The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Graham76man]

Hanging around at the same time as these charts were lots of records that for some reason were ignored by the main charts. Most well known too.
Such as David Bowie - The Laughing Gnome (which David hated). Danny Laine - Say You Don't Mind. - yes the 70's hit for someone else! Manfred Man - Sweet Pea. And an EP from Paul Jones - Privilege, which did make RR EP chart. It's was from a movie, which I have never seen! Suppose it might turn up one day on Talking Pictures TV.

[Metalweb]

^

There's a retro feel to it too - it slightly reminds me of The New Vaudeville Band's "Finchley Central" - another new entry in this very chart....

[Robbie]

Have a listen to it Robbie, it's quirky, catchy, and so 1967. It perfectly embraces the era and the spirit of the time.

I meant to edit my first sentence to read "I'd not heard of 'Birds And Bees' by Warm Sounds until now, I've just listened to it on YouTube.". It's an interesting song and I can hear its appeal.

[MrTibbs]

Have a listen to it Robbie, it's quirky, catchy, and so 1967. It perfectly embraces the era and the spirit of the time.

[Robbie]

I've not heard of 'Birds And Bees' by Warm Sounds. I can see it's appeal, especially in the context of the original Summer Of Love.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

At last the sublime Birds And Bees by Warm Sounds gets a foothold in the chart, one of THE wistful summer sounds of 1967 !
Eight differences in chart positions between the BBC and Ultimate Charts this week.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 20th 1967. Enjoy !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 20th 1967								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
4	1	Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes					1	1	1	1	1	19050
3	2	Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas					2	2	2	2	2	18415
1	3	Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw					3	3	3	3	3	17780
6	4	Pictures Of Lily - The Who					4	4	5	4	4	16895
2	5	Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra					5	5	6	5	5	16260
5	6	The Boat That I Row - Lulu					6	6	4	8	6	16175
19	7	Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks					7	7	7	6	9	15170
9	8	Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners					8	8	8	7	8	14705
8	9	Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones					9	9	9	9	7	14140
10	10	A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees					10	11	10	11	11	12950
18	11	Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys					11	12	11	12	12	12315
7	12	Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					12	10	14	14	10	11935
11	13	I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move					14	14	13	13	13	11230
22	14	The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					13	13	15	10	15	11060
16	15	Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck					15	18	12	15	14	10395
20	16	New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees					16	16	17	19	16	8975
13	17	Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck					18	20	16	17	21	8200
12	18	Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann					17	17	21	16	18	7905
21	19	Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley					19	15	22	21	17	7640
14	20	Happy Together - The Turtles					20	19	19	22	19	7320
NEW	21	The Happening - The Supremes					21	22	18	20	23	6830
15	22	I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens					23	25	20	25	20	5485
25	23	Casino Royale - Herb Alpert					22	23	23	18		4900
NEW	24	Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band					24	21	29	23	25	3810
27	25	If I Were A Rich Man - Topol					25	27	24	28	26	3275
17	26	Bernadette - The Four Tops					26		25	27	24	2495
28	27	The First Cut Is The Deepest - P. P. Arnold					27	24		24	30	2185
23	28	Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows					29	30	26	29	29	1820
NEW	29	Roses Of Picardy - Vince Hill					28	29	28	26		1650
NEW	30	Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds					30	26			27	1340
		This Is My Song - Harry Secombe							27		28	1255
		Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd									22	765
		Music To Watch Girls By - Andy Williams						28				600
		Walking In The Rain - The Walker Brothers							30	30		350

[MrTibbs]

I have to agree 100% that P. P. Arnold's First Cut should have been a massive hit, as it was a stunning single and well ahead of its time. But then so was the follow up, The Time Has Come, (watch the Beat Club video on You Tube) which also should have reached the upper echelons of the chart. In a similar vein a year later later in 1968 Madeleine Bell was also robbed of a hit with I'm Gonna Make You Love Me another powerful vocal and strong single.

[Graham76man]

It's rather sad that PP Arnold failed to make number one, but Rod Stewart did with that song.
There's a line in the Kinks song "Terry meets Julie" that has become famous as a myth. The story is that it's about Terrence Stamp and Julie Christie. However years later one of the Kinks said it was about his brother and girlfriend and not the film stars!

[MrTibbs]

Glad you continue to enjoy ACA and thanks for 'liking' the thread. Alan sometimes mentioned ties on POTP and sometimes didn't which led to confusion at times.

[ACA]

The only difference in my notes from this day is that the Turtles were played or mentioned at 15 and Cat Stevens at 14. But still I wasn't aware of the joint positions at that time, so it must have been the presenters choice (Alan Freeman).

Glad to see you proceed with your excellent work! Don't give up, it's worthwhile!

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Another week with the BBC chart riddled with ties and fourteen differences in chart positions between the BBC and Ultimate Charts between positions 11 and 30.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 13th 1967 for your pleasure.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 13th 1967								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra					2	3	2	3	2	18115
6	3	Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas					3	2	4	2	3	17830
13	4	Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes					4	4	3	4	4	17395
10	5	The Boat That I Row - Lulu					5	6	5	5	6	16225
15	6	Pictures Of Lily - The Who					6	7	6	9	5	15460
4	7	Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					7	5	9	8	7	15040
8	8	Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones					8	10	7	6	8	14655
9	9	Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners					9	11	8	7	11	13850
3	10	A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees					10=	9	10	10	10	13535
7	11	I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move					10=	8	11	11	9	13470
5	12	Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann					12	12	12	12	12	12065
12	13	Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck					13=	15	14	14	15	10510
14	14	Happy Together - The Turtles					13=	14	15	13	16	10475
11	15	I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens					13=	13	16	16	13	10380
17	16	Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck					16	18	13	15	14	10145
16	17	Bernadette - The Four Tops					17	16	17	17	18	9005
NEW	18	Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys					18	20	18	18	19	7770
NEW	19	Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks					21	17	19	20	29	7070
27	20	New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees					19	21	21	28	17	5990
24	21	Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley					20	19	26	22	21	5400
NEW	22	The Wind Cries Mary - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					22	24	25	19	27	4440
23	23	Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows					24	28	20	26	25	4360
19	24	This Is My Song - Harry Secombe					23		22	21	23	3930
NEW	25	Casino Royale - Herb Alpert					26=	27	23	23		3600
18	26	It's All Over - Cliff Richard					25	23	28	27	22	3515
30	27	If I Were A Rich Man - Topol					28=	29	24	30	28	2505
NEW	28	The First Cut Is The Deepest - P.P. Arnold					30	22		25		2400
20	29	Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd					26=	29		24	20	2035
21	30	Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas					28=		27	29	24	1795
		Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds						25				1200
		Finchley Central - The New Vaudeville Band						26				1000
		I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith							29			500
		Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin									26	425
		The Happening - The Supremes							30			250
		Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set									30	85

[MrTibbs]

The three way tie finally epitomised and laid bare just how inadequate the BBC's system of averaging out was. If they had adopted a more robust and consistent approach it shouldn't have happened as the potential for such a tie should surely have been foreseen.

[Splodj]

An interesting point to ponder is that (almost certainly) the infamous 3-way tie would not have happened if Disc had stayed in the game.

[Graham76man]

An early example of a Radio Station not basing what they play based on what people are buying. This became more common when commercial radio started. Many of them wouldn't play some chart hits and when Punk came along the charts were a no go area for Radio Stations. How many stations today will use the Official top 40 as A grade playlist material?

[Graham76man]

But there are three easy ways to sort out joint positions. 1: Most weeks in chart. 2: Alphabetical. 3: based on last week positions highest first. The BBC could have also just phoned a one shop up at random and ask the owner which of the records sold more in their shop.
But of course none of this mattered to the BBC till the number one became compromised and they gave up on the system after that.

[Robbie]

Yeah some weeks the BBC and The Ultimate Averaged Charts only differ by a handful of positions plus tie breaking. Some weeks there are more differences than others some quite markedly.
When we get to March 1960 to March1962 you will see a lot more differences due to the factoring in of the RM and RR charts which the BBC didn't include at that time. So we might potentially see a greatly different averaged chart for that period.

What I like about the Ultimate Averaged Chart is that it shows that the concept behind the compilation of the Pick Of The Pops chart was sound. It gave a broad overview of what was popular in the charts of the 1960s. However the simplicity of the chart compilation method also left the POTP chart open to problems such as joint postions which your averaged chart doesn't have. The BBC chart didn't have a satisfactory method of dealing with joint positions while the Ultimate Averaged chart does.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah some weeks the BBC and The Ultimate Averaged Charts only differ by a handful of positions plus tie breaking. Some weeks there are more differences than others some quite markedly.
When we get to March 1960 to March1962 you will see a lot more differences due to the factoring in of the RM and RR charts which the BBC didn't include at that time. So we might potentially see a greatly different averaged chart for that period.

[Metalweb]

Despite all the classic singles they came out with in later decades I still think the chilling NYMD1941 is the Bee Gees' most memorable composition (and the obvious inspiration for Bowie's Space Oddity a couple of years later).

It was inspired by the recent Aberfan disaster ("Mr Jones...") and presumably the rather random title (as Graham pointed out earlier, there was no mining disaster in New York in '41) was to avoid accusations of "cashing in" on the tragedy...

[Splodj]

Those of us who listened to Radio London were in a different time warp. The Bee Gees had entered their chart at 21 a full month before, on 6-Apr. On 12-May they played the entire Sgt Pepper album. On 14-May 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' entered their chart at 29, after having been played since late April.

[Graham76man]

That was the Bee Gees second single. The first "Spicks and Specks" only reached reached 66 in March of 1967 so would not have made the top 30.
Lulu's track was of course very popular with the Pirate Radio stations due to the boat reference.
Topol - If I was A Rich Man, was in entirely due to the West End production of the show Fiddler On The Roof that year. It first hit the stage in the USA in 1964, so it took some time to get a production in the UK. I suspect there was a bias still in the charts towards London shops, which might have accounted for it's place in these charts, but it's a catchy tune and so would sell anyway. Most people these days will know it from the film of the same name. But the film wasn't released until 1971 so had no effect here.

There's no footage of Frank and Nancy actually singing Somethin' Stupid. One of the few late 60's number one not to have film of the performance. Some people have cobbled together on YouTube footage of them singing together and put the track over it, but it's not them actually singing the song!

[Robbie]

Pink Floyd made their debut a few weeks ago and now it's the turn of the Bee Gees.

[Splodj]

Ultimate and BBC very close. Just 14/15 swapped, 25 untied and 28/29 swapped.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 6th 1967. Enjoy !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 6th 1967								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra					2	2	2	2	2	18415
3	3	A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees					3	3	5	3	4	17195
5	4	Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					4	5	4	4	3	17030
4	5	Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann					5	6	3	5	7	16640
11	6	Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas					6	4	6	6	6	16275
10	7	I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move					7	7	9	7	5	14910
12	8	Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones					8	8	8	8	9	14520
9	9	Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners					9	9	7	9	13	14130
16	10	The Boat That I Row - Lulu					10	10	10	10	10	13335
7	11	I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens					11	11	11	14	8	12655
6	12	Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck					12	14	13	11	11	11600
26	13	Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes					13	13	14	13	15	11010
14	14	Happy Together - The Turtles					15	16	12	15	14	10795
24	15	Pictures Of Lily - The Who					14	12	16	12	16	10725
8	16	Bernadette - The Four Tops					16	15	15	16	12	10315
20	17	Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck					17	17	17	19	17	8690
15	18	It's All Over - Cliff Richard					18	18	18	21	18	7955
13	19	This Is My Song - Harry Secombe					19	19	19	18	20	7635
21	20	Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd					20	23	21	17	19	6520
22	21	Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas					21	24	20	20	21	6100
17	22	I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith					22	21	22	24	23	5630
25	23	Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows					23	25	23	26	24	4295
NEW	24	Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley					24	20		23	29	3170
19	25	Because I Love You - Georgie Fame					25=	28	25	25	26	3125
18	26	Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set					25=	30	24	28	22	3015
NEW	27	New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees					27	26		22	27	2240
30	28	Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin					29	22			30	1885
23	29	Edelweiss - Vince Hill					28		26		25	1760
NEW	30	If I Were A Rich Man - Topol					30		27	27		1400
		Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds						27				800
		Al Capone - Prince Buster							28			750
		Get Me To The World On Time - The Electric Prunes						28				600
		Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd							30		28	505
		Oh How I Miss You - The Bachelors							29			500
		Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys								29		200
		Casino Royale - Herb Alpert								30		100

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 29th 1967. Enjoy !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 29th 1967								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra					2	2	2	2	2	18415
3	3	A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees					3	3	3	3	3	17780
4	4	Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann					4	4	4	4	4	17145
7	5	Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					5	5	5	6	5	16410
5	6	Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck					6	6	7	5	8	15555
10	7	I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens					7	8	6	7	6	15375
9	8	Bernadette - The Four Tops					8	7	10	8	10	14135
12	9	Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners					10	9	8	10	11	13950
17	10	I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move					9	11	9	9	7	13740
18	11	Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas					11	10	12	11	9	12820
19	12	Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones					12	13	11	12	13	12030
6	13	This Is My Song - Harry Secombe					14	12	15	13	14	11045
14	14	Happy Together - The Turtles					13	14	14	14	12	10965
8	15	It's All Over - Cliff Richard					15	16	13	15	15	10460
28	16	The Boat That I Row - Lulu					16	15	16	16	16	9725
13	17	I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith					17	17	18	18	17	8540
11	18	Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set					18	18	19	21	18	7705
15	19	Because I Love You - Georgie Fame					19	19	20	17	21	7400
24	20	Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck					20	23	17	19	24	6895
22	21	Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd					21	21	23	22	19	5920
23	22	Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas					22	22	22	20	22	5915
16	23	Edelweiss - Vince Hill					23	29	21	23	20	4635
NEW	24	Pictures Of Lily - The Who					25	19	28	24		3850
NEW	25	Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows					24	25	25	25	26	3725
NEW	26	Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes					26	24	26	28	29	3120
26	27	Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd					27		24		23	2430
21	28	Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles					29		27	26		1500
30	29	Al Capone - Prince Buster					28	28	30		25	1360
NEW	30	Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin					30	27		27		1200
		Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley						26				1000
		Georgy Girl - The Seekers						30		30	27	640
		Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich							29			500
		Oh How I Miss You - The Bachelors								29	30	285
		Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican									28	255

[Graham76man]

As I predicted Jeff Beck enters all the top 30 without selling a single copy. Only after these charts were published did Beck start to sell, but only at 79. The other version by The Attack was the one in the actual chart. But as that video I posted in a previous post shows when somebody like Don Arden wanted a record in the chart it was. He was not the only one Joe Meek was well into chart hyping. Meek bought 10 to 20 in each shop and they would chart, he would then tell the DJ's it's charted and they would do the rest to sell the record. 100 copies would get you up the chart. At least 60 shops were in London.