops shows, broadcast the Thursday, many of the new hits were featured. So would have loads of the public out Friday and Saturday buying what they saw on TOTP.
    Sadly nearly all the newspaper charts fall down when it comes to TOTP sales. With many showing falls for records that should be climbing after an appearance on the show. In reality the top ten literally becomes the records that have been on TOTP for the last two Thursday's. And while they might be showing a record in the top five. It's actually outside the top ten due to not being on TOTP for the last two weeks. Especially former number ones!

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    This is possibly explained by something else I once read up on, in that, NME and Disc both sampled a large proportion of 'independent' shops, whereas RR and MM mainly sampled mainstream stores and shops. So just maybe this accounted for the differences but still doesn't explain the many , many, tied positions
    Well if the sales period really was the same then the types of stores sampled must account for the differences. A low sample can explain a higher number of outliers, but I cannot see a correlation between having a low sample and consistently lagging behind.

    I've always thought that RR surveyed the most independents, as originally it was for the non-aligned stores, and NME homed in on the big city centre outlets that were more likely to be ahead of the curve.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 23rd April 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 23rd 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    6 1 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    3 3 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 3 3 3 5 4 17495
    10 4 Bang Bang - Cher 4 5 4 3 6 16875
    4 5 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 5 4 6 7 3 16430
    5 6 Substitute - The Who 6 7 5 4 8 15955
    2 7 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 7 6 8 6 7 15290
    11 8 Alfie - Cilla Black 8 8 7 8 12 14515
    16 9 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 10 9 9 11 10 13685
    9 10 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 9 11 11 10 5 13310
    19 11 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 12 10 10 9 17 12840
    14 12 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 11 12 12 12 9 12320
    8 13 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 13 14 13 13 13 11230
    7 14 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 14 13 14 16 11 11050
    17 15 Someday One Day - The Seekers 15= 16 15 15 14 10045
    20 16 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 15= 15 16 14 15 10010
    12 17 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 17 17 17 17 16 8975
    NEW 18 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 19 18 18 19 22 7815
    18 19 Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 18 20 20 18 18 7355
    22 20 You Won't Be Leaving - Herman's Hermits 20 23 22 21 20 5785
    13 21 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 21 29 19 22 19 5320
    NEW 22 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 23 19 24 23 4950
    30 23 Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 22 21 26 26 23 4430
    24 24 The Ballad Of The Green Berets - Staff Sgt Barry Sadler 25 25 23 25 3710
    29 25 That's Nice - Neil Christian 24 22 30 25 21 3500
    15 26 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 26 21 27 26 3325
    28 27 Twinkle Toes - Roy Orbison 28 25 24 29 2370
    25 28 Super Girl - Graham Bonney 27 28 28 28 24 2245
    NEW 29 Highway Code - Master Singers 29 27 27 29 2000
    NEW 30 Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 30 29 20 1800
    Something On My Mind - Chris Andrews 30 24 1400
    Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 25 1200
    These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 27 340
    What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 28 255
    (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 30 200
    I Fought The Law - The Bobby Fuller Four 30 100
    Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Regarding #1 peaks on the various charts, here's what I posted 4 years ago. From March 1960 to Feb 1969, here's a breakdown of how many #1 records each chart had that were NOT #1 on ANY of the other charts, plus how many records were NOT #1 but were #1 on ALL the other charts.

    NME = 7 + 2 = 9 outliers across 8.9 years
    RM = 0 + 1 = 1 outlier across 2 years
    MM = 7 + 6 = 13 outliers across 8.9 years
    Disc = 9 + 5 = 14 outliers across 7.4 years
    RR = 11 + 6 = 17 outliers across 8.9 years

    Interesting stuff. For my full posting, go to

    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...-history/page2

    and scroll down to post #60.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    I remember that about this time there was a discussion in the NME about whether or not advance orders should count when the chart was contructed. The question was raised in connection with the Beatles regularly entering at no. 1 before so many records had been sold over the counter to the public. NME was the first British pop paper on Norwegian newsstands, arriving there in September 62.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Record Retailer now seems to have fallen more into line with the other newspaper charts. Has there been a significant change in their compilation week? I remember Alan Smith writing about the month when Record Retailer first changed its publication date and their charts were all over the place while dealers got used to the new deadlines but that isn't for another 1 years (which should be fun to see on the Ultimate Averaged Chart, it could be all over the place!).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 16th April 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 16th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    5 3 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 3 3 5 3 4 17195
    6 4 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors 4 5 3 7 3 16980
    10 5 Substitute - The Who 5 8 4 8 5 15860
    13 6 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 6 4 8 4 10 15635
    3 7 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 7 10 6 5 7 15090
    4 8 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 8 11 7 6 9 14370
    7 9 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 9 6 11 11 6 14125
    14 10 Bang Bang - Cher 10 9 9 10 13 13530
    12 11 Alfie - Cilla Black 11 7 10 9 18 13355
    11 12 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 12 12 14 12 8 11905
    9 13 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 14 16 12 14 14 10895
    17 14 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 13 13 15 15 12 10815
    8 15 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 17 15 13 13 25 10010
    23 16 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 15 14 16 16 15 10010
    22 17 Someday One Day - The Seekers 16 18 18 19 11 8750
    16 18 Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 18 19 17 17 16 8575
    NEW 19 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 20 17 22 18 23 7030
    25 20 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 19 20 21 21 17 6890
    15 21 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 21 21 20 26 19 6270
    21 22 You Won't Be Leaving - Herman's Hermits 22 29 19 20 20 5435
    18 23 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 23 24 25 22 22 4565
    28 24 The Ballad Of The Green Berets - Staff Sgt Barry Sadler 24= 24 26 23 28 3705
    27 25 Super Girl - Graham Bonney 26 26 24 25 27 3690
    20 26 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 24= 30 23 27 21 3450
    19 27 Sha-La-La-La-Lee - The Small Faces 27 28 29 24 24 2395
    NEW 28 Twinkle Toes - Roy Orbison 28 23 30 30 29 2120
    29 29 That's Nice - Neil Christian 29= 22 29 2000
    NEW 30 Frankie And Johnny - Elvis Presley 29= 28 28 26 1475
    Backstage - Gene Pitney 27 30 1085
    Walkin' My Cat Named Dog - Norma Tanega 27 800



    Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed September 2, 2020, 13:01.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I'm with you on that one Splodj. I've commented a few times that although RR was out of step NME runs a close second.
    MM followed by Disc always seemed to be more 'in the loop' finding the middle point. Both you and Graham make a thought provoking point on the time factor needed to turn around returns, calculations and chart compilation.
    As for MM I do remember reading somewhere that in July 1960 when MM decided it was going to have the best and most accurate chart and therefore hugely increased the number of returns for compilation that it actually hired 'a group of girls' who sat with the old fashioned 'adding up machines, to do all the adding up needed due to the volume of returns that MM received

    The NME is a strange one, I too could never fathom out how they managed to have so many ties week after week and often in high positions including No 1. They also had a far bigger proportion of records reach No 1 that didn't in any other chart especially between the period of April 1965 and March 1966, The Yardbirds, The Everly Brothers, Len Barry, The Hollies. New records entered ahead of other charts but records also left their chart ahead of others too. Interestingly Disc often agreed new entry wise with NME too ahead of the others.
    This is possibly explained by something else I once read up on, in that, NME and Disc both sampled a large proportion of 'independent' shops, whereas RR and MM mainly sampled mainstream stores and shops. So just maybe this accounted for the differences but still doesn't explain the many , many, tied positions

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    It would have took many hours of work to add up all the 250 returns of Melody Maker, assuming they got all 250 results in on time.
    And this is why I am even more suspicious of the NME. Instead of simply opening envelopes they had to phone round the shops first, then do all the calculations - in one day! Also noteworthy is their coyness about sample size, maverick positionings and large number of tied positions.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I apologise for running late guys as I'm just in from work.
    I totally agree with both posts above.Your points are valid and entirely credible. The haphazard way the BBC compiled their chart without due checks for errors itself shows how the BBC did not really take popular music seriously back in the day.
    We easily forget that the 'Light' programme back in the day, the forerunner to Radio 1, was not much into chart music in day to day programming.
    Top Of The Pops was quickly cobbled together not to present a serious chart show but because of the success ITV was having with Ready Steady Go. Even when Radio 1 commenced in September 1967 it wasn't much better and shared prime time listening with Radio 2 and 'What's The Recipe Today Jim' Jimmy Young. That about says it all about how serious it took the popular music industry of the sixties.

    Anyway here is what you really want , the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 9th April 1966 for your perusal.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 9th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 1 1 2 1 1 18800
    7 2 Somebody Help Me - The Spencer Davis Group 2 2 1 2 2 18665
    4 3 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 3 3 3 3 5 17610
    3 4 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 4 4 4 4 4 17145
    11 5 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 5 5 6 5 6 16175
    10 6 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Your Heart - The Bachelors 6 7 5 6 9 15670
    8 7 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 8 6 8 11 7 14790
    2 8 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 7 8 10 8 3 14530
    5 9 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 9 10 7 9 8 14355
    13 10 Substitute - The Who 10 9 9 7 11 14000
    6 11 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 11 12 11 10 10 12685
    21 12 Alfie - Cilla Black 12 14 12 13 13 11480
    28 13 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 13 11 14 12 16 11425
    22 14 Bang Bang - Cher 14 13 13 14 18 10905
    9 15 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 16 16 16 18 14 9495
    18 16 Blue Turns To Grey - Cliff Richard 15 18 15 16 15 9460
    26 17 I Put A Spell On You - The Alan Price Set 17 15 18 15 24 8645
    16 18 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 19 17 21 21 17 7490
    12 19 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 18 21 20 20 12 7465
    15 20 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 21 22 17 24 20 6935
    23 21 You Won't Be Leaving - Herman's Hermits 20 20 22 17 21 6700
    20 22 Someday One Day - The Seekers 22 24 19 22 19 6320
    NEW 23 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 23 19 24 19 26 5775
    14 24 Backstage - Gene Pitney 24 23 23 26 22 4865
    NEW 25 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 25 29 25 23 27 3040
    17 26 Lightning Strikes - Lou Christie 26 25 28 29 25 2660
    NEW 27 Super Girl - Graham Bonney 28 27 27 28 2100
    29 28 The Ballad Of The Green Berets - Staff Sgt Barry Sadler 27 26 25 29 2020
    NEW 29 That's Nice - Neil Christian 30 25 1200
    19 30 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 29 29 23 1180
    Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 28 30 700
    A Hard Day's Night - The Ramsey Lewis Trio 27 400
    I Met A Girl - The Shadows 28 255
    May Each Day - Andy Williams 30 250
    Twinkle Toes - Roy Orbison 30 200
    Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 30 85

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