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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Great work MrTibbs! Apologies for the delay in mentioning this, but I just noticed that the entry of Sandy Nelson with Teen Beat on the 6/2/1960 chart was actually a re-entry.

    Leave a comment:


  • membranemusic
    replied
    It's great to see 5 charts battling it out. It reminds me of the heady days of 1978-1979 when 5 charts (3 business, 2 consumer) were busy trying to outdo each other!

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Lots of good stuff on that chart to welcome you

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    My birth date chart (exact day)

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 11th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 11th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
    2 2 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 2 2 2 2 2 2 7482
    5 3 Three Steps To Heaven - Eddie Cochran 4 5 3 3 5 3 6964
    9 4 Mama / Robot Man - Connie Francis* 6 8 3 5 4 7 6838
    4 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 5 3 5 6 7 5 6730
    3 6 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 3 4 6 4 3 15 6566
    6 7 Shazam - Duane Eddy 7 6 7 7 6 4 6412
    11 8 I Wanna Go Home - Lonnie Donegan 8 7 8 8 9 6 6024
    7 9 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time- Adam Faith 10 10 11 14 11 13 5066
    8 10 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 11 17 10 9 10 8 4956
    15 11 Sixteen Reasons - Connie Stevens 9 12 17 11 8 19 4630
    12 12 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 12 14 16 10 15 9 4518
    16 13 Lucky Five - Russ Conway 19 16 9 18 14 3680
    17 14 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 16= 11 14 19 17 3496
    14 15 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 15 25 15 15 12 16 3448
    10 16 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 13 19 13 13 10 3174
    19 17 That's You - Nat King Cole 16= 13 19 17 24 3070
    13 18 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 14 21 12 14 11 2972
    29 19 Ain't Misbehavin' - Tommy Bruce 20 18 12 17 2712
    20 20 Let The Little Girl Dance - Billy Bland 18 15 18 19 20 2704
    NEW 21 Down Yonder - Johnny and The Hurricanes 23 12 16 2350
    18 22 The Urge - Freddy Cannon 24 20 16 18 2118
    26 23 That's Love - Billy Fury 22 20 21 1680
    23 24 You'll Never Know What You're Missin' - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 30 18 12 1430
    NEW 25 River Stay 'Way From My Door - Frank Sinatra 20 880
    22 26 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 20 26 700
    21 27 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 28 22 510
    NEW 28 Mustapha - Bob Azzam 26 400
    RE 29 Milord - Edith Piaf 27 320
    28 30 Sweet Dreams - Dave Sampson 28 29 300
    Robot Man - Connie Francis 9
    Green Jeans - The Flee-Rekkers 23 240
    Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 25 180
    True Love Ways - Buddy Holly 27 120
    Got A Girl - The Four Preps 28 90
    My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 30 30
    * This week the split sides would have affected NME's
    averaged chart position so an average was taken
    from the other 4 charts giving an average of 4.75
    and awarded to NME to give a more representative
    chart position for both sides together.
    0

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    June 11th will be posted later this morning.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Guys, please see amended chart above for June 4th.

    I had listed Billy Fury for NME then again for RR on two separate lines. I have corrected this so both chart positions are on the same line.
    As a result Billy is now 26 as opposed to 27 on previous entry.

    I am meticulous on checking the charts before posting but this somehow bypassed my eagle eye.

    It is again good that you guys pick up on an occasional typing error here and there and point it out, and I appreciate it. This keeps the charts 100% accurate.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Ah ! Sorry. Will fix that in the morning. Thanks for the heads up.

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  • Woz1234
    replied
    You've got "That's Love - Billy Fury" twice on that last chart (4th June).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 10 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 4th 1960.


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 4th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
    2 2 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 2 2 2 2 2 2 7482
    5 3 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 4 4 5 5 3 4 6918
    4 4 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 3 3 4 4 5 7 6906
    8 5 Three Steps To Heaven - Eddie Cochran 5 8 6 3 4 3 6594
    6 6 Shazam - Duane Eddy 6 6 3 6 7 9 6490
    3 7 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 7 5 8 7 8 5 6302
    9 8 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 8 7 10 9 9 6 5866
    11 9 Mama / Robot Man - Connie Francis 10 9 7 8 10 15 5604
    7 10 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 9 10 14 10 6 8 5438
    16 11 I Wanna Go Home - Lonnie Donegan 11 11 9 12 16 18 4782
    12 12 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 12= 17 13 11 14 13 4350
    10 13 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 12= 15 16 14 13 11 4326
    13 14 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 14 20 12 13 12 10 4284
    22 15 Sixteen Reasons - Connie Stevens 15 18 19 17 11 17 3712
    21 16 Lucky Five - Russ Conway 19 13 11 20 19 3418
    15 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 16 14 15 16 14 3400
    18 18 The Urge - Freddy Cannon 17 20 18 15 17 26 3118
    19 19 That's You - Nat King Cole 20 19 17 19 19 25 3036
    24 20 Let The Little Girl Dance - Billy Bland 18 16 20 20 21 2710
    17 21 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 23 18 16 1740
    14 22 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 26 15 20 1530
    NEW 23 You'll Never Know What You're Missin' - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 25 22 750
    NEW 24 Got A Girl - The Four Preps 22 720
    23 25 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 29 18 30 684
    NEW 26 That's Love - Billy Fury 24 27 680
    20 27 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 12 570
    NEW 28 Sweet Dreams - Dave Sampson 27 320
    NEW 29 Ain't Misbehavin' - Tommy Bruce 27 320
    RE 30 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 23 240
    Robot Man - Connie Francis 11
    My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 24 210
    Green Jeans - The Flea Rekkers 28 90
    Milord - Edith Piaf 30 80
    Kookie Kookie (Lend Me Your Comb) - Ed Byrnes and Connie Stevens 29 60
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Fri December 18, 2020, 08:02. Reason: Amended chart as Billy Fury had been entered twice instead of once.

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  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Thanks for the info kingofskiffle.
    There are some differences in the lyrics and the Beach Boys have 2 extra verses. Same tune though.
    Wikipedia list dozens of different recordings, the earliest dating from 1935.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloop_John_B

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Im working today guys so will post the next chart tonight .

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Thanks for the info kingofskiffle.
    There are some differences in the lyrics and the Beach Boys have 2 extra verses. Same tune though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post

    I didn't know that Millward Brown had changed hands!
    And Kantar! Quite bizzare. The BBC charts are under control of two men who worked for ITV
    Millward Brown was known as Kantar Millward Brown for a while before Kantar changed the name of all the various divisions it owned to simply Kantar. Interestingly in 2009 Kantar bought the British Market Research Bureau which means that both Millward Brown and the BMRB are now owned by the same company. The BMRB are still in the same office in Ealing where they were based while compiling the UK charts. I wonder if they still have all the sales information from back then? Who knows, it could be hidden in their vaults. When Gallup took over compiling the charts at the end of 1982 I believe they refused to hand anything over to Gallup or even the BPI so kept all of their sales data. Of course the BPI do have all of the sales data from the old chart reports that were compiled by BARS for the music industry. Or at least I hope they still have them. The library has been closed to the public for many years now and the last I heard things were stored in boxes in hallways.
    Last edited by Robbie; Thu December 17, 2020, 00:17.

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    From the OCC web site,

    In turn, we can only do our job with the support of our contracted market research partner, Kantar (formerly Millward Brown)
    I didn't know that Millward Brown had changed hands!
    And Kantar! Quite bizzare. The BBC charts are under control of two men who worked for ITV

    Ian Griffiths (former CFO and COO at ITV was named Chief Financial Officer of Kantar, while Adam Crozier (former chief executive officer of media company ITV) was appointed Chairman.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Buddy Holly's True Love Ways, new at 29 was a gem of a single and should have done so much better .
    Not much better judging by the owns on 45 Cat. It has 58 owns, and a value of 15. So the owns versus chart position would only get it about 10 places higher than NME. I always remove each pound from the owns giving it only 43. No money and it could get to six on 58 owns.
    It also has a release date of the 20 May so the record didn't wait around to get into NME chart. I wonder if NME were rotating chart shops at this point? For perhaps it was only selling in some stores and then next week, most of the stores were not include, so out it goes!
    Might explain why a new hit comes in then doesn't do anything next week. It's not like when the records were sold cheap in the first week and then full price the next week: hence high new entry and out - of the 1990's.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Is I Wanna Go Home - by Lonnie Donegan the same song as Sloop John B by the Beach Boys?
    Yes.

    Lonnie Donegan: https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/1732281...+Wanna+Go+Home
    Beach Boys: https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/8288663...s/Sloop+John+B

    The full title of the Lonnie D track is "I Wanna Go Home (The Wreck Of The John 'B')" (See http://www.45cat.com/record/7n15267) The Beach Boys just listed the composer as "Arr. Brian Wilson" http://www.45cat.com/record/5602

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Is I Wanna Go Home - by Lonnie Donegan the same song as Sloop John B by the Beach Boys?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Buddy Holly's True Love Ways, new at 29 was a gem of a single and should have done so much better .

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 8 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 28th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 28th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
    5 2 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 2 2 2 2 2 2 7482
    2 3 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 3 3 3 3 3 6 7134
    4 4 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 4 3 7 4 6 3 6796
    7 5 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 5 5 5 6 5 9 6550
    6 6 Shazam - Duane Eddy 6 6 4 5 7 8 6498
    3 7 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 7 8 8 7 4 7 6202
    10 8 Three Steps To Heaven - Eddie Cochran 8 7 6 8 9 11 5994
    9 9 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 9 10 9 9 8 4 5796
    8 10 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 10 11 11 10 10 5 5428
    21 11 Mama / Robot Man - Connie Francis 11 9 10 13 14 20 4884
    16 12 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 12= 12 13 11 16 12 4680
    13 13 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 12= 14 14 14 11 10 4656
    12 14 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 14 15 16 16 12 17 4120
    19 15 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 16 16 12 12 18 3452
    NEW 16 I Wanna Go Home - Lonnie Donegan 17= 17 15 20 18 28 3238
    11 17 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 15 13 13 13 2880
    NEW 18 The Urge - Freddy Cannon 19 19 18 16 27 2430
    27 19 That's You - Nat King Cole 17= 19 20 15 25 2408
    14 20 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 24 19 17 14 2226
    NEW 21 Lucky Five - Russ Conway 18 19 1760
    20 22 Sixteen Reasons - Connie Stevens 20 26 15 15 1680
    17 23 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 26 18 16 1344
    24 24 Let The Little Girl Dance - Billy Bland 21 19 1160
    18 25 Tease Me / Ooh La La ! - Keith Kelly 17 840
    29 26 Milord - Edith Piaf 22 720
    15 27 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 20 26 700
    26 28 Kookie Kookie (Lend Me Your Comb) - Ed Byrnes and Connie Stevens 19 600
    NEW 29 True Love Ways - Buddy Holly 25 480
    23 30 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 21 300
    Robot Man - Connie Francis 23
    Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 22 270
    That's Love - Billy Fury 28 240
    What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 23 240
    Clementine - Bobby Darin 24 210
    You'll Never Know What You're Missin' - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 29 160
    Got A Girl - The Four Preps 30 80
    Sweet Dreams - Dave Sampson 30 80
    This Love I Have For You - Lance Fortune 29 60
    You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 30 30

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    ''For the purposes of this database, we are following the most unanimously agreed lineage'' . ''Chart historians have long since agreed the NME published the pre-eminent singles chart from launch in November 1952 through to February 1960, when the Record Retailer took over as the chart of choice. ''

    Unanimous. What a lot of tosh ! What chart historians ? Will that be the guys who published The Guinness books by any chance.

    I could go on a rant but I am going to refrain

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    As far as the BBC were concerned, I presume the person who decided to switch over was POTP producer Phil Swern.

    5 years later the BBC invited tenders for a digitalised record library and Phil Swern won the contract because of his vast record collection, which included every chart hit since 1952. The BBC's own record library is far larger, but they couldn't be bothered to digitalise so now they play records from Phil Swern's private collection!
    I never ever knew that . Funnily enough I remember Dave Taylor going on a rant about Phil Swern a few times when he became producer of POTP.

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  • brian05
    replied
    From the OCC web site,

    The guardians of these charts are the Official Charts Company – while OfficialCharts.com is the website which celebrates more than 60 years of UK chart history, from 1952 right up to the present day.

    We are charged with this mission by the UK's entertainment industry - we are owned by two industry associations, the Entertainment Retailers Association (Era) and the British Phonographic Industry (BPI), which represent the nation's retailers and music labels respectively. In turn, we can only do our job with the support of our contracted market research partner, Kantar (formerly Millward Brown), who in February 2015 marked 21 years compiling the UK's charts on our behalf.

    It is important to outline which singles and albums charts we are defining as “official” for the purposes of this database. To start with, every one of our specialist genre and format charts (which cover the period from from 1994 to date) are 100% Official, extracted directly from the industry-standard Official Charts Online database which is managed by Kantar (formerly named Millward Brown).

    Even for the Official Singles and Albums Charts for the years since the late Sixties, there has been little dispute over this “lineage” – since BMRB was first commissioned by the BBC and Record Retailer in 1969, everyone has been in pretty much unanimous agreement.

    But before this period, matters are less straightforward. In the early years of the UK’s charts (the Fifties and Sixties), there were a number of parallel charts published by various different magazines: at certain points, music papers such as the New Musical Express, Melody Maker, Disc, Record Mirror and Record Retailer (later renamed Record & Tape Retailer and then Music Week) all published their own music rundowns.

    For the purposes of this database, we are following the most unanimously agreed lineage. Chart historians have long since agreed the NME published the pre-eminent singles chart from launch in November 1952 through to February 1960, when the Record Retailer took over as the chart of choice. As far as albums are concerned, the Record Mirror chart was the original (and most widely recognised) rundown, from July 1956 until March 1960, when the Record Retailer took over.

    From this point in early 1960, Record Retailer unified the albums and singles charts, remaining the source of choice through until early 1969 when BMRB took over the reins. In January 1983, Gallup became the UK’s Official chart compiler, before Millward Brown (now Kantar) in turn picked up the baton in February 1994. The only exception to this unbroken run of BMRB charts post-1969 was for the eight weeks comprising February and March 1971, when a postal strike meant that album chart publication by BMRB was sporadic at best. For this period our database reflects the charts published by Melody Maker – as is also agreed by many chart historians.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    As far as the BBC were concerned, I presume the person who decided to switch over was POTP producer Phil Swern.

    5 years later the BBC invited tenders for a digitalised record library and Phil Swern won the contract because of his vast record collection, which included every chart hit since 1952. The BBC's own record library is far larger, but they couldn't be bothered to digitalise so now they play records from Phil Swern's private collection!

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    As we know, the OCC appointed themselves as 'official', and even changed their name from the Chart Information Network "CIN" to reflect that, in 2001, as they were getting healthy competition from the Network "MRIB" chart. A very clever ploy, claim you are 'official' thus better / more legitimate than that other chart.

    Just as legitimate as any Fish n Chips shop or chain rebranding themselves as "The Official Fish n Chips Shoppe of the UK since 1952".

    Well, they say they're 'official' so they must be 'official', right? And if they say they are 'official', then we must believe they are 'official', right?

    It would be more accurate for the OCC to claim they are the 'official chart since Feb 1969'. And for the purposes of history, they are using NME for the 50s and RR for the 60s, though not 'official'. That is the truth.

    Rock on...
    Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Wed December 16, 2020, 16:28.

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