The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

Good point, reverse engineer !!

Also, was there any other music paper anywhere on the planet that carried the Disc charts, maybe in the USA, which may have printed 1 or 2 of them for these skipped weeks?

Also, mathematically it is possible to create 2 bridged charts from 2 skipped weeks, you just calculate 2 equal distance chart position midpoints between the 2 known charts before and after, and rank those midpoints for each record on each midpoint chart. Noting that some new entries would not be included if those records hadn't been released yet, or hadn't yet appeared anywhere on the other music paper charts. Not 100% accurate, especially for records that might have/could have popped into the charts at a low position for just 1 or 2 weeks, but it can be done, it might be worth something, and might be better than skipping altogether.

[Splodj]

it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.

To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

And .. so onto and into 1959, the final year of the UAC to complete the set 1955 to 1969.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 3rd 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 3rd 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1		1	4800
2	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	2		2	4640
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	4	3		3	4405
5	4	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					4	3	4		6	4275
4	5	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					5	5	5		4	4220
8	6	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6	7	6		5	3985
9	7	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					7	6	7		9	3795
6	8	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					8	8	8		7	3740
7	9	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					9	9	9		8	3580
16	10	More Party Pops - Russ Conway					10	10	10		10	3360
10	11	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					11	11	11		11	3200
13	12	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					12	12	12		13	2980
12	13	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					13	13	14		12	2915
11	14	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte					14	15	18		14	2545
14	15	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					16	19	13		16	2250
25	16	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey					17	17	19		20	2010
15	17	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					15	24	15		15	1885
20	18	The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte						21			19	1470
NEW	19	Cannonball - Duane Eddy						25			17	1290
24	20	To Know You Is To Love You - The Teddy Bears					18	20	16			1200
NEW	21	Baby Face - Little Richard					19	16				1125
26	22	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis						17				1050
RE	23	Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan									18	780
30	24	King Creole - Elvis Presley						22				675
NEW	25	My Ukelele - Max Bygraves						23				600
21	26	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra					20	26				375
27	27	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis							17			350
28	28	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						27				300
RE	29	Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves							20			275
18	30	Move It - Cliff Richard						28				225
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						14
19		Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis						29				150
23		Real Love - Ruby Murray						30				75
17		Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers
22		Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands
29		As I Love You - Shirley Bassey
		* Disc did not compile a chart again this week. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC as their was no chart for the previous week to compare.

[MrTibbs]

Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.

That's possible. In the summer of 1959 during the printers strike a couple of the music papers did not publish, RM and Disc but continued to submit their weekly charts to the BBC for inclusion in the BBC chart. Given what Robbie said above and David's analysis of that BBC chart it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.

[Splodj]

Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.

[MrTibbs]

OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.

Yip, I agree, I don't know how they compiled that chart, that week.

[MrTibbs]

Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.

The sentimental 'B' side of As I Love You, Hands Across The Sea, was hugely popular on Two Way Family Favourites for years.

[braindeadpj]

OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.

[braindeadpj]

There is no way that Elvis could be at 20 in the BBC Chart if they only used NME and RM. I suspect they used the frozen weeks.

[Robbie]

Looking at the Disc issues for 27 December 1958 and 3 January 1959 I notice the magazine claims that the charts had been held back as due to the Christmas holidays and the ensuring change in printing schedules the newspaper stated it was unable to give a completely accurate Top 20 chart for either week and so were holding back the charts for those two weeks. Looking at the Disc chart dated 10 January 1959 (which is marked as sales week ending 3 January 1959) not much changed in those three weeks. It makes me wonder if that particular chart included dealer returns spread over three weeks.

[Splodj]

Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.

[MrTibbs]

Yet again you will see a bridging chart for MM in the above chart taking an average from the weeks of 20th December and 3rd January 1958 to give a mid point. Again I think it fits in well. As Disc did not compile a chart for two weeks it was not possible to compile a bridging chart for them as their was no chart available for 3rd January.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 27th 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 27th 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1		1	4500
2	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	2		2	4350
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	3	2		3	4225
4	4	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					4	6	4		4	3920
7	5	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					5	4	5		6	3905
6	6	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					7	4	7		8	3735
8	7	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					9	9	8		5	3565
5	8	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6	7	5		9	3530
11	9	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					8	8	9		7	3485
10	10	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					10	10	10		11	3090
13	11	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte					11	12	15		10	2895
9	12	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					12	11	12		14	2795
16	13	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Ricky Nelson					13	13	14		13	2675
14	14	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					17	15	13		12	2630
12	15	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					14	14	11		15	2565
19	16	More Party Pops - Johnny Mathis					15	18	15		16	2145
15	17	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					19	19	17		20	1790
24	18	Move It - Cliff Richard						21			17	1490
29	19	Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis					16	17				910
17	20	The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte						24	18			780
29	21	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra					18				18	780
25	22	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Jodie Sands									19	720
20	23	Real Love - Ruby Murray						20				715
26	24	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears						25	18			715
NEW	25	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey						22				585
NEW	26	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis						23				520
22	27	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis						28	20			470
NEW	28	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						26				325
NEW	29	As I Love You - Shirley Bassey						27				260
18	30	King Creole - Elvis Presley					20	29				130
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						15
		Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper						30				65
21		Heartbeat - Buddy Holly
27		Fallin' - Connie Francis
23		Cha Cha Momma Brown - Martinas and His Orchestra
28		Susie Darlin' - Robin Luke
		* MM and Disc did not compile a chart this week so an average position was taken of likely chart position for this non compiled week by taking a mid point position between the chart for 20th December 1958 and the chart for 3rd January 1959 for MM in order to compile the Ultimate Averaged Chart. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC.
		** Although the BBC compiled a chart this week it did not say how this was done. I assume it used only the NME and RM chart.

[MrTibbs]

Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.

I have amended the chart for 20th December above as Martinas was erroneously placed at #18 in Disc when it should have been RM.

[Splodj]

I can understand why LPs were included up to July 1956, but not afterwards - apart from the odd error.

[kingofskiffle]

After they started an LP chart?

Hits That Missed list LP's from as far back as the first dealers chart, so I assume they had some even then. Enough for a top 5? Maybe not... But they (and EPs) were listed from 1954.

[Splodj]

There were LPs in the RM dealers charts

After they started an LP chart?

[kjell]

There were LPs in the RM dealers charts, but with variations in numbers thru’ the years. RM must have gotten the basis for their LP chart from them, and I guess they had such a short chart to be able to keep the number of entries steady. However, that means they missed those record that were below the top 5. To my opinion it would have been more hit productive to let the LP chart vary.

[Splodj]

I agree about not bothering with location, but am still mystified by this idea that an extended LP chart could be produced. The RMs I have seen from that period do not show the LP returns from individual stores.

[kjell]

The RM concept of MrTibbs will disclose all the hits Oct 55 - Mar 61. Whether they were mainly regional or national won’t produce unknown hits. Trying to split the national RM into regions will mean a massive amount of work that will produce no new hits and be of little value for only a few. What’s really important is the concept MrTibbs posted yesterday morning at 09.29. What he finds there may also produce an extended LP chart as a byproduct.

[Robbie]

Looking at wikipedia I see that 'It's Only Make Believe' is yet another record that started life as a B-side. The original A side in the US was a song called 'I'll Try'. A station in Ohio picked up on playing 'It's Only Make Believe' rather than 'I'll Try' which had been a total flop. This inspired the label to flip sides. In the UK the label chose 'It's Only Make Believe' as the A side off the back of its US success.

[MrTibbs]

Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.

[braindeadpj]

I just noticed that Disc has 2 no.18s and a 19 this week (as well as 20). Checking Lonnie's 70 Year's, the Martinas and His Orchestra may be in error - or should that be in the RM column as I don't see an 18 there? This would also change its position in the UAC if so (it would be on 780 points and so at 23?

[Splodj]

Conway Twitty number one.

In 1999 John Peel had a 'Peelennium' feature on his show where each week he selected 4 records for each year since 1900. There were very few number ones, as you can imagine, but 'Its Only Make Believe' was one of the four he selected for 1958.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelennium

[braindeadpj]

Brian,
wasn't the original thread pretty popular? I expect you'd get at least the same number in a new thread probably many more after the UAC thread. I certainly think its worth it and I expect most (all?) of the people still on this thread would agree.