The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Possibly 'Disc' gave the BBC a chart that week. It could have missed the earlier-than-usual Christmas deadline to be printed, and subsequently they decided it was not accurate enough anyway.

I had thought that POTP did not need chart places for that week as it did a review of the year. However I see the playlist included risers 'Tea For Two' and 'The Day The Rains Came' - so maybe they did.

That's possible. In the summer of 1959 during the printers strike a couple of the music papers did not publish, RM and Disc but continued to submit their weekly charts to the BBC for inclusion in the BBC chart. Given what Robbie said above and David's analysis of that BBC chart it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

And .. so onto and into 1959, the final year of the UAC to complete the set 1955 to 1969.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 3rd 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 3rd 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1		1	4800
2	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	2		2	4640
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	4	3		3	4405
5	4	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					4	3	4		6	4275
4	5	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					5	5	5		4	4220
8	6	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6	7	6		5	3985
9	7	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					7	6	7		9	3795
6	8	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					8	8	8		7	3740
7	9	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					9	9	9		8	3580
16	10	More Party Pops - Russ Conway					10	10	10		10	3360
10	11	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					11	11	11		11	3200
13	12	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					12	12	12		13	2980
12	13	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					13	13	14		12	2915
11	14	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte					14	15	18		14	2545
14	15	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini					16	19	13		16	2250
25	16	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey					17	17	19		20	2010
15	17	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					15	24	15		15	1885
20	18	The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte						21			19	1470
NEW	19	Cannonball - Duane Eddy						25			17	1290
24	20	To Know You Is To Love You - The Teddy Bears					18	20	16			1200
NEW	21	Baby Face - Little Richard					19	16				1125
26	22	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis						17				1050
RE	23	Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan									18	780
30	24	King Creole - Elvis Presley						22				675
NEW	25	My Ukelele - Max Bygraves						23				600
21	26	Mr Success - Frank Sinatra					20	26				375
27	27	Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis							17			350
28	28	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						27				300
RE	29	Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves							20			275
18	30	Move It - Cliff Richard						28				225
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						14
19		Winter Wonderland - Johnny Mathis						29				150
23		Real Love - Ruby Murray						30				75
17		Bird Dog - The Everly Brothers
22		Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Jodie Sands
29		As I Love You - Shirley Bassey
		* Disc did not compile a chart again this week. As Disc did not compile a chart for 3rd January as well as 27th December it was not possible to take a reliable average for use in the UAC as their was no chart for the previous week to compare.

[Splodj]

it is therefore possible that Disc submitted the charts they were 'holding back' to the BBC.

To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

Good point, reverse engineer !!

Also, was there any other music paper anywhere on the planet that carried the Disc charts, maybe in the USA, which may have printed 1 or 2 of them for these skipped weeks?

Also, mathematically it is possible to create 2 bridged charts from 2 skipped weeks, you just calculate 2 equal distance chart position midpoints between the 2 known charts before and after, and rank those midpoints for each record on each midpoint chart. Noting that some new entries would not be included if those records hadn't been released yet, or hadn't yet appeared anywhere on the other music paper charts. Not 100% accurate, especially for records that might have/could have popped into the charts at a low position for just 1 or 2 weeks, but it can be done, it might be worth something, and might be better than skipping altogether.

[MrTibbs]

I think with one missed chart you can get away with bridging, especially at the year end when chart movement is considerably slower and more static. It does provide a reasonable, possible chart outcome between two chart positions which is then averaged with others that were compiled to balance out extreme outliers.

But to apply this to a second missed chart allows the likelihood of a greater degree of error to creep in by diluting possible chart positions even further over a three week period and I am keen to keep the UAC as accurate as it is possible to be.

I genuinely do consider every possibility carefully to try and deliver the best chart outcome in every circumstance.
I know my methodology, depth of chart at times etc, doesn't appeal to everybody and has been open to question and debate at times over the course of the thread. Some of these suggestions have indeed been useful though and I took these on board to incorporate along the way.

I put a lot of time into this project but it's not always easy.

[kingofskiffle]

I think your right. A single week you can do the stats and if your using two weeks you end up with too much guesswork. I feel one week works. You can do the bridging here reality easily. There is actually a lot of maths theory here that shows that gaps can be recreated from two items either side. So if you have item-gap-item you can find out what the gap is with reasonable certainly. When it becomes item-gap-gap2-item, finding out which is which out of gap or gap2 starts to be much more open to variation.

for example, in gap, how do we know Hoots Mon did not fall to 3 and then recover to 2 in gap2? Or do the reverse? So I feel that the maths backs up the approach of leaving this out, as MrTibbs has done.

[braindeadpj]

To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.

The problem is that it may be 2 missing charts for calculating the BBC Chart. It is possible that both MM and Disc provided an 'interim' chart for the BBC. Without knowing for sure it is difficult to reconstruct. We can theoretically construct a 3rd chart fron the sum of the RM and NME chart that would be necessary to account for the BBC chart, but this would then be a composite of whatever data the MM and Disc provided (assuming they did provide anything).

Incidently all different variants that I tried to compile the BBC chart last night had ties, whereas the BBC chart doesn't have ties. Coincidence or was someone tiebreaking?

[braindeadpj]

Again, there's something funky about the BBC Chart as there's no way that Frank Sinatra can be at 20 with the 3 charts as is.
However, except for the above, and A Certain Smile and Come Prima being switched, the 3 charts do fit perfectly.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 10th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 10th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1	1	1	6000
2	2	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					2	2	2	2	2	5800
3	3	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					3	3	3	3	3	5600
4	4	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					4	4	5	7	5	5195
5	5	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					5	7	8	4	4	5075
6	6	Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como					6	6	7	5	6	5015
7	7	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					7	5	4	8	8	4925
9	8	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					8	8	6	6	7	4790
20	9	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears					10=	10	11	12	11	4035
11	10	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					10=	12	12	11	9	4020
8	11	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					9	11	9	9	13	4010
21	12	Baby Face - Little Richard					12	9	10	20	10	3875
12	13	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					13	14	18	10	16	3340
13	14	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan					14	17	13	13	17	3060
16	15	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey					15	14	20		12	2690
19	16	Cannonball - Duane Eddy					16	23	14	19	14	2525
22	17	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis					17	14	19		18	2355
25	18	My Ukelele - Max Bygraves					19	19	15		19	2020
24	19	King Creole - Elvis Presley					20	26	17	18	20	1905
17	20	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis					17=	20	16	15		1840
10	21	More Party Pops - Russ Conway						21			15	1710
RE	22	Real Love - Ruby Murray						22		14		1355
RE	23	As I Love You - Shirley Bassey						25		16		1050
28	24	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						18				975
NEW	25	Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper						23				600
14	26	Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte								17		560
15	27	Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini						27				300
RE	28	Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan						28				225
NEW	29	Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin						29				150
NEW	30	The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton						30				75
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						13
18		The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte
23		Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan
27		Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis
26		Mr Success - Frank Sinatra
29		Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves
30		Move It - Cliff Richard

[kingofskiffle]

Fairly static chart again for the top few spots. And most of the Christmas ish ones vanish (Lonnie’s Skiffle Party for example)

[Splodj]

there's no way that Frank Sinatra can be at 20 with the 3 charts as is.

You are right, but they did put it there because POTP played it as 20. Looks to me more like a fix than an error!

Incidentally, Platters 'Smoke Gets In Your Eyes' was played as a new release.

[Robbie]

The presence of 'Mary's Boy Child' at number 17 on the Disc chart ws why I thought Disc may have included dealer returns from more than one week in their chart dated 10 January 1959. However looking at how other recordshave done on the Disc chart compared to other Charts for that week there's not much difference for most of the records though records like 'Baby Face' are out of sync with the other charts.

[kjell]

I’ve noticed that both my favourite reads, this thread and kingofskiffle’s «70 years of UK singles charts» share a delicate and claryfying colouring.

[MrTibbs]

Kjell it is knowing that guys like you and every other loyal follower of this thread enjoy it and follow every chart that has made all the work blood sweat and tears in compiling it worthwhile. I genuinely thank you all

[braindeadpj]

I just noticed that the NME stores has increased to 75 for 1959. Anymore increases planned this year?

[MrTibbs]

I just noticed that the NME stores has increased to 75 for 1959. Anymore increases planned this year?

No David that was the last store adjustment of the fifties for NME to maintain the gradual store increase into 1960. MM and Disc though will increase a bit later in the year and RM will remain the same.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 17th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 17th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	1	1	1	1	6000
7	2	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					2	2	2	2	5	5620
2	3	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					3	3	3	4	2	5620
9	4	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears					4	5	4	3	4	5365
3	5	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					5	4	5	7	3	5315
6	6	Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como (A)					6	8	6	5	7	4830
12	7	Baby Face - Little Richard					7=	7	10	8	6	4745
4	8	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					7=	6	8	10	9	4610
5	9	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					9	12	9	6	8	4355
8	10	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					10	10	7	9	10	4315
15	11	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey					11	9	11	12	11	4110
10	12	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					12	10	19	11	13	3755
17	13	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis					13	13	15	19	12	3370
25	14	Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper					14=	18	14	15	18	2820
23	15	As I Love You - Shirley Bassey					16	16	13	17	20	2795
18	16	My Ukelele - Max Bygraves					17	20	17	14	16	2755
NEW	17	Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters					14=	17	12		15	2485
16	18	Cannonball - Duane Eddy					18	22		16	14	2295
13	19	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson					19=	21		13	19	2190
11	20	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards					19=	15			17	2040
24	21	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						18		20		1415
29	22	Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin						24		18		1045
14	23	More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan						23	16			975
22	24	Real Love - Ruby Murray						26	18			700
NEW	25	You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon						24				525
28	26	Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan						27				300
20	27	A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis							20			275
NEW	28	I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone						28				225
30	29	The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton						29				150
RE	30	Heartbeat - Buddy Holly						30				75
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						13
19		King Creole - Elvis Presley
21		More Party Pops - Russ Conway
26		Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte
27		Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini
		* Again either the BBC compilation is wrong or a typing error is as the manuscript lists both TD and LR at 7= but the points don't correspond with this.

[MrTibbs]

Suddenly Jane Morgan takes off into the top three. I just didn't like Little Richard's Baby Face it just didn't seem to suit his rock'n'roll usual style.
After the festive break though the chart is now settling down.

[brian05]

RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.

[MrTibbs]

RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.

Brian I totally agree it was an injustice when Nick Berry could score a major hit with this in a version that was practically a carbon copy and Buddy's was relegated to the low twenties. Similarly True Love Ways should have been massive in 1960 but was all but ignored.
My father was a massive fan and had all these early hits. In the late fifties he had nearly all Lonnie Donegan's stuff whom he also admired and Buddy's.

In the year above Buddy is about to go massive with It Doesn't Matter Anymore. The Flip Raining In My Heart was also a class tune and should have been held back as it had the potential to be a big follow up hit in its own right.

[kingofskiffle]

RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.

Yes a wonderful song. In fact all of his that chart in my opinion where wonderful. Any of his that people would suggest are overrated or not that good? (Genuine question as interested in the opinions).

[Splodj]

I thought the flip was at least as good - 'Well Alright'. Difficult to say any of his were overrated when they performed so badly - even worse in the USA.

Cousin Brucie had Sonny Curtis on his show recently and asked him if he remembered what he was doing when he heard of Holly's death. He replied he was staying with Jerry Allison and felt he had to go into his bedroom and wake up 'JA' and Peggy Sue to tell them the news.

(Incidentally he said he had never really fought the law, it was just imagined!)

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 24th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 24th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan					2=	1	3	3	5	5630
4	2	To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears					2=	4	4	2	2	5600
1	3	It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty					1	5	1	1	3	5580
7	4	Baby Face - Little Richard					4=	2	5	4	4	5525
NEW	5	I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley					4=	3	2	9	1	5505
11	6	Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey					6=	6	7	8	7	4835
3	7	Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI					6=	8	6	6	8	4730
9	8	Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio					8	10	11	7	6	4535
8	9	Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra					9	7	9	11	9	4470
5	10	Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan					10=	11	12	10	11	4015
6	11	Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como (A)					10=	12	15	5	12	4005
15	12	As I Love You - Shirley Bassey					10=	9	8	14	13	3985
17	13	Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters					13	14	13	15	10	3625
14	14	Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper					15	16	14	16	14	3170
10	15	High Class Baby - Cliff Richard					14	18	10	12	16	3160
12	16	Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele					16	13		13	15	3030
13	17	You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis					17	15	16	19	18	2835
NEW	18	Problems - The Everly Brothers					18	18	17		19	2045
NEW	19	High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis					19	22	19		17	1815
18	20	Cannonball - Duane Eddy						22		20	20	1775
25	21	You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon					20	17	20			1325
19	22	Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson						26		17		935
29	23	The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton						21				750
21	24	Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers						30		18		595
NEW	25	The World Outside - Russ Conway						24				525
16	26	My Ukelele - Max Bygraves						25				450
NEW	27	A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty							18			325
20	28	It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards						27				300
NEW	29	I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June						28				225
NEW	30	The World Outside - The Four Aces						29				150
		Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B)						18
		Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan						30				75
22		Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin
23		More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan
24		Real Love - Ruby Murray
26		Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan
27		A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis
28		I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone
30		Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

[Robbie]

I'm not keen on the number 1. It's an old fashioned sounding song even for the era in which it was released.

[Splodj]

A contested 'straight in at number one' that I missed off my list. My hunch is that RM got this one right.