The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

Meantime though I need another project to get my teeth into. Any ideas guys let me know.

A Top 50 for the period when MM, Disc and RR had one. This would provide a more robust lower end for the Top 30 too.

[kjell]

Must admit I’m downloading them Brian. When you’ll be continuing doing the RM dealers charts from 55 Oct 8 I’m looking forward to doing chartruns of them too. Guess I’m more interested in the music of the 50’s and 60’s than the average chart fan, may have something to do with my reaching thirteen in 58.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

A Top 50 for the period when MM, Disc and RR had one. This would provide a more robust lower end for the Top 30 too.

I very much like that idea too, Splodj. So if Brian does a RM Top 50 from dealer charts up to 1961 (I think that's when they stopped publishing them), then we'll have that plus a RR Top 50 from March 1960 to Feb 1969, then BMRB. Plus a MM Top 50 from Sept 1962 to April 1967, and MM again from Sep 1969 to Mar or May 1971, and a Disc Top 50 from April 1966 to April 1967. Putting all those together, we'd at least have a full Top 50 for all of the 60s, a side by side comparison, whether or not an average is calculated.

Far out groovy...

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 15th 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 15th 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					1	2	1	2	1	5595
2	2	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					3	1	2	6	2	5415
7	3	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	3	3	1	3	5400
4	4	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					4=	4	6	3	5	5060
6	5	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					4=	5	4	5	4	5025
3	6	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis					6	6	5	4	6	4855
5	7	Move It - Cliff Richard *					7	7	7	7	7	4560
10	8	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					8=	8	9	10	8	4265
8	9	King Creole - Elvis Presley					8=	10	8	8	9	4180
11	10	My True Love - Jack Scott					10	9	15	9	10	3970
12	11	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					11=	11	12	11	14	3595
9	12	Born Too Late - The Poni-Tails					11=	12	10	14	12	3580
20	13	Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como					13	13	11	13	13	3470
NEW	14	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					14	20	16	12	11	3050
13	15	Western Movies - The Olympics					16=	18	13	20	18	2515
14	16	Poor Little Fool - Ricky Nelson					15	17	19	16	20	2470
NEW	17	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					18=	21	18	18	15	2455
23	18	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					18=	24	14	17	16	2340
18	19	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands					16	14	17		17	2295
15	20	Volare - Dean Martin					18=	15		15		1680
21	21	Summertime Blues - Eddie Cochran						23	20	19		1275
19	22	Moon Talk - Perry Como						18				845
NEW	23	It's So Easy - The Crickets									19	720
24	24	Volare - Domenico Modugno						22				585
25	25	I'll Get By - Connie Francis						25				390
16	26	Mad Passionate Love - Bernard Bresslaw						26				325
17	27	When - The Kalin Twins						27				260
NEW	28	Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan						28				195
NEW	29	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra						29				130
28	30	Rockin' Robin - Bobby Day						30				65
		Volare - Marino Marini						16
22		Patricia - Perez Prado
26		Return To Me - Dean Martin
27		If Dreams Came True - Pat Boone
29		Rebel Rouser - Duane Eddy
		* The BBC manuscript lists Cliff at 6= but this is clearly either a typing error or calculation error as it is clearly #7

[kjell]

Yeah Robin, but very much happened on the musical scene 61-64 when the old and the new music were competing. To be able to delve into both kinds of pop one should really have had a weekly top 100 these years.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 22nd 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 22nd 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					1	2	1	1	1	5635
2	2	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					2	1	2	2	2	5575
1	3	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					3	3	3	3	3	5320
5	4	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					4	4	4	6	5	4990
14	5	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					5	6	7	4	4	4925
8	6	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					7	5	6	8	6	4735
4	7	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					6	7	5	5	8	4630
7	8	Move It - Cliff Richard					8	8	9	7	7	4445
6	9	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis					9	9	8	9	9	4205
13	10	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					10	11	11	10	11	3840
9	11	King Creole - Elvis Presley					11	12	10	14	12	3580
11	12	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					12	10	12	13	16	3460
10	13	My True Love - Jack Scott					13	15	15	12	10	3460
NEW	14	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					14	13	13	16	15	3180
17	15	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					15	16	17	11	14	3145
18	16	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson (A)					16	14	16	17	13	3120
NEW	17	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					18	23	19	15	17	2300
25	18	I'll Get By / Fallin' - Connie Francis					19		20	18	19	2295
19	19	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands					17	16	14		18	2180
15	20	Western Movies - The Olympics						20	18		20	1700
12	21	Born Too Late - The Poni-Tails					20	18		19		1325
RE	22	Susie Darlin' - Robin Luke						23		20		960
NEW	23	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio						20				715
21	24	Summertime Blues - Eddie Cochran						25				390
28	25	Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan						26				325
NEW	26	I Got A Feeling - Ricky Nelson (B)						27				260
RE	27	More Than Ever - Robert Earl						28				195
20	28	Volare - Dean Martin						30				65
24	28	Volare - Domenico Modugno						30				65
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						29
		I'll Get By - Connie Francis						19
		Fallin' - Connie Francis						22
16		Poor Little Fool - Ricky Nelson
22		Moon Talk - Perry Como
23		It's So Easy - The Crickets
26		Mad Passionate Love - Bernard Bresslaw
27		When - The Kalin Twins
29		Mr Success - Frank Sinatra
30		Rockin' Robin - Bobby Day

[MrTibbs]

It's an interesting week aside from #1 being 'a braw bricht moonlicht nicht', there's a tongue twister for you ! . The translation would be 'it's a beautiful night with the moon shining brightly in the sky'.

Two interesting new entries this week and both the same song although you wouldn't think that on first hearing.. Lonnie Donegan's best single in over a year is a skiffle version of the folk song Tom Dooley and it's gonna be a monster, whereas The Kingston's Trio's version sticks to the traditional folk arrangement and is so different to Lonnie's version that it's originality shines though in it's own right making it just as enjoyable. It will be big too.

[kingofskiffle]

I wonder how many bought both as they really are different?

Lonnie’s Skiffle Party is a bit of a throw back to the medley types of the early 50’s - Russ Conway and Mrs Mills for example spring to mind here. I wonder if the EP format killed the medley single? Unlikely, as people like Max Miller had huge success for years to come with albums of medleys.

[Splodj]

Hoots Mon there's a galoot, an Odd Mon Oot!

[MrTibbs]

I wonder how many bought both as they really are different?

Lonnie’s Skiffle Party is a bit of a throw back to the medley types of the early 50’s - Russ Conway and Mrs Mills for example spring to mind here. I wonder if the EP format killed the medley single? Unlikely, as people like Max Miller had huge success for years to come with albums of medleys.

'Sing-A-Long-A-Max', yeah my mother was a great fan of them and they were often played when they had a family party everyone joining in and singing along not always in tune. What a traumatic memory

[MrTibbs]

Hoots Mon there's a galoot, an Odd Mon Oot!

If I remember correctly they were the resident group on Oh Boy on ITV.

[Splodj]

Yes and being on that each week must have given them a lot of exposure.

But the galoot I was referring to was the out of kilter NME.

[MrTibbs]

Witty Witty Witty Splodj Yip they are. Again.

[MrTibbs]

So what I am thinking is this. As in '56 '57 and 58' I did a bridged chart for MM on the 26th December 1959 and yet again this seems to fit in well.

So do you think there is good reason for me to return to the year end UAC charts '60 to '68 where a paper didn't compile a chart and compile a bridged chart for those years too to maintain consistency and give a more rounded robust year end UAC chart ?

Of course if I do I will amend the ones on here.

[Metalweb]

Two interesting new entries this week and both the same song although you wouldn't think that on first hearing.. Lonnie Donegan's best single in over a year is a skiffle version of the folk song Tom Dooley and it's gonna be a monster, whereas The Kingston's Trio's version sticks to the traditional folk arrangement and is so different to Lonnie's version that it's originality shines though in it's own right making it just as enjoyable. It will be big too.

'Tom Dooley' must have been one of the first 'death discs' to chart here...

'Endless Sleep' was a hit earlier in '58 but nobody actually dies in that one, whereas 'Tom Dooley' is a trad murder ballad.

How controversial would this have been considered back in '58?

Or was it only when the teenage death discs started arriving en masse that concerns started to be raised!

[braindeadpj]

Yes, I think you could update the year end charts for those with papers that had 'frozen' weeks. However rather than amend perhaps you can post the new versions at the end here (and perhaps add a link from the older versions to the newer ones).
Of course, if you'd rather not have two versions of the same week's charts in the thread which I can completely understand, then I'd suggest posting a link (or even just a notice with the page numbers) at the end of the thread to the revised charts to make it easier for those who have been following the thread since the beginning to find them. We can of course hunt for them if its too much trouble.... Just let us know when you update.

[braindeadpj]

Looking at the 15th November chart, and the BBC Chart original files, it looks like you have mixed up the 2 Ricky Nelson records as Someday is at 15 and Poor Little Fool at 18.

[MrTibbs]

Looking at the 15th November chart, and the BBC Chart original files, it looks like you have mixed up the 2 Ricky Nelson records as Someday is at 15 and Poor Little Fool at 18.

I've checked both titles for 15th November David. All sets of individual chart positions on the music papers for both are correct and therefore the points and positions are correct too so both titles are correctly placed on the UAC. Was worth checking though in case there had been a mix up.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 29th 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 29th 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					1	1	1	1	1	5700
5	2	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					2=	3	3	2	2	5420
2	3	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					2=	2	2	3	3	5410
4	4	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					4	4	4	4	6	5010
14	5	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					5=	6	6	6	4	4870
3	6	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					5=	7	5	5	5	4810
7	7	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					8	5	9	9	8	4500
6	8	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					7	8	7	7	7	4495
10	9	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					9	9	8	8	11	4125
17	10	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					10	14	10	13	10	3610
15	11	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					11=	15	15	10	9	3600
8	12	Move It - Cliff Richard					13	10	13	12	15	3535
9	13	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis					11=	13	12	11	13	3525
16	14	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson (A)					14	12	14	18	12	3320
12	15	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					15	11	19	15	14	3260
23	16	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					16	17	11	17	17	2810
11	17	King Creole - Elvis Presley					17=	20	16	14	19	2490
13	18	My True Love - Jack Scott					17=	16		16	16	2475
18	19	Fallin' / I'll Get By - Connie Francis						20		19	20	1855
19	20	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands					19	22	17		18	1715
24	21	Summertime Blues - Eddie Cochran					20	18	18			1170
22	22	Susie' Darlin - Robin Luke							20	20		715
25	23	Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan						23				520
RE	24	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte						25				390
21	25	Born Too Late - The Poni-Tails						26				325
28	26	Volare - Dean Martin						27				260
27	27	More Than Ever - Robert Earl						28				195
RE	27	Poor Little Fool - Ricky Nelson						28				195
NEW	29	More Party Pops - Russ Conway						30				65
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						19
		I'll Get By - Connie Francis						24
20		Western Movies - The Olympics
26		I Got A Feeling - Ricky Nelson (B)
28		Volare - Domenico Modugno

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

So what I am thinking is this. As in '56 '57 and 58' I did a bridged chart for MM on the 26th December 1959 and yet again this seems to fit in well.

So do you think there is good reason for me to return to the year end UAC charts '60 to '68 where a paper didn't compile a chart and compile a bridged chart for those years too to maintain consistency and give a more rounded robust year end UAC chart ?

Of course if I do I will amend the ones on here.

I think that is a most fab idea Brian. The overriding question should always be, which option would be closest to the truth? To freeze a chart, skip a chart, or compile a bridged chart? I think a bridged chart would be the best option, closest to the truth.

However, you don't necessarily have to amend the existing '60 to '68 charts, you could leave them as they are and just add the revised bridged UAC charts into the same posts, letting us all see how they compare. And also copy both charts for each Christmas into a new post, so we don't have to scroll back to find them. Kool n groovy !!

[Splodj]

I presume there was no BBC chart for 26-Dec-58 because the 27-Dec POTP was a best of the year show. When TOTP came along they did not take a break when the year end shows for TOTP and POTP were on different weeks, but at that time there was only POTP.

[MrTibbs]

I think that is a most fab idea Brian. The overriding question should always be, which option would be closest to the truth? To freeze a chart, skip a chart, or compile a bridged chart? I think a bridged chart would be the best option, closest to the truth.

However, you don't necessarily have to amend the existing '60 to '68 charts, you could leave them as they are and just add the revised bridged UAC charts into the same posts, letting us all see how they compare. And also copy both charts for each Christmas into a new post, so we don't have to scroll back to find them. Kool n groovy !!

Yeah there seems to be a strong consensus to proceed with this. I agree too that the four years of the 50's do appear to indicate a bridging chart works better than a missing chart.
So I will get to work on this.
Like you and some of the other guys suggest Robin I won't go back and amend the originals as its fair comment a lot of scrolling would be involved for comparisons. So once 1959 is posted at the end of the thread I will re post each original and beneath it post the bridged chart so all are in the same place for comparison to make it much more user friendly.

I miss compiling charts already

[MrTibbs]

I presume there was no BBC chart for 26-Dec-58 because the 27-Dec POTP was a best of the year show. When TOTP came along they did not take a break when the year end shows for TOTP and POTP were on different weeks, but at that time there was only POTP.

You are correct Splodj there was no BBC chart for that week.

[Splodj]

Buddy Holly's 'Heartbeat' released on 21-Nov-58. Because of the TV show, a 50s song most people today would recognise.

[braindeadpj]

On the 22nd November Chart, the BBC made a couple of errors as Malcolm Vaughan is actually joint 6 (5+6+8+6 =25) with Marino Marini (7+5+5+8 =25) and The Olympics should be joint 20 (20+18+21+20 =79) with The Poni-Tails (18+21+19+21 =79)