The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Amen Corner wiped the floor with American Breed's version of Bend Me Shape Me. Superb !

There are 11 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 27th 1968

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 27th 1968								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
6	1	Everlasting Love - The Love Affair					1	1	1	2	15965
1	2	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame					2	2	2	1	15600
7	3	Am I That Easy To Forget - Engelbert Humperdinck					3	3	3	3	14980
4	4	Daydream Believer - The Monkees					4	4	5	6	14025
2	5	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops					6	5	4	7	13990
14	6	Judy In Disguise - John Fred and His Playboy Band					5	6	6	4	13545
3	7	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles					7	8	7	5	12810
5	8	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles					8	7	7	8	12755
12	9	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces					9	10	10	9	11320
17	10	Everything I Am - The Plastic Penny					10	9	11	10	11185
8	11	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones					11	12	9	16	10575
24	12	She Wears My Ring - Solomon King					12	13	15	13	9130
9	13	World - The Bee Gees					13	16	13	12	9115
NEW	14	I Can Take Or Leave Your Loving - Herman's Hermits					14	14	17	17	8090
10	15	Thank U Very Much - The Scaffold					16	17	14	19	8070
NEW	16	Suddenly You Love Me - The Tremeloes					15	14	21	14	7345
11	17	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound					19	23	12	20	7285
19	18	Paradise Lost - The Herd					18	19	18	15	7010
13	19	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican					20	21	16	18	6855
30	20	The Mighty Quinn - Manfred Mann					21	11	22	26	6675
NEW	21	Bend Me Shape Me - Amen Corner					17	17	23	11	6500
26	22	Darlin' - The Beach Boys					22	22	20	25	5060
16	23	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic					23	26	19	23	4680
28	24	Gimme Little Sign - Brenton Wood					24	20	29	21	3550
25	25	Nights In White Satin - The Moody Blues					25	24	25	24	3495
18	26	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes					27	25	24	29	3120
15	27	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney					26	27	28	22	2315
21	28	The Other Man's Grass - Petula Clark					28	28	26	27	2190
20	29	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor					29		27	28	1255
NEW	30	Anniversary Waltz - Anita Harris					30	29			400
		All My Love - Cliff Richard							30	30	335
		The Best Part Of Breaking Up - The Symbols						30			200

[MrTibbs]

lmao @ Dumpertruck

[Splodj]

There was another interview with Dick James in Disc and Music Echo when 'All You Need Is Love' was released, where he goes into the arrangements he made to get it pressed quickly and makes a fairly accurate estimate of its total sales.

On the subject of sales figures for 1967 I share the scepticism about accuracy, but tend to believe the relative sales declared by individual record companies. So for example when EMI say that 'All You Need Is Love' sold more than 'Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever' I see no reason to think they are lying.

Incidentally DandME did a points chart for 1967 where the 3 Dumpertruck singles also formed the top 3, albeit with 'The Last Waltz' on top.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

There are 12 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 20th 1968

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 20th 1968								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
5	1	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame					1	1	1	2	15965
4	2	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops					2	2	3	5	15010
2	3	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles					4	6	2	4	14545
3	4	Daydream Believer - The Monkees					5	3	4	6	14475
1	5	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles					3	4	5	1	14450
18	6	Everlasting Love - The Love Affair					6	5	6	3	13830
22	7	Am I That Easy To Forget - Engelbert Humperdinck					7	7	7	8	12755
7	8	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones					8	8	8	7	12390
8	9	World - The Bee Gees					9	9	9	11	11600
6	10	Thank U Very Much - The Scaffold					10	10	10	10	11235
9	11	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound					11	11	12	12	10365
15	12	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces					13	12	11	14	10245
11	13	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican					12	14	13	9	9770
24	14	Judy In Disguise - John Fred and His Playboy Band					14	13	14	13	9380
10	15	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney					15	17	16	15	7910
13	16	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic					16	18	15	16	7875
26	17	Everything I Am - The Plastic Penny					18	15	18	22	7215
14	18	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes					19	19	17	19	6920
20	19	Paradise Lost - The Herd					17	16	21	20	6435
12	20	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor					20	20	19	17	6390
19	21	The Other Man's Grass - Petula Clark					21	24	20	21	5000
16	22	Let The Heartaches Begin - Long John Baldry					22	23	23	23	4280
17	23	All My Love - Cliff Richard					24	29	22	25	3160
30	24	She Wears My Ring - Solomon King					23	26	27	18	3105
NEW	25	Nights In White Satin - The Moody Blues					25	25	25	27	3040
NEW	26	Darlin' - The Beach Boys					27	21	28		2750
25	27	Jackie - Scott Walker					26		24	24	2345
29	28	Gimme Little Sign - Brenton Wood					28	22		30	1885
21	29	The Last Waltz - Engelbert Humperdinck					29		26	26	1675
NEW	30	The Mighty Quinn - Manfred Mann					30	27			800
		Suddenly You Love Me - The Tremeloes						28			600
		Everybody Knows - The Dave Clark Five							30	28	505
		I Can Take Or Leave Your Loving - Herman's Hermits							29		500
		Mr. Second Class - The Spencer Davis Group						30			200
		The Best Part Of Breaking Up - The Symbols								29	170

[MrTibbs]

Thanks for that Brian it confirms that by 13th January MMT was indeed already a big seller with more sales to come so perhaps its inclusion in the Top Ten singles of 1967 was justified after all.

[brian05]

So the MMT EP made no. 1 in the Melody Maker (and DISC) chart. Here's a scan from DISC dated 13th January 1968, with some sales figures.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah, agree Robbie, some cracking toons on this chart, John Fred, Simon Dupree, Monkees, Four Tops, Georgie Fame, Both Beatles, Long John Baldry, Scaffold (Thank U Very Much for 'luv'), Scott Walker, Plastic Penny, all my pocket money went on those back in the day.

[Robbie]

'Judy In Disguise' - a great song. I also love the version by Silicon Teens which was released in January 1980. I also love the kitsch sound of 'Kites' by Simon Dupree. It doesn't matter how many times I hear the song, I never get fed up of hearing it.

My mum used to own a compilation album which contained 'She Wears My Ring' by Solomon King. I remember being surprised when I found out it was a hit in 1968 as it sounds a decade out of date.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

There are 8 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 13th 1968

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 13th 1968								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles					1	1	3	1	15550
2	2	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles					2	4	1	2	15365
6	3	Daydream Believer - The Monkees					3	2	2	5	15260
8	4	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops					4	3	4	3	14730
13	5	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame					5	5	5	4	13995
5	6	Thank U Very Much - The Scaffold					6	7	6	6	13175
4	7	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones					7	6	7	7	13040
9	8	World - The Bee Gees					8	8	8	12	11965
11	9	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound					9	9	10	9	11520
7	10	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney					11	11	9	11	11200
3	11	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican					10	10	11	8	11155
10	12	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor					13	12	12	13	10080
14	13	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic					12	13	13	10	9885
18	14	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes					14	14	14	14	9095
20	15	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces					15	15	17	16	7975
12	16	Let The Heartaches Begin - Long John Baldry					16	18	15	18	7705
16	17	All My Love - Cliff Richard					17	19	16	17	7340
NEW	18	Everlasting Love - The Love Affair					18	20	18	15	6810
19	19	The Other's Man's Grass - Petula Clark					19	17	21	20	6235
28	20	Paradise Lost - The Herd					20	21	22	21	5100
17	21	The Last Waltz - Engelbert Humperdinck					21	26	20	19	4770
NEW	22	Am I That Easy To Forget - Engelbert Humperdinck					23	16	24		4750
15	23	Everybody Knows - The Dave Clark Five					22	27	19	22	4565
NEW	24	Judy In Disguise - John Fred and His Playboy Band					24	22	26	23	3730
22	25	Jackie - Scott Walker					25	27	23	24	3395
NEW	26	Everything I Am - The Plastic Penny					26	24	27	27	2740
26	27	Susannah's Still Alive - Dave Davies					27	22		26	2225
23	28	Big Spender - Shirley Bassey					30		25		1500
NEW	29	Gimme Little Sign - Brenton Wood					29	25			1200
NEW	30	She Wears My Ring - Solomon King					28		30	25	760
		Nights In White Satin - The Moody Blues							28		750
		I Only Live To Love You - Cilla Black							29	29	670
		Chain Of Fools - Aretha Franklin						29			400
		I Second That Emotion - Smokey Robinson and The Miracles								28	255
		Love Is All Around - The Troggs						30			200
		I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor								30	85

[Splodj]

Magical Mystery Tour moves in mysterious ways in the MM charts. After climbing more slowly, it is about to take a leap ...

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here we go ! Onward and Upward into 1968

There are 18 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 6th 1968

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 6th 1968								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	16050
2	2	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles					2	2	4	2	15015
3	3	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican					4	3	2	8	14805
4	4	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones					3	4	3	3	14780
9	5	Thank U Very Much - The Scaffold					6	7	5	4	13595
6	6	Daydream Believer - The Monkees					6	5	6	6	13575
8	7	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney					8	8	7	7	12640
7	8	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops					7	6	11	5	12210
11	9	World - The Bee Gees					9	9	10	12	11265
5	10	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor					11	10	9	14	11145
13	11	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound					10	11	12	9	10620
10	12	Let The Heartaches Begin - Long John Baldry					13	14	8	15	10510
12	13	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame					12	12	14	10	9835
15	14	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic					14	13	16	11	9050
14	15	Everybody Knows - The Dave Clark Five					15	16	13	17	8690
16	16	All My Love - Cliff Richard					18	15	17	18	7805
18	17	The Last Waltz - Engelbert Humperdinck					19	19	15	16	7675
17	18	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes					16	17	18	13	7580
21	19	The Other Man's Grass - Petula Clark					17	18	20	21	6200
19	20	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces					20	22	19	19	5820
22	21	Love Is All Around - The Troggs					23	23	22	26	4275
20	22	Jackie - Scott Walker					21	21	26	22	4015
25	23	Big Spender - Shirley Bassey					24	27	21	24	3895
23	24	There Must Be A Way - Frankie Vaughan					26	24	24	30	3235
24	25	I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor					25	25	25	25	3210
26	26	Susannah's Still Alive - Dave Davies					22	20		20	3135
28	27	So Tired - Frankie Vaughan					27		23	27	2340
NEW	28	Paradise Lost - The Herd					28		28	23	1430
RE	29	Soul Man - Sam and Dave					29		27	28	1255
27	30	Baby Now That I've Found You - The Foundations					30	26			1000
		Zabadak - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich						28	30		850
		I Only Live To Love You - Cilla Black							29	29	670
		There Is A Mountain - Donovan						29			400
		Chain Of Fools - Aretha Franklin						30			200

[MrTibbs]

Before I continue into 1968 here is my usual end of year list of non charting injustices, the records which were criminally ignored in 1967 and should (in my humble opinion) have charted here in the UK.

Buckinghams - Kind Of A Drag
Doors - Light My Fire
Ed Ames - My Cup Runneth Over
Lulu - Best Of Both Worlds and To Sir With Love (should have been singles here too)
P.P. Arnold - The Time Has Come (how the he** did this manage to miss out)
Peter Paul and Mary - I Dig Rock And Roll Music
Spanky and Our Gang - Sunday Will Never Be The Same
Union Gap - Woman Woman

Ah well ! 1968 next.

Brian.

[kingofskiffle]

It's not a worthy thing - it allows us to amend posts and post reasons why. Comments sort of can get out of hand if you want to comment on the comment I'm making on a post (You can see the coding issues this could cause). I think there was a post about it in the Front Desk but can't recall....

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

MM did not compile a chart for this week and neither did the BBC, so the chart this week is based on NME and RR.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 30th 1967.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 30th 1967								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles						1		1	8550
7	2	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles						2		2	8265
2	3	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican						3		4	7895
4	4	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones						4		3	7780
6	5	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor						5		11	6900
12	6	Daydream Believer - The Monkees						7		7	6840
16	7	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops						6		10	6785
5	8	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney						9		5	6610
10	9	Thank U Very Much - The Scaffold						8		9	6470
3	10	Let The Heartaches Begin - Long John Baldry						12		8	5755
9	11	World - The Bee Gees						11		15	5360
23	12	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame						10		18	5305
11	13	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound						13		14	5045
8	14	Everybody Knows - The Dave Clark Five						14		16	4675
14	15	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic						16		12	4615
13	16	All My Love - Cliff Richard						19		6	4525
17	17	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes						15		17	4390
15	18	The Last Waltz - Engelbert Humperdinck						17		13	4330
19	19	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces						20		19	3220
24	20	Jackie - Scott Walker						18		28	2855
NEW	21	The Other Man's Grass - Petula Clark						22		24	2395
18	22	Love Is All Around - The Troggs						21		27	2340
22	23	There Must Be A Way - Frankie Vaughan						24		20	2335
20	24	I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor						25		21	2050
26	25	Big Spender - Shirley Bassey						26		22	1765
29	26	Susannah's Still Alive - Dave Davies						23		30	1685
21	27	Baby Now That I've Found You - The Foundations						27		25	1310
25	28	So Tired - Frankie Vaughan								23	680
27	29	Zabadak - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich						28			600
NEW	30	La Derniere Valse - Mireille Mathieu								26	425
		Neither MM or The BBC compiled a chart for 30th December. So The Ultimate Averaged Chart was compiled from NME and RR.									0
		There Is A Mountain - Donovan						29			400
		Autumn Almanac - The Kinks						30			200
		I Only Live To Love You - Cilla Black								29	170

[MrTibbs]

I find The Top Ten Of Music really useful and lots of its bestseller lists credible, however, some of its lists do seem to incorporate sales in the top ten split between the two years, and others don't. A few records listed in the top ten in a few lists do raise my eyebrows as well, as do some of the omissions.

I honestly believe that ANY list of bestselling singles of the fifties, sixties and early seventies is highly suspect as accurate sales data is notably sketchy at best for many records.

[Splodj]

What is the rationale behind only moderators being allowed to comment? Are their comments deemed to be more worthy, or are they supposed to confine their comments strictly to matters of moderation?

[brian05]

Wayne from HelpDesk said,
I turned this feature off a few weeks ago - only moderation team members should be able to "Comment" now.

Graham76man - I did not know you were a moderator!! Congratulations.

[Splodj]

Yes I think the 'Top Ten of Music (1993)' is based on the total sales of records released in 1967, whereas my list is sales within 1967. They are compatible with each other, just that the former has Hello Goodbye and Magical Mystery Tour appearing - caused by the significant sales of both after December 1967.

[Graham76man]

Don't know why? I don't think it's a paid member thing. Could be your browser. If it's not a paid member thing, or you are a paid member, post on the help thread saying you can't comment.
I had the EP clocking up sales of 379K, but there was a sales reduction the week before Christmas overall. Could have been a weather issue affecting sales, or something else.
Point based best seller lists have the problem of single sales overall sales. The points for a number one remain the same. The sales of records do not stay the same. You can sell 600K one week then next week 100K.
Incidentally Hello, Goodbye I believe suffered from poor distribution. EMI couldn't get over 300K to the shops after the second week at the top. They were only managing three quarters of it.

[brian05]

Singles were 6 shillings and 8 old pence (£0.33) while the EP was 19 shilling and 6 old pence (£0.98). The EP was that price because it included a 32 page book and 4 pages of lyrics. A normal EP was 10 shillings and 6 old pence (£0.53).

The imported MMT LP was 47 shillings and 6 old pence (£2.38).

[brian05]

To Graham76man, how come you can comment but I can't? That facility is turned off for me.

It depends when the top selling lists end - a cut-off date of 31st December or whether sales are included for the following year as well. It then becomes a list of the best-selling records issued in a given year. That could explain the difference in these lists. Some of course were points based.

As for MMT EP - By the date of release, it had advance orders of 400,000 and 600,000 had been shipped by mid-January 1968. [see The Long And Winding Road book]. [The Rock Lists Album] top 100 of the sixties had the EP at number 50. So final sales could be around 750,000 by 1993.

[Robbie]

A question to anyone who was buying singles at the time: how much more expensive would the price of 'Magical Mystery Tour' EP have been compared to the price of a standard single?

It's also interesting to see how much better the EP is performing on the Record Retailer chart when compared to the other two charts.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

There are a massive16 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 23rd 1967.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 23rd 1967								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Hello Goodbye - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	16050
4	2	If The Whole World Stopped Lovin' - Val Doonican					2	2	2	4	15345
2	3	Let The Heartaches Begin - Long John Baldry					4	3	4	6	14475
7	4	I'm Coming Home - Tom Jones					3	5	5	2	14165
5	5	Something's Gotten Hold Of My Heart - Gene Pitney					5	4	6	5	13860
6	6	Careless Hands - Des O'Connor					6	6	3	11	13700
15	7	Magical Mystery Tour (EP) - The Beatles					7	8	10	3	12230
3	8	Everybody Knows - The Dave Clark Five					9	7	8	13	12080
8	9	World - The Bee Gees					10	9	7	14	11845
10	10	Thank U Very Much - Scaffold					8	10	9	9	11570
14	11	Kites - Simon Dupree and The Big Sound					13	11	11	15	10360
11	12	Daydream Believer - The Monkees					11	13	12	8	10305
9	13	All My Love - Cliff Richard					12	12	15	7	9840
13	14	Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush - Traffic					14	16	13	10	9285
12	15	The Last Waltz - Engelbert Humperdinck					15	17	14	12	8665
22	16	Walk Away Renee - The Four Tops					16	14	16	16	8425
19	17	In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross and The Supremes					17	15	17	17	7890
16	18	Love Is All Around - The Troggs					20	20	18	25	5960
25	19	Tin Soldier - The Small Faces					18	22	20	18	5655
18	20	I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor					19	23	19	19	5620
17	21	Baby Now That I've Found You - The Foundations					21	21	23	23	4680
20	22	There Must be A Way - Frankie Vaughan					22	25	22	20	4385
30	23	The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde - Georgie Fame					23	18	29	22	3865
28	24	Jackie - Scott Walker					25	19	27	29	3570
24	25	So Tired - Frankie Vaughan					24		21	21	3350
26	26	Big Spender - Shirley Bassey					26	27	24	24	3145
21	27	Zabadak - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					27	24	28		2150
23	28	There Is A Mountain - Donovan					29	29	25		1900
29	29	Susannah's Still Alive - Dave Davies					28	26		27	1340
RE	30	Soul Man - Sam and Dave							26		1250
		The Other Man's Grass - Petula Clark					30	28		28	855
		Autumn Almanac - The Kinks						30	30		450
		I Only Live To Love You - Cilla Black								26	425
		La Derniere Valse - Mireille Mathieu								30	85

[Graham76man]

Made up sales charts by the Record Industry should never be trusted. So in the words of Shrek "You thought wrong".

[Graham76man]

Since there were no charts at the time actually counting record sales this was either made up from points, or based on shipping figures. Including sales from 1968. It's highly unlikely the EP would have sold enough to make the top ten of the year in about 3 weeks! It wasn't even number one (officially).
It doesn't even make the top 100 of the year on the same chart.
You can see the full charts from 1967 and the best sellers over over 220 that sold 250K from Thursday night on my blog.

And there seem to be competing lists of even "official figures" as Splodj list is not the same.
However even my list is also based on sales inside the top 100 charts and takes no account of the sales outside them. Which were as high as 6K at times.

Based on Brian's 535 shops if they all sold 30 copies each of the number one that would by 16,050 sold. So 6,000 divided by 8,000 shops is actually zero copies sold by any shops. Well it's 0.75 of a copy, but I don't believe anyone bought three quarters of a record. But I could be wrong!!