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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 7 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 30th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 30th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 1 2 2 1 1 1 7600
    6 2 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 2 1 1 2 5 4 7412
    4 3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 5 4 3 3 5 6944
    8 4 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 4 3 3 7 7 3 6872
    5 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 6 4 5 5 6 6 6708
    1 6 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 7 6 7 6 4 2 6610
    2 7 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 5 8 6 4 2 7 6536
    12 8 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 8 9 8 8 8 8 5854
    17 9 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 9 7 9 9 11 12 5646
    7 10 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 10 10 12 10 10 9 5328
    9 11 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 11 11 13 16 9 10 4980
    14 12 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 12 13 11 13 13 15 4704
    NEW 13 Shazam - Duane Eddy 13 12 10 11 18 21 4490
    10 14 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 14 16 14 12 12 17 4312
    15 15 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 15 17 19 15 14 11 3898
    11 16 Clementine - Bobby Darin 16 18 19 17 15 13 3632
    16 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 17= 20 16 19 19 14 3346
    22 18 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 19 21 18 14 18 2616
    13 19 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 17= 15 16 16 2480
    21 20 Tease Me / Ooh La La ! - Keith Kelly 25 17 20 1738
    27 21 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 14 23 1600
    19 22 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 22 20 20 1600
    18 23 Delaware - Perry Como 25 17 19 1540
    25 24 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 20 15 18 1454
    26 25 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 19 30 990
    30 26 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 23 26 790
    20 27 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 24 27 680
    24 28 Poor Me - Adam Faith 28 22 510
    28 29 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 29 24 370
    NEW 30 Standing On The Corner - The Four Lads 27 320
    Country Boy - Fats Domino 25 180
    Why - Anthony Newley 28 90
    Chattanooga Choo Choo - Ernie Fields 30 80
    On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 29 60



    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That would have been a smart me by MM . It would have been a first time a book of any charts would have been made available commercially and would have laid down a marker as you suggest.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    6 - Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers
    Cathy’s Clown is often cited as an inspiration for the Beatles. I imagine the slow Orbinsony version of Please Please Me that they demoed to George Martin on 4-Sep-62 had at least a passing resemblance to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by kjell View Post
    Melody Maker wasn’t reluctant to publish their charts when I visited them in the summer of 91.
    That is interesting. I suppose it was a matter of timing. If MM had put out a book in 1970 ('Charts of the Sixties' or suchlike) I think it would have sold well. Even if it didn't it might have put down a marker for their charts to be used in future.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Chart Commentary

    The #1 position is split with three records topping the five charts but Lonnie holds firm topping three of the five.

    Elvis stalls at #2 to be overtaken soon by both Anthony Newley and The Everly Brothers the latter taking a big jump into the top ten this week.

    In comes Ella Fitzgerald, the 'First Lady Of Song' , and The King Brothers getting the jump on The Four Lads, Johnny Preston, Craig Douglas, and an instantly forgettable record from Keith Kelly.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 23rd 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 23rd 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 3 1 1 2 1 7530
    2 2 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 3 1 3 7464
    5 3 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 4 1 4 4 4 2 7266
    3 4 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 4 3 2 3 7 7062
    4 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 5 5 5 5 5 4 6738
    18 6 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 6 6 6 6 7 14 6160
    7 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 8 9 9 9 8 5 5846
    15 8 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 7 7 7 7 10 15 5802
    6 9 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 9 10 11 10 6 9 5588
    9 10 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 10 12 12 8 9 12 5204
    11 11 Clementine - Bobby Darin 12 13 13 14 12 8 4806
    16 12 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 11 8 8 11 17 28 4770
    8 13 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 14 15 16 12 11 6 4652
    20 14 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 13 14 10 15 14 20 4408
    12 15 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 17 16 18 17 13 17 3832
    17 16 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 16 17 15 13 18 22 3684
    NEW 17 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 15 11 14 15 26 3570
    10 18 Delaware - Perry Como 18 17 20 16 16 2738
    19 19 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 27 19 20 10 2220
    13 20 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 20 20 18 11 1974
    NEW 21 Tease Me / Ooh ! La La - Keith Kelly 19 25 17 16 1890
    14 22 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 19 13 1500
    22 23 Country Boy - Fats Domino 22 19 25 1500
    23 24 Poor Me - Adam Faith 21 19 1160
    NEW 25 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 20 19 1116
    NEW 26 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 23 640
    NEW 27 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 23 640
    21 28 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 26 23 640
    RE 29 Why - Anthony Newley 30 18 470
    25 30 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 28 29 300
    On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 21 300
    Be Mine - Lance Fortune 24 210
    Standing On The Corner - The Four Lads 29 160
    A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 27 120
    Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Melody Maker wasn’t reluctant to publish their charts when I visited them in the summer of 91. They had no plans to publish them but wouldn’t mind if I did. I contacted NME who said some of their staff was working on publishing the NME singles charts. With Guinness already on the market and NME soon to publish theirs I didn’t expect publishing the MM charts to be economically viable.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Also, it occurred to me that Dave Taylor once told me that RM was a better compiled chart than NME and it was a pity that it folded. Whether that was his personal opinion or he got it from some other source he never said.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I forgot about Guy Mitchell and Bobby Darin. I really believe that by the time RM extended to a Top Twenty they had hit the ground running. Furthermore RM's chart, especially with #1 records, aligned better with MM and Disc more than NME did which went out a limb with the aforementioned records.

    Although I go with MM as the stronger chart from July 60 it doesn't mean it was always perfect either. Like ALL charts it defo had blips along the way. For example did they get it wrong as the only chart to go with The Beatles Penny Lane at #1 in '67, or did they alone get it right because of the larger sample, shops they sampled, or the additional Northern Ireland sample effect.

    But such are the mysteries that keep me hooked on record charts.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    I would go with RM from January 56 as NME had a handful of dodgy #1's in the late fifties that never topped any other chart, Kay Starr, Tommy Edwards, Vic Damone, Jane Morgan to name a few.
    You've persuaded me over!

    I used to prefer RM to NME in this period but was a bit disillusioned by their "settling in" difficulties you revealed in the other thread. But looking at it again NME did have 6 outlier number ones (the 4 you mention plus Guy Mitchell and Bobby Darin). Also, at least as damming is the fact that they omitted two strong 2 week + number ones that all the others had: Johnny Otis and Everly Brothers (Bird Dog).

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 9 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 16th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 16th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 1 1 2 1 1 7702
    4 2 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 1 2 6 7400
    2 3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 3 3 2 7254
    5 4 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 4 4 4 4 4 3 6996
    8 5 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 5 5 5 5 6 4 6688
    6 6 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 6 7 7 6 5 7 6330
    7 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 7 6 6 9 8 5 6266
    3 8 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 8 9 8 7 7 9 5912
    10 9 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 9 8 9 8 9 8 5824
    9 10 Delaware - Perry Como 10 13 11 10 10 13 5028
    15 11 Clementine - Bobby Darin 11 10 14 15 11 11 4908
    13 12 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 12= 12 13 16 12 14 4630
    11 13 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 12= 14 15 11 13 10 4610
    12 14 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 16 17 18 12 14 15 3952
    NEW 15 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 14 11 12 13 24 3634
    23 16 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 15 15 10 14 18 3576
    24 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 18 20 19 20 15 16 3268
    NEW 18 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 17 16 16 17 22 2902
    17 19 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 22 20 16 12 2700
    27 20 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 19 22 17 19 18 2666
    18 21 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 20 18 18 20 20 2414
    19 22 Country Boy - Fats Domino 19 19 19 1920
    14 23 Poor Me - Adam Faith 21 17 17 1920
    21 24 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 25 21 780
    26 25 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 24 560
    25 26 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 26 26 550
    16 27 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 29 23 400
    20 28 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 27 320
    RE 29 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 25 180
    NEW 30 Valentino - Connie Francis 27 120
    Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 28
    Colette - Billy Fury 28 90
    Why - Anthony Newley 30 80
    Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 29 60
    Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Interesting.

    I would go with RM from January 56 as NME had a handful of dodgy #1's in the late fifties that never topped any other chart, Kay Starr, Tommy Edwards, Vic Damone, Jane Morgan to name a few.

    Then MM from July 1960 when it upped its sample to 110, making it the biggest sample of all the papers and the MM invested heavily in its chart service from then. MM was also from then the only paper to include Northern Ireland in its sample.

    MM was also the chart carried by most daily newspapers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    My preference would have been the BBC chart; even with all the warts it is better than any individual music paper and represents what millions saw and heard as 'the' chart at the time.

    If reduced to choosing between music papers, I think NME then MM from April 62. If MM could have included the 31-50s that were calculated but not published all the better.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Just to summarize from my earlier post (# 74 on Alan Smith's UK Chart History thread "updated chart history"), 3 pre-Guinness chart books series used the following charts for their history before Feb 1969:

    --Rock File, 5 books beginning 1972:
    NME 1955-58
    RM 1958-62
    RR 1962-69

    --Tony Jasper, 9 books beginning 1976:
    NME none
    RM 1955-62
    RR 1962-69

    --Record Hits, 2 books beginning June 1977:
    NME 1954-55
    RM 1956-62
    RR 1962-69

    All 3 different (and different from Guinness/'official'), though all 3 have in common RM 1958-62 and RR 1962-69.

    I've read somewhere that NME wouldn't grant their chart rights to one or more books, as NME was planning to print their own chart books, which they eventually did beginning in 1992 (2 each of singles and albums). So it could have been that the above 3 books series wanted to use NME for more chart history, but NME wouldn't allow it. And/or MM.

    I'll throw these in for the newbie readers amongst us:

    --Guinness, 19 editions beginning Nov 1977 to 2006:
    NME 1952-1960
    RR 1960-1969

    --Official Charts, 50s/60s charts declared 'official' in/after 2001:
    same as Guinness

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    At least Tony Jasper made the right choice for the 1960-62 period when he could have gone with either RM or RR.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Note the typo error in both, BRMB instead of BMRB, ugh...
    BRMB was the name of the commercial radio station in Birmingham; they should have claimed their royalties!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    It was a real shame about Tony Jasper's book. It was the first book of it's kind back in 1976 to give a weekly listing of any chart to date but it missed a trick. I don't know if it had been rushed out, or just not checked carefully enough, but as you know by now it was riddled with errors.

    When dealing with thousands and thousands of numbers I know (from first hand experience) you need to take special care as it is easy to erroneously type in a wrong number and the odd typo could have been forgiven, but, unfortunately the book had so many errors it couldn't be completely trusted to be taken seriously as an accurate reference book. A pity as it was a great opportunity wasted.

    I was so frustrated with it that I actually took mine down to the newspaper library (at Colindale at that time) and went through every weekly RM chart correcting the book as I went along.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Chart Commentary

    Elvis comes storming in at #4 but will fail to capture #1 this time around.
    In too comes the first hit from 'Little Miss Dynamite' Brenda Lee to kick off her chart career.

    Again though there are some massive differences in RR chart positions vs the other four.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 9th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 9th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
    3 2 Fall In Love With You - Cliff Richard 2 2 2 2 2 3 7452
    2 3 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 3 6 4 3 3 4 6894
    NEW 4 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 5 3 5 4 6 10 6706
    10 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 4 4 3 5 5 12 6698
    4 6 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 6 7 6 6 4 6 6470
    6 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 7 5 8 9 8 7 6166
    12 8 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 9= 8 7 10 12 2 5898
    5 9 Delaware - Perry Como 9= 13 10 7 7 5 5592
    11 10 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 8 9 9 8 9 14 5564
    9 11 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 12 10 14 12 11 8 5112
    7 12 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 11 11 11 11 13 11 5060
    16 13 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 13 12 12 13 16 9 4754
    8 14 Poor Me - Adam Faith 15 15 15 14 10 15 4416
    20 15 Clementine - Bobby Darin 14 14 13 15 18 17 4118
    13 16 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 17= 20 20 19 14 18 3236
    17 17 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 16 27 16 17 15 13 3092
    23 18 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 17= 26 17 16 19 21 2710
    25 19 Country Boy - Fats Domino 19 16 18 20 25 2578
    18 20 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 22 19 19 1800
    19 21 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 19 20 24 1720
    14 22 Why - Anthony Newley 25 18 16 1424
    NEW 23 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 24 20 1220
    22 24 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 20 17 1120
    15 25 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 29 17 28 950
    27 26 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 21 800
    28 27 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 23 640
    24 28 Colette - Billy Fury 28 20 570
    26 29 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 22 270
    RE 30 Royal Event - Russ Conway 23 240
    Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 18
    Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 26 150
    My Heart - Gene Vincent 30 29 140
    Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 27 120
    Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 30 30

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Interesting. The 1955-1982 Jasper book copyright is:

    Copyright (c) 1976,1978,1979 and 1983 Top Twenty
    Music and Video Week/BRMB
    Supporting text, additional material and layout
    copyright (c) 1976, 1978, 1979 and 1983 Tony Jasper.

    While the 1955-1993 Jasper book is:

    Copyright (c) 1994 (Top Twenty) Music Week/BRMB/Gallup/CNI.
    Supporting text, additional material and layout
    copyright (c) 1976, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1991
    and 1994 Tony Jasper

    Note the typo error in both, BRMB instead of BMRB, ugh...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    the Tony Jasper Top 20 Charts book which I bought back in 1976.
    I notice that the charts in it are copyright Billboard Ltd./BMRB. I wonder if this means that Billboard Ltd. inherited the rights to the Record Mirror back catalogue.

    (It would have shown uncharacteristic fleet of foot for RR to put anything straight in at number one!)

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    lol, at Lonnie and Robbie's comments Not to worry Lonnie at least has more hits in the bag to come to compensate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Nope just NME and RM Robbie, the two big charts at the time in respect of store returns, although NME would lose their crown to MM in July pushing RM to third.
    I've just realised I got it wrong and was thinking of the RM charts and the Tony Jasper Top 20 Charts book which I bought back in 1976. All these different charts confuse me! Not that it takes much to confuse me these days...

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Nope just NME and RM Robbie, the two big charts at the time in respect of store returns, although NME would lose their crown to MM in July pushing RM to third.
    And I was very upset with that as it would be his only entry at the top. Ah well...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Chart Commentary

    All charts agree on #1 this week. Lonnie Donegan reigns supreme but it will be his last #1.
    The charts though are divided though immediately below that position with 3 records competing for the #2 and #3 positions.

    Of the new entries this week Neil Sedaka and Steve Lawrence are heading for the Top Ten, but this time Bobby Darin will fall short.
    Jim Reeves will be around for weeks and weeks and weeks without reaching the Top Ten.

    Leave a comment:

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