I don't know what RR had against the excellent 'Paper Sun'.
RR placed it at 15 this week when the others had it at 8, then next week plunged it down to 37.
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
There are 15 minor differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 15th 1967. Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 15th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 3 2 1 1 18400 3 2 Alternate Title - The Monkees 2 2 1 3 3 18580 NEW 3 All You Need Is Love - The Beatles 3 1 3 6 2 17965 2 4 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 4= 5 4 5 4 16845 5 5 She'd Rather Be With Me - The Turtles 4= 4 5 4 5 16810 9 6 It Must Be Him - Vikki Carr 6 6 6 3 6 16175 4 7 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 7 7 7 7 7 15240 6 8 Paper Sun - Traffic 9= 8 8 8 15 14010 8 9 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 9= 9 9 10 11 13700 19 10 See Emily Play - Pink Floyd 8 10 10 9 8 13605 10 11 Here Comes The Nice - The Small Faces 11 11 11 13 14 12245 15 12 Seven Rooms Of Gloom - The Four Tops 13 12 12 12 18 11555 17 13 Respect - Aretha Franklin 12 15 15 11 10 10985 7 14 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 14= 13 13 14 19 10820 13 15 Strange Brew - Cream 16 14 14 15 17 10440 12 16 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 14= 17 17 16 9 9670 11 17 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 17 16 16 18 20 8985 14 18 The Happening - The Supremes 18 20 18 17 16 8125 18 19 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 19 22 20 19 12 7365 26 20 Take Me In Your Arms And Love Me - Gladys Knight and The Pips 21 19 19 20 22 7265 NEW 21 San Francisco - Scott McKenzie 20 18 26 21 13 6380 16 22 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 22 27 21 23 23 4780 28 23 Let's Pretend - Lulu 23 30 23 22 3100 NEW 24 Just Loving You - Anita Harris 26= 28 22 30 2950 30 25 Shake - Otis Redding 25 24 30 28 28 2205 24 26 I'll Come Running - Cliff Richard 28 24 26 2175 NEW 27 I Was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder 29= 21 2000 21 28 What Good Am I - Cilla Black 29= 25 27 1900 NEW 29 Annabella - John Walker 26= 25 24 1900 NEW 30 When You're Young And In Love - The Marvelettes 24 29 26 21 1750 Claire - Paul and Barry Ryan 23 1600 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 29= 28 24 1345 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 29 25 1100 Up Up And Away - The Johnny Mann Singers 26 1000 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 27 1000 You Only Live Twice / Jackson - Nancy Sinatra 25 510 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 27 340 Marta - The Bachelors 29 200 With A Little Help From My Friends - The Young Idea 29 170 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 30 85 Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed January 13, 2021, 14:15.Leave a comment:
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If it wasn't for A Whiter Shade Of Pale Engelbert would have emulated Gerry & The Pacemakers in getting his first three hits to Number One.Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
Ironically the classically influenced AWSOP also owed much of its success to the older record buyer...
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Actually Brian that's an easy one to understand. The film wasn't released in the UK till November of 1967, so the public would have not known in July the connection of the song to the movie.I could never understand why EMI in the UK went with Let's Pretend for Lulu instead of To Sir With Love,
a USA #1 for 5 weeks and the biggest selling single in the U.S. of 1967. A very strange mistake.
The film was much bigger in the states than it was here. Due to the fact that a black teacher was teaching white kids. Although the UK had it's element of racism, there were no laws telling black people that they couldn't mix with white people. It was the reason why the film was shot in the UK and not the USA. Even though he was clearly an American actor, which would have been odd for an American black teacher to be teaching in the UK, unless he came to the UK to train to be a teacher! It would have been hard to get the teaching qualifications (being black) in the USA, though not impossible. But it was clearly the intention of the film to highlight the silly laws of the USA, not to get caught up in reality.
Lulu admitted herself that she was just playing herself in the film. It was a bit ironic really as Lulu missed some school later in life, so much so that the school bobby came knocking on the door and Lulu's mum answered the question "Why hasn't she been at school?" With "She's a pop star".Leave a comment:
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
I could never understand why EMI in the UK went with Let's Pretend for Lulu instead of To Sir With Love,
a USA #1 for 5 weeks and the biggest selling single in the U.S. of 1967. A very strange mistake.
But, meantime here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 8th 1967. Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 8th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 1 1 1 1 19050 2 2 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 2 2 2 2 2 18415 7 3 Alternate Title - The Monkees 3 3 3 3 3 17780 3 4 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 4= 5 4 4 5 16860 6 5 She'd Rather Be With Me - The Turtles 4= 4 5 5 4 16795 5 6 Paper Sun - Traffic 6 6 7 6 8 15455 4 7 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 7 7 6 8 7 15390 8 8 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 8 8 9 7 9 14370 19 9 It Must Be Him - Vikki Carr 9 9 10 9 6 13975 11 10 Here Comes The Nice - The Small Faces 10 10 8 10 12 13665 12 11 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 11 11 11 12 16 12175 13 12 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 12 14 13 15 10 11285 20 13 Strange Brew - Cream 13 12 15 11 18 10905 10 14 The Happening - The Supremes 14 17 12 13 14 10795 18 15 Seven Rooms Of Gloom - The Four Tops 15 13 14 17 15 10610 9 16 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 17 15 16 14 20 9585 24 17 Respect - Aretha Franklin 16 16 18 16 11 9450 15 18 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 18 19 19 19 13 8130 27 19 See Emily Play - Pink Floyd 19 18 20 18 17 7840 14 20 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 20 20 17 20 23 7480 21 21 What Good Am I - Cilla Black 22= 21 21 21 5500 17 22 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 21 22 24 22 19 5470 16 23 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 25 24 23 25 24 4595 26 24 I'll Come Running - Cliff Richard 26 25 22 23 27 4590 22 25 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 22= 23 25 24 22 4565 NEW 26 Take Me In Your Arms And Love Me - Gladys Knight and The Pips 24 30 26 29 21 2500 23 27 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 27 29 27 26 25 2410 NEW 28 Let's Pretend - Lulu 28 27 30 28 30 1435 NEW 29 Claire - Paul and Barry Ryan 30 26 30 1100 NEW 30 Shake - Otis Redding 29 29 27 29 1070 Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 28 750 Annabella - John Walker 28 600 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 26 425 When You're Young And In Love - The Marvelettes 28 255 Leave a comment:
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If I remember correctly I think Dave Taylor once told me Cashbox compiled an averaged chart of their own and then added a random sample of some stores on top of this to get their chart but it was usually a week behind which would tie in with what you said Splodj.
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I wonder how Cashbox compiled their British chart. Alan Smith says it was a composite topped up with small-scale sampling.
However the Cashbox Top 20 does not bear such a striking similarity to the BBC chart as the Pop Weekly Top 30 which was supposed to be compiled in the same way (but ended in Nov-65). Looking at the 1-Jul-67 Cashbox the chart appears to be comparable to w/e 24-June published UK ones, evidenced by The Turtles entering at 16, but there are significant differences. For example, it has the Kinks at 3 instead of 5 or 7.Leave a comment:
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Thanks Splodj, I took a look and thought The Supremes are at 6, then noticed I had, The Happening by The Happening lol, have corrected that, thanks for picking it up
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 1st 1967. Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 1st 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 1 1 1 1 19050 2 2 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 2 2 2 2 2 18415 3 3 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 3 3 3 3 3 17780 7 4 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 4= 5 4 5 4 16845 8 5 Paper Sun - Traffic 4= 4 5 4 5 16810 17 6 She'd Rather Be With Me - The Turtles 6 7 6 7 6 15575 23 7 Alternate Title - The Monkees 7 6 7 9 7 15240 10 8 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 8 8 8 8 8 14605 4 9 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 9 9 12 6 9 13520 6 10 The Happening - The Supremes 10 11 9 10 10 13385 15 11 Here Comes The Nice - The Small Faces 11 10 10 11 14 12895 13 12 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 12 14 11 12 12 11915 16 13 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 13 16 13 13 11 11000 5 14 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 14= 12 15 15 15 10760 9 15 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 14= 13 17 14 13 10330 11 16 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 16 19 14 17 16 9325 12 17 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 17 23 16 16 18 7955 24 18 Seven Rooms Of Gloom - The Four Tops 18 18 21 18 17 7590 30 19 It Must Be Him - Vikki Carr 19 17 20 20 20 7585 25 20 Strange Brew - Cream 20 15 23 21 19 7220 18 21 What Good Am I - Cilla Black 21 21 18 19 24 7045 19 22 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 22= 25 19 24 22 5665 14 23 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 22= 22 22 23 23 5530 27 24 Respect - Aretha Franklin 24 20 24 22 25 5360 20 25 Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 25 24 26 25 21 4100 21 26 I'll Come Running - Cliff Richard 26 26 25 26 26 3425 NEW 27 See Emily Play - Pink Floyd 27 27 27 29 28 2255 22 28 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold 28 28 28 27 1390 28 29 Give Me Time - Dusty Springfield 30 29 29 670 29 30 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 28 600 Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP) - The Beatles 30 200 Take Me In Your Arms And Love Me - Gladys Knight and The Pips 29 27 30 485 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 29 400 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 30 250 When You're Young And In Love - The Marvelettes 30 100 Leave a comment:
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One of the great injustices in these charts is the Association - Windy not making the top 50 of any of the charts. It reached only the breakers of RR, but made number 15 in the Real Chart. It should have been in the top 30 over the next few weeks of these charts.
I know that Alan Smith said that each chart used different shops, but the fact that there is not a great deal of difference with them and records missing out that did sell large enough quantities to at least make the top 50 on some of the charts, implies that many shops supplied the same papers with lists.
Another thing that is odd too is that one of the contributors to this thread mentioned a Council auditing the charts! That's seem very strange that a public authority would do something like that as all the charts were produced by profit making commercial companies! I assume that the Council was paid the going rate and it wasn't done using the rate payers money. But even so should it even been undertaken by the Council in the first place? Wasn't the Council muscling in on a commercial auditing firms in doing so?
Can you see that happening today?
Though we think Council's are above board now (they aren't of course), the 60's Council's were not that squeaky clean at all. For example it is known that several commercial concrete firms had their hands in Council pots, and you only have to look around most towns and cities to see the over use of concrete!
So rather than justifying the charts a Council auditing was by today's standards on dodgy grounds. But fine then.Leave a comment:
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
And into the chart comes one of my very favourite singles of 1967, She'd Rather Be With Me from The Turtles. Wonderful stuff !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 24th 1967. Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 24th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 1 1 1 1 19050 2 2 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 2 2 2 2 2 18415 6 3 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 3 3 3 3 3 17780 4 4 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 4 4 6 4 4 16645 3 5 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 5 5 7 5 5 16010 5 6 The Happening - The Supremes 6= 7 4 7 7 15990 11 7 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 6= 6 5 8 6 15925 12 8 Paper Sun - Traffic 8 8 10 6 8 14305 10 9 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 9 9 13 11 9 12770 13 10 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 10 10 12 10 11 12750 8 11 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 11 11 11 12 10 12685 9 12 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 12 14 9 9 13 12630 16 13 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 13 16 8 13 15 11910 7 14 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 14 13 15 14 12 10915 24 15 Here Comes The Nice - The Small Faces 16 12 16 17 16 10225 17 16 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 15 17 14 15 14 10095 NEW 17 She'd Rather Be With Me - The Turtles 17 15 20 18 19 8270 27 18 What Good Am I - Cilla Black 20 18 18 16 28 7605 14 19 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 18 22 17 20 18 7505 20 20 Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 19 24 19 19 17 6790 25 21 I'll Come Running - Cliff Richard 22 19 22 21 29 5820 18 22 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold 21 27 21 22 20 5135 NEW 23 Alternate Title - The Monkees 26 21 24 29 30 4035 30 24 Seven Rooms Of Gloom - The Four Tops 23 23 28 23 21 4000 NEW 25 Strange Brew - Cream 24 20 25 22 3565 19 26 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 25 27 25 27 24 3295 NEW 27 Respect - Aretha Franklin 27 25 27 26 27 3040 23 28 Give Me Time - Dusty Springfield 29 23 30 26 2525 15 29 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 28 29 26 23 2330 NEW 30 It Must Be Him - Vikki Carr 30 26 30 24 1950 Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP) - The Beatles 30 200 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 29 25 1010 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 28 300 Last edited by MrTibbs; Sun October 18, 2020, 12:04.Leave a comment:
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Yeah I get the similarity between the Tops and R Dean as well. I love Motown.Leave a comment:
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Don't forget these charts used points not sales. To them one shop which sold 200 copies of a record was equal to a larger shop selling five times that amount. It's pretty inconsistent too that the Hump would miss the top spot and he didn't, not in the real world. Especially when you put Woolies into the play, which none of the above charts did.
Though Procol would go on to sell 1,703, they were out of the charts by September and Hump was still in November currently on 1,503 as I am still doing the full 1967 chart. However I can't see the record passing their figure. -
I believe Whiter Shade sold more over the weeks it thankfully kept Engelbert from No 1 but Engelbert picked up more sales overall by hanging around the chart for longer.
Yeah Splodj when I visited the newspaper library at Colindale a while back to copy all the chart positions I was well into 1969 copying the Disc chart before I realised it was the same as MM.Leave a comment:
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At least Procul Harum did what the Beatles couldn't do - they stopped Engelbert in his tracks! How many copies did 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale' sell? I once read it sold 600,000 copies which seems a bit low for a 6 week (on Record Retailer) chart topper. I've seen a figure of 750,000 for 'There Goes My Everything' which doesn't tie in with the Procol Harum figure.
Good to see 'Seven Rooms Of Gloom' by The Four Tops making the Ultimate Averaged Chart on the NME chart placing alone. The other newspapers were behind at first on this one and, as a result, so too was POTP. It's a seemingly forgotten Four Tops single. Great song though and a change from their normal style of flowing Motown songs. Excellent vocals and brilliant drumming. Although the track is listed on the charts as 'Seven Rooms Of Gloom', the credit on the actual record is '7-Rooms Of Gloom'.Leave a comment:
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Indeed it does seem silly to include albums when you have them listed in a separate chart.
When Disc stopped compiling their own single and album charts there was no mention of it in the paper and I bet very few readers realised they had switched over to using MMs. Only after few years did they have a MM credit underneath their printed chart.
Also Disc did not say who provided their USA charts in the 60s, perhaps presuming that you assumed it was Billboard. In fact only RM did not use Billboard, with Cashbox. Then when Billboard took over RM they became the only one who did use Billboard, with MM changing to Record World and the other two changing to Cashbox.
Last edited by Splodj; Sat October 17, 2020, 08:26.Leave a comment:
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 17th 1967. Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 17th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 1 1 1 1 19050 4 2 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 2 2 2 2 2 18415 3 3 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 3= 4 3 4 3 17480 2 4 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 3= 3 4 3 4 17445 7 5 The Happening - The Supremes 5 5 5 6 6 16325 14 6 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 6 6 8 5 5 15560 5 7 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 7 7 6 9 9 15120 6 8 The I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 8 8 10 7 8 14205 10 9 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 9 11 7 10 11 13800 9 10 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 10 10 9 14 7 13440 16 11 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 11 9 11 12 10 13085 24 12 Paper Sun - Traffic 13 14 12 13 12 11565 22 13 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 12 12 15 8 14 11545 15 14 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 14 16 13 11 13 11030 8 15 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 15 13 17 18 15 9760 26 16 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 16= 15 16 15 22 9315 21 17 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 16= 20 14 17 17 9040 17 18 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold 18 18 18 16 18 8455 12 19 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 19 17 20 20 20 7585 28 20 Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 20 21 19 22 19 6920 11 21 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 22 21 23 27 21 5250 13 22 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 21 28 21 26 16 4875 23 23 Give Me Time - Dusty Springfield 23 26 24 21 27 4090 NEW 24 Here Comes The Nice - The Small Faces 26 19 26 26 4075 NEW 25 I'll Come Running - Cliff Richard 27 23 25 24 3800 18 26 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 24= 22 23 25 3560 NEW 27 What Good Am I - Cilla Black 24= 23 28 19 3550 19 28 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 28= 27 25 29 1770 20 29 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 28= 29 29 23 1380 NEW 30 Seven Rooms Of Gloom - The Four Tops 25 1200 Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP) - The Beatles 27 800 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 30 30 24 845 Strange Brew - Cream 29 28 700 I Got Rhythm - The Happenings 30 28 355 Respect - Aretha Franklin 30 200 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 30 85
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Yeah setg you are right, that stirred my memory on what I read, Disc stopped the practise of placing albums in the singles chart when they started their album chart.Leave a comment:
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The last album I can find charting in Disc was "Rubber Soul" at #26 on January 8, 1966. Disc started publishing a separate album chart on April 23 the same year – maybe that's when LPs stopped being eligible for the singles chart? A sensible decision, I wonder why NME didn't do the same...Originally posted by MrTibbs View PostLeave a comment:
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that Disc stopped albums in their singles chart around the end of 1966 and only NME continued beyond that.Leave a comment:
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I think Radio London put 'A Day In The Life' at number one because it put into sharp contrast their policy and that of the BBC who had banned it.Leave a comment:
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Even before Sgt Pepper came out artists were fighting tooth and nail to record the songs off the album. Bernard Cribbins even did When I'm 64.
Others doing songs from it: The Young Idea, David and Jonathan, Joe Brown, Kenny Ball.
Of course if downloads had been around then, the tracks from it would have been all over the top 40! But of course it was many years later when any Beatles tracks from it were issued as a single.
The fact that it's in any of the singles charts shows you how sloppy some of the dealers filled in their returns. Had they all been like that then it would have been number one on NME. Since the album in 200 shops would have outsold any singles. I don't think NME placed it into the singles chart. Unlike Radio London, who placed it at number one, but then all the records were placed into it on that top 40.Leave a comment:
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