The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Oops with all the above going on I forgot all about today's chart to post, here it is now.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 20th 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 20th 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1	2	1	5660
1	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	3	1	2	5525
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	3	2	3	3	5345
5	4	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					4	6	4	5	4	4960
8	5	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6=	7	6	7	5	4770
4	6	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					5	5	5	6	8	4720
7	7	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					8	4	8	8	7	4690
6	8	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					6=	8	7	4	6	4675
10	9	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					9	9	12	10	11	3945
12	10	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					10=	12	11	11	9	3855
15	11	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					10=	11	10	12	10	3845
9	12	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					10=	13	9	9	12	3740
20	13	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte					13	10	13	13	14	3555
13	14	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					14	14	14	16	15	3090
14	15	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					16	20	15	14	19	2515
11	16	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					15	15	17		13	2470
28	17	The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte					17	18	16		17	2060
21	18	King Creole - Elvis Presley					18	22	18		16	1810
24	19	More Party Pops - Russ Conway						16			20	1635
19	20	Real Love - Ruby Murray					19=	18		17		1405
NEW	21	Heartbeat - Buddy Holly					19=		20	15		915
16	22	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis						25		20		830
NEW	23	Cha Cha Momma Brown - Martinas and His Orchestra									18	780
17	24	Move It - Cliff Richard						24	19			755
18	25	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands						21				650
NEW	26	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears						30		18		585
27	27	Fallin' - Connie Francis						23				520
22	28	Susie Darlin' - Robin Luke								19		480
NEW	29	Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis						25				390
23	29	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra						25				390
		As I Love You - Shirley Bassey						28				195
		Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						28				195
25		Summertime Blues - Eddie Cochran
26		Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan
29		My True Love - Jack Scott
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						17

[braindeadpj]

If you have the time while compiling the dealer returns, it may be worth looking at regions too - of course you might find the majority of the returns are London, but if there are enough from elsewhere, you may be able to identify some regional hits (those that hit "big" in a specifric region or even more localized such as town?) and not elsewhere - or alternatively those that made the top 20 overall and the top 5 or higher in one region). Of course they may add too much additional work as its going to be pretty intensive work as it is (as Splodj highlights above!).

[MrTibbs]

My one nagging doubt I can't shake though is just how popular these old RM Charts will be. It will be an enormous amount of work and time spent for possibly just a handful of interested parties. Too far back for most.

[braindeadpj]

Brian,
wasn't the original thread pretty popular? I expect you'd get at least the same number in a new thread probably many more after the UAC thread. I certainly think its worth it and I expect most (all?) of the people still on this thread would agree.

[Splodj]

Conway Twitty number one.

In 1999 John Peel had a 'Peelennium' feature on his show where each week he selected 4 records for each year since 1900. There were very few number ones, as you can imagine, but 'Its Only Make Believe' was one of the four he selected for 1958.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelennium

[braindeadpj]

I just noticed that Disc has 2 no.18s and a 19 this week (as well as 20). Checking Lonnie's 70 Year's, the Martinas and His Orchestra may be in error - or should that be in the RM column as I don't see an 18 there? This would also change its position in the UAC if so (it would be on 780 points and so at 23?

[MrTibbs]

Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.

[Robbie]

Looking at wikipedia I see that 'It's Only Make Believe' is yet another record that started life as a B-side. The original A side in the US was a song called 'I'll Try'. A station in Ohio picked up on playing 'It's Only Make Believe' rather than 'I'll Try' which had been a total flop. This inspired the label to flip sides. In the UK the label chose 'It's Only Make Believe' as the A side off the back of its US success.

[kjell]

The RM concept of MrTibbs will disclose all the hits Oct 55 - Mar 61. Whether they were mainly regional or national won’t produce unknown hits. Trying to split the national RM into regions will mean a massive amount of work that will produce no new hits and be of little value for only a few. What’s really important is the concept MrTibbs posted yesterday morning at 09.29. What he finds there may also produce an extended LP chart as a byproduct.

[Splodj]

I agree about not bothering with location, but am still mystified by this idea that an extended LP chart could be produced. The RMs I have seen from that period do not show the LP returns from individual stores.

[kjell]

There were LPs in the RM dealers charts, but with variations in numbers thru’ the years. RM must have gotten the basis for their LP chart from them, and I guess they had such a short chart to be able to keep the number of entries steady. However, that means they missed those record that were below the top 5. To my opinion it would have been more hit productive to let the LP chart vary.

[Splodj]

There were LPs in the RM dealers charts

After they started an LP chart?

[kingofskiffle]

After they started an LP chart?

Hits That Missed list LP's from as far back as the first dealers chart, so I assume they had some even then. Enough for a top 5? Maybe not... But they (and EPs) were listed from 1954.

[Splodj]

I can understand why LPs were included up to July 1956, but not afterwards - apart from the odd error.

[MrTibbs]

Yip Martinas was at 18 in RM. Was placed in wrong column. I'm working today David so will fix this tonight and amend the above chart.

I have amended the chart for 20th December above as Martinas was erroneously placed at #18 in Disc when it should have been RM.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 27th 1958

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 27th 1958								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					65	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1		1	4500
2	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	2		2	4350
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	3	2		3	4225
4	4	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					4	6	4		4	3920
7	5	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					5	4	5		6	3905
6	6	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					7	4	7		8	3735
8	7	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					9	9	8		5	3565
5	8	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6	7	5		9	3530
11	9	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					8	8	9		7	3485
10	10	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					10	10	10		11	3090
13	11	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte					11	12	15		10	2895
9	12	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					12	11	12		14	2795
16	13	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Ricky Nelson					13	13	14		13	2675
14	14	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					17	15	13		12	2630
12	15	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					14	14	11		15	2565
19	16	More Party Pops - Johnny Mathis					15	18	15		16	2145
15	17	Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers					19	19	17		20	1790
24	18	Move It - Cliff Richard						21			17	1490
29	19	Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis					16	17				910
17	20	The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte						24	18			780
29	21	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra					18				18	780
25	22	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You - Jodie Sands									19	720
20	23	Real Love - Ruby Murray						20				715
26	24	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears						25	18			715
NEW	25	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey						22				585
NEW	26	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis						23				520
22	27	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis						28	20			470
NEW	28	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						26				325
NEW	29	As I Love You - Shirley Bassey						27				260
18	30	King Creole - Elvis Presley					20	29				130
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						15
		Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper						30				65
21		Heartbeat - Buddy Holly
27		Fallin' - Connie Francis
23		Cha Cha Momma Brown - Martinas and His Orchestra
28		Susie Darlin' - Robin Luke
		* MM and Disc did not compile a chart this week so an average position was taken of likely chart position for this non compiled week by taking a mid point position between the chart for 20th December 1958 and the chart for 3rd January 1959 for MM in order to compile the Ultimate Averaged Chart. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC.
		** Although the BBC compiled a chart this week it did not say how this was done. I assume it used only the NME and RM chart.

[MrTibbs]

Yet again you will see a bridging chart for MM in the above chart taking an average from the weeks of 20th December and 3rd January 1958 to give a mid point. Again I think it fits in well. As Disc did not compile a chart for two weeks it was not possible to compile a bridging chart for them as their was no chart available for 3rd January.

[Splodj]

Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.

[Robbie]

Looking at the Disc issues for 27 December 1958 and 3 January 1959 I notice the magazine claims that the charts had been held back as due to the Christmas holidays and the ensuring change in printing schedules the newspaper stated it was unable to give a completely accurate Top 20 chart for either week and so were holding back the charts for those two weeks. Looking at the Disc chart dated 10 January 1959 (which is marked as sales week ending 3 January 1959) not much changed in those three weeks. It makes me wonder if that particular chart included dealer returns spread over three weeks.

[braindeadpj]

There is no way that Elvis could be at 20 in the BBC Chart if they only used NME and RM. I suspect they used the frozen weeks.

[braindeadpj]

OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.

[MrTibbs]

Shirley Bassey must have thought 'As I Love You' had flopped when 'Kiss Me' was released.

The sentimental 'B' side of As I Love You, Hands Across The Sea, was hugely popular on Two Way Family Favourites for years.

[MrTibbs]

OK There is actually no way for the BBC chart to come out as it is. I've tried including the frozen charts, excluding 1 or other of the 2 frozen charts, excluding both of the frozen charts, but nothing comes out close to what they have, so it's a bit of a mystery.

Yip, I agree, I don't know how they compiled that chart, that week.

[Splodj]

Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.