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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Or it could be low dealers returns this week given the holiday? We have seen instances in BMRB when they don’t have them all back in time and stated that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The charts are all over the place this week. The BBC chart is a mess with joint records all over the top 20 and an error in there too. This chart covers the post Easter 1958 week. The last set of charts were very quiet and these ones aren't so could it be that there were problems with some dealer returns getting in on time "last week" and these returns have been included "this week" thus affecting this weeks charts?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Some big disagreements this week in the top ten, the first for ages, and by as much as 5 positions on a couple of occasions.

    Out of the fairly newly inaugurated BBC Top Twenty 8 records tie this week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 19th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 19th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Magic Moments / Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 1= 1 2 1 2 5615
    2 2 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 1= 2 1 2 1 5595
    4 3 Maybe Baby - The Crickets 3 4 3 5 4 5115
    3 4 Nairobi - Tommy Steele 4 5 4 3 5 5045
    7 5 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 5 3 5 4 8 4930
    10 6 A Wonderful Time Up There / It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 6 7 8 6 3 4815
    9 7 Tequila - The Champs 7 6 9 7 7 4575
    6 8 La Dee Dah - Jackie Dennis 8= 8 7 8 9 4335
    5 9 Don't / I Beg Of You - Elvis Presley 8= 11 6 9 6 4305
    14 10 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 10 9 13 11 10 3940
    20 11 Breathless - Jerry Lee Lewis 11 12 12 16 11 3510
    11 12 Good Golly Miss Molly - Little Richard 13 19 16 12 13 2995
    21 13 Oh-Oh I'm Falling In Love Again - Jimmie Rodgers 15= 18 19 13 15 2825
    13 14 Mandy - Eddie Calvert 15= 13 14 19 19 2795
    18 15 April Love - Pat Boone 14 16 11 14 2495
    8 16 The Story Of My Life - Michael Holliday 12 15 10 10 2405
    29 17 Grand Coolie Dam / Nobody Loves Like An Irishman - Lonnie Donegan 17= 22 20 12 2000
    12 18 Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley 17= 20 17 15 1705
    15 19 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan 17 20 1570
    22 20 To Be Loved - Jackie Wilson 29 20 17 1410
    17 21 At The Hop - Danny and The Juniors 21 17 1210
    16 22 The Big Beat - Fats Domino 24 18 975
    NEW 23 Happy Guitar / Princess - Tommy Steele 20 16 900
    NEW 24 Sweet Little Sixteen - Chuck Berry 17 840
    NEW 25 Lollipop - The Chordettes 23 520
    26 26 Chicago / All The Way - Frank Sinatra 19 15 400
    24 27 Why Don't They Understand - George Hamilton IV 25 390
    25 28 You Are My Destiny - Paul Anka 26 325
    19 29 Baby Lover - Petula Clark 18 325
    27 30 Sugartime - Alma Cogan 27 260
    28 Tequila - Ted Heath 28 195
    I May Never Pass This Way Again - Ronnie Hilton 30 65
    Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 14 14
    It's Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 10
    23 Can't Get Along Without You / We Are Not Alone - Frankie Vaughan
    * Just a month in place and the BBC chart, or Dave/Trevor's chart sheet, is wrong. It lists Lonnie Donegan at #14 when he should be #17=.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalweb View Post

    No - the actual title on the record is 'It's Too Soon To Know'
    You are right Metal I need to amend that ta.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Another problem with the BBC chart is there was no consistent system governing when they did or did not tiebreak.

    If the BBC chart HAD been printed somewhere (Radio Times?) that might have made them take more care in compiling it.
    Agree. They needed a tie break system that was consistent throughout. This kept changing depending on the chart compiler.
    Despite TOTP and POTP I honestly don't think the BBC actually saw their own chart as being of any importance. As Dave Taylor once told me the BBC only did an averaged chart because they didn't want to be seen at the time as favouring any one music paper so stayed impartial by considering all and averaging. So they never really identified with their own chart as a chart in its own right, merely to be seen as being impartial.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    10 Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone

    Is that the same song as the Roy Orbison song with the same title?
    No - the actual title on the record is 'It's Too Soon To Know'

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    10 Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone

    Is that the same song as the Roy Orbison song with the same title?

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Another problem with the BBC chart is there was no consistent system governing when they did or did not tiebreak.

    If the BBC chart HAD been printed somewhere (Radio Times?) that might have made them take more care in compiling it.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    I wonder how much the BBC chart moving to a top 20 helped to smooth out the differences between the charts. Does anyone know how influential the BBC chart was in 1958?
    The BBC chart certainly helped smooth out inconsistencies Robbie. The theory behind it was sound, by averaging, outliers and minor errors in any individual chart were ironed out by finding the middle ground.
    It was the methodology that was too simplistic, it relied on all four charts being equal which they weren't as some sampled more stores than others. Also as we have seen the compilation was poor as it was riddled with errors due to poor quality control.

    In the 1950's and early sixties it was seen I think as a novelty chart but started to gain importance certainly by the time TOTP started. Between that and POTP it was probably the chart that most teenagers heard on a weekly basis so referred to.

    It's main problem though was that it was never available to the masses as it was never published anywhere just referred to by the BBC themselves.

    That is why I thought it was due time to correct that, with improving on compilation accuracy and factoring in proportionate store returns so in reality the UAC is an improved BBC chart, the way it should have been compiled.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 12th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 12th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Magic Moments / Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    3 2 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 2 2 2 2 2 5510
    4 3 Nairobi - Tommy Steele 3 3 4 3 5 5175
    5 4 Maybe Baby - The Crickets 4 5 3 6 4 5010
    2 5 Don't / I Beg Of You - Elvis Presley 5 7 6 4 3 4945
    7 6 La Dee Dah - Jackie Dennis 7 4 7 7 6 4815
    9 7 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 6 6 5 5 7 4755
    6 8 The Story Of My Life - Michael Holliday 8 8 8 8 11 4190
    14 9 Tequila - The Champs 9 9 9 9 9 4180
    13 10 Too Soon To Know / A Wonderful Time Up There - Pat Boone 10 13 10 11 8 3875
    11 11 Good Golly Miss Molly - Little Richard 11 11 12 12 10 3795
    10 12 Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley 12 14 13 14 12 3375
    12 13 Mandy - Eddie Calvert 13 15 15 10 14 3300
    26 14 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 14 10 14 13 2870
    19 15 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan 16 17 16 15 17 2765
    20 16 The Big Beat - Fats Domino 17 20 19 18 16 2435
    8 17 At The Hop - Danny and The The Juniors 15 18 11 13 2065
    17 18 April Love - Pat Boone 18 21 17 15 1960
    16 19 Baby Lover - Petula Clark 19= 23 16 19 1840
    NEW 20 Breathless - Jerry Lee Lewis 22 20 20 1685
    18 21 Oh-Oh I'm Falling In Love Again - Jimmie Rodgers 19= 19 17 1340
    21 22 To Be Loved - Jackie Wilson 27 17 1100
    22 23 Can't Get Along Without You / We Are Not Alone - Frankie Vaughan 26 19 805
    29 24 Why Don't They Understand - George Hamilton IV 24 20 730
    15 25 You Are My Destiny - Paul Anka 25 390
    24 26 Chicago / All The Way - Frank Sinatra 18 325
    25 27 Sugartime - Alma Cogan 28 195
    NEW 28 Tequila - Ted Heath 29 130
    NEW 29 Grand Coolie Dam - Lonnie Donegan 30 65
    Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 12
    A Wonderful Time Up There - Pat Boone 16
    23 Oh Boy - The Crickets
    27 The Clouds Will Soon Roll By - Tony Brent
    28 Love Me Forever - Marion Ryan
    30 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Mo Kauffman

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Yeah, I thought it might be due to split sides - but it can't be if the other side is not in their 30.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I also think a lot of the consistency was also due in part to the chart being slower moving at this time with the same records holding the upper chart positions for longer.
    This consistency however will change soon though as you will see and the inconsistent chart strangely will be NME with the largest store sample size. In the months to come NME will place singles at #1 that do not place at the top on the other three charts, they remain consistent and in total agreement with the #1 single which will differ from NME. This is strange that the NME goes out on a limb and I'd love to know why.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The request shows also had big audiences because they were 100 per cent needletime, without the new releases that still accounted for half POTP and therefore many more than were of Top 20 calibre.

    The other factor that may be coming into play here is newspapers and their much wider audiences than the music papers. I believe that by now NME and RM in particular were managing to sell their charts to the press.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    It would have been one of the few programmes playing the records…

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I wonder how much the BBC chart moving to a top 20 helped to smooth out the differences between the charts. Does anyone know how influential the BBC chart was in 1958?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Given the samples size, I would have expected MM to be the most out of sync of the lot. It could be though that the shops they had where actually quite representative by either luck or design. I would also hazard that marketing played a part in the similar top Ten’s - pressing plants can only make os many records, so would have focused on what they thought would sell, and would have been switched to what was selling - thus if the song is in the shop it can be bought vs not in the shop and can’t. Sometimes I’d buy a record I hand;t thought of buying simply because the one I wanted was not in stock… Could be the same thing here

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    We are in the middle of a period of about 6 months where there was remarkable agreement between the charts. The number ones from 'Great balls of fire' to 'Whos sorry now' are the same, and the changeover dates never vary by more than a week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 5th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 5th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Magic Moments / Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    2 2 Don't / I Beg Of You - Elvis Presley 2 4 2 2 2 5380
    6 3 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 3= 2 3 6 3 5265
    4 4 Nairobi - Tommy Steele 3= 3 4 3 4 5235
    8 5 Maybe Baby - The Crickets 5 5 5 5 5 4940
    3 6 The Story Of My Life - Michael Holliday 6 6 7 4 7 4745
    9 7 La Dee Dah - Jackie Dennis 7 7 6 9 6 4565
    7 8 At The Hop - Danny and The Juniors 8 8 9 7 11 4205
    17 9 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 9 10 8 14 9 3940
    5 10 Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley 10= 13 11 8 10 3850
    11 11 Good Golly Miss Molly - Little Richard 10= 14 10 10 8 3850
    15 12 Mandy - Eddie Calvert 12 9 14 12 16 3515
    NEW 13 A Wonderful Time Up There / Too Soon To Know - Pat Boone 17 16 19 18 12 2935
    NEW 14 Tequila - The Champs 13 10 13 13 2895
    10 15 You Are My Destiny - Paul Anka 15 18 18 11 20 2630
    16 16 Baby Lover - Petula Clark 16 15 16 17 2480
    12 17 April Love - Pat Boone 14 19 12 14 2275
    27 18 Oh-Oh I'm Falling In Love Again - Jimmie Rodgers 19 20 17 18 2055
    26 19 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan 18 17 15 19 1790
    21 20 The Big Beat - Fats Domino 20 25 20 15 1625
    25 21 To Be Loved - Jackie Wilson 24 19 1175
    18 22 Can't Get Along Without You - We Are Not Alone - Frankie Vaughan 23 20 960
    14 23 Oh Boy - The Crickets 30 15 705
    13 24 Chicago / All The Way - Frank Sinatra 26 16 700
    22 25 Sugartime - Alma Cogan 21 650
    NEW 26 Who's Sorry Now - Connie Francis 22 585
    RE 27 The Clouds Will Soon Roll By - Tony Brent 17 350
    19 28 Love Me Forever - Marion Ryan 27 260
    23 29 Why Don't They Understand - George Hamilton IV 28 195
    24 30 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Mo Kauffman 29 130
    Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 12 13
    20 Peggy Sue - Buddy Holly
    28 Witchcraft - Frank Sinatra
    29 In Love - Michael Holliday

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 29th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 29th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Magic Moments / Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 1 1 1 1 1 5700
    3 2 Don't / I Beg Of You- Elvis Presley 2 2 2 2 2 5510
    2 3 The Story Of My Life - Michael Holliday 3= 3 4 3 4 5235
    5 4 Nairobi - Tommy Steele 3= 4 3 4 3 5215
    4 5 Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley 5 6 7 5 6 4765
    10 6 Whole Lotta Woman - Marvin Rainwater 6= 5 9 8 5 4720
    6 7 At The Hop - Danny and The Juniors 6= 7 5 6 9 4530
    11 8 Maybe Baby - The Crickets 8 9 10 7 7 4355
    21 9 La Dee Dah - Jackie Dennis 10 8 6 15 10 4020
    7 10 You Are My Destiny - Paul Anka 9 10 8 9 11 4020
    8 11 Good Golly Miss Molly - Little Richard 11 11 12 11 8 3955
    12 12 April Love - Pat Boone 13 14 16 17 14 3060
    14 13 Chicago / All The Way - Frank Sinatra 15= 15 18 19 12 2985
    9 14 Oh Boy - The Crickets 12 20 14 12 13 2980
    16 15 Mandy - Eddie Calvert 14 18 19 10 15 2945
    18 16 Baby Lover - Petula Clark 17 13 16 18 2550
    20 17 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Ted Heath 15= 18 11 14 2025
    15 18 Can't Get Along Without You / We Are Not Alone - Frankie Vaughan 18 22 13 17 1875
    13 19 Love Me Forever - Marion Ryan 19 16 18 1495
    17 20 Peggy Sue - Buddy Holly 20 25 19 20 1130
    NEW 21 The Big Beat - Fats Domino 28 16 1095
    26 22 Sugartime - Alma Cogan 16 975
    19 23 Why Don't They Understand - George Hamilton IV 27 20 920
    23 24 Swingin' Shepherd Blues - Mo Kauffman 23 17 870
    RE 25 To Be Loved - Jackie Wilson 29 19 850
    24 26 To Be Loved - Malcolm Vaughan 25 14 815
    NEW 27 Oh-Oh I'm Falling In Love Again - Jimmie Rodgers 21 650
    22 28 Witchcraft - Frank Sinatra 24 455
    29 29 In Love - Michael Holliday 30 65
    Catch A Falling Star - Perry Como 12 13
    25 Bony Moronie - Larry Williams
    26 Sugartime - The McGuire Sisters
    28 Sugartime / Don't Let Go - Jim Dale
    30 Listen To Me - Buddy Holly

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    You may be right Robin. Norway used a system based on UK’s. The most serious dealer in Oslo with the biggest sales said that ranking records without using sales numbers had as a result that new records had problems entering the chart while those already charting stayed too long in the chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Not knowing what the NME dealers were doing, and not doing an in depth study on this, I did notice at times on the NME chart that if one side of a record hit the chart (lower reaches), and then later the b-side hit the chart, then they were kept separate as they both ascended. If both sides appeared together A/B at the lower reaches, then they continued together as the combo sided record ascended. So one could say it depended on how the sides debuted on the NME chart, and thus possibly how they debuted on the NME dealer charts. Just guessing by simple observation without spending any time researching it...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    Could it be the NME placed two sides of a single in separate chart positions if a certain amount of dealers listed them separately? Perhaps the compilers of the NME chart had a threshold which once reached would see both sides listed separately.
    That is a good point actually Robbie and would certainly make sense and explain the difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Still enjoying this thread and kingofskiffle’s chartbooks. This cold spring while waiting for the pandemic to subside would be worse without them.
    The chartbooks are not only chartbooks. Together they make a pop music Library that is a fantastic guide to all the wonderful music of the post dance band era of the forties. I can go both by artist and composer to find what I like. It’s not easy to stop looking and listening when chores call. To rephrase the title of Elvis soundalike Ral Donner’s only British hit: You don’t know what you’ve missed until you find it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The top 4 along with 'At The Hop' have been high up the chart for weeks now. They must have all been really strong sellers.

    Could it be the NME placed two sides of a single in separate chart positions if a certain amount of dealers listed them separately? Perhaps the compilers of the NME chart had a threshold which once reached would see both sides listed separately.

    Leave a comment:

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