The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[BobPatience]

And there appears Winchester Cathedral, the 'Best Contemporary (R&R) Recording' of 1967, according to the Recording Academy. Finishing ahead of 'Cherish', 'Monday, Monday', 'Eleanor Rigby', 'Last Train to Clarksville' and last but, definitely, not least 'Good Vibrations'. Not that I think it's a bad song, in fact I find it quite infectious. But I still cannot fathom how a silly Music Hall tune beat masterworks by both Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney. That said, this is far and away not the only instance in which I disagree with the Recording Academy.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! I'm just in from work hence the late post.

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 10th September 1966.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 10th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
3	1	All Or Nothing - The Small Faces					1=	2	1	1	2	18765
1	2	Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					1=	1	2	2	1	18700
2	3	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					3	3	3	3	3	17780
7	4	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					4	5	5	4	5	16610
4	5	They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV					5	6	4	6	4	16545
16	6	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					6	4	8	5	6	15875
5	7	Mama - Dave Berry					7	8	6	8	8	15105
8	8	Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan					8	7	7	12	7	14740
18	9	Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers					10	10	10	9	15	13010
6	10	With A Girl Like You - The Troggs					9	9	14	10	9	12620
13	11	Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann					11	14	9	11	11	12600
12	12	I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas					12	15	13	7	13	11630
9	13	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set					14	17	11	13	14	11045
19	14	Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey					13	12	16	14	10	11035
11	15	Visions - Cliff Richard					15	10	15	19	12	11015
10	16	Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful					17	22	12	16	17	9240
17	17	More Than Love - Ken Dodd					16	16	17	17	16	9175
NEW	18	I'm A Boy - The Who					18	13	23	18	20	7835
14	19	Black Is Black - Los Bravos					19	21	18	22	19	7170
15	20	The More I See You - Chris Montez					20	23	21	20	18	6305
30	21	When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group					21	25	20	15	23	6230
NEW	22	Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders					22	24	19	21	22	6165
27	23	How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars					23	20	26	26	27	4290
23	24	Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations					24	29	25	24	25	3110
22	25	Barefootin' - Robert Parker					26		22	29	24	3045
NEW	26	Little Man - Sonny and Cher					27	18		27		3000
NEW	27	I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding					30	27	24			2550
NEW	28	You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes					29	19		30		2500
21	29	I Want You - Bob Dylan					28		27	25	26	2025
25	30	Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops					25			23	21	1650
		Big Time Operator - Zoot Money and The Big Roll Band						28	28		28	1605
		Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett						26	30			1250
		Step Out Of Line - Twice As Much							29			500
		Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe								28	30	385
		Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band						30				200
		Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra									29	170

[Graham76man]

I did some research into the people thinking they were famous people in mental hospitals connected with the re-incarnation thing where lots of people have had past lives as Cleopatra and Napoleon etc. Obviously if they had past lives (in mental hospitals) these would explain it. But it seems the facts of mental hospitals do not back this up. With nobody (in studies of the patients) claiming to be a famous person. Having said that the bloke who shot John Lennon said he was John Lennon! So maybe it still stands?

There's a video of it on YouTube, but I don't know if it is the original artist or somebody doing a video for it. Sections of it look old enough though to be from the 60's. The quality is not good either.

[Metalweb]

I remember hearing an interview with Jerry Samuels (just googled his real name) in which he claimed he knew several psychiatric patients and they all loved his record!

This must have been in the early 70s when the single was re-issued, made the breakers and almost re-charted.

Wonder where the cliché of asylum inmates thinking they're Napoleon comes from - presumably it pre-dates this.....

[MrTibbs]

Yeah Graham they both worked in The State Hospital at Carstairs in forensic psychiatry, and were appalled at me wanting to buy that record. The lecture I got lol

[Graham76man]

Going mad because a woman's left you OR
Going mad because your dogs left you

Which would have got the radio producers banning the record most?

I would have thought being in love with a dog?? So to put the verse in would would increase the risk of a ban.

[Graham76man]

Wow you had some forward thinking parents there, unless they worked with mental health issues or connected with it.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 3rd September 1966.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 3rd 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					2	2	2	2	2	18415
8	3	All Or Nothing - The Small Faces					3	3	3	3	3	17780
4	4	They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV					4	4	4	4	4	17145
5	5	Mama - Dave Berry					5	6	5	5	6	16225
3	6	With A Girl Like You - The Troggs					6	5	6	7	5	16060
15	7	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					7	7	10	6	8	14505
13	8	Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan					8	9	9	14	9	13470
10	9	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set					11=	10	7	16	12	13315
7	10	Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful					9	13	8	12	10	13035
6	11	Visions - Cliff Richard					10	8	15	13	7	12440
12	12	I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas					11=	15	11	8	11	12200
17	13	Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann					13	14	12	10	13	11780
9	14	Black Is Black - Los Bravos					14	12	13	9	16	11775
11	15	The More I See You - Chris Montez					15	16	14	11	14	10695
20	16	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					16	11	17	15	17	10290
14	17	More Than Love - Ken Dodd					17	18	16	17	15	9110
24	18	Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers					18	17	18	18	18	8455
27	19	Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey					19	19	19	19	19	7620
16	20	Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe					20	22	21	22	23	5880
18	21	I Want You - Bob Dylan					21	25	20	25	20	5485
29	22	Barefootin' - Robert Parker					23	27	24	21	24	4145
25	23	Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations					24	23	27	26	21	3950
28	24	Give Me Your Word - Billy Fury					25	28	22	24	27	3890
23	25	Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops					22	25	28	20	22	3815
19	26	Love Letters - Elvis Presley					26		23	23	28	3055
NEW	27	How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars					27	21		30		2100
NEW	28	Big Time Operator - Zoot Money and The Big Roll Band					30=		25		25	2010
21	29	I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark					28	28	26			1850
NEW	30	When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group					29	24				1400
		Revolver (LP) - The Beatles						20				2200
		Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra					30=		29		26	925
		Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield							30	29	30	535
		Warm And Tender Love - Percy Sledge								27		400
		Blowin' In The Wind - Stevie Wonder								28		300
		Goodbye Bluebird - Wayne Fontana						30				200
		Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders									29	170

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 27th August 1966.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 27th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Yellow Submarine/ Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
3	2	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					2	2	2	2	2	18415
2	3	With A Girl Like You - The Troggs					3	3	3	3	3	17780
10	4	They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV					4	4	5	4	4	16895
5	5	Mama - Dave Berry					5	5	4	6	5	16660
8	6	Visions - Cliff Richard					6	7	7	7	7	15240
7	7	Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful					9	9	6	10	12	14365
18	8	All Or Nothing - The Small Faces					8	6	10	9	9	14320
4	9	Black Is Black - Los Bravos					7	8	12	5	6	14075
11	10	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set					11	10	8	11	11	13650
6	11	The More I See You - Chris Montez					10	11	11	8	8	13255
13	12	I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas					12=	14	9	12	13	12330
14	13	Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan					12=	12	13	13	10	11885
15	14	More Than Love - Ken Dodd					14	15	14	15	14	10495
23	15	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					15	13	16	14	17	10240
9	16	Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe					16	16	15	17	15	9760
21	17	Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann					17	17	18	19	16	8525
16	18	I Want You - Bob Dylan					18	21	17	18	18	7905
12	19	Love Letters - Elvis Presley					19	22	19	16	19	7320
NEW	20	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					20	20	22	25	22	5815
17	21	I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark					21	30	21	20	20	4735
19	22	Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield					22		20	21	21	4600
25	23	Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops					23	23	24	24	26	4475
NEW	24	Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers					24	18		27	23	3680
26	25	Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations					26	25	26	29	24	3245
24	26	Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra					25	28	25	23	27	3240
NEW	27	Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey					29	24	28	22	29	3220
29	28	Give Me Your Word - Billy Fury					28		23	28	30	2385
28	29	Barefootin' - Robert Parker					27	27	30	26	25	2060
22	30	Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames					30		27	30	28	1355
		Revolver (LP) - The Beatles						19				2400
		How Sweet It is - Junior Walker and The All Stars						26				1000
		Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks							29			500
		Blowin' In The Wind - Stevie Wonder						29				400

[Splodj]

I'm being very pedantic here, but the title is: "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa!"

[MrTibbs]

I loved the record at the time as a kid and my parents refused to let me buy it as they said it was still derogative to people with mental health issues so I bought The Small Faces instead. Memories. Memories.

[Metalweb]

Wasn't the line about the dog an afterthought - put in to minimise controversy and hopefully avoid airplay bans?

[Graham76man]

They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha - is actually about a bloke in love with a dog, which has run off! Hence the lines "mutt" and ASPCA - American Society Prevention Cruelty (to) Animals!
The flip side is the same song backwards!

[Graham76man]

The Official Chart date system is messy. With them using publication dates rather than the week of sales. But I believe they were using the same week system as the others. In fact all the papers came out Thursday. Some later carried the Saturday date after Thursday, but still were in the shops Thursday.
So the charts went Monday to Saturday - sent out to the papers Monday - compiled and printed for Thursday.
Then when they changed the release date of records to Friday a few years ago. The Official Chart went back to Thursday for the chart date to give new records a full seven days of sales.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 20th August 1966.

Enjoy !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 20th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
4	1	Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
1	2	With A Girl Like You - The Troggs					2	2	2	2	2	18415
7	3	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					3	3	4	3	3	17530
2	4	Black Is Black - Los Bravos					4	5	3	4	4	17195
6	5	Mama - Dave Berry					5	4	5	7	5	16510
3	6	The More I See You - Chris Montez					6	6	6	5	6	15975
8	7	Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful					7	7	8	6	8	15005
10	8	Visions - Cliff Richard					8	10	7	9	7	14440
5	9	Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe					9	9	9	8	9	14070
26	10	They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha - Napoleon XIV					10	8	11	10	10	13485
14	11	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set					11	11	10	11	12	12865
9	12	Love Letters - Elvis Presley					12	13	13	14	11	11500
16	13	I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas					13=	14	12	12	15	11410
18	14	Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan					13=	12	14	13	14	11295
21	15	More Than Love - Ken Dodd					15	16	15	17	16	9675
17	16	I Want You - Bob Dylan					16	17	16	15	17	9340
11	17	I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark					17	20	18	16	13	8480
NEW	18	All Or Nothing - The Small Faces					18	15	19	18	20	8435
13	19	Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield					19	19	17	19	19	8120
15	20	Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks					21	25	20	20	22	5815
28	21	Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann					20	22	22	25	18	5755
12	22	Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames					22	26	21	21	21	5350
NEW	23	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					23	21	28	22	25	4160
20	24	Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra					24	28	23	23	23	4080
29	25	Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops					25	24	25	26	26	3825
27	26	Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations					26	23	24	29	29	3720
19	27	Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney					27		26	24	24	2545
NEW	28	Barefootin' - Robert Parker					28	29	29	27	27	1640
NEW	29	Give Me Your Word - Billy Fury					29		27	30	28	1355
23	30	I Love How You Love Me - Paul and Barry Ryan					30	27		28		1100
		Revolver (LP) - The Beatles						18				2600
		River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner							30			250
		Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers						30				200
		(Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers									30	85

[MrTibbs]

That's a valid point actually going forward Splodj, thanks. I will keep that in mind should a similar tie appear again. I can't believe that didn't even occur to me at the time.

[Splodj]

I see that the Official Chart uses the Thursday as it's date, presumably because that is when RR appeared.

When a tie does occur, albeit rarely, because of the greater points system, I break this by favouring whichever was highest placed in the MM chart as it had the highest number of store returns.

I realise you are referring to the MM Top 30, but on 6-Aug Ken Dodd at 41 was higher than Percy Sledge which had yet to enter the 50. Delving into the lower reaches of the MM chart when necessary might be worth considering as a valid way of tiebreaking.

[Graham76man]

For that to happen, when literally nearly every shop was selling the most copies, implies that what the shops wanted to put down as a best seller was up to them and that some just stuck the album as the top seller. Maybe as little as 7 shops had the album listed, assuming the NME used ALL 200 stores and they gave 30 points to each store!

[Graham76man]

In at number 4, one of the best and one of the worst Beatles tracks on one double A side single... the AA side being one of their best. The single was released on Friday 5 August 1966, the same day as the parent album 'Revolver' was also released. I'm assuming the album was an instant number 1 in all the newspaper charts? I notice NME charted it at number 25 on thier Singles chart.

The problem with using the Week Ending System is that it makes the chart seem slow when you compare it with the release date. But the start of the week, plus if they had a computer system that could have gathered the data fast, would have seen the 13 August Chart broadcastered on Sunday 7 August. Which meant that it was only two days of sales for the Beatles single and album. You at the time would have not seen these charts in the papers till Thursday after the Sunday and Fluff wouldn't play them till 14 of August. This situation continued till Gallup put in place a system that allowed the charts to be issued the day after the last count had taken place. Putting all the papers printing last Sunday's chart and TOTP using the same Sunday chart. Both of course lost out due to them broadcasting or printing what was already known.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah Eleanor Rigby was without doubt the standout side. Yellow Submarine I always found too banal for my taste.
Interestingly though it was yet another double sided record that NME chose not to split for chart purposes like they still did with other double sided hits from other artists !!!

[Metalweb]

Revolver actually peaks at 18 in next week's NME singles chart.

Agree about Eleanor Rigby - easily my favourite Beatles track.

[Robbie]

In at number 4, one of the best and one of the worst Beatles tracks on one double A side single... the AA side being one of their best. The single was released on Friday 5 August 1966, the same day as the parent album 'Revolver' was also released. I'm assuming the album was an instant number 1 in all the newspaper charts? I notice NME charted it at number 25 on thier Singles chart.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 13th August 1966.

Enjoy !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 13th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	With A Girl Like You - The Troggs					1	1	1	1	1	19050
3	2	Black Is Black - Los Bravos					2	3	2	2	4	18045
4	3	The More I See You - Chris Montez					3	4	3	3	3	17580
NEW	4	Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					4	2	4	4	8	17205
2	5	Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe					5	6	5	5	2	16565
7	6	Mama - Dave Berry					6	5	7	6	6	15825
11	7	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					7	7	6	7	5	15660
13	8	Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful					8	9	8	8	9	14320
5	9	Love Letters - Elvis Presley					9	8	10	9	7	14090
14	10	Visions - Cliff Richard					10	10	9	10	12	13415
9	11	I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark					11	11	13	11	10	12285
6	12	Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames					12	14	12	13	11	11650
8	13	Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield					13	13	11	15	14	11645
16	14	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set					14	12	15	12	15	11060
10	15	Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks					15	15	14	14	13	10680
22	16	I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas					16	16	16	16	17	9440
20	17	I Want You - Bob Dylan					17	18	19	17	16	8275
23	18	Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan					19	19	17	19	24	7695
12	19	Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney					18	21	18	18	19	7570
19	20	Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra					20	20	21	20	20	6735
30	21	More Than Love - Ken Dodd					21	22	20	22	22	6215
15	22	River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner					23	24	22	21	18	5755
21	23	I Love How You Love Me - Paul and Barry Ryan					22	23	25	23	21	4750
17	24	(Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers					24	26	24	24	23	4130
18	25	Bus Stop - The Hollies					25	29	23	25	26	3425
NEW	26	They’re Coming To Take Me Away Ha Ha - Napoleon XIV					26	17		26		3300
28	27	Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations					28	28	27	29	29	1970
NEW	28	Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann					27	30	26		27	1790
26	29	Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops					29	27	29	30		1400
NEW	30	Hanky Panky - Tommy James and The Shondells							28			750
		Revolver (LP) - The Beatles						25				1200
		Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich								27	28	655
		When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge					30				25	510
		Paperback Writer - The Beatles								28	30	385
		Barefootin' - Robert Parker							30			250

[MrTibbs]

To answer your questions guys. Thus far the Ultimate Chart has had around 6 ties usually around the bottom of the chart and one was in the teens. When a tie does occur, albeit rarely, because of the greater points system, I break this by favouring whichever was highest placed in the MM chart as it had the highest number of store returns. I mentioned I would use this method away back in the intro to the thread.

it was only fair to have the very rare joint 30 above as both held joint 26 on NME and didn't place on any other chart including MM to separate them.

[Splodj]

Did MM have a tiebreaker regime? I've always assumed they did, because of the small number of tied places compared with the NME.

At this time PIck Of The Pops had a contest where Fluff gave a chart position and invited you to write in saying what you thought would be at that number next week. The correct answers were put in a hat from which a prize winner was picked. I imagine if that position was affected by tied points they made sure there was a tiebreak.