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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.
    Good point, reverse engineer !!

    Also, was there any other music paper anywhere on the planet that carried the Disc charts, maybe in the USA, which may have printed 1 or 2 of them for these skipped weeks?

    Also, mathematically it is possible to create 2 bridged charts from 2 skipped weeks, you just calculate 2 equal distance chart position midpoints between the 2 known charts before and after, and rank those midpoints for each record on each midpoint chart. Noting that some new entries would not be included if those records hadn't been released yet, or hadn't yet appeared anywhere on the other music paper charts. Not 100% accurate, especially for records that might have/could have popped into the charts at a low position for just 1 or 2 weeks, but it can be done, it might be worth something, and might be better than skipping altogether.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.
    To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    And .. so onto and into 1959, the final year of the UAC to complete the set 1955 to 1969.

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 3rd 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 3rd 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 1 1 1 4800
    2 2 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 2 2 2 2 4640
    3 3 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 3 4 3 3 4405
    5 4 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 4 3 4 6 4275
    4 5 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 5 5 5 4 4220
    8 6 Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como 6 7 6 5 3985
    9 7 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 7 6 7 9 3795
    6 8 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 8 8 8 7 3740
    7 9 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 9 9 9 8 3580
    16 10 More Party Pops - Russ Conway 10 10 10 10 3360
    10 11 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 11 11 11 11 3200
    13 12 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 12 12 12 13 2980
    12 13 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan 13 13 14 12 2915
    11 14 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte 14 15 18 14 2545
    14 15 Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini 16 19 13 16 2250
    25 16 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 17 17 19 20 2010
    15 17 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis 15 24 15 15 1885
    20 18 The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte 21 19 1470
    NEW 19 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 25 17 1290
    24 20 To Know You Is To Love You - The Teddy Bears 18 20 16 1200
    NEW 21 Baby Face - Little Richard 19 16 1125
    26 22 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 17 1050
    RE 23 Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan 18 780
    30 24 King Creole - Elvis Presley 22 675
    NEW 25 My Ukelele - Max Bygraves 23 600
    21 26 Mr Success - Frank Sinatra 20 26 375
    27 27 Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis 17 350
    28 28 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 27 300
    RE 29 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves 20 275
    18 30 Move It - Cliff Richard 28 225
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 14
    19 Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis 29 150
    23 Real Love - Ruby Murray 30 75
    17 Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers
    22 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands
    29 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey
    * Disc did not compile a chart again this week. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC as their was no chart for the previous week to compare.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

    I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.
    That's possible. In the summer of 1959 during the printers strike a couple of the music papers did not publish, RM and Disc but continued to submit their weekly charts to the BBC for inclusion in the BBC chart. Given what Robbie said above and David's analysis of that BBC chart it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

    I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.
    Yip, I agree, I don't know how they compiled that chart, that week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.
    The sentimental 'B' side of As I Love You, Hands Across The Sea, was hugely popular on Two Way Family Favourites for years.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    There is no way that Elvis could be at 20 in the BBC Chart if they only used NME and RM. I suspect they used the frozen weeks.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    Looking at the Disc issues for 27 December 1958 and 3 January 1959 I notice the magazine claims that the charts had been held back as due to the Christmas holidays and the ensuring change in printing schedules the newspaper stated it was unable to give a completely accurate Top 20 chart for either week and so were holding back the charts for those two weeks. Looking at the Disc chart dated 10 January 1959 (which is marked as sales week ending 3 January 1959) not much changed in those three weeks. It makes me wonder if that particular chart included dealer returns spread over three weeks.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yet again you will see a bridging chart for MM in the above chart taking an average from the weeks of 20th December and 3rd January 1958 to give a mid point. Again I think it fits in well. As Disc did not compile a chart for two weeks it was not possible to compile a bridging chart for them as their was no chart available for 3rd January.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 27th 1958

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 27th 1958 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 65 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 1 1 1 4500
    2 2 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 2 2 2 2 4350
    3 3 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 3 3 2 3 4225
    4 4 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 4 6 4 4 3920
    7 5 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 5 4 5 6 3905
    6 6 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 7 4 7 8 3735
    8 7 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 9 9 8 5 3565
    5 8 Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como 6 7 5 9 3530
    11 9 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 8 8 9 7 3485
    10 10 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 10 10 10 11 3090
    13 11 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte 11 12 15 10 2895
    9 12 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan 12 11 12 14 2795
    16 13 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Ricky Nelson 13 13 14 13 2675
    14 14 Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini 17 15 13 12 2630
    12 15 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis 14 14 11 15 2565
    19 16 More Party Pops - Johnny Mathis 15 18 15 16 2145
    15 17 Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers 19 19 17 20 1790
    24 18 Move It - Cliff Richard 21 17 1490
    29 19 Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis 16 17 910
    17 20 The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte 24 18 780
    29 21 Mr Success - Frank Sinatra 18 18 780
    25 22 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Jodie Sands 19 720
    20 23 Real Love - Ruby Murray 20 715
    26 24 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 25 18 715
    NEW 25 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 22 585
    NEW 26 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 23 520
    22 27 Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis 28 20 470
    NEW 28 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 26 325
    NEW 29 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 27 260
    18 30 King Creole - Elvis Presley 20 29 130
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 15
    Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 30 65
    21 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly
    27 Fallin' - Connie Francis
    23 Cha Cha Momma Brown - Martinas and His Orchestra
    28 Susie Darlin' - Robin Luke
    * MM and Disc did not compile a chart this week so an average position was taken of likely chart position for this non compiled week by taking a mid point position between the chart for 20th December 1958 and the chart for 3rd January 1959 for MM in order to compile the Ultimate Averaged Chart. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC.
    ** Although the BBC compiled a chart this week it did not say how this was done. I assume it used only the NME and RM chart.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.
    I have amended the chart for 20th December above as Martinas was erroneously placed at #18 in Disc when it should have been RM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I can understand why LPs were included up to July 1956, but not afterwards - apart from the odd error.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    After they started an LP chart?
    Hits That Missed list LP's from as far back as the first dealers chart, so I assume they had some even then. Enough for a top 5? Maybe not... But they (and EPs) were listed from 1954.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by kjell View Post
    There were LPs in the RM dealers charts
    After they started an LP chart?

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    There were LPs in the RM dealers charts, but with variations in numbers thru’ the years. RM must have gotten the basis for their LP chart from them, and I guess they had such a short chart to be able to keep the number of entries steady. However, that means they missed those record that were below the top 5. To my opinion it would have been more hit productive to let the LP chart vary.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I agree about not bothering with location, but am still mystified by this idea that an extended LP chart could be produced. The RMs I have seen from that period do not show the LP returns from individual stores.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    The RM concept of MrTibbs will disclose all the hits Oct 55 - Mar 61. Whether they were mainly regional or national won’t produce unknown hits. Trying to split the national RM into regions will mean a massive amount of work that will produce no new hits and be of little value for only a few. What’s really important is the concept MrTibbs posted yesterday morning at 09.29. What he finds there may also produce an extended LP chart as a byproduct.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Looking at wikipedia I see that 'It's Only Make Believe' is yet another record that started life as a B-side. The original A side in the US was a song called 'I'll Try'. A station in Ohio picked up on playing 'It's Only Make Believe' rather than 'I'll Try' which had been a total flop. This inspired the label to flip sides. In the UK the label chose 'It's Only Make Believe' as the A side off the back of its US success.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    I just noticed that Disc has 2 no.18s and a 19 this week (as well as 20). Checking Lonnie's 70 Year's, the Martinas and His Orchestra may be in error - or should that be in the RM column as I don't see an 18 there? This would also change its position in the UAC if so (it would be on 780 points and so at 23?
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Tue May 10, 2022, 04:22.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Conway Twitty number one.

    In 1999 John Peel had a 'Peelennium' feature on his show where each week he selected 4 records for each year since 1900. There were very few number ones, as you can imagine, but 'Its Only Make Believe' was one of the four he selected for 1958.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelennium

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Brian,
    wasn't the original thread pretty popular? I expect you'd get at least the same number in a new thread probably many more after the UAC thread. I certainly think its worth it and I expect most (all?) of the people still on this thread would agree.

    Leave a comment:

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