The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Onwards and Upwards !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 12th November 1966 for your interest.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 12th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops					1	1	2	1	1	18800
11	2	Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys					2	2	1	2	5	18410
2	3	Stop Stop Stop - The Hollies					3	4	3	3	2	17665
10	4	Semi-Detached Suburban Mr James - Manfred Mann					4	3	4	4	3	17430
17	5	Gimme Some Loving - The Spencer Davis Group					5=	4	5	5	8	16455
6	6	High Time - Paul Jones					5=	6	6	6	4	16045
3	7	I Can't Control Myself - The Troggs					7	8	10	7	6	14375
4	8	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					8	7	11	8	7	14140
5	9	No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits					9	10	7	11	9	14070
12	10	If I Were A Carpenter - Bobby Darin					12	12	8	13	13	12880
9	11	Time Drags By - Cliff Richard					11	13	9	12	11	12700
7	12	Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band					10	9	14	9	10	12635
13	13	A Fool Am I - Cilla Black					13	11	12	10	14	12295
8	14	Guantanamera - The Sandpipers					14	14	13	14	12	11215
22	15	Holy Cow - Lee Dorsey					15	15	15	16	16	9975
14	16	Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					16	16	16	17	15	9510
15	17	I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons					17	21	17	15	17	8290
25	18	Help Me Girl - Eric Burdon and The Animals					18	19	18	19	20	7785
20	19	Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations					19	25	21	18	18	6105
24	20	All That I Am - Elvis Presley					21	22	20	23	24	5945
29	21	A Love Like Yours - Ike and Tina Turner					22	18	23	24	26	5725
16	22	All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield					20	26	19	22	23	5580
NEW	23	What Would I Be - Val Doonican					25	17	25			4300
18	24	I'm A Boy - The Who					23	29	22	27	19	4070
NEW	25	Green Green Grass Of Home - Tom Jones					26	20	27	29		3400
19	26	Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones					24		28	21	22	2515
28	27	Painter Man - The Creation					27	27	29	20		2400
26	28	Wrapping Paper - Cream					28		24	25		2350
RE	29	Somewhere My Love - The Mike Sammes Singers					29	23		30	29	1870
NEW	30	Ride On Baby - Chris Farlowe						24	30			1650
		Friday On My Mind - The Easybeats							26			1250
		Just One Smile - Gene Pitney						28		26		1100
		Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon					30				21	850
		You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes								28	25	810
		Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison						30			27	540
		I Love My Dog - Cat Stevens									28	255
		Walk With Me - The Seekers									30	85

[ACA]

I will certainly not make this a big issue, only say that the NME listings in your November 5th list correspond with mine again. Only difference is that I have placed the Spencer Davis Group at 15 and Bobby Darin at 14, probably the order of playing the tracks.
I rarely listened to Luxy in those days as the reception was awful at nights, and as you wrote, Brian, the Luxy list was broadcast at 11pm - that was after midnight European time, and normally I was fast asleep.
The Danish Top 20 was aired from 4-5pm on sundays, and I could switch to the BBC at 5pm (that would be 4pm GMT). But on March 19th 1967 I wrote a disclaimer groumbling about that the UK switched to summertime, and forcing me to switch between the two chart programmes in order to follow both!

I never wrote down the pirates lists although I listened a lot to Radio Caroline( which was clearly received in my part of the country), because I realized the list was too far from the 'official' one. (read BBC).
I will continue to follow your efforts and lists, Brian, and if i notice any significant changes in the lists I have, i'll let you know of course.

[MrTibbs]

Graham I do believe on this occasion Splodj is correct about which chart was broadcast on POTP. When the music papers compiled their chart at the beginning of each week (albeit it was last week's sales), the BBC also did their average chart from this in time for TOTP that week, Wednesday and later Thursday. On the Sunday immediately following this POTP broadcast the chart as the same one which had been on TOTP.

[Splodj]

I've always assumed that the BBC did pay the contributors for their charts. They were still using copyright material, which they were given even during a printers strike. The music papers were keen to recover the considerable expense of compilation, so I don't see why the BBC would have received them for free just because they combined them.

Anyway, papers in the BBC archive will show whether they did or not.

[Graham76man]

As I was only six at the time so I don't know what Alan would have said the NME, but it was a popular paper and if you look at the positions of the NME and BBC many are the same, so he could have said something to those effects.
Some of the Pirate Stations used the NME and Melody Maker charts, but they often switch positions to avoid a copyright claim. Had the BBC used the NME charts there would have been a copyright issue. And the BBC never did that on purpose!
The introduction of Radio One in 1967 would have seen the need to extend Pick of The Pops, so they did.

[Graham76man]

NO you would not. You would have heard the previous week week ending 15 October. This is why on the Real Chart I always used the day after the sales count had finished. People think the week ending charts are the sales from (in the case of the 22 October one) 17 October (no sales Sunday of course) to 22 October. When in fact they are the sales from 10 to 15 October.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 5th November 1966 for your interest.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 5th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops					1	1	1	1	1	19050
4	2	Stop Stop Stop - The Hollies					2	2	2	3	2	18315
2	3	I Can't Control Myself - The Troggs					3	3	3	2	3	17880
3	4	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					4	4	6	5	4	16545
8	5	No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits					7	9	4	8	7	15490
15	6	High Time - Paul Jones					6	8	7	6	6	15225
5	7	Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band					5	5	11	4	5	15110
6	8	Guantanamera - The Sandpipers					8	9	8	7	8	14505
11	9	Time Drags By - Cliff Richard					9	11	5	9	10	14485
26	10	Semi-Detached Suburban Mr James - Manfred Mann					10	7	10	11	11	13750
NEW	11	Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys					11=	6	13	14	15	12560
16	12	If I Were A Carpenter - Bobby Darin					11=	14	9	12	13	12330
17	13	A Fool Am I - Cilla Black					13	13	12	10	14	11895
7	14	Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					14	12	14	15	9	11520
12	15	I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons					15	16	15	13	12	10415
13	16	All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield					16	18	16	18	17	8840
NEW	17	Gimme Some Loving - The Spencer Davis Group					18	14	17	17	26	8725
10	18	I'm A Boy - The Who					17	17	20	19	16	8025
9	19	Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones					19	19	19	21	19	7420
19	20	Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations					20	23	18	20	22	6715
14	21	You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes					21	20	22	25	20	5985
NEW	22	Holy Cow - Lee Dorsey					22	25	21	22	25	5110
22	23	Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon					25	21	25	28	23	4480
23	24	All That I Am - Elvis Presley					23=	28	23	27	18	4105
NEW	25	Help Me Girl - Eric Burdon and The Animals					23=	27	26	16	27	3890
29	26	Wrapping Paper - Cream					28	25	24	24		3650
20	27	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					26	29	27	23	21	3050
NEW	28	Painter Man - The Creation					27	22		26		2300
NEW	29	A Love Like Yours - Ike and Tina Turner					29	24	30			1650
30	30	I Love My Dog - Cat Stevens						30	29		28	955
		Sunny - Georgie Fame							28		30	835
		Walk With Me - The Seekers					30				24	595
		What Would I Be - Val Doonican						30				200
		I Don't Care - Los Bravos								29		200
		Somewhere My Love - The Mike Sammes Singers									29	170
		Two At A Time - Neil Christian								30		100

[MrTibbs]

Hi again Anders. Yip, like I said before and Splodj just confirmed also, Pick Of The Pops did indeed use the BBC's own chart right up to February 1969.
I too can remember like Splodj that Alan normally commented that the BBC compiled their chart from the weekly music newspaper charts NME etc etc. On a Sunday night at 11pm Radio Luxembourg played the Top 20 and in 1966 this would have been the NME chart.
I hope this helps.

[Splodj]

Pick Of The Pops definitely used the BBC chart.

Every now and then Alan Freeman would say something like: "Compiled from the charts provided by the New Musical Express, Melody Maker, Disc and Record Retailer. Not 'alf!"

Is it possible that you heard only part of this message?

[ACA]

Thanks a lot guys for trying to clarify what happened some 55 (!) years ago! I think you, Brian, and Splodj came up with the clue. Of course it was *Pick of the Pops' and Alan Freeman I listened to then! I just couldn't remember the name of the program.
As for Radio Luxembourg the programming was in German until, if I remember well, about 7pm (GMT), when the English programming took over.
But Alan Freeman must have used the NME charts for his show, as these correspond with my notes at least for 22nd and 29th October. And living in a rural area on the West Coast of Denmark there was no chance that I came near a copy of the NME then.
In fact I started a subscripton in late 1968, when I felt my english was good enough to get something out of the articles.

I'm still questioning why Alan Freeman used the NME charts, when BBC TV (Top of the Pops) worked out their own charts.

Just a little info looking forward. On August 27th 1967 I have expanded my notes to a Top 30 and the program was extended by half an hour. (4 to 5,30pm) By 1st October 1967
my notes say that it's now a 2-hour program. (4 to 6pm).

Anders

[Robbie]

^
Yes, Graham is referring to the sales week ending date whereas ACA is referring to the chart week ending date. The latter has historically been dated 7 days after the former.

[Splodj]

I understand what you are saying, Graham, about the 'survey period' week. But to avoid confusion it should be clarified that had you listened to Pick Of The Pops between 4pm and 5pm UK time on Sunday 23rd October 1966 you would indeed have heard the BBC chart that Brian has listed as being week ending 22-Oct.

[Graham76man]

I was waiting for your publication of the 22nd October 1966 with great interest, as that was the date when I started writing down the British Top 20 from radio listening in a notebook(must have been BBC 1). Actually, I have dated it the 23rd October as it must have been broadcast on Sundays. (initially from 5 to 6pm, that may have been 4 to 5pm british time).
I realize that your BBC charts are based on the 'Top of The Pops' charts, but I was surprised to note that the BBC radio charts that I copied, at least at that time, were based on the NME charts!

The dating system does confuse people. But if you were listening to the radio on the 23 October, you would not have heard the week ending 22 October chart. The problem is that it took several days to compile the charts, even when the BMRB took over in 1969. And the week ending chart for the 22 would not be available till Tuesday 25 October. By the 70's Radio One would announce the chart around lunchtime on Tuesday. With the Music Press publishing the 22 chart on Thursday 27 October, with TOTP using the chart on the same day.
What you were listening too on the 23, was the week ending 15 October chart!
That system was in operation till the BBC's rival - The Network Chart started doing a faster version of the chart. This meant that the new records would be in the Network Chart a week earlier than the BBC top 40, though when the next chart came out on Tuesday the new entries had sold more. So a Network Chart entry might be say 30, but the full sales on the BBC chart would have at 15. The papers carrying the Network Chart however would not benefit from the faster chart. As the BBC chart would be out in all the other papers covering the same week, just more of it!
However the BBC put pressure on Gallup to bring out the chart for Sunday and they did. Making the Chart up-to-date.

The system was a nightmare for the Top of The People booking acts. When the chart came out Tuesday they could then see who was climbing and new. But they had only a day and a half to book the acts and do rehearsals to get the show ready for Thursday. Since they couldn't book an act that was falling down the charts, this caused problems. Especially if an act looked set to rise and then didn't! The TOTP dancers spent lots of time doing numbers for records that were then cancelled come Tuesday afternoon! This might explain why some of the routines were a bit naff. They had only a day to come up with something that was hard to dance too anyway!

[MrTibbs]

Hi ACA. Firstly thanks for following my chart threads, the RM mid fifties thread and now here at The Ultimate Averaged Chart, and thanks too for your words of support as it really is appreciated.

So, to the charts. I can actually confirm to you that the BBC's own charts were actually broadcast on Top Of The Pops on TV and also on BBC radio including Pick Of The Pops on Sundays which you refer to until February 1969 when they started to use the newly compiled BMRB chart and discontinued compiling their own.

At no time did the BBC ever use the NME chart, or any other individual music paper chart. The BBC compiled their own chart by averaging out the music paper charts. I think what you might be referring to is Radio Luxembourg because they used the NME chart for the majority of the sixties including their Top 20 show on a Sunday night.

I hope this info clears the confusion up for you, and please continue to enjoy the thread and make any further comments you wish to offer.

[ACA]

Brian, I have been following your efforts with great interest since you started reconstructing the Record Mirror charts from the mid 50's. I have been very busy on other projects, so really haven't found the time to react to your huge work here. It's really admirable!

I was waiting for your publication of the 22nd October 1966 with great interest, as that was the date when I started writing down the British Top 20 from radio listening in a notebook(must have been BBC 1). Actually, I have dated it the 23rd October as it must have been broadcast on Sundays. (initially from 5 to 6pm, that may have been 4 to 5pm british time).
I realize that your BBC charts are based on the 'Top of The Pops' charts, but I was surprised to note that the BBC radio charts that I copied, at least at that time, were based on the NME charts!
So the BBC obviously used their own charts for TV, but the NME charts for radio. It puzzles me a bit as I have seen more contributors to this thread stating that the BBC indeed made their own charts, not to favour any of the magazine charts published at that time.
Any idea why radio used the NME charts? Maybe they were the most topical issue?

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 29th October 1966 for your interest.

I don't know how the BBC get the joint No 2 between The Troggs and Jim Reeves as there is a 4 point difference between them !

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 29th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops					1	1	1	1	1	19050
4	2	I Can't Control Myself - The Troggs					2	3	2	2	2	18215
2	3	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					3	2	5	3	3	17480
9	4	Stop Stop Stop - The Hollies					4	4	3	5	4	17295
3	5	Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band					5	5	4	4	5	16860
6	6	Guantanamera - The Sandpipers					6	6	6	6	7	15790
5	7	Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					7	7	7	7	6	15325
14	8	No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits					8	10	8	9	9	14020
7	9	Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones					9	8	11	8	10	13685
8	10	I'm A Boy - The Who					10	11	9	11	8	13455
18	11	Time Drags By - Cliff Richard					11	9	10	12	13	13080
15	12	I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons					12	12	12	10	14	12095
10	13	All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield					13	14	13	13	11	11400
11	14	You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes					14	13	14	15	12	11065
25	15	High Time - Paul Jones					15	15	15	17	15	9960
27	16	If I Were A Carpenter - Bobby Darin					16	17	17	18	18	8705
28	17	A Fool Am I - Cilla Black					17	16	18	14	23	8630
12	18	Sunny - Georgie Fame					18	22	16	16	19	8070
23	19	Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations					20	20	19	21	21	7050
17	20	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					19	18	22	19	20	6985
16	21	Walk With Me - The Seekers					22	19	23	26	16	6175
19	22	Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon					21	25	21	20	17	5990
22	23	All That I Am - Elvis Presley					23	23	20	23	22	5915
26	24	Born A Woman - Sandy Posey					25	24	24	28	25	3960
13	25	Little Man - Sonny and Cher					24	25	26	24	24	3745
NEW	26	Semi-Detached Suburban Mr James - Manfred Mann					27	21	28	27		3150
21	27	I Don't Care - Los Bravos					26	28	27	22	27	2840
20	28	Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers					28		25	25	26	2525
NEW	29	Wrapping Paper - Cream					29	27	29	29		1500
30	30	I Love My Dog - Cat Stevens					30	29	30		29	820
		Dear Mrs. Applebee - David Garrick									28	255
		Help Me Girl - Eric Burdon and The Animals						30				200
		A Love Like Yours - Ike and Tina Turner						30				200
		I Can't Make It Alone - P J Proby								30		100
		Somewhere My Love - Mike Sammes Singers									30	85

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 22nd October 1966 for your interest.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 22nd 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
15	1	Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops					1	2	1	1	2	18765
1	2	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					2	1	3	2	1	18450
4	3	Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band					4	4	2	4	6	17475
6	4	I Can't Control Myself - the Troggs					3	3	4	3	4	17445
3	5	Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					5	5	8	5	3	15930
7	6	Guantanamera - The Sandpipers					6=	7	5	7	7	15740
5	7	Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones					6=	6	6	6	8	15705
2	8	I'm A Boy - The Who					8	8	7	8	5	15110
21	9	Stop Stop Stop - The Hollies					9	9	10	9	10	13635
9	10	All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield					11	11	9	10	11	13300
8	11	You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes					10	10	11	11	9	13070
11	12	Sunny - Georgie Fame					12	13	12	12	14	11695
10	13	Little Man - Sonny and Cher					13	12	13	14	13	11530
20	14	No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits					14	14	16	15	17	9940
19	15	I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons					16	17	15	13	20	9535
13	16	Walk With Me - The Seekers					15	19	14	19	12	9465
12	17	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					17	15	19	18	15	8860
NEW	18	Time Drags By - Cliff Richard					20	16	18	21	21	8100
18	19	Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon					19	20	17	20	16	8075
14	20	Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers					18	18	20	16	18	7955
17	21	I Don't Care - Los Bravos					21	22	21	17	19	6720
29	22	All That I Am - Elvis Presley					22	23	24	22	26	4675
NEW	23	Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations					23	26	22	23	25	4560
16	24	Sunny - Bobby Hebb					24	29	23	24	22	3865
28	25	High Time - Paul Jones					25	21	25	30	28	3855
23	26	Born A Woman - Sandy Posey					26	27	26	27	24	3045
NEW	27	If I Were A Carpenter - Bobby Darin					27	24	29	25	29	2670
NEW	28	A Fool Am I - Cilla Black					29	25	28	28		2250
24	29	Dear Mrs. Applebee - David Garrick					28	30	27		23	1880
NEW	30	I Love My Dog - Cat Stevens						28	30			850
		Somewhere My Love - The Mike Sammes Singers					30			26	27	840
		Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles								29	30	285

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 15th October 1966 for your interest.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 15th 1966								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	100	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Distant Drums - Jim Reeves					1	1	2	1	1	18800
2	2	I'm A Boy - The Who					3	3	1	5	3	18080
3	3	Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					2	2	4	3	2	17815
7	4	Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band					4	4	3	4	4	17395
5	5	Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones					5	5	5	2	5	16810
17	6	I Can't Control Myself - The Troggs					6	6	8	6	9	15120
11	7	Guantanamera - The Sandpipers					7	8	6	10	7	14990
4	8	You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes					8	7	10	8	6	14475
8	9	All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield					9	10	7	7	10	14385
6	10	Little Man - Sonny and Cher					10	9	9	9	8	14055
14	11	Sunny - Georgie Fame					11	12	11	13	13	12130
9	12	Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison					12	13	12	11	14	11795
10	13	Walk With Me - The Seekers					13	14	13	12	11	11500
13	14	Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers					14	17	14	14	12	10365
NEW	15	Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops					16	10	18	16	19	9970
12	16	Sunny - Bobby Hebb					15	15	16	15	15	9910
18	17	I Don't Care - Los Bravos					17	18	15	18	17	9090
20	18	Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon					18	20	17	20	16	8075
24	19	I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons					19	19	21	17	18	7405
NEW	20	No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits					20	21	20	19	20	6885
NEW	21	Stop Stop Stop - The Hollies					22	16	22	23	27	6390
16	22	Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles					21	27	19	22	26	5125
28	23	Born A Woman - Sandy Posey					23	26	24	21	28	4005
29	24	Dear Mrs. Applebee - David Garrick					24	28	23	28	22	3665
15	25	All Or Nothing - The Small Faces					25		25	24	21	3050
NEW	26	Somewhere My Love - The Mike Sammes Singers					26	23	28	26	30	2935
19	27	Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey					27		26	29	24	2045
NEW	28	High Time - Paul Jones*						22				1800
NEW	29	All That I Am - Elvis Presley					28	25		25		1800
25	30	God Only Knows - The Beach Boys					30		27		25	1510
		*Although points are tied Paul Jones is awarded the higher position as he holds the higher place in the chart with most samples, in this case the NME.
		Time Drags By - Cliff Richard						24		30		1500
		When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group					29		29		23	1180
		Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations						29	30	27		1050
		If I Were A Carpenter - Bobby Darin						30				200
		Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett									29	170

[Graham76man]

Averaging out charts that use the same method of compilation is fine, but since the BMRB chart is actually using genuine sales and the others are not and still using the old method, then you are giving weight to records that might not be selling well. Since I have now started compiling charts for the 1970 period I have been looking at both the BMRB chart and the NME charts at the same time. And you can clearly see the huge difference between BMRB sales chart and NME points chart. With in my opinion the BMRB chart being much more on the ball. Personally I wouldn't put much credence in a chart that had a sales and points methods of compilation. Too me it would be nearly as bad as trying to make streams into record sales, which is what the current Official Chart does (which I nicknamed the Offal Chart as a result).

[kjell]

I’m not against going back to Sep 55, especially not if there are undisclosed RM dealers returns between then and Mar 56. I thought of Mar 56 because that coincided with the start of MM and and it’s only a few weeks prior to NME’s top 30.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah guys here is my plan.

Once I reach February 1969 when the BMRB took over I plan on going back to start from 1960 to 1963. My Ultimate Averaged Charts will differ even more than the BBC charts of that time for the following reasons.

From 21st May 1960 the BBC chart did not include the RM chart because of a change in RM's compilation date meaning it did not arrive in time to be included in the BBC compilation, so only NME, MM, Disc were used until March 1962.
In March 1962 RM stopped compiling their own chart and started using RR so from that date the BBC now also included RR in their compilation.

This effectively means that between May 1960 and March 1962 I will be adding the missing RM charts mentioned above but also from March 1960 will also be adding the RR chart also not used until aforementioned March 1962 so The Ultimate Averaged Chart will be scoring a first here.

On completion of this guys I then intend going back further to at least March 1956 and the first MM chart until 1959, and possibly even further back to September 1955 and the first RM Top 20. I say possibly and this is where you can give me your thoughts guys. Using just NME and RM between September 55 and March 56 is more difficult as it was just the two charts and from what I can gather both were sampling around the same number of shops so the number of tied positions would increase greatly, and how would these then be broken down. Possibly by taking the highest ranking song from the Sheet Music Chart ? Over to you ?

Then when I have completed 55/56 to Feb 69, I thought I might continue averaging from Feb 69 to after the postal strike in March 1971. It was only really after this date that the BMRB chart was widely accepted and until then NME and MM were still considered as important as BMRB. Again your thoughts on this would be most welcome. Again over to you ?

[Splodj]

BBC mistakes were particularly prevalent in the 21-30 section of their chart, but bear in mind that this was only for internal use; POTP and TOTP presented only a Top 20. A 'new entry' was an entry into the 20, regardless of whether it had been in the 21-30 section before.

There has been some discussion here about whether the first BBC Top 20 was on Sunday 30-Mar-58 or the week before. It is clear from the online Light Programme schedule that the programme format changed on 30-Mar-58. So I think there is a similar 'internal use' explanation, that they probably unofficially compiled a chart the week before so that they had the previous week's positions when the Top 20 started.

Also, since Sunday 29-Sep-57 they had been presenting a Top 3 chart so I expect there were unofficial calculations of positions below that down to at least 10.

Before 29-Sep-57 POTP featured only new releases, although the Radio Times is confusing because it talks about a Top 3. But this was where they invited listeners to vote for their favourite new release and the Top 3 voted for were announced the following week.

[Graham76man]

Yes that would be good to do, as apart from errors and too many tied slots, the 60's BBC chart was already available. Next project Brian!

[kjell]

Your parallel setup of competing charts has proved to be at least as interesting as your correction of the Averaged chart. Are you contemplating doing this even before BBC started theirs? I’m thinking of Mar 56 when MM’s chart commenced in addition to NME and RM.

[MrTibbs]

It never ceases to amaze me how often the BBC gets tallies wrong for their chart and doesn't pick up on it. Having all the charts in one place in front of me makes it easy to see this, where they award chart positions yet the points total doesn't justify this in comparison to the record directly above or below. Poor or no double checking took place obviously.