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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • The issue in all of this is not knowing exactly the original data each chart compiler had to put their own chart together. We know how MrTibbs is doing this chart because he has been very open and transparent over how he is doing it. We also know that the BBC chart was inconsistent in it's approach at times as, to be fair, where the others at times. Having the raw data makes it very easy to decide on how to deal with sides, but I do suspect that, as we have seen in the early RM returns, shops where simply picking a side and reporting that and sometimes it was a double A and sometimes it was not non the printed chart.

    Keep up the good work
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

    Comment


    • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 15th 1956

      Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 15th 1956 NME MM RM Total
      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
      1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
      2 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 2 2 4205
      6 3 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 3 3 4060
      3 4 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 4 6 4 3875
      13 5 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 5 8 5 3710
      5 6 My Prayer - The Platters 6 5 6 3645
      10 7 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 7 7 7 3480
      4 8 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 8 4 9 3355
      7 9 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 9 10 8 3230
      11 10 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 10 9 10 3065
      8 11 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 11 14 11 2840
      14 12 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 11 17 13 2660
      9 13 More - Jimmy Young 15 13 12 2540
      12 14 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 14 11 16 2405
      17 15 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 13 12 19 2270
      18 16 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 17 15 15 2190
      15 17 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 21 18 16 1810
      20 18 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 20 14 1735
      NEW 19 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 23 16 18 1600
      25 20 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 15 20 1260
      28 21 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 18 20 1065
      21 22 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 19 780
      16 23 Only You - The Platters 20 660
      19 24 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 22 585
      23 25 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and The Comets 24 455
      27 26 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 25 390
      NEW 27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Vince Martin 26 325
      30 28 Green Door - Glen Mason 27 260
      22 28 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B) 18 260
      RE 30 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and The Comets 28 195
      More - Perry Como 29 130
      Rip It Up - Little Richard 30 65
      24 In The Middle Of The House - Jimmy Parkinson
      25 In The Middle Of The House - Alma Cogan
      29 Autumn Concerto - The Melachrino Orchestra
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

      Comment


      • The battle of 'Singing The Blues' is now underway as Tommy Steele's version enters as Guy Mitchell storms into the top 5.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
          The battle of 'Singing The Blues' is now underway as Tommy Steele's version enters as Guy Mitchell storms into the top 5.
          The clash takes place next month in January 1957 Robbie when they meet in the top three. Gloves off !
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

            Thanks again brain for raising this important point for debate. I've taken a look back like I said with previous charts and note I have been consistent on this point throughout where a split side is on two charts and not the third.

            The reason being where a record has split sides and both chart, each has to be considered independently on its own merit. In your case above NME don't list Hound and Cruel as a double sided single like they normally do most times, they just list Hound. So Cruel has to be judged on its own merit just like any other record missing from an individual chart. Cruel charted in RM and MM only so only their points qualify for consideration in this case so the above chart is correct.

            I hope this clarifies how such cases are fairly considered. Phew ! I need an Aspirin
            Thank you for the clarification. I understand you reasoning and based on the available information, it may be the best option rather than to speculate....

            Comment


            • At least we can say the rules of the UAC are clear and transparent even if the rules of the charts at the time were not!

              Comment


              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 22nd 1956

                Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 22nd 1956 NME MM RM Total
                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
                2 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 3 3 4125
                5 3 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 4 2 2 4075
                3 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 4 4 3980
                7 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 5 5 6 3710
                4 6 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and The Comets 6 8 5 3645
                6 7 My Prayer - The Platters 8 5 7 3455
                10 8 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 7 10 9 3300
                9 9 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley 11 7 8 3160
                8 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 10 9 10 3065
                12 11 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 9 13 11 2990
                16 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 14 11 12 2645
                13 13 More - Jimmy Young 14 16 13 2485
                14 14 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 13 12 19 2270
                11 15 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A) 17 18 14 2190
                19 16 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 19 14 17 1960
                20 17 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 12 20 1895
                25 18 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 25 14 16 1630
                18 19 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 29 20 15 1310
                15 20 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 18 16 1145
                21 21 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 16 975
                24 22 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat Ki ng Cole 22 19 825
                17 23 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 18 780
                22 24 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 20 715
                26 24 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 20 715
                RE 26 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 23 520
                NEW 27 Christmas And You - Dave King 24 455
                30 28 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and The Comets 26 325
                NEW 29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 27 260
                RE 30 Blueberry Hill Fats Domino 30 65
                Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 28
                23 Only You - The Platters
                27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Vince Martin
                28 Green Door - Glen Mason
                28 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • This week Lonnie Donegan becomes one of the few elite artists to place an LP on one of the music paper singles charts.

                  Next week's chart is the surprise I mentioned a week or so back. Your thoughts and feedback on this surprise when it comes probably on Wednesday will be interesting
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • As well as the Guy Mitchell Showcase album I linked to last week, my mother also owned the Tommy Steele Showcase album too. Surprisingly the album isn't listed at discogs.com nor on his discography page at wikipedia. I think the album may have been a 10" album rather than 12". It's possible the Guy Mitchell album was also 10"

                    Comment


                    • I think you're right Robbie. If I remember correctly the original Guy Mitchell Showcase that my mother had was 10'' and a few years later it was reissued as a 12'' with a couple more tracks.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • Oops. the eye deceives! I've just realised I've posted about a Tommy Steele showcase album when MrTibbs had typed Lonnie Donegan. That will explain why I couldn't find it at discogs.com...

                        Comment


                        • Here is the surprise Ultimate Averaged Chart I have been hinting at a couple of times over the past few weeks. I have compiled an UAC for the 29th December 1956 where only NME compiled a chart and MM and RM did not, a first for the UAC where non compiled weeks are present by music papers. I will be interested to hear your feedback on this experimental UAC so feel free to offer your comments.

                          But first an explanation as to what you are seeing in the columns for MM and RM. To try and establish a likely chart for both papers for non compiled 29th December I took a mid-point average between the record position each paper allocated on their chart for each record for the weeks of 22nd December and 5th January 1957. So for example, if a record was #1 on both of those weeks it would have a mid-point average of 1, if it was #1 on 29th December but #2 on 5th January the mid-point average would be 1.5, if #2 then #4 mid-point average would be 3, and so on for every record and chart position. Where MM and RM columns are blank this means the record placed on NME for that week did not feature on MM or RM for either week.

                          As some records would leave the chart after 29th, and some entered on 5th January thus missing out on a week it would disadvantage such records as each would likely still place on the UAC Top 30, so, for the purpose of this chart such records were granted the luxury of points of #21 on the chart in order to establish a fair average for the missing week of 29th December.

                          I have to say I was surprised to see the outcome as the result produced what looks like a chart that fits well into this non compiled week. For the purists among you though you have the compiled NME chart to go on for this week.
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 29th 1956 NME MM RM Total
                            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                            1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
                            3 2 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 2 2 1 4265
                            2 3 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 3 3 3 4060
                            4 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 4 4 3980
                            5 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 6 4 6 3665
                            8 6 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 5 8 7 3590
                            6 7 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 9 7 5 3470
                            7 8 My Prayer - The Platters 10 6 8 3245
                            11 9 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 7 14 14 2920
                            10 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 12 11 10 2895
                            9 11 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 16 8 8 2815
                            12 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 11 13 12 2800
                            16 13 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 17 10 10 2590
                            13 14 More - Jimmy Young 13 16 17 2310
                            15 15 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 22 14 13 2005
                            17 16 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 8 1495
                            14 17 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 15 12 1420
                            30 18 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 25 20 20 1270
                            18 19 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 18 15 1220
                            23 20 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 16 16 1200
                            NEW 21 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 14 1105
                            20 22 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 21 19 890
                            24 23 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 18 845
                            24 24 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 19 780
                            19 25 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 18 780
                            RE 26 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand 19 720
                            21 27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 20 715
                            27 28 Christmas And You - Dave King 23 520
                            NEW 29 Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers 24 455
                            26 30 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 26 325
                            22 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 30 20 285
                            29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 27 260
                            All Of You - Sammy Davis Jnr. 28 195
                            Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 29 130
                            28 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets 30 65
                            MM and RM did not compile a chart this week so an average position was taken of likely chart position for this non compiled week by taking a mid point position between the chart for 22nd December and the chart for 5th January 1957 for both charts in order to compile an experimental Ultimate Averaged Chart.
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • The first advantage that springs out is that the tie at 3 is broken, and in a convincing way. The differences below that are greater than I would have expected, particularly as this is the slow-moving time of year. Perhaps the MM and RM weightings should be halved to produce a fairer picture.

                              I admire the way that every year NME produced a chart in Christmas week, while the other charts compilers were partying!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                The first advantage that springs out is that the tie at 3 is broken, and in a convincing way. The differences below that are greater than I would have expected, particularly as this is the slow-moving time of year. Perhaps the MM and RM weightings should be halved to produce a fairer picture.

                                I admire the way that every year NME produced a chart in Christmas week, while the other charts compilers were partying!
                                I think you are going on those week ending dates. They confuse a lot of people. That chart for the 29 December was for the week 23 December and was for the sales week previous when buyers were rushing out to buy last minute records for presents. So it shouldn't have been a slow week sales wise. It was good that NME did that week and the others didn't due to the sales period. However we don't know if they got around doing the chart in the Christmas week by simply cutting the shops phoned down to 20 or whatever to get it done faster.
                                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                Comment


                                • As a method of compiling a one-off chart, it is fine. The NME chart seems like an outlier in some way despite it being the only chart compiled that week. However, the NME chart itself was (as Graham has mentioned) probably compiled from fewer returns than usual to get the chart compiled in time for publication and so it may not as be as robust as usual.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                    As a method of compiling a one-off chart, it is fine. The NME chart seems like an outlier in some way despite it being the only chart compiled that week.
                                    At first glance maybe Robbie, but in the Top 20 where also MM and RM feature, 11 of the UAC positions are either the same position or only one place out from the NME position whilst another 4 are only two places out, so 15 records, 75% of the Top 20 is approximately within the same ball park.
                                    On the week before, the 22nd December, where all 3 charts were compiled 16 records met the same standard so not that far out really by comparison.
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • That's a most interesting exercise there Brian. Just for the heck of it, I'd also do a midpoint chart of NME for 22 Dec and 5 Jan, and see how that compares to the actual NME for 29 Jan, and versus the MM and RM missing midpoint charts. Just 'cause I'm a math nut, ha...

                                      As in if the NME midpoint chart is extremely close to the actual NME chart, then that would give some kind of confidence to the MM and RM midpoint charts.

                                      You could also rank the midpoint chart positions from 1 to 20 (or whatever) just to smooth them out and not have to deal with half points.

                                      But I do like this concept. The question is (as I've asked before), which would be the more 'correct' thing to do with a skipped week chart? To leave it as 'no chart', to freeze the previous week, to back-freeze with the following week, or to do a midpoint chart? I think a midpoint chart is closest to the 'truth'.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
                                        That's a most interesting exercise there Brian. Just for the heck of it, I'd also do a midpoint chart of NME for 22 Dec and 5 Jan, and see how that compares to the actual NME for 29 Jan, and versus the MM and RM missing midpoint charts. Just 'cause I'm a math nut, ha...

                                        As in if the NME midpoint chart is extremely close to the actual NME chart, then that would give some kind of confidence to the MM and RM midpoint charts.

                                        You could also rank the midpoint chart positions from 1 to 20 (or whatever) just to smooth them out and not have to deal with half points.

                                        But I do like this concept. The question is (as I've asked before), which would be the more 'correct' thing to do with a skipped week chart? To leave it as 'no chart', to freeze the previous week, to back-freeze with the following week, or to do a midpoint chart? I think a midpoint chart is closest to the 'truth'.
                                        Interesting! Interesting! Interesting !

                                        I like those suggestions .. A Lot !

                                        In the next few days I will do that one for the NME as a comparison because it would be interesting to see.

                                        I called this an experimental chart because depending on the outcome I intend to replicate the process for all end of year charts where one or more was not compiled at the end of the year right up to the end of 1968. If so, that would mean going back and making some corrections to each of those charts affected to give a true UAC all the way from 1956 to 1968 to include all charts.
                                        I am thus far impressed with the outcome on this experimental chart and if the NME comparison gives a result not far away from the actual then we may well be on to a winner.

                                        The reason I did not break down the points to chart position numbers for the MM and RM averages above on the 29th December chart was to demonstrate openly how I reached the decision for each record.
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • This is a very interesting development. I am a fan of statistics and what's happening is essentially averaging the chart out to look at patterns. If a song was 1-2-BLANK CHART-12 then we can, with some confidence, say it was between 3 and 11 in that missing week, and what this does is try and give some sort of idea as to where that record might be. I like the results and, actually, the positions do match with the NME chart as well as other weeks have.

                                          I to like the suggestion to try it for NME and see what we get. It will, of course, not match properly - but that's not the point as this is a proof of concept. For charts based on points I think this is relatively good. We are, after all, applying modern methods to a process that was not very rigorous at the start - let's be honest, scoring each record as points and then adding them up is not a good method to be totally accurate and true sales figures are the way forward. But, we have none of those original sales figures. So this does seem really good!
                                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                          Comment


                                          • I am liking what I hear from you guys. I too am both surprised and heartened by the outcome because it does look both relevant and consistent for the missing week fitting in well. You are right Lonnie, the 'experimental' NME chart for the missing week will be interesting but not alike point for point as obviously the system used is different. I also think Robbie and Graham make a good point that it is likely NME used a reduced panel for this end of year week.

                                            I can't resist saying here to go off topic for a moment, I can't comprehend how the record buying public in 1956 bought and charted Patience and Prudence's horrendous record and blatantly ignored the wonderful, harmonic, mind blowing Oh What A Night by The Dells straight out of The Platters mould. Now there is a record fit for the very chart summit.That sax break in the middle makes me 'smoke'.

                                            Wonderful stuff
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                              I can't resist saying here to go off topic for a moment, I can't comprehend how the record buying public in 1956 bought and charted Patience and Prudence's horrendous record and blatantly ignored the wonderful, harmonic, mind blowing Oh What A Night by The Dells straight out of The Platters mould. Now there is a record fit for the very chart summit.That sax break in the middle makes me 'smoke'.

                                              Wonderful stuff
                                              The answer to that question is simple. The public in the UK couldn't get hold of The Dells track as it wasn't released in the UK till 1969!
                                              According to the 45 worlds and 45 Cat site. The Dells only issued records in the USA in the 1950's and they only started releasing records in the UK in 1963.

                                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                              Comment


                                              • ... and so into 1957 we go as Donegan and Presley both attempt to dominate the UK music scene for supremacy.

                                                Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 5th 1957

                                                Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '


                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 5th 1957 NME MM RM Total
                                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 25 60 Points
                                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
                                                2 1 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 1 2 1 4475
                                                1 2 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 2 1 2 4375
                                                3 3 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 3 3 3 4200
                                                4 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 4 5 4 4025
                                                13 5 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 6 6 4 3870
                                                5 6 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 5 4 7 3805
                                                6 7 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 7 7 7 3600
                                                7 8 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 9 7 6 3530
                                                11 9 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley 8 10 9 3340
                                                10 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 10 13 11 3015
                                                12 11 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 11 17 12 2790
                                                8 12 My Prayer - The Platters 16 9 10 2785
                                                9 13 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 14 16 17 2320
                                                20 14 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 19 13 14 2250
                                                15 15 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A) 22 11 13 2165
                                                24 16 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 16 20 19 1970
                                                18 17 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 21 19 18 1730
                                                23 18 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 19 20 20 1715
                                                17 19 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 12 13 1685
                                                19 20 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 25 14 1410
                                                14 21 More - Jimmy Young 15 18 1365
                                                22 22 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 18 12 1320
                                                21 23 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 13 1170
                                                26 24 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand 16 900
                                                27 25 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 23 520
                                                16 25 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 23 520
                                                RE 27 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets 27 260
                                                RE 28 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 28 195
                                                NEW 29 Friendly Persuasion - The Four Aces 29 130
                                                30 30 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 30 65
                                                Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 26
                                                25 The Green Door - Jim Lowe
                                                28 Christmas And You - Dave King
                                                29 Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • Please revisit the chart for 29th December. I initially entered just the points each record achieved on the MM and RM chart once averaged over the two week period just to exemplify the methodology used to achieve points allocated for each record.
                                                  I have today returned to that chart and converted the points allocated in descending order to allocate appropriate chart positions to each record based on these points so you now have an actual likely Top 20 for the 29th December for MM and RM.

                                                  As a result a few records below the Top 10 had their placement changed a little from the original order just based on points. I think the chart now has greater clarity as a result. I have already amended any affected last week positions in the chart for 5th January.
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Is Donegan the only act to get an EP and an LP into the 'official' singles chart?

                                                    Comment

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