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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah I'm with you there on Stranger and hoping too it makes #1. The more I deal with RR on compiling The Ultimate Chart the more obvious it is week on week that it is out of step with the other 4. 'Official' Ha Ha.

    Technically though Splodj, Stranger was the second British record to reach #1 in the States, Vera Lynn did it in 1952 with Auf Wiedersehn Sweetheart and stayed there for 9 weeks.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    I'm also looking out for whether 'Stranger On the Shore' gets to number one. It didn't in RR, although it did in all the other 4 charts plus the BBC one. Also the biggest selling single of 1962 in the UK and the first British record to make number one in the USA. Another 'Official' chart travesty.

    The funny thing about those 1963 Beatles songs is that now I prefer to listen to the B sides and album tracks. Perhaps I've overplayed the A sides!

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I can't wait to get to The Ultimate charts for 1963. That was the year music exploded for me and the year The Ultimate chart will chart and place The Beatles singles correctly, ie, Please Please Me at #1 and I Want entering at #1.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Stay - Maurice Williams and The Zodiacs
    Later covered by The Hollies. No. 8 in December 1963.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I can personally vouch for Josh MacRae's "Messing About On The River" being played to death by the BBC at this time - or at least as far as their needle time restrictions would allow!

    It was very noticeable that the BBC promoted UK acts as much as possible and limited exposure to USA ones.

    This also influenced what version of a song got into the charts. Mention has already been made of 'Portrait Of My Love'. Even more striking, in my opinion, was what happened later in the year with 'I Love How You Love Me' when Jimmy Crawford made the charts and the superlative Paris Sisters were nowhere to be seen.
    Spot on Splodj. Messing About On The River was much played on Childrens' Choice back then with Uncle Mac.
    I love the superlative Paris Sisters version of I Love How You Love Me, criminally ignored, with attention focused on Jimmy Crawford's awful version.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    I can personally vouch for Josh MacRae's "Messing About On The River" being played to death by the BBC at this time - or at least as far as their needle time restrictions would allow!

    It was very noticeable that the BBC promoted UK acts as much as possible and limited exposure to USA ones.

    This also influenced what version of a song got into the charts. Mention has already been made of 'Portrait Of My Love'. Even more striking, in my opinion, was what happened later in the year with 'I Love How You Love Me' when Jimmy Crawford made the charts and the superlative Paris Sisters were nowhere to be seen.
    Last edited by Splodj; Fri January 15, 2021, 13:05.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    In comes Pepe from Duane Eddy. Cracking Toon ! An older cousin of mine had bought that and played it to death.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    There are a massive 15 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 14th 1961.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 14th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Poetry In Motion - Johnny Tillotson 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    2 2 I Love You / 'D' In Love - Cliff Richard 2 2 2 2 2 2 9570
    3 3 Save The Last Dance For Me - The Drifters 3 3 3 3 5 3 9140
    4 4 It's Now Or Never - Elvis Presley 5 4 4 4 6 4 8810
    8 5 Perfidia - The Ventures 4 5 5 5 3 10 8530
    12 6 Counting Teardrops - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 7 7 6 6 7 11 7970
    13 7 Portrait Of My Love - Matt Monro 8 6 7 10 8 5 7680
    5 8 Lonely Pup - Adam Faith 6 8 10 7 4 12 7660
    7 9 Goodness Gracious Me - Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren 9 9 11 9 12 6 7080
    9 10 Man Of Mystery / The Stranger - The Shadows 12 14 18 8 15 7 6190
    10 11 Rocking Goose - Johnny and The Hurricanes 10= 11 19 11 14 8 6060
    18 12 Sway - Bobby Rydell 13 13 14 13 13 13 5880
    16 13 Buona Sera - Mr. Acker Bilk 14 12 9 15 17 14 5810
    17 14 Blue Angel / Today's Teardrops - Roy Orbison 15 10 17 16 20 15 5200
    6 15 Strawberry Fair / A Boy Without A Girl - Anthony Newley 10= 15 12 9 9 5130
    21 16 Like Strangers - The Everly Brothers 20 18 12 18 19 16 4660
    23 17 Stay - Maurice Williams and The Zodiacs 17= 16 13 14 25 4330
    15 18 Gurney Slade - Max Harris 16 22 19 10 18 3480
    14 19 Strawberry Blonde - Frank D'Rone 17= 20 20 11 24 3300
    19 20 Little Girl - Marty Wilde 19 16 20 16 20 2940
    11 21 Little Donkey - Nina and Frederick 23 17 17 2600
    NEW 22 Pepe - Duane Eddy 18 8 2420
    29 23 Black Stockings - The John Barry Seven 23 15 27 1720
    NEW 24 North To Alaska - Johnny Horton 21 18 1450
    NEW 25 Piltdown Rides Again - The Piltdown Men 15 960
    NEW 26 Many Tears Ago - Connie Francis 25 480
    NEW 27 Chariot - Rhet Stoller 26 400
    NEW 28 You're Sixteen - Johnny Burnette 26 400
    25 29 My Heart Has A Mind Of Its Own - Connie Francis 19 360
    NEW 30 Doll House - The King Brothers 28 28 330
    As Long As He Needs Me - Shirley Bassey 21 300
    Dreamin' - Johnny Burnette 22 270
    My Love For You - Johnny Mathis 23 240
    Bangers And Mash - Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren 29 160
    Lively - Lonnie Donegan 26 150
    Pepe - Russ Conway 30 80
    Mr. Custer - Charlie Drake 29 60
    Ol' MacDonald - Frank Sinatra 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    I took the spelling from Record Mirror's spelling on their chart chart Graham so assumed it to be correct.
    Yeah it is a mystery that Josh had a few hits solely in the RM Top 20, but every chart at one time or another had strange anomalies.
    The papers of the period where not good at spelling. There were no spell checkers, back then! I remember a 60's Record Mirror changing the name of an artist so that a female became male. I don't think they ever corrected it! Probably because the printers used to charge extra for alterations to the "copy". Once the type was set it was cheaper to use the same thing over and over again.

    If you can try the name and title in 45 Cat. I now use that as the main source of all charts that I now produce. The chart makers often change the names of acts and titles of songs.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    On the subject of the BBC and their distaste of anything immoral I remember reading once that they banned Paper Doll by The Mills Brothers way back in 1943 because 'it encouraged soldiers to seek out other women when away from their wives'.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I took the spelling from Record Mirror's spelling on their chart chart Graham so assumed it to be correct.
    Yeah it is a mystery that Josh had a few hits solely in the RM Top 20, but every chart at one time or another had strange anomalies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    I checked out the Josh MacRae (you are spelling his name wrong Brian) record on 45 Cat and the A side is Dear John. It doesn't surprise me that Wild Side Of Life wasn't the A side, since it would have banned by the BEEB straight away! If you listen to the lyrics it was about a bloke who discovers his wife to be a lesbian who goes to "gay" clubs! The Honky Tonk thing! As male homosexuality was still illegal in 1961, any mention of sex (never mind gay sex) was a no go for the BBC. Of course many years later in 1976 nobody at the BBC was bothered by that sort of thing so the Quo could get away with it!
    The single by the way has only five owns on 45 Cat, so Pye might have been on the fiddle or maybe it was the Scots shops that were selling it!
    I don't think you can assume "gay" means "homosexual" in a song this old - the word was used to mean "hedonistic/immoral" before it acquired it's present meaning....
    Still, the lyrics would have been controversial anyway as the term "Honky Tonk Angel" was a euphemism for a "loose woman" or prostitute - as Cliff Richard was horrified to discover when he recorded a single with that title in '75...

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    I checked out the Josh MacRae (you are spelling his name wrong Brian) record on 45 Cat and the A side is Dear John. It doesn't surprise me that Wild Side Of Life wasn't the A side, since it would have banned by the BEEB straight away! If you listen to the lyrics it was about a bloke who discovers his wife to be a lesbian who goes to "gay" clubs! The Honky Tonk thing! As male homosexuality was still illegal in 1961, any mention of sex (never mind gay sex) was a no go for the BBC. Of course many years later in 1976 nobody at the BBC was bothered by that sort of thing so the Quo could get away with it!
    The single by the way has only five owns on 45 Cat, so Pye might have been on the fiddle or maybe it was the Scots shops that were selling it!

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    That is quite strange. Is there any reason you can think of why it may have happened? With up to 60 shops providing chart data to RM I wouldn't have expected just one or two shops where he may have been very popular to have affected their chart so much.
    Since Josh McCrae was a Scottish folk singer, perhaps RM had a few more Scottish stores than the others? Perhaps more stores in a specific part of Scotland - i.e. wherever he was from? Any additional evidence of a Scottish bias to the artists charting in RM? Or perhaps a genre bias - more folksy?
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Thu January 14, 2021, 19:45.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Strangely on that subject Robbie Josh McCrae had a number of singles that charted in the RM Top 20 yet never charted on any other chart.
    That is quite strange. Is there any reason you can think of why it may have happened? With up to 60 shops providing chart data to RM I wouldn't have expected just one or two shops where he may have been very popular to have affected their chart so much.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Strangely on that subject Robbie Josh McCrae had a number of singles that charted in the RM Top 20 yet never charted on any other chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I notice that 'Wild Side Of Life' by Josh MacRae never charted on Record Retailer despite charting so high on Record Mirror. 45cat.com has it listed as a B side (to 'Dear John'). The first time I heard 'Wild Side Of Life' was back in 1976 when covered by Status Quo. They also released a single called 'Dear John' but it's not the same song as sung by Josh MacRae.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Much as I truly like and admire the late great Matt Monro I personally think Steve Lawrence's version of Portrait Of My Love was the superior version.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here we go into 1961 !​​

    There are 11 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 7th 1961.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 7th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    4 1 Poetry In Motion - Johnny Tillotson 1 1 1 1 2 3 9790
    2 2 I Love You / 'D' In Love - Cliff Richard 2 3 3 2 1 1 9510
    3 3 Save The Last Dance For Me - The Drifters 3= 2 2 4 5 2 9200
    1 4 It's Now Or Never - Elvis Presley 3= 4 4 3 4 6 8960
    5 5 Lonely Pup - Adam Faith 5 5 5 5 3 4 8710
    7 6 Strawberry Fair / A Boy Without A Girl - Anthong Newley 6 9 7 9 6 5 7650
    8 7 Goodness Gracious Me - Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren 7 7 9 8 11 7 7490
    9 8 Perfidia - The Ventures 8 8 6 11 8 9 7350
    11 9 Man Of Mystery / The Stranger - The Shadows 10 10 8 7 16 13 6990
    12 10 Rocking Goose - Johnny and The Hurricanes 9 6 14 10 14 10 6810
    6 11 Little Donkey - Nina and Frederick 11= 21 11 6 7 8 6640
    13 12 Counting Teardrops - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 11= 12 9 12 10 11 6580
    20 13 Portrait Of My Love - Matt Monro 14 13 12 16 12 12 5750
    21 14 Strawberry Blonde - Frank D'Rone 15 14 15 17 13 4760
    10 15 Gurney Slade - Max Harris 13 18 13 9 16 4570
    30 16 Buona Sera - Mr. Acker Bilk 17= 16 20 15 20 30 4200
    17 17 Blue Angel / Today's Teardrops - Roy Orbison 17= 11 18 19 19 4060
    25 18 Sway - Bobby Rydell 16 16 14 15 3870
    19 19 Little Girl - Marty Wilde 19 14 17 18 29 2910
    16 20 As Long As He Needs Me - Shirley Bassey 20 20 21 2390
    24 21 Like Strangers - The Everly Brothers 20 23 20 17 18 2390
    22 22 Dreamin' - Johnny Burnette 27 18 23 1990
    NEW 23 Stay - Maurice Williams and The Zodiacs 19 19 24 1890
    29 24 Wild Side Of Life - Josh McCrae 13 1080
    23 25 My Heart Has A Mind Of Its Own - Connie Francis 24 15 1040
    15 26 Lively - Lonnie Donegan 25 14 990
    26 27 Ten Swingin' Bottles - Pete Chester and The Chesternuts 16 900
    NEW 28 Till - Tony Bennett 22 720
    RE 29 Black Stockings - The John Barry Seven 30 19 680
    14 30 My Love For You - Johnny Mathis 30 17 500
    G. I. Blues (LP) - Elvis Presley 28 240
    Chariot - Rhet Stoller 26 400
    Ol' MacDonald - Frank Sinatra 20 330
    Mr. Custer - Charlie Drake 22 270
    It's You That I Love - Marion Ryan 28 240
    Just As Much As Ever - Nat King Cole 25 180
    Only The Lonely - Roy Orbison 26 150
    Milord - Edith Piaf 27 120
    Even More Party Pops - Russ Conway 28 90

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Josh McCrae amended from New to Re on 31st December

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Josh McCrae Wild Side Of Love is a re-entry and not a new entry in the 31st December chart. It has only been charting on the RM chart the last 3 weeks and this there was no RM chart last week it fell off the chart.
    Oops. I will amend that brain. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Had you been living in New York this is what you would have been listening to on WABC ...
    https://musicradio77.com/Surveys/196...eynov2569.html

    The records above the dotted line (Top 14) were on high rotation and those below (Nos 15-20 and risers below) on low rotation.

    On this website it is interesting to see their charts back to 1960 and how they formed the basis of the A-lists and B-lists on what was arguably the leading Top 40 station.
    That is a great site and on that chart listed there are five future #1 records, J5, Supremes, Peter Paul and Mary, Beatles, and Steam, Na Na Na Na.......

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah brain we could make a good case for many ways to compile the chart. Its a case of u pays your money and make ur choice. I'm using what I think is a reliable, robust, and credible method but of course there are always others. Mine is just one example.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    This is indeed what I would argue.

    I agree that for the previous week this means that the average of the other charts should have been taken for Cliff then, when both sides did chart on NME, but it would only increase Cliff's score and not change his position.
    Yeah Splodj, I actually calculate the average of the other charts anyway if both sides of a record enter the Top 30. If it just increases the score without altering the position then it is ignored like you say.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Josh McCrae Wild Side Of Love is a re-entry and not a new entry in the 31st December chart. It has only been charting on the RM chart the last 3 weeks and this there was no RM chart last week it fell off the chart.
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Wed January 13, 2021, 20:41.

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