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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Looks like Disc are no longer including LPs, or surely Sgt Pepper would be in their 30.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 10th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 10th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 2 2 3 2 2 18165
    2 3 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 3 4 2 3 3 17830
    6 4 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 4 3 4 4 4 17345
    4 5 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 5 5 5 5 7 16340
    5 6 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 6 6 7 6 5 15710
    8 7 The Happening - The Supremes 7 7 6 7 6 15575
    7 8 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 8 8 8 8 8 14605
    13 9 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 9 9 10 11 9 13520
    15 10 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 10 10 9 10 11 13500
    9 11 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 11 10 11 9 10 13185
    10 12 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 12 12 12 14 13 11780
    12 13 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 15 14 19 12 12 9915
    NEW 14 Carrie Anne - The Hollies 14 13 17 17 17 9690
    18 15 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 13 18 15 13 16 9675
    28 16 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 16 15 20 21 14 8395
    19 17 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold 17 22 16 15 19 8170
    14 18 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 18 23 14 20 18 8055
    11 19 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 19 26 13 16 22 7765
    16 20 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 20 24 18 19 20 6785
    21 21 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 21 24 21 18 21 6050
    26 22 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 22 15 27 23 23 5680
    27 23 Give Me Time - Dusty Springfield 23 17 26 22 24 5545
    NEW 24 Paper Sun - Traffic 25 19 23 30 26 4925
    17 25 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 24 30 22 24 15 4510
    29 26 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 26 20 24 27 4350
    22 27 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 27 27 25 28 28 2855
    NEW 28 Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 28 28 30 26 25 1860
    24 29 Walking In The Rain - The Walker Brothers 29 29 29 25 1500
    20 30 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 30 28 27 1090
    Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP) - The Beatles 21 2000
    I Got Rhythm - The Happenings 29 200
    Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 29 170
    Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Also, by this time she'd had an incredible 39 hits in France including five number ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    For my money Pet Clark and Dusty Springfield were the best of the best of the sixties female hitmakers, but whilst saying that I'm also not demeaning some of the excellent others of the period who gave me so much listening pleasure.
    Pet and Dusty in the mid sixties both recorded some mini masterpieces of pop perfection that I still love today.

    Across the water though, and it may come as a surprise to some, Pet was the biggest by far of all our sixties girls, scoring two #1's in 65 and 66 and racking up a further 13 Top Forty hits on top of those by the end of the sixties.
    By contrast Dusty had 10, Cilla had 1, Lulu had 3, but Sandie didn't have any, the closest she came was #42.

    In America Pet was titled 'The First Lady Of The British Invasion' and by the chart statistics above she most certainly was.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Pet Clark recorded 3 versions but there was a mix-up in distribution. The UK got 'Don't Sleep In The Subway', France got 'Don't Sleep In The Underground' and the USA got 'Ne Dormez Pas Dans Le Metro'.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    2 excellent new entries this week from Pet Clark and The Young Rascals, the 'summer of love' and the era of flower power begins to bloom. 9 differences in chart positions between the BBC and Ultimate Chart this week mainly in the lower chart region.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 3rd 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 3rd 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    13 3 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 3 3 3 3 4 17695
    3 4 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 4 4 4 4 3 17230
    4 5 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 5 5 5 5 5 16510
    21 6 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 6 6 7 6 7 15540
    8 7 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 7 8 6 8 6 15275
    12 8 The Happening - The Supremes 8 7 9 7 8 14655
    6 9 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 9 9 8 9 9 14220
    5 10 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 10 10 10 10 11 13250
    7 11 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 12 13 11 13 14 11845
    9 12 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 11 11 15 11 10 11785
    14 13 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 13 12 13 14 13 11530
    10 14 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 14 15 12 16 12 11065
    18 15 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 15 16 14 12 16 10425
    11 16 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 16 14 16 15 17 9940
    15 17 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 17 17 19 17 15 8560
    20 18 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 18 19 18 19 18 7955
    23 19 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P. P. Arnold 19 18 21 18 22 7165
    16 20 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 20 17 20 19 5620
    25 21 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 21 22 20 26 25 5560
    22 22 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 25 21 24 28 27 4390
    17 23 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 22 29 22 24 21 4200
    26 24 Walking In The Rain - The Walker Brothers 24 23 25 25 26 4125
    19 25 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 23 23 23 20 3735
    NEW 26 Groovin' - The Young Rascals 26 20 21 3200
    NEW 27 Give Me Time - Dusty Springfield 29 26 26 27 2650
    NEW 28 Okay - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 27 30 22 24 1745
    NEW 29 Don't Sleep In The Subway - Petula Clark 25 29 1700
    27 30 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 28 27 23 1680
    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP) - The Beatles 26 1000
    Night Of The Long Grass - The Troggs 30 24 29 1600
    Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds 28 29 920
    I Got Rhythm - The Happenings 28 30 700
    I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 30 28 455
    Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Lots of BBC ties again this week but the divine 'Whiter Shade' THE hit of 1967 comes in to grace the chart !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 27th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 27th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    7 2 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 2 2 2 3 2 18315
    2 3 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 3 3 3 2 3 17880
    11 4 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 4 6 4 4 4 16745
    3 5 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 5 5 5 5 5 16510
    4 6 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 6 4 6 7 6 16175
    6 7 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 7 8 7 6 8 15055
    14 8 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 8= 7 10 8 9 14220
    8 9 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 8= 9 9 9 7 14140
    5 10 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 10 10 8 11 10 13735
    9 11 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 11 12 11 10 11 12600
    21 12 The Happening - The Supremes 12 14 12 12 13 11580
    NEW 13 A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum 15 11 14 13 21 10900
    19 14 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 13 13 15 14 15 10660
    16 15 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 14 15 16 15 12 10165
    15 16 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 16 19 13 19 14 9545
    10 17 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 17 17 17 17 18 8805
    24 18 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 18 20 18 16 17 8140
    12 19 Purple Haze - The Jimi Handrix Experience 19 18 20 18 16 7925
    29 20 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 20 23 19 20 22 6465
    NEW 21 There Goes My Everything - Engelbert Humperdinck 21 16 22 23 29 6220
    23 22 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 22 22 23 22 27 5040
    27 23 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P. P. Arnold 23= 24 24 24 23 4530
    13 24 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 23= 21 28 26 20 4185
    25 25 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 26= 27 21 30 25 3910
    NEW 26 Walking In The Rain - The Walker Brothers 25 25 25 21 3700
    17 27 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 26= 26 27 19 2670
    18 28 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 28 27 25 24 2195
    NEW 29 Music To Watch Girls By - Andy Williams 29 25 28 1500
    20 30 Happy Together - The Turtles 30 29 29 26 1125
    Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds 29 30 28 905
    I Got Rhythm - The Happenings 28 600
    Groovin' - The Young Rascals 29 400
    I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Hanging around at the same time as these charts were lots of records that for some reason were ignored by the main charts. Most well known too.
    Such as David Bowie - The Laughing Gnome (which David hated). Danny Laine - Say You Don't Mind. - yes the 70's hit for someone else! Manfred Man - Sweet Pea. And an EP from Paul Jones - Privilege, which did make RR EP chart. It's was from a movie, which I have never seen! Suppose it might turn up one day on Talking Pictures TV.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    ^

    There's a retro feel to it too - it slightly reminds me of The New Vaudeville Band's "Finchley Central" - another new entry in this very chart....
    Last edited by Metalweb; Wed October 14, 2020, 23:55.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Have a listen to it Robbie, it's quirky, catchy, and so 1967. It perfectly embraces the era and the spirit of the time.
    I meant to edit my first sentence to read "I'd not heard of 'Birds And Bees' by Warm Sounds until now, I've just listened to it on YouTube.". It's an interesting song and I can hear its appeal.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Have a listen to it Robbie, it's quirky, catchy, and so 1967. It perfectly embraces the era and the spirit of the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I've not heard of 'Birds And Bees' by Warm Sounds. I can see it's appeal, especially in the context of the original Summer Of Love.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    At last the sublime Birds And Bees by Warm Sounds gets a foothold in the chart, one of THE wistful summer sounds of 1967 !
    Eight differences in chart positions between the BBC and Ultimate Charts this week.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 20th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 20th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    4 1 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    3 2 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    1 3 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    6 4 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 4 4 5 4 4 16895
    2 5 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 5 5 6 5 5 16260
    5 6 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 6 6 4 8 6 16175
    19 7 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 7 7 7 6 9 15170
    9 8 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 8 8 8 7 8 14705
    8 9 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 9 9 9 9 7 14140
    10 10 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 10 11 10 11 11 12950
    18 11 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 11 12 11 12 12 12315
    7 12 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 12 10 14 14 10 11935
    11 13 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 14 14 13 13 13 11230
    22 14 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 13 13 15 10 15 11060
    16 15 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 15 18 12 15 14 10395
    20 16 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 16 16 17 19 16 8975
    13 17 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 18 20 16 17 21 8200
    12 18 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 17 17 21 16 18 7905
    21 19 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 19 15 22 21 17 7640
    14 20 Happy Together - The Turtles 20 19 19 22 19 7320
    NEW 21 The Happening - The Supremes 21 22 18 20 23 6830
    15 22 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 23 25 20 25 20 5485
    25 23 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 22 23 23 18 4900
    NEW 24 Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 24 21 29 23 25 3810
    27 25 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 25 27 24 28 26 3275
    17 26 Bernadette - The Four Tops 26 25 27 24 2495
    28 27 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P. P. Arnold 27 24 24 30 2185
    23 28 Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows 29 30 26 29 29 1820
    NEW 29 Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill 28 29 28 26 1650
    NEW 30 Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds 30 26 27 1340
    This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 27 28 1255
    Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 22 765
    Music To Watch Girls By - Andy Williams 28 600
    Walking In The Rain - The Walker Brothers 30 30 350

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I have to agree 100% that P. P. Arnold's First Cut should have been a massive hit, as it was a stunning single and well ahead of its time. But then so was the follow up, The Time Has Come, (watch the Beat Club video on You Tube) which also should have reached the upper echelons of the chart. In a similar vein a year later later in 1968 Madeleine Bell was also robbed of a hit with I'm Gonna Make You Love Me another powerful vocal and strong single.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    It's rather sad that PP Arnold failed to make number one, but Rod Stewart did with that song.
    There's a line in the Kinks song "Terry meets Julie" that has become famous as a myth. The story is that it's about Terrence Stamp and Julie Christie. However years later one of the Kinks said it was about his brother and girlfriend and not the film stars!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Glad you continue to enjoy ACA and thanks for 'liking' the thread. Alan sometimes mentioned ties on POTP and sometimes didn't which led to confusion at times.

    Leave a comment:


  • ACA
    replied
    The only difference in my notes from this day is that the Turtles were played or mentioned at 15 and Cat Stevens at 14. But still I wasn't aware of the joint positions at that time, so it must have been the presenters choice (Alan Freeman).

    Glad to see you proceed with your excellent work! Don't give up, it's worthwhile!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Another week with the BBC chart riddled with ties and fourteen differences in chart positions between the BBC and Ultimate Charts between positions 11 and 30.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 13th 1967 for your pleasure.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 13th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 2 3 2 3 2 18115
    6 3 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 3 2 4 2 3 17830
    13 4 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 4 4 3 4 4 17395
    10 5 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 5 6 5 5 6 16225
    15 6 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 6 7 6 9 5 15460
    4 7 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 7 5 9 8 7 15040
    8 8 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 8 10 7 6 8 14655
    9 9 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 9 11 8 7 11 13850
    3 10 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 10= 9 10 10 10 13535
    7 11 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 10= 8 11 11 9 13470
    5 12 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 12 12 12 12 12 12065
    12 13 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 13= 15 14 14 15 10510
    14 14 Happy Together - The Turtles 13= 14 15 13 16 10475
    11 15 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 13= 13 16 16 13 10380
    17 16 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 16 18 13 15 14 10145
    16 17 Bernadette - The Four Tops 17 16 17 17 18 9005
    NEW 18 Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 18 20 18 18 19 7770
    NEW 19 Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks 21 17 19 20 29 7070
    27 20 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 19 21 21 28 17 5990
    24 21 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 20 19 26 22 21 5400
    NEW 22 The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 22 24 25 19 27 4440
    23 23 Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows 24 28 20 26 25 4360
    19 24 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 23 22 21 23 3930
    NEW 25 Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 26= 27 23 23 3600
    18 26 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 25 23 28 27 22 3515
    30 27 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 28= 29 24 30 28 2505
    NEW 28 The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold 30 22 25 2400
    20 29 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 26= 29 24 20 2035
    21 30 Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 28= 27 29 24 1795
    Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds 25 1200
    Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band 26 1000
    I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 29 500
    Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin 26 425
    The Happening - The Supremes 30 250
    Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The three way tie finally epitomised and laid bare just how inadequate the BBC's system of averaging out was. If they had adopted a more robust and consistent approach it shouldn't have happened as the potential for such a tie should surely have been foreseen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    An interesting point to ponder is that (almost certainly) the infamous 3-way tie would not have happened if Disc had stayed in the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    An early example of a Radio Station not basing what they play based on what people are buying. This became more common when commercial radio started. Many of them wouldn't play some chart hits and when Punk came along the charts were a no go area for Radio Stations. How many stations today will use the Official top 40 as A grade playlist material?

  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    But there are three easy ways to sort out joint positions. 1: Most weeks in chart. 2: Alphabetical. 3: based on last week positions highest first. The BBC could have also just phoned a one shop up at random and ask the owner which of the records sold more in their shop.
    But of course none of this mattered to the BBC till the number one became compromised and they gave up on the system after that.

  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Yeah some weeks the BBC and The Ultimate Averaged Charts only differ by a handful of positions plus tie breaking. Some weeks there are more differences than others some quite markedly.
    When we get to March 1960 to March1962 you will see a lot more differences due to the factoring in of the RM and RR charts which the BBC didn't include at that time. So we might potentially see a greatly different averaged chart for that period.
    What I like about the Ultimate Averaged Chart is that it shows that the concept behind the compilation of the Pick Of The Pops chart was sound. It gave a broad overview of what was popular in the charts of the 1960s. However the simplicity of the chart compilation method also left the POTP chart open to problems such as joint postions which your averaged chart doesn't have. The BBC chart didn't have a satisfactory method of dealing with joint positions while the Ultimate Averaged chart does.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah some weeks the BBC and The Ultimate Averaged Charts only differ by a handful of positions plus tie breaking. Some weeks there are more differences than others some quite markedly.
    When we get to March 1960 to March1962 you will see a lot more differences due to the factoring in of the RM and RR charts which the BBC didn't include at that time. So we might potentially see a greatly different averaged chart for that period.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Despite all the classic singles they came out with in later decades I still think the chilling NYMD1941 is the Bee Gees' most memorable composition (and the obvious inspiration for Bowie's Space Oddity a couple of years later).

    It was inspired by the recent Aberfan disaster ("Mr Jones...") and presumably the rather random title (as Graham pointed out earlier, there was no mining disaster in New York in '41) was to avoid accusations of "cashing in" on the tragedy...

    Leave a comment:

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